Low Pay for C + E

[keebs26uk]

I know a guy with class 1 works nights out of Felixstowe he gets £650-£700 take home a week home most nights. He also told me he would love to switch to day shifts but he would lose £100-£150 a week and says he just can’t afford it. So that’s around £500-£550 take home on days out of Felixstowe

And I know on nights sometimes he would only work 5-6hours, I know this too because I porked his daughter a few times before he came home

But then he did say it had taken him 20years to get a job like he has. Said he started on some really crap wage for a good 5-8years.
He also said if I hurried up and got my class 1 he could get me a job there but me and his daughter finished on bad terms so I was gutted

Anyway Compared to what I have seen this is a awful wage. I was getting £2000 month take home as a car sprayer

[harry_monk]

waynedl:
Right, so you’d pay, say £90 per day?

So, when someone’s on holiday, they get £90 per day…

See where I’m coming from. £90 per day is fair, £6.20 per hour isn’t

I suppose that’s where their pay structure does fall down a bit, that you wouldn’t earn as much when you were on holiday. And yes, if I paid, say, £90 a day then £90 a day would be holiday pay too.

But as I’ve said, I live in that neck of the woods and know all of the firms with a bad reputation for pay and terms and Coombe Valley Transport aren’t on that radar, they are a firm who are known locally as being much the same as any other.

[waynedl]

Harry Monk:

waynedl:
Right, so you’d pay, say £90 per day?

So, when someone’s on holiday, they get £90 per day…

See where I’m coming from. £90 per day is fair, £6.20 per hour isn’t

I suppose that’s where their pay structure does fall down a bit, that you wouldn’t earn as much when you were on holiday. And yes, if I paid, say, £90 a day then £90 a day would be holiday pay too.

But as I’ve said, I live in that neck of the woods and know all of the firms with a bad reputation for pay and terms and Coombe Valley Transport aren’t on that radar, they are a firm who are known locally as being much the same as any other.

Exactly Harry, but if I was offered work at £90 per day + nights out and expenses (reasonable work, not hard graft you understand), then I’d take it, but I wouldn’t even consider a job at £6.20 per hour, no matter how it dresses up at the end of the week.

I’m from Manchester, so I’ve no idea down there, there’s a firm up here that pays VERY low wages, similar to advertised, and they have no trouble getting or keeping drivers either, and it’s flat bed work too, no idea why, I got offered to get help getting in there when I was sacked from Maritime last year and thanked the lad but declined the offer.

As I’ve said before, my missus works for the council in a gym as a cleaner, piece of ■■■■ job, no responsibilities, knocking on £7 per hour, full sick pay, full pay pension, free gym and swim, reduced cost classes (£1) etc, why would I drive a truck for less?

[davepenn54]

Harry Monk:

newmercman:

Harry Monk:
One day I might employ people. I could now, but I couldn’t pay any more than anyone else does, so I avoid the flak by not doing so.

That statement suggests that you too do not understand the principles of a free market economy

No. As I have said before, I am aiming to get a type of work which is in the doldrums now, but which has in the past paid considerably more than general haulage, and would again if it ever re-appeared.

Because it’s not a type of work where one firm or one driver is the same as the next firm or driver, I could get more than general haulage rates for doing it and could pay more than general haulage rates to anyone I employed.

So what you are now saying Harry Monk Ltd is that if the exhibition work came up and you could take someone on from the local area who maybe had worked for CVT at £6.20 per hr you would double their max daily rate from £74.40 to £148.80 ? I’m sure if in a few months time if things go the way you want and you can put another vehicle on the road you will be wanting to maximise your profit so you will looking to pay the lowest rate possible to the driver you take on and if that daily rate works out at £6.20 per hr. so be it, coz you have to get a return on your investment and the risk you have taken plus you are now a job provider. As I have said before as an employed driver I doubt you would have got out of bed for £6.20 per hr but now you have become a OD and a potential employer it won’t be long before you expect other people to get out of bed to do it for that. As you have said more than once in this thread it seems that what CVT are offering as an hourly rate works out the same as a day rate that you say is about average for the area so once you’ve put a couple of motors on the road you’ll be quids in along with CVT. So good on yer that’s what business is about making a profit and I’m sure you and CVT will always be able to attract employee’s but whether you are able to retain them is the bigger question, a disaffected employee can do untold damage to a young company.

Regards
Dave Penn;

[keebs26uk]

Maybe CVT have Polish drivers ? Just a thought unless I have missed something

[limeyphil]

Rikki-UK:

limeyphil:
what you end up with in your arse pocket is what matters.
gross taxable pay of £250, but a net take home of £600 is a good wage slip.

thats a huge difference just how do you make that up? Less nights out of course - be interested to know how you would bump up the take home that high while avoiding paying taxes - care to enlighten us all? your chance to show your not all mouth… the stage is yours !- go for it Phil

simple really.
i have explained it in great detail in the past.
£250-tax-NI. let’s call it £200 net.
plus subsistence living allowance european £50 x 7= £350.
plus meal allowance £10 x 7= £70
plus expenses £30.
as you will know, there is no limit for meal allowances, and no limit for european drivers subsistence allowance.

there is another option that was largely used in ireland, you would be paid from the uk, and roi. usually about 50/50, however it’s not really worth it nowadays.

[dar1976]

keebs26uk:
Maybe CVT have Polish drivers ? Just a thought unless I have missed something

…or Lithuanians. .

Certainly would explain a few things

[truckulent]

Why do some drivers find it so hard to understand that night out money and meal allowances ARE NOT WAGES!!!

Part of the issue is that drivers are prepared to work for such crap money…because they don’t know any better.

[limeyphil]

Truckulent:
Why do some drivers find it so hard to understand that night out money and meal allowances ARE NOT WAGES!!!

Part of the issue is that drivers are prepared to work for such crap money…because they don’t know any better.

why do some drivers, or is it screwdrivers? find it so hard to understand, that if you give the tax man money, you get less money.

[splitshift]

Fair play to you Lesley whatever the rights or wrongs of CVT’s wage policy you’ve certainly rattled the cage & stirred up a hornets nest

[pete-b]

Rikki-UK:

limeyphil:
what you end up with in your arse pocket is what matters.
gross taxable pay of £250, but a net take home of £600 is a good wage slip.

thats a huge difference just how do you make that up? Less nights out of course - be interested to know how you would bump up the take home that high while avoiding paying taxes - care to enlighten us all? your chance to show your not all mouth… the stage is yours !- go for it Phil

BUMP

[newmercman]

I don’t quite understand the night’s out etc are not wages, you’re being paid by someone for performing a service, part of the job of being a long distance lorry driver is having a night out, so it’s a wage

Personally I used to pay my drivers a set wage each week, no matter what they did, so if I wasn’t competent enough to provide them with a full day’s work, that was my fault, not theirs, I also used to pay them 50quid a week more than most around my way and provide them with a decent motor too, I wanted good drivers and that’s how I got them and kept them

[newmercman]

Analogue tachos Now you can see why

[lesleyanne]

Yes we do employ 1 Polish Driver who is treated with the same respect as any other National. He is happy in his work and is a credit to our Company and the Polish People.

keebs26uk:
Maybe CVT have Polish drivers ? Just a thought unless I have missed something

[lesleyanne]

Thanks Splitshift. I still find it quite amazing why I have come under fire. It does not seem to matter what I say about our drivers.company there appears to be a severe lack of understanding about the job situation in this area. Makes me laugh that some people can be so critical. We do not care that we have been the ■■■■ end of the comments but self respect goes a long way. A wage guaranteed at the end of every week a Vehicle maintained and roadworthy plus Working Time Directive hours means that my Drivers are not breaking the law nor risking their License nor well being.

splitshift:
Fair play to you Lesley whatever the rights or wrongs of CVT’s wage policy you’ve certainly rattled the cage & stirred up a hornets nest

[turbot]

Reminds me of a chat I had with a driver recently. We were talking about our hourly rates, I wouldn’t have got out of bed for his hourly rate and told him so. He said “it doesn’t matter as we get loads of hours”

You can’t educate bacon

[grumpybum]

lesleyanne:
I still find it quite amazing why I have come under fire.

Because you are paying such a derisory amount for Class 1 drivers.

lesleyanne:
Makes me laugh that some people can be so critical.

Glad you’re having fun - it obviously comes as a surprise to you that people will get passionate where their livelihoods are concerned. And although no-one on here may work for you, other companies may see what you get away with paying and decide to do the same, therefore driving rates further down.

lesleyanne:
A wage guaranteed at the end of every week a Vehicle maintained and roadworthy plus Working Time Directive hours means that my Drivers are not breaking the law nor risking their License nor well being.

Ok, so you pay drivers for working for you, provide a roadworthy vehicle and keep to the WTD. These are legal requirements, not perks of the job offered for the welfare of your drivers.

You have asked why people are putting 60+ hours when you state that they work for ‘only’ 60. This is because when you add in the breaks that you do not pay, drivers may have been on duty for 63-65hrs. For example - If you worked in a supermarket or office you would still say you worked 9 - 5 even though you had an hours break.

I do have a certain amount of respect for you for sticking your head above the parapet, but I suspect that you thought you could just make one post boasting about how you stick to the law and how long you’ve been in business and manage to shout us all down…

[bee_chris]

reply to mr penn post. i told my O/H ( car driver) the hourly rate of £6.20 ph for class one driver. She told me that it is s***t and i will not be allowed to work for that rate.
Note that she said about the rate and NOT the company. She has been out with me many times and understands what is involved in our industry and jobs. She has seen the the end result when a truck losses control and crashes ( who ever is to blame) she has also seen the value of goods we carry etc.
I feel the rate is silly to put it mildly, i wont work for that wage as a trucker, however if other people want to then thats up to them, if i here them complain about their hourly rate i would just tell them its their fault for selling their labour soo cheap.

[lesleyanne]

60 Hours per week incorporates the Breaks. I am not having fun just getting a little curious as to why so many people have issues with the rates of pay. I did not come on here expecting to give one post I came on here to defend our Drivers/Company as some people find it amusing to discredit the Drivers and Company. That is the rate of pay that my Drivers earn, they are happy or they will leave. Other Companies cannot change hours or wages without consultation and I am sure there are not many Companies out there that would do that anyway. I do boast about the fact we have been operating for 111 years are there any other Companies that can boast that achievement, all the time with a clean O License and full quota of staff. There are a lot of Companies out there that pay minimum wage but allow their Drivers to work whatever hours they want, these are the Companies that need to be put in front of this forum. As previously stated LGV 1 drivers can have up to 44 tonne of weight behind them. What happens when they have an accident and maybe kill someone. Where are the high paying company bosses then, hiding behind the fact that they operate within WTD when in fact we all know there are a lot of Drivers out there not just the foreign nationals that flout the law every day.
At least we are willing to stand up and be counted with honesty and defend our Drivers Characters right to the end of this topic.

grumpybum:

lesleyanne:
I still find it quite amazing why I have come under fire.

Because you are paying such a derisory amount for Class 1 drivers.

lesleyanne:
Makes me laugh that some people can be so critical.

Glad you’re having fun - it obviously comes as a surprise to you that people will get passionate where their livelihoods are concerned. And although no-one on here may work for you, other companies may see what you get away with paying and decide to do the same, therefore driving rates further down.

lesleyanne:
A wage guaranteed at the end of every week a Vehicle maintained and roadworthy plus Working Time Directive hours means that my Drivers are not breaking the law nor risking their License nor well being.

Ok, so you pay drivers for working for you, provide a roadworthy vehicle and keep to the WTD. These are legal requirements, not perks of the job offered for the welfare of your drivers.

You have asked why people are putting 60+ hours when you state that they work for ‘only’ 60. This is because when you add in the breaks that you do not pay, drivers may have been on duty for 63-65hrs. For example - If you worked in a supermarket or office you would still say you worked 9 - 5 even though you had an hours break.

I do have a certain amount of respect for you for sticking your head above the parapet, but I suspect that you thought you could just make one post boasting about how you stick to the law and how long you’ve been in business and manage to shout us all down…

[newlad]

Can you answer if you think it is fair that a order pickers with no skills can earn nearly double an hour working nights than one of your drivers? Do you think its fair that a forkie who was trained by the company can be paid double an hour on nights for tipping your driver at an RDC?

Or do you think it is fair, that a driver who has INVESTED, up to £3k of their own hard earned in training for their licence, is repaid £6.20ph for driving a truck and cargo worth £100,000’s and a machine that could kill someone if not driven professionally?

I only want an answer