Low Pay for C + E

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
181

Leslie read Rikkis post all the points he has made are valid
Every company uses its own rates I charge my own rate as im se I have today looked at scan job in my area if I were to do it I would be on 110 per day its not worth doing
After looking at your wage structure I have to say I can get a van job employed for 70 a day with out all the hassles the pay you are quoting is an insult I would you have a lot of agency drivers which will be on more per and I would say you have a high driver turn over as well one question why do you have a high driver turn over

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182

We do not have a high turnover of Drivers. The post was advertised because of the death of one of our drivers. We do not employ Agencies. We have a bunch of Casual Drivers too that work when they want to if there is work available. :smiley:

alix776:
Leslie read Rikkis post all the points he has made are valid
Every company uses its own rates I charge my own rate as im se I have today looked at scan job in my area if I were to do it I would be on 110 per day its not worth doing
After looking at your wage structure I have to say I can get a van job employed for 70 a day with out all the hassles the pay you are quoting is an insult I would you have a lot of agency drivers which will be on more per and I would say you have a high driver turn over as well one question why do you have a high driver turn over

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183

waynedl:

daveb0789:
Coach drivers like myself are getting £60 basic day and it’s in the same area. Seems standard for the area.

2 things there.

  1. Coach driving is NOT HGV driving, so the wages have nothing to do with each other
  2. If you’re not sat around for approx 10hrs per day for that, you’re being shafted.

This is a job in General Haulage, not containers, not coach driving taking biddies to the beach etc.

Anyone who would WORK a full day for £60 is a dumb ■■■, sorry pal, I’ve done coach driving for both daily rate and hourly rate, the daily rate work usually means drive an hour or 2, sit around for 7 - 10hrs, get your food bought for you etc, drive back, drop them off as close to their houses as safe to do so and count your tips - anything else is hourly rate work, schools, baths, rail replacement, airport work, suits etc.

Hmmm maybe I’ll ask my boss for a raise. I think I know what the answer will be lol

184

lesleyanne:
I actually do not need to defend our rates of pay. I have tried to keep this light but obviously you are not reading the posts correctly.
I think it is now time to back off and let you stand alone on your pedestal. I do not think it is myself that is losing Credibility and am not prepared to get into a slanging match with you.

davepenn54:
You obviously cannot read, I have not slated your drivers, your company or yourself in any offensive way. I didn’t even know it was Coombe Valley Transport when I started the thread about very, very low rate for Class 1 work. The only person who has been defensive in this thread is you and it is about something that you really can’t defend, Very, Very poor rate for Class 1 work If you cannot answer the questions I have asked you about what you keep alleging I have said you are quickly losing the tiny amount of credibility some commenters to this thread might have been good enough to afford you for contributing in the first place.

Regards
Dave Penn;

Apart from being unable to read you seem to have problems interpreting anything I have written. You are the only person who has got into any kind slanging match. I’m not on any kind of pedestal I just know what is a very poor rate for Class 1 work and what you pay as a basic rate, £6.20 per hr, is in mine and other people’s mind’s, a very poor rate, end of :unamused: :exclamation:

Regards
Dave Penn;

185

Dave, let it go man :smiley: , the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy :unamused: to accept the pish rates then more fool them. :laughing:

186

@pete-b, I know, yer right mate :smiley: It just becomes very annoying when someone keeps making statement’s about things you haven’t said or done and when you ask them to show you where you have been abusive they become even more offensive than they already have been. :laughing: :laughing:

Regards
Dave Penn;

187

I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Its a job with pay at the end of the week. If they were not happy they would not be here. If the pay was so bad we would not have a full quota of Drivers. Most people are grateful for jobs in this area. Its OK saying that they are fools but they have Self Respect and do not scrounge off the state. END OF STORY :confused:

pete-b:
Dave, let it go man :smiley: , the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy :unamused: to accept the pish rates then more fool them. :laughing:

188

Read the post again Dave. I said some people on here are critical of my Drivers. I did not say it was you. Blowing things out of proportion.
It should not bother you too much you are retired and not looking for work so why so glum :smiley:

davepenn54:
@pete-b, I know, yer right mate :smiley: It just becomes very annoying when someone keeps making statement’s about things you haven’t said or done and when you ask them to show you where you have been abusive they become even more offensive than they already have been. :laughing: :laughing:

Regards
Dave Penn;

189

lesleyanne:
I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Its a job with pay at the end of the week. If they were not happy they would not be here. If the pay was so bad we would not have a full quota of Drivers. Most people are grateful for jobs in this area. Its OK saying that they are fools but they have Self Respect and do not scrounge off the state. END OF STORY :confused:

pete-b:
Dave, let it go man :smiley: , the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy :unamused: to accept the pish rates then more fool them. :laughing:

There it is, knew it would be there somewhere.

So, if you don’t want to work 60hrs + nights out for a below average weekly wage, you’re a scrounger.

I’ve got no kids, but if I did, I’d work 16hrs per week in a supermarket, get the rest made up by tax credits and see my kids grow up, spend time with the person I’ve chosen to spend my life with and be financially better off, couldn’t give a ■■■■ if that makes me a scrounger. To me, a scrounger is someone that DOES NOT WORK, and idiot is someone who works 60hrs + nights out for a pittence.

I do tramping, doesn’t bother me, missus understands etc, but that’s because I do it to earn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE in that week, we then have some money at weekend to go and enjoy our time together before work.

I’ve noticed the lack of any replies to anything I post, must be too sensible, can’t be accused of stirring or whatever, but 1 thing I have really been waiting for a reply on:

waynedl:

Harry Monk:
I may be missing something here but at £6.20 an hour for the first eight hours and time-and-a-half after that, I make that £86.80 for a 12 hour day which I would say was pretty much average for that type of work in that area.

If that’s true Harry, then that area pays POOR.

BUT, once again, if you’re on £6.20 for 8hrs, then on holiday what do you get? £250 per week? Also, if deducted breaks, you’re actually doing 12hrs 45 for that £86.80 per ‘12hr day’
When I’m tramping, I want to do as many hours as possible so it’s worth me sleeping in the truck, ie 15hrs / 13hrs +/-, but not for £86.80 (12hrs 45 is only 15 mins short of the 13hr), because that would be a real kick in the balls.
Sometimes the job dictates you can’t max your hours out, ie you’re near your next job, it’s closed, doesn’t open till whatever time the next day etc
1 job I do is garden centres, delivering wicker furniture, they’re not open long hours, so you can’t max your hours out even though you’re tramping, so the company pays me a rate I’m happy with otherwise I wouldn’t do it.

At the end of the day Harry, what you’ve said there, is you’d be happy to work away all week for a top line of £435 +/- + night out money, seriously? We’re talking around £330 + night out money there, so let’s say it’s £25 per night out x 4, £430 quid for 5 x 12hr days + 4 nights out… Are you kidding me?
I know you’re an o/d and I respect that you’ve got to make a profit, but any driver working for that money wants their head seeing to.

190

:confused: Pray tell where did the 60 hours + per week come from. My Drivers do not I repeat NOT do over 60 hours per week. If the money they were earning was so bad they would be on benefits anyway but they are not.

:slight_smile:

waynedl:

lesleyanne:
I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Its a job with pay at the end of the week. If they were not happy they would not be here. If the pay was so bad we would not have a full quota of Drivers. Most people are grateful for jobs in this area. Its OK saying that they are fools but they have Self Respect and do not scrounge off the state. END OF STORY :confused:

pete-b:
Dave, let it go man :smiley: , the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy :unamused: to accept the pish rates then more fool them. :laughing:

There it is, knew it would be there somewhere.

So, if you don’t want to work 60hrs + nights out for a below average weekly wage, you’re a scrounger.

I’ve got no kids, but if I did, I’d work 16hrs per week in a supermarket, get the rest made up by tax credits and see my kids grow up, spend time with the person I’ve chosen to spend my life with and be financially better off, couldn’t give a ■■■■ if that makes me a scrounger. To me, a scrounger is someone that DOES NOT WORK, and idiot is someone who works 60hrs + nights out for a pittence.

I do tramping, doesn’t bother me, missus understands etc, but that’s because I do it to earn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE in that week, we then have some money at weekend to go and enjoy our time together before work.

I’ve noticed the lack of any replies to anything I post, must be too sensible, can’t be accused of stirring or whatever, but 1 thing I have really been waiting for a reply on:

waynedl:

Harry Monk:
I may be missing something here but at £6.20 an hour for the first eight hours and time-and-a-half after that, I make that £86.80 for a 12 hour day which I would say was pretty much average for that type of work in that area.

If that’s true Harry, then that area pays POOR.

BUT, once again, if you’re on £6.20 for 8hrs, then on holiday what do you get? £250 per week? Also, if deducted breaks, you’re actually doing 12hrs 45 for that £86.80 per ‘12hr day’
When I’m tramping, I want to do as many hours as possible so it’s worth me sleeping in the truck, ie 15hrs / 13hrs +/-, but not for £86.80 (12hrs 45 is only 15 mins short of the 13hr), because that would be a real kick in the balls.
Sometimes the job dictates you can’t max your hours out, ie you’re near your next job, it’s closed, doesn’t open till whatever time the next day etc
1 job I do is garden centres, delivering wicker furniture, they’re not open long hours, so you can’t max your hours out even though you’re tramping, so the company pays me a rate I’m happy with otherwise I wouldn’t do it.

At the end of the day Harry, what you’ve said there, is you’d be happy to work away all week for a top line of £435 +/- + night out money, seriously? We’re talking around £330 + night out money there, so let’s say it’s £25 per night out x 4, £430 quid for 5 x 12hr days + 4 nights out… Are you kidding me?
I know you’re an o/d and I respect that you’ve got to make a profit, but any driver working for that money wants their head seeing to.

191

lesleyanne:
Read the post again Dave. I said some people on here are critical of my Drivers. I did not say it was you. Blowing things out of proportion.
It should not bother you too much you are retired and not looking for work so why so glum :smiley:

davepenn54:
@pete-b, I know, yer right mate :smiley: It just becomes very annoying when someone keeps making statement’s about things you haven’t said or done and when you ask them to show you where you have been abusive they become even more offensive than they already have been. :laughing: :laughing:

Regards
Dave Penn;

@lesleyanne. No you have made a least three post’s where you have named me as slating your drivers, your company and being very offensive to you personally but when I have asked to point out were I have done this you have constantly come back with some flim flam and tried to deflect it onto how good your company is, how you socialise together and really it’s us on this thread who have got it wrong and that £6.20 per hr. is actually a fair rate :unamused:

All your response’s have shown you find it difficult to put a reasoned argument together to justify paying £6.20 per hr; for Class 1 work and for me that speaks volumes.

Also don’t believe everything you read in ‘profiles’ that was 4yrs ago and lot of things have changed since then and I’ve been unretired for at least 3yrs.

Regards
Dave Penn;

192

lesleyanne:
:? Pray tell where did the 60 hours + per week come from. My Drivers do not I repeat NOT do over 60 hours per week. If the money they were earning was so bad they would be on benefits anyway but they are not.

:slight_smile:

waynedl:

lesleyanne:
I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Its a job with pay at the end of the week. If they were not happy they would not be here. If the pay was so bad we would not have a full quota of Drivers. Most people are grateful for jobs in this area. Its OK saying that they are fools but they have Self Respect and do not scrounge off the state. END OF STORY :confused:

pete-b:
Dave, let it go man :smiley: , the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy :unamused: to accept the pish rates then more fool them. :laughing:

There it is, knew it would be there somewhere.

So, if you don’t want to work 60hrs + nights out for a below average weekly wage, you’re a scrounger.

I’ve got no kids, but if I did, I’d work 16hrs per week in a supermarket, get the rest made up by tax credits and see my kids grow up, spend time with the person I’ve chosen to spend my life with and be financially better off, couldn’t give a ■■■■ if that makes me a scrounger. To me, a scrounger is someone that DOES NOT WORK, and idiot is someone who works 60hrs + nights out for a pittence.

I do tramping, doesn’t bother me, missus understands etc, but that’s because I do it to earn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE in that week, we then have some money at weekend to go and enjoy our time together before work.

I’ve noticed the lack of any replies to anything I post, must be too sensible, can’t be accused of stirring or whatever, but 1 thing I have really been waiting for a reply on:

waynedl:

Harry Monk:
I may be missing something here but at £6.20 an hour for the first eight hours and time-and-a-half after that, I make that £86.80 for a 12 hour day which I would say was pretty much average for that type of work in that area.

If that’s true Harry, then that area pays POOR.

BUT, once again, if you’re on £6.20 for 8hrs, then on holiday what do you get? £250 per week? Also, if deducted breaks, you’re actually doing 12hrs 45 for that £86.80 per ‘12hr day’
When I’m tramping, I want to do as many hours as possible so it’s worth me sleeping in the truck, ie 15hrs / 13hrs +/-, but not for £86.80 (12hrs 45 is only 15 mins short of the 13hr), because that would be a real kick in the balls.
Sometimes the job dictates you can’t max your hours out, ie you’re near your next job, it’s closed, doesn’t open till whatever time the next day etc
1 job I do is garden centres, delivering wicker furniture, they’re not open long hours, so you can’t max your hours out even though you’re tramping, so the company pays me a rate I’m happy with otherwise I wouldn’t do it.

At the end of the day Harry, what you’ve said there, is you’d be happy to work away all week for a top line of £435 +/- + night out money, seriously? We’re talking around £330 + night out money there, so let’s say it’s £25 per night out x 4, £430 quid for 5 x 12hr days + 4 nights out… Are you kidding me?
I know you’re an o/d and I respect that you’ve got to make a profit, but any driver working for that money wants their head seeing to.

lesleyanne:
From Lesley Glover. I have just found this site and the comments that some have made. First some facts about Coombe Valley Transport.

We have been operating since 1901 making this 111 years as a Transport Company (I have put the total number of years in as obviously some cannot count). Not may Companies out there that can boast that achievement. We have a fantastic Team of Drivers that were all aware of the pay structure before applying for the post (simply because they were intelligent enough to ask the questions). Yes we may have old Trucks but they are all legititmately on the road and maintained to high standards in line with the Vosa Schedules. And We OWN THEM. No leasing here. They are all Taxed and Insured. Yes they do have Analogue Tachographs showing that our Criteria of Drivers are intelligent enough to be able to read Tachos. We work to the Working Time Directive meaning our drivers only work 60 hours per week and get paid for those hours excluding the legal breaks that are required. Our Licenses are checked every 3 months as required by the Insurance Companies. Most of our Drivers have been here over 5 years because we work as a Team Gross weekly wages with benefits average £590.00. We also pay for our Drivers CPC Training. In the past we have paid for Drivers to gain their Class 1 License, they have then promptly left the Company for the glorified wages of an Agency. Within months begging to come back to us as they have been given a few weeks work then had no work at all.
Wildfire: It is people like you that give Class 1 Drivers a bad reputation by ■■■■■■■■ on forums like this. You are a timewaster and should really concentrate on the job you are doing rather than bad mouthing Companies that you know nothing about. My response to your email was to the point you never made further contact nor asked about pay structure.
I cannot understand the mentality of some of the comments on here. Maybe you are wannabee Class 1 Drivers or even breach the law with Driving and breaks.
If you are constructive with your criticism then this is totally acceptable but to bad mouth a long established Company like ours without being intelligent enough to ask questions then I will respond.

Regards

Lesley Glover :unamused:

193

lesleyanne:
I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Its a job with pay at the end of the week. If they were not happy they would not be here. If the pay was so bad we would not have a full quota of Drivers. Most people are grateful for jobs in this area. Its OK saying that they are fools but they have Self Respect and do not scrounge off the state. END OF STORY :confused:

pete-b:
Dave, let it go man :smiley: , the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy :unamused: to accept the pish rates then more fool them. :laughing:

1, I’m not bothered one way or the other :laughing:
2, I’m sure they are grateful to have jobs :unamused:
3, I didn’t say they were fools :confused:
4, PUTTING IT IN BOLD TEXT WONT MAKE THE RATE ANY LESS PISH

194

davepenn54:

lesleyanne:
I actually do not need to defend our rates of pay. I have tried to keep this light but obviously you are not reading the posts correctly.
I think it is now time to back off and let you stand alone on your pedestal. I do not think it is myself that is losing Credibility and am not prepared to get into a slanging match with you.

davepenn54:
You obviously cannot read, I have not slated your drivers, your company or yourself in any offensive way. I didn’t even know it was Coombe Valley Transport when I started the thread about very, very low rate for Class 1 work. The only person who has been defensive in this thread is you and it is about something that you really can’t defend, Very, Very poor rate for Class 1 work If you cannot answer the questions I have asked you about what you keep alleging I have said you are quickly losing the tiny amount of credibility some commenters to this thread might have been good enough to afford you for contributing in the first place.

Regards
Dave Penn;

Apart from being unable to read you seem to have problems interpreting anything I have written. You are the only person who has got into any kind slanging match. I’m not on any kind of pedestal I just know what is a very poor rate for Class 1 work and what you pay as a basic rate, £6.20 per hr, is in mine and other people’s mind’s, a very poor rate, end of :unamused: :exclamation:

Regards
Dave Penn;

I have been reading this thread and at first it made me feel slightly uneasy about the 3k I would have shelled out (of my own pocket) by the time I have finished my C, C+E and DCPC (I have passed C and DCPC so far).

I am currently employed on Nights by a large supermarket chain in Nottingham, (not as big as ASDA or Tesco) order pickers on DAYS are paid £8.53 an hour working 6am - 2pm on a any 5 over 7 basis, overtime is usually available and is paid at 1.5x per hour.
However me working Nights I get 33% on top for unsociable hours, I’m a loader but I’m paid the same rate as a picker. My hourly rate is £11.34 an hour I get overtime after 39hrs, I don’t expect to find a driving job on this sort of money an hour, I would expect to get £9-10 an hour with more hours available than I’m on now paid POA 1.5x after 39hrs and night out money and parking paid, surly this isn’t too much to ask■■? Especially for someone who has INVESTED over £3k in training and a further £350 every 5 years to keep it upto date, not only that you are driving a killing machine that can weigh upto 44tonnes and to top it all off you could be carrying a load worth millions for £6.20 an hour!

You can dress it up all you like, you wouldn’t get me doing it for £6.20 an hour I have seen the state of the people who do picking at our place some of them would struggle to tie their own laces and they are on over £2 an hour more than what your offering.

It’s a joke of a wage, showing no respect for the skill the driver has (not everyone has the skill or potential to drive a LGV you know!) it doesn’t reflect the investment they have made to gain their licence (we didn’t all get it free from DWP) and lastly it doesn’t reflect the value or danger of driving such a vehicle.

The average wage in the industry doesn’t reflect the investment or value but the value Coombes Valley Transport put on it is taking the pi$$!

195

To put it in a nutshell as we have all been banging our heads against a brick wall with Leslie as she will not concede that it is wrong to pay a C+E driver £6.20 per hour when it has cost £2,000/£3,000 to get that licence, she says in not so many words that they should be gratefull to have a job, she states they have a “waiting List” yet have to advertise in the job centre for drivers, 10 people a week ring for jobs, perhaps so, but how many fall about laughing when they find out the wage, it’s a crap job, with crap trucks, crap wages, and if they knock breaks of these pathetic wages, a crap boss, it might be Hobsons choice for a few of these drivers, but if somebody else starts up within spitting distance, I would imagine you would be trampled in the rush out of the gate.

196

@waynedl, don’t take to heart mate if no-one has responded to your post’s, it happens to me all the time, so for you I think you have put some great point’s over in this thread and Lesley Glover has been unable to answer you just as she has made out we are abusive and offensive to her, the company and the drivers of said company :unamused: But as pete-b has said ‘the rate is pish, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, if those poor sods are happy to accept the pish rates then more fool them.’

Regards
Dave Penn;

197

lets stop the knocking- from all sides -it doesnt reflect well on any one-

My simple question is-
(a) Does Combe Valley believe that a hourly rate of £6.20 is a adequate amount to pay a class 1 driver?
(b) Do class 1 drivers believe £6.20 per hour is adequate renumeration for their investment and the responsibilities they have

I think we will have two completly seperate answers and never will they meet.

I will go on record as saying that I find the rate per hour obscene and no matter how good the atmosphere is at the company I would not work for someone who devalued my experience and personal investment to that level.

If there are folks happy to work for that- then good luck to them, thats their business not mine- I choose not too for the reasons stated above

198

Rikki-UK:
lets stop the knocking- from all sides -it doesnt reflect well on any one-

My simple question is-
(a) Does Combe Valley believe that a hourly rate of £6.20 is a adequate amount to pay a class 1 driver?
(b) Do class 1 drivers believe £6.20 per hour is adequate renumeration for their investment and the responsibilities they have

I think we will have two completly seperate answers and never will they meet.

I will go on record as saying that I find the rate per hour obscene and no matter how good the atmosphere is at the company I would not work for someone who devalued my experience and personal investment to that level.

If there are folks happy to work for that- then good luck to them, thats their business not mine- I choose not too for the reasons stated above

The fact they’re fully staffed would Surely mean It’s yes to both

199

Rikki-UK:
(b) Do class 1 drivers believe £6.20 per hour is adequate renumeration for their investment and the responsibilities they have

I think we will have two completly seperate answers and never will they meet.

I will go on record as saying that I find the rate per hour obscene and no matter how good the atmosphere is at the company I would not work for someone who devalued my experience and personal investment to that level.

I have no vested interest here, I’ve never spoken to any of CVTs management, or even, as far as I’m aware, their drivers, the closest link I can claim is that when I was a banger racer I used to drive past their locked yard on a Sunday towing a brightly painted and bashed up Mk IV Cortina to Coombe Valley Raceway, which is “Top Tenuous” to say the least, but CVT are a local firm and their reputation locally is “no better or worse than anyone else”.

As to the hourly pay rate, £6.20 is low, but overtime is paid after eight hours, not ten or twelve or not at all. As I pointed out earlier, 12 hours on the pay rate mentioned comes to £86.80, a fifteen hour day with 13.5 hours being paid comes to £101.45. I would guess that a typical tramping job at those rates, running in on Saturday morning once or twice a month,with nights out would give a total take home pay of around £480, same as everybody else in the area pays.

Somebody said they know of two drivers in the area who earn around £170 for a 12 hour day on tramping work: I just don’t know how this would be possible.

As I’ve said, I could put two more trucks on the road tomorrow and employ two local people but I could only pay a similar rate as everybody else pays so why would I put up with the flak I would get on here for doing that?

It’s far less grief just to let those two blokes carry on sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle, reminiscing about how much they were earning ten years ago, and wondering how much longer it was going to be before their house was repossessed. :wink:

200

Lesley, again a very cogent defence of your position!very easy to blame the “Job Centre” but my main objection is how can the haulage industry recruit youngsters who wish to be drivers if these sort of hourly pay rates are on offer? (the old I’d be better of stacking shelves in Tesco’s argument comes to mind).Have been tipping in Ridham Dock today & at 63 one of the younger drivers :slight_smile: our industry cannot bury it’s head in the sand &think there are plenty of East Europeans out there !!.Very sorry to learn the loss of a valued staff member.Saw one of your units on the M2 yesterday, very tidy :smiley: