In the '60s and '70s (and later too, of course) you could opt for constant-mesh gearboxes from specialist manufacturers like Fuller/Eaton, Spicer, David Brown and ZF.
Reading around these threads on the subject of the ZF constant-mesh option, most drivers seem to agree that they were less forgiving than the Fullers in that they required more precise timing from the driver, but that they were, in the main, good boxes to use - especially at lower weights (like 32 tonnes for example).
I used to drive units with the 12-speed version (which was a 6-speed 'box with splitters), and as the gearbox was installed on its side, the shift pattern was back-to-front (ie right-to-left). But I only used them in Mercedes NG 1626s and I entirely agree that they were less forgiving than Fullers but were otherwise fine. In the early '80s I was hopping in and out of Merc 1626s and 1625s, which was a slightly later model and had the 16-speed synchromesh Eco-split 'box. Funnily enough, I preferred the old constant-mesh 'box because the synchro-boxes had such maddeningly stiff gear shifts, especially in new lorries.
It appears that DAF offered both 9-speed and 12-speed versions; and Atkinson offered the 6-speed in its Krupp-cabbed LHD Continental. Is there any more evidence out there? Or opinions?
Here are some pictures to get you started. The first one is of one of the 1626s I drove. Robert
Here is evidence of DAF’s use of the 9-speed constant-mesh 'box in a 2300 (first picture); and the 12-speed constant-mesh in a 2800 (2nd picture). Robert
Atkinson used the 6-speed version in its Krupp cabbed LHD unit for Europe. Coupled to a 220 bhp Rolls Royce, this particular unit used to ply between London and Malta. I wonder if 6 were enough on those hills in France. Robert
Atkins of Derby (what a marvellous livery!) operated an impressive array of wagons with tilts, including this LHD 1626 with a top-spec Superliner cab. This would have had a ZF 12-speed in it, but does anyone know whether it was the standard constant-mesh version or the optional syncho version (which could be had at a price). Robert
Woops! Nearly forgot the old DAF 2600 ‘Juke-box’! That’s what started me off thinking about the ZFs in the first place. Herewith, suitable piccies. Robert
I drove two 2300 Dafs, one had the 12spd splitter, the other the 8spd (9) range change, they were like chalk and cheese, the 12spd was dreadful, it wouldn’t pull a greasy stick out of a dog’s arse, the range change one would keep up with F10s and 111s.
I don’t think it was all down to the gearbox, but the range change was much more forgiving than the splitter, in that if you missed a gear it seemed that the only way to recover was to stop and start all over again. This was made more difficult in the one I had which used to get stuck in 5th, I had to use both hands to yank it out of gear!
I had a 12spd in a 2800 too and it was a nasty thing in that as well. My only other experience of it was in a 2032 Merc NG and as it was my first left ■■■■■■, I had other things to worry about than the gearbox, the cones in the roadworks on the M2 took a few casualties on my first trip to Dover
[zb]
anorak:
That’s a 304 DAF. The spec sheet, which I believe has been posted on here, says that it had a 9 speed 'box. That would make it a Fuller, I believe.
Hey Anorak, don’t a bell so no fuller, the DKB had first for a few months the ZF 9 speed, but soon got the RTO13 Daf was more clever as Scania.
After changing with a Fuller they were flyers 0.87 overdrive and a 4.5 driveaxle, standard for the Fuller was 4.9.
That box was in de MB V10 and held on so you can think what a power the Merc had. but fell out the Daf’s and Fiat’s V8 330hp.
Here the NG’s with 12 speeders had al syncro’s, Daf was an option until the DKTD came.
robert1952:
Atkinson used the 6-speed version in its Krupp cabbed LHD unit for Europe. Coupled to a 220 bhp Rolls Royce, this particular unit used to ply between London and Malta. I wonder if 6 were enough on those hills in France. Robert
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Hey Robert, in those days they did it with 150 hp and only 5 or 6 without two speed too.
10 kilometers or so in first you can think, if you were behind with a Scania 75 Super 10 (9 different) speeds
But happy with a 55 scanny 120hp 5 speed and 20 ton in the Ardennes, but top speed was only 75kph.
They were it worthly to call them, 500.000km without problems, only new piston rings and up for an other 200.000km.
The days where Scania made its name King of the Road.
Now again to the ZF’s.
Hey, MAN push and pull changing system in the '60’s 5/6/12 speeds ZF, easy to drive if you know how.
Very hated by many drivers, did too until I could drive one last year as a vintage.
[zb]
anorak:
That’s a 304 DAF. The spec sheet, which I believe has been posted on here, says that it had a 9 speed 'box. That would make it a Fuller, I believe.
Probably correct, but that doesn’t look like a Fuller gear-knob and DAF did use ZF constant-mesh 9-speeders in their 2300s… Robert
tiptop495:
Hey, MAN push and pull changing system in the '60’s 5/6/12 speeds ZF, easy to drive if you know how.
Very hated by many drivers, did too until I could drive one last year as a vintage.
Eric,
Good grief! I’ve never heard of that pattern before! Robert
[zb]
anorak:
That’s a 304 DAF. The spec sheet, which I believe has been posted on here, says that it had a 9 speed 'box. That would make it a Fuller, I believe.
Probably correct, but that doesn’t look like a Fuller gear-knob and DAF did use ZF constant-mesh 9-speeders in their 2300s… Robert
This had a 6 speed ZF gear box and the spring was so weak you were hardly able to tell there was a spring but fine once you were used to it , it was a lovely wagon to drive as the gears were very close together and took very little effort just a bit of skill it would do 46mph in top and then about 31 in fifth and 20 in fourth but it would really pull ( 250 ■■■■■■■ ) and it would leave the Venturerer’s with their 240 patricroft smoker and 10 speed fuller a tiny speck in your mirror going over woodhead
sammyopisite:
This had a 6 speed ZF gear box and the spring was so weak you were hardly able to tell there was a spring but fine once you were used to it , it was a lovely wagon to drive as the gears were very close together and took very little effort just a bit of skill it would do 46mph in top and then about 31 in fifth and 20 in fourth but it would really pull ( 250 ■■■■■■■ ) and it would leave the Venturerer’s with their 240 patricroft smoker and 10 speed fuller a tiny speck in your mirror going over woodhead
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cheers Johnnie
Unusual piece of kit and an interesting addition to the thread! Robert
We had an Atkinson Sherpa with a 220 ■■■■■■■ and ZF six speeder which gave far less trouble than its sister vehicle fitted with a David Brown ‘split a casing regularly’ cog box!
sammyopisite:
This had a 6 speed ZF gear box and the spring was so weak you were hardly able to tell there was a spring but fine once you were used to it , it was a lovely wagon to drive as the gears were very close together and took very little effort just a bit of skill it would do 46mph in top and then about 31 in fifth and 20 in fourth but it would really pull ( 250 ■■■■■■■ ) and it would leave the Venturerer’s with their 240 patricroft smoker and 10 speed fuller a tiny speck in your mirror going over woodhead
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cheers Johnnie
Unusual piece of kit and an interesting addition to the thread! Robert
Robert, they replaced Scammell Highwayman so can only imagine how upset we were to have our roughly 10 year old Scammells taken off of us and told to drive a new one of these
All the viewline artics were 6x4 and had a 6 speed ZF while the viewline ballast box tractors were 4x2 and fitted with a 5 speed plus splitter epicyclic box like what the fitted into the ergo beaver, the cab rocked and rolled a lot on the ballast tractor but was not too bad on the units possibly because of the 6x4 being a longer wheel base
cheers Johnnie
P S I think these were the last batch of viewlines on a “J” plate as the next batch were were venturerers with the borderer type cab on a “K” plate and a smoker but Chris 240 will know
[zb]
anorak:
That’s a 304 DAF. The spec sheet, which I believe has been posted on here, says that it had a 9 speed 'box. That would make it a Fuller, I believe.
Probably correct, but that doesn’t look like a Fuller gear-knob and DAF did use ZF constant-mesh 9-speeders in their 2300s… Robert
hey Robert, the pic if of the launch brochure, and indeed first a ZF 9sp as the knob shows. And a 304 badge,which caused a problem with Peugeot’s 304 than so Daf removed it, on some first brochures you can see it still.
