robert1952:
tiptop495:
Hey, MAN push and pull changing system in the '60’s 5/6/12 speeds ZF, easy to drive if you know how.
Very hated by many drivers, did too until I could drive one last year as a vintage.Eric,
Good grief! I’ve never heard of that pattern before! Robert
Hey, maybe shows a bit better ■■?
Eric,
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even on the official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even on the official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?
Compared to the ( very ) heavy slow shifting synchro boxes the 6 light,fast,gear selections with the rest all just engaged by the pre selected splitter function that question seems easy enough to answer assuming anyone has driven both types and could match engine and road speeds and time a shift properly.The fact that the ZF just needed a bit more concentration in that regard compared to a Fuller was still worth the difference over the synchro options.Just like most other constant mesh types.
While I’m no fan of the ZF synchro boxes and their ponderous, notchy gear changes, I would take one over the constant mesh offerings from ZF in a heartbeat.
However as my first artic (a 2800) had the nasty ZF 12spd, I have to thank it for teaching me how to change gear properly with a constant mesh box, because everything else was child’s play in comparison.
I honestly thought my left hand was going to fall off after the first few weeks of grinding and grating that my inexperienced stick stirring produced.
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even on the official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?
That explains why I can only remember two out of the ten I drove definitely having constant-mesh. Both had the back-to-front gearbox. But as Carryfast rightly says, once you got the hang of the timing for gear-shifts and once you got used to the gearbox being back-to-front the actual shifts were much nicer than fighting those clumsy synchro cones! Robert 
Hi, All,
I’ve been following this ZF thread with interest and felt that as an ex driver ( are you ever really an “EX” driver ) I would add my experiences.
The first truck I drove with a ZF box was a D reg (1966) Atkinson with a 220 ■■■■■■■■ The thing I rermember about that truck was it’s habit of shearing flywheel housing studs,
was this a common fault or were we just unlucky?
Some years later i drove an ERF 8 wheeler with a 220 ■■■■■■■ but it had a DB 6speed at the back.It never seemed as good a match as the set up in the Atkinson with the ZF box.
The company I was with bought a batch of S/A 300’s with the International engine and ZF 6speed boxes, they were well matched and I don’t recall any problems with the driveline. My first “foriegn” truck was a DAF 2500 with a ZF 12 speed , 6 plus a splitter, didn’t have that truck long but I was impressed with it, especially after years of British motor’s.
My next truck was a 2033 Merc with a 16 speed “slap across” box, never had any problems with the box and it was a good truck , very comfortable and easy to drive with a forgiving engine.
Back to British trucks , I had an ERF EC with a 16 speed ZF , horrible ,hard work ,especially after a few years with the excellent TwinSplitter. Not one of ERF’s best fitments.
I had a spell with Calor Gas who at the time were running some TGA MAN’s with the Comfort shift box which I am pretty certain was a ZF 12 speed, I really liked that set up ,it was the next best thing to an auto or a Fuller and once used to it made life a lot easier.
Cheers Bassman
Constant mesh 6 speed ZF in this one , ■■■■■■■ 205 , ex atkins . i still have the specially curved spanner for replacing the gearbox mounting bolts that sheared with distressing regularity. oh and there was the exciting time that the starter motor detached itself from the engine, only spotted spotted when i saw the spacer ring heading toward the central reservation of the M6 near corley.
having worked for Ferrymasters where we had a DAF 2200 with a reverse gate 6 speed /splitter ZF , when we picked the Atki, up i tried to drive as per the DAF ,i,e reverse gate, hmm red face all round really.
But she was was my 1st motor and i loved her (until i got my hands on the F86)
Bassman:
Hi, All,I’ve been following this ZF thread with interest and felt that as an ex driver ( are you ever really an “EX” driver ) I would add my experiences.
The first truck I drove with a ZF box was a D reg (1966) Atkinson with a 220 ■■■■■■■■ The thing I rermember about that truck was it’s habit of shearing flywheel housing studs,
was this a common fault or were we just unlucky?
Some years later i drove an ERF 8 wheeler with a 220 ■■■■■■■ but it had a DB 6speed at the back.It never seemed as good a match as the set up in the Atkinson with the ZF box.
The company I was with bought a batch of S/A 300’s with the International engine and ZF 6speed boxes, they were well matched and I don’t recall any problems with the driveline. My first “foriegn” truck was a DAF 2500 with a ZF 12 speed , 6 plus a splitter, didn’t have that truck long but I was impressed with it, especially after years of British motor’s.
My next truck was a 2033 Merc with a 16 speed “slap across” box, never had any problems with the box and it was a good truck , very comfortable and easy to drive with a forgiving engine.
Back to British trucks , I had an ERF EC with a 16 speed ZF , horrible ,hard work ,especially after a few years with the excellent TwinSplitter. Not one of ERF’s best fitments.I had a spell with Calor Gas who at the time were running some TGA MAN’s with the Comfort shift box which I am pretty certain was a ZF 12 speed, I really liked that set up ,it was the next best thing to an auto or a Fuller and once used to it made life a lot easier.
Cheers Bassman
ERF’s ECT had the same Comfort shift arrangement and although I got slick at using them, I didn’t much like them and I hated the ‘prompt’ everytime you chose not to use the button!! Robert
Hi
If I had had the Comfort shift on the EC I would have been a lot happier.
Bassman
tiptop495:
robert1952:
tiptop495:
Hey, MAN push and pull changing system in the '60’s 5/6/12 speeds ZF, easy to drive if you know how.
Very hated by many drivers, did too until I could drive one last year as a vintage.Eric,
Good grief! I’ve never heard of that pattern before! Robert
Hey, maybe shows a bit better ■■?
Eric,
That gear-shift looks like a real horror, even by my standards! Robert 
tonyj105:
Constant mesh 6 speed ZF in this one , ■■■■■■■ 205 , ex atkins . i still have the specially curved spanner for replacing the gearbox mounting bolts that sheared with distressing regularity. oh and there was the exciting time that the starter motor detached itself from the engine, only spotted spotted when i saw the spacer ring heading toward the central reservation of the M6 near corley.
having worked for Ferrymasters where we had a DAF 2200 with a reverse gate 6 speed /splitter ZF , when we picked the Atki, up i tried to drive as per the DAF ,i,e reverse gate, hmm red face all round really.
But she was was my 1st motor and i loved her (until i got my hands on the F86)
This is quite revealing information, as I didn’t know that the Borderer could have ZF transmission, other than that I knew the Krupp-cabbed LHD Atki had them. Nice bit of transport history. Robert 
windrush:
We had an Atkinson Sherpa with a 220 ■■■■■■■ and ZF six speeder which gave far less trouble than its sister vehicle fitted with a David Brown ‘split a casing regularly’ cog box!Pete.
Not many posters on here can claim to have driven an Atkinson Sherpa!! Robert
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even one official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?
As has been shown, many of us preferred to learn to time the box correctly and put up with the frack-to-bunt shift, to enduring the relentless battle with sticky, intensely irritating synchro 'boxes of the period. Robert
robert1952:
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even one official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?As has been shown, many of us preferred to learn to time the box correctly and put up with the frack-to-bunt shift, to enduring the relentless battle with sticky, intensely irritating synchro 'boxes of the period. Robert
Robert I think the best syncro box was probaly the Volvo F88 but it was still slow and heavy compared to a fuller road ranger or ZF constant mesh, does that make me idle
cheers Johnnie 
sammyopisite:
robert1952:
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even one official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?As has been shown, many of us preferred to learn to time the box correctly and put up with the frack-to-bunt shift, to enduring the relentless battle with sticky, intensely irritating synchro 'boxes of the period. Robert
Robert I think the best syncro box was probaly the Volvo F88 but it was still slow and heavy compared to a fuller road ranger or ZF constant mesh, does that make me idle
cheers Johnnie
I am reluctant to be lured into revealing my synchro-box preferences as I have a very strong resistance to all of them; however I can admit to quite liking two synchro-box installations: the old 10-speed Scania 'box in the 2-series (and early 3-series); and the DAF’s version of the ZF in the 95 (and I have to say, the 95XF was pretty slick). Robert
newmercman:
While I’m no fan of the ZF synchro boxes and their ponderous, notchy gear changes, I would take one over the constant mesh offerings from ZF in a heartbeat.However as my first artic (a 2800) had the nasty ZF 12spd, I have to thank it for teaching me how to change gear properly with a constant mesh box, because everything else was child’s play in comparison.
I honestly thought my left hand was going to fall off after the first few weeks of grinding and grating that my inexperienced stick stirring produced.
newmercman if you had had the same teacher as me you would have learned very quickly as he used to have a piece of 2x2 hardwood which rattled your ankle or knee if you went to touch the clutch pedal once moving and it is surprising how pain makes your brain learn things very quickly and this was on a Scammell highwayman and gate change box 
cheers Johnnie
TOP LESSONS!!!
Hey, the best teachers have a rail in their hands, but not in my schooltime .
eric,
robert1952:
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even one official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?As has been shown, many of us preferred to learn to time the box correctly and put up with the frack-to-bunt shift, to enduring the relentless battle with sticky, intensely irritating synchro 'boxes of the period. Robert
Ironically I thought the 1628 was about as bad as a synchro got in that regard.Until I was given a later 2534.To give an idea of how heavy and sticky that zb thing was it had obviously already sheared it’s gear linkage before I was given it.Which they’d decided to weld together again rather than buy a new link.It then broke again at the weld.Which they decided to weld up again rather than replace it. Seemingly on the basis that it was cheaper to keep breaking the welds than to keep breaking new linkages.As for my aching shoulder and elbow who cared and all using double de clutched the shifts to help the pointless obstructive synchros which were even worse without that help.While all the time cursing the thing thinking if only I could have had that old 2800 with its proper box and an engine which actually pulled as a bonus. 
Carryfast:
robert1952:
acd1202:
robert1952, the 1626, and indeed the 1924 before it were sold in he UK with synchro boxes as standard. 12 speed in the 1626, and 6 speed standard, 12 speed optional in the 1924. If you had a '26 with the constant-mesh AK6-90, well I can only assume that you worked for some sort of masochist. It wasn’t even one official options list, but it did appear in the handbook suggesting that the constant-mesh was offered in some markets; in which case if you shouted long and hard enough you could probably get it here. But Why?As has been shown, many of us preferred to learn to time the box correctly and put up with the frack-to-bunt shift, to enduring the relentless battle with sticky, intensely irritating synchro 'boxes of the period. Robert
Ironically I thought the 1628 was about as bad as a synchro got in that regard.Until I was given a later 2534.To give an idea of how heavy and sticky that zb thing was it had obviously already sheared it’s gear linkage before I was given it.Which they’d decided to weld together again rather than buy a new link.It then broke again at the weld.Which they decided to weld up again rather than replace it.
If I could have a pint of pale, dry, well-hopped bitter for every time I’ve cursed a synchro box and wished for a constant-mesh one, I’d be as ■■■■■■ as a box of bollox and happy as a sand-person! With any luck, from now on, if I drive anything HGV (or GBH, as I prefer to call it), it’ll be equipped with a 9-speed Fuller and no nonsense! To which end, if anyone requires an old git with gearbox skills, a sense of humour and a will to enjoy life to move a vintage lorries from A to B, then I’m your man! Robert
