slowlane:
This is symptomatic of the very popular pursuit of going for the low hanging fruit.
You can fine drivers left, right and centre… and it will only make a small dent. If VOSA was actually serious about enforcing the rules to create a safer environment on the roads, the fines would be structured to hit the operator as well as the driver, for drivers hours and load security and bridge bashing.
If the operator gets a proper penalty each time one of their drivers does, you can bet that all of a sudden - the quality of planning improves, a whole bunch of kit that actually allows drivers to secure a load according to the regs appears, recruitment and training and development would suddenly become of the utmost importance.
Fining drivers and having a moan at the operator completely fails to address the systemic problem.
slowlane:
This is symptomatic of the very popular pursuit of going for the low hanging fruit.
You can fine drivers left, right and centre… and it will only make a small dent. If VOSA was actually serious about enforcing the rules to create a safer environment on the roads, the fines would be structured to hit the operator as well as the driver, for drivers hours and load security and bridge bashing.
If the operator gets a proper penalty each time one of their drivers does, you can bet that all of a sudden - the quality of planning improves, a whole bunch of kit that actually allows drivers to secure a load according to the regs appears, recruitment and training and development would suddenly become of the utmost importance.
Fining drivers and having a moan at the operator completely fails to address the systemic problem.
Can drivers’ fines for insecure loading not impact operator licences? Perhaps I’m wrong, but I thought each fine was logged against the company as a black mark. Too many black marks and operator licences begin to incur penalties, restrictions, and the like.
slowlane:
This is symptomatic of the very popular pursuit of going for the low hanging fruit.
You can fine drivers left, right and centre… and it will only make a small dent. If VOSA was actually serious about enforcing the rules to create a safer environment on the roads, the fines would be structured to hit the operator as well as the driver, for drivers hours and load security and bridge bashing.
If the operator gets a proper penalty each time one of their drivers does, you can bet that all of a sudden - the quality of planning improves, a whole bunch of kit that actually allows drivers to secure a load according to the regs appears, recruitment and training and development would suddenly become of the utmost importance.
Fining drivers and having a moan at the operator completely fails to address the systemic problem.
Can drivers’ fines for insecure loading not impact operator licences? Perhaps I’m wrong, but I thought each fine was logged against the company as a black mark. Too many black marks and operator licences begin to incur penalties, restrictions, and the like.
I think you’re correct, they are logged in some way. However, I’m arguing that whatever the current system is, doesn’t cost operators enough money to make quality kit and training worth it.
P Stoff:
I did some work for a potato company earlier in the year and the forklift driver asked the drivers if they were going to strap boxes. If they said no he wouldn’t load them and they could load themselves or ask another flt
DickyNick:
Back to the point rob, the drivers on that photo couldn’t be arsed spending 5 or 10 minutes pulling some internals over the load which would have kept the cops or DVSA happy and avoided this debate in the first place. You know that, as you’ve previously said you strap all your loads as I do. It’s not hard is it.
You talk about internals, West Yorkshire police were advertising on Twitter the other week a palletised load of ale they had pulled over & fined the driver for using internals because they “were not adequate”. So, he had gone to the effort of strapping every pallet (as per standards accepted by the consignor) and still got fined, so he might as well have just done what most others seem to do and not bother.
“Use ratchets” they say. Boss doesn’t supply them properly (ie. 13 straps in every unit/trailer), consignors site doesn’t facilitate it (“■■■■ off and do that on the road outside drive, your in the way”) and they would crush all the load resulting in it being rejected… what is the driver supposed to do apart from refuse to carry anything.
Fine the consignors until they start packaging stuff right. Fine the operators until they start supplying the kit.
P Stoff:
I did some work for a potato company earlier in the year and the forklift driver asked the drivers if they were going to strap boxes. If they said no he wouldn’t load them and they could load themselves or ask another flt
DickyNick:
Back to the point rob, the drivers on that photo couldn’t be arsed spending 5 or 10 minutes pulling some internals over the load which would have kept the cops or DVSA happy and avoided this debate in the first place. You know that, as you’ve previously said you strap all your loads as I do. It’s not hard is it.
You talk about internals, West Yorkshire police were advertising on Twitter the other week a palletised load of ale they had pulled over & fined the driver for using internals because they “were not adequate”. So, he had gone to the effort of strapping every pallet (as per standards accepted by the consignor) and still got fined, so he might as well have just done what most others seem to do and not bother.
“Use ratchets” they say. Boss doesn’t supply them properly (ie. 13 straps in every unit/trailer), consignors site doesn’t facilitate it (“■■■■ off and do that on the road outside drive, your in the way”) and they would crush all the load resulting in it being rejected… what is the driver supposed to do apart from refuse to carry anything.
Fine the consignors until they start packaging stuff right. Fine the operators until they start supplying the kit.
That won’t have any effect, they will just write it off as a cost of business, but curtailing the operator’s licence by 20-30 % for three months certainly will get their attention.
rob22888: Fine the consignors until they start packaging stuff right. Fine the operators until they start supplying the kit.
That won’t have any effect, they will just write it off as a cost of business, but curtailing the operator’s licence by 20-30 % for three months certainly will get their attention.
I’d go as far as to suggest that Operators have no incentive to take their responsibilities seriously,in terms of load security equipment provision and correct vehicle spec for the job and time allowances,without that type of summary sanction being in DVSA’s armoury.I’d also suggest that speccing rope hooks and longitudinal load deck anchorage points and sufficient straps/ropes to provide at least two lateral and longitudinal passes over each row of pallets and double stacked pallet loads to be individually strapped over each level,should be made mandatory as part of that.While hitting drivers just means that cost cutting operators can just use the usual excuse if you won’t take it relying on the curtains or internal roof anchorages to hold it all on,I’ll find another mug who will.
rob22888: Fine the consignors until they start packaging stuff right. Fine the operators until they start supplying the kit.
That won’t have any effect, they will just write it off as a cost of business, but curtailing the operator’s licence by 20-30 % for three months certainly will get their attention.
I’d go as far as to suggest that Operators have no incentive to take their responsibilities seriously,in terms of load security equipment provision and correct vehicle spec for the job and time allowances,without that type of summary sanction being in DVSA’s armoury.I’d also suggest that speccing rope hooks and longitudinal load deck anchorage points and sufficient straps/ropes to provide at least two lateral and longitudinal passes over each row of pallets and double stacked pallet loads to be individually strapped over each level,should be made mandatory as part of that.While hitting drivers just means that cost cutting operators can just use the usual excuse if you won’t take it relying on the curtains or internal roof anchorages to hold it all on,I’ll find another mug who will.
Pointless the only thing that would make any difference would be a total redesign of all general merchandise logistics from a pallet and stretch wrap based system to wooden crates or metal stillages where you can put serious tension on a ratchet strap without it compressing the load. Throwing a thin two inch strap over any pallet of cardboard boxed product is of so little, if any at all, safety benefit it’s not worth the exposure to risk standing in a yard close to forklifts operating to put them on and take them off.
Carryfast:
I’d go as far as to suggest that Operators have no incentive to take their responsibilities seriously,in terms of load security equipment provision and correct vehicle spec for the job and time allowances,without that type of summary sanction being in DVSA’s armoury.I’d also suggest that speccing rope hooks and longitudinal load deck anchorage points and sufficient straps/ropes to provide at least two lateral and longitudinal passes over each row of pallets and double stacked pallet loads to be individually strapped over each level,should be made mandatory as part of that.While hitting drivers just means that cost cutting operators can just use the usual excuse if you won’t take it relying on the curtains or internal roof anchorages to hold it all on,I’ll find another mug who will.
Pointless the only thing that would make any difference would be a total redesign of all general merchandise logistics from a pallet and stretch wrap based system to wooden crates or metal stillages where you can put serious tension on a ratchet strap without it compressing the load. Throwing a thin two inch strap over any pallet of cardboard boxed product is of so little, if any at all, safety benefit it’s not worth the exposure to risk standing in a yard close to forklifts operating to put them on and take them off.
What is certain is that,with the exception of a roped cross,without floor anchorage points it’s impossible to provide longitudinal lashing.While at least two passes of straps or ropes per pallet etc means you can apply less tension on each than using just one.Similarly in the case of securing double stacked loads seperately.But yes we did seem to use a lot more solid stillages and crates in previous times but none of which removes the basic premise that securing a load in a tilt or curtainsider is/should be no different to if it was a flat.It’s just that they provide the convenience of not having to sheet them.
Old John:
Anybody got a number for Nina@ HSE?
I wanted to send her a couple of pictures to see if she could give me a steer on whether I’m doing it correctly.
Therein lies the problem. In all those tweets by the police / dvsa the pictures only ever show the, alleged, failures. The comments generally say that the “failure” was allowed to go on it’s way after remedial action by the driver / operator. The are no pictures, that I am aware of, of the now perfectly safe and compliant load that leaves.
Regarding yours, looks pretty textbook to me although, for me personally only, a higher headboard would be nice. If the front ones did go it would save all that smelly silage, if that’s what it is, getting on that nice clean cab
Old John:
Anybody got a number for Nina@ HSE?
I wanted to send her a couple of pictures to see if she could give me a steer on whether I’m doing it correctly.
Regarding yours, looks pretty textbook to me although, for me personally only, a higher headboard would be nice. If the front ones did go it would save all that smelly silage, if that’s what it is, getting on that nice clean cab
Well spotted that man. If you look carefully you’ll see that I crossed the front bales with rope (for all the good it would do). The front should have been crossed with straps same as the back, but the driver,who is getting on a bit,didn’t have enough straps with him. Anyway, drove it like it was eggs and got to our destination without a problem.
I hope Nina will send me a gold star.
Just looking at that first pic, isnt that Nina in amongst the police bods making me wonder if it was a setup? Might be wrong or might have been held at the same place as they were pulling them, but does look a tad suspicious.
Btw what the heck gas load security got to do with HSE? Its a Vosa / Dvsa thing surely.
As forbthe bales, as long as all tbose straps had little tags on giving maker date, strength etc thrn that looks ok. If not thats the dvsa xmas party paid for (and other crap in this job).
I was loading drinks last night. 2 Morrison’s curtain siders were also loading there. They had about 3 or so support pillars down the trailer with a thick metal bar horizontally between each one. Like the euro trailers. I looked and thought 1/ those pallets of drinks aren’t going anywhere with them. 2/ my “look vosa I’ve made an effort” internal straps on my load was an embarrassment compared to how secure theirs looked with the metal bars.
But… the internal straps over the bars probably make the trailers more versatile for varying loads that general haulage take. So over all, the metal bars at the exact height of normal single stacked pallets is all well and good if that’s all the company ever move.
DickyNick:
I was loading drinks last night. 2 Morrison’s curtain siders were also loading there. They had about 3 or so support pillars down the trailer with a thick metal bar horizontally between each one. Like the euro trailers. I looked and thought 1/ those pallets of drinks aren’t going anywhere with them. 2/ my “look vosa I’ve made an effort” internal straps on my load was an embarrassment compared to how secure theirs looked with the metal bars.
But… the internal straps over the bars probably make the trailers more versatile for varying loads that general haulage take. So over all, the metal bars at the exact height of normal single stacked pallets is all well and good if that’s all the company ever move.
The bars are there to hold their roll cages it’s just a bonus they hold the pallets better.
ETS:
Good. Now I’m waiting for them to start a purge on:
drivers who don’t indicate
drivers who cut 3 lanes + stripes to take an exit (while speeding and without indicating)
cars who try to pass lorries on a single lane roundabout
cyclist/bikers who pass nearside
cars that stay in lane 2/2 or 3/3 or 4/4 going at 50mph when limit is 60/70
drivers who don’t use the hard shoulder when it’s open for use
drivers who stop on the hard shoulder to take a ■■■■/make/take a phone call
drivers who use their phones while driving on the motorway
drivers who can’t keep their vehicle in a single lane (drunk?)
those who drive at 40mph on the motorway for no obvious reason
(mostly queue jumpers) those that cut in between two vehicles forcing the second one to brake hard
drivers (99% cars) who park on double yellow lines causing huge traffic queues in cities, or park illegally on a corner or right before/after a pedestrian crossing
Until then I will consider my tax-payer money as being wasted by the police/VOSA
