Carryfast:
In this case it’s the A frame type drawbar outfit with a 40-45 ft trailer that would win every time in most British road conditions.
Until it comes to parking the bloody thing. Parking spaces in services for example that require backing in would never support such an outfit, same for the hundreds and thousands of warehouses and rdc’s with loading doors that offer minimal room for manouver. Not to mention the fact you’d need two loading doors for each truck unless you load/unload the front rigid end and the trailer seperately in a time consuming shunting effort on the same door.
Given the choice between having to put the prime mover on the dock first to get loaded and tipped at those few depots where they couldn’t handle a prime mover and trailer next to each other on seperate bays and the little bit of extra care needed to park it in a motorway services (considering that there’s already no problem with using the type of oversize wagons we’ve already got running under STGO) v this lash up and all the other LHV ideas it would be the former that performs better in every way.I think the idea of the wagon and drag LHV idea being seen as some type of unmanageable nightmare is all in the heads of drivers who’ve just got some type of irrational fear of drawbar outfits.
Now go and google Hilton Park, Abington, Peterborough, Northampton andHartshead moor east to name but a few. Getting in these when you’re overlength or width can be tough enough with a standard artic and they’re even reasonably busy
While you go do that,for the rest of us who know and have experience of these places here’s a couple of videos
Go with the Interlink Combination, much easier, 6m and a 12m with twin 5th wheels, you can drop the front and hook the rear and visa versa when required . Max height 2.6mtr from deck base 90 cbm+ a load. very easy to handle, reversing takes a bit of getting used to though.
Yeah nice and easy in the day but come 9 o clock at night and it’s a tad harder work. Even truckstops are going to be a pain. The stockyard no problem but Swindon Chippenham junction 26 are going to be a nightmare
Now go and google Hilton Park, Abington, Peterborough, Northampton andHartshead moor east to name but a few. Getting in these when you’re overlength or width can be tough enough with a standard artic and they’re even reasonably busy
While you go do that,for the rest of us who know and have experience of these places here’s a couple of videos
So in your world every wagon has to be designed to be able to go absolutely everywhere .
But where’s the relevance of a standard length wagon and drag being driven by someone who doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing with it and an artic that’s been driven up to a left hand turn too far to the left when he approached it,to the comparison between a 25 m wagon and drag v the new longer trailer idea.In which the extra length of the new type artic trailer has been put on the overhangs instead of in the middle.In which case the example of the artic would just have meant that he wouldn’t have been able to go far enough to the right when he started the turn anyway if not then the front right hand corner of the trailer would probably have taken out the parked bikes etc.
It’s obvious that you’ll be able to find anywhere that can defeat anything even a 7.5 tonner if you look hard enough for somewhere tight enough and especially if the driver’s ability isn’t exactly 100%.
That manouvre with the German DHL drawbar outfit is similar to what I had to do every morning when reversing the same type of outfit off a,not exactly wide,road through the,not exactly wide,depot gates onto the dock.
While putting more length onto the overhangs (or in the middle) of a standard length euro 45 ft semi trailer won’t make things any easier for drivers like that one trying to make the left hand turn at the T junction.
As for 25 m drawbar outfits v longer artics etc etc.It’s time to go back to this old argument in which Zetorpilot seemed to confirm the adavantages of the LHV drawbar concept.
Carryfast:
So in your world every wagon has to be designed to be able to go absolutely everywhere .
Within reason if you’re using them on general. As the good and experienced have already mentioned, there are plenty of places that send or receive goods that you can barely get a standard trailer in not to mention multi drop. Either way up champ the inability to get them on most of the services and a lot of diesel dumps and garages would be a fairly big hurdle
But where’s the relevance of a standard length wagon and drag being driven by someone who doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing with it and an artic that’s been driven up to a left hand turn too far to the left when he approached it,to the comparison between a 25 m wagon and drag v the new longer trailer idea.In which the extra length of the new type artic trailer has been put on the overhangs instead of in the middle.In which case the example of the artic would just have meant that he wouldn’t have been able to go far enough to the right when he started the turn anyway.
Examples of real life (outside the council and trunking environment) in which we all live and work. The law of [zb] happens if you will. Roads get closed for various reasons, you get to a turn you can no way make or has a restriction unknown to you on it so you have to deal with it and deviate and then …
As for 25 m drawbar outfits v longer artics etc etc.It’s time to go back to this old argument in which Zetorpilot seemed to confirm the adavantages of the LHV drawbar concept.
All well and good if you use them in an environment appropriate and suitable which this island is not.
Just to clear things up as you seem to be saying that the LHV DB is what we need but only for limited uses etc etc etc and given you’ve obviously googled and youtubed the [zb] out of this again, is it LHVs that ■■■■■■■■ arouse you now instead of full length full weight A trains ■■?
Your thoughts need qualcomming to keep track of them
Carryfast:
So in your world every wagon has to be designed to be able to go absolutely everywhere .
Within reason if you’re using them on general. As the good and experienced have already mentioned, there are plenty of places that send or receive goods that you can barely get a standard trailer in not to mention multi drop. Either way up champ the inability to get them on most of the services and a lot of diesel dumps and garages would be a fairly big hurdle
But where’s the relevance of a standard length wagon and drag being driven by someone who doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing with it and an artic that’s been driven up to a left hand turn too far to the left when he approached it,to the comparison between a 25 m wagon and drag v the new longer trailer idea.In which the extra length of the new type artic trailer has been put on the overhangs instead of in the middle.In which case the example of the artic would just have meant that he wouldn’t have been able to go far enough to the right when he started the turn anyway.
Examples of real life (outside the council and trunking environment) in which we all live and work. The law of [zb] happens if you will. Roads get closed for various reasons, you get to a turn you can no way make or has a restriction unknown to you on it so you have to deal with it and deviate and then …
As for 25 m drawbar outfits v longer artics etc etc.It’s time to go back to this old argument in which Zetorpilot seemed to confirm the adavantages of the LHV drawbar concept.
All well and good if you use them in an environment appropriate and suitable which this island is not.
Just to clear things up as you seem to be saying that the LHV DB is what we need but only for limited uses etc etc etc and given you’ve obviously googled and youtubed the [zb] out of this again, is it LHVs that ■■■■■■■■ arouse you now instead of full length full weight A trains ■■?
Your thoughts need qualcomming to keep track of them
Total bollox considering that my argument in this case is just between the idea of either longer semi trailers v LHV drawbar outfits in which case there’d be less problems for the driver of the LHV drawbar than the driver of that loopy extended semi trailer idea.
The issue related to the use of doubles A train outfits,like the Stan Robinson idea for example,is a totally different matter which would obviously need to be subject to more restrictions in their use than the LHV drawbar would need to be.In this case the LHV drawbar is also a full weight LHV unlike the daft extended artic semi trailer idea with the advantage of being more manouvrable and safer in regard to not wiping things out with it’s overhangs in the real world.
Carryfast:
Total bollox considering that my argument in this case is just between the idea of either longer semi trailers v LHV drawbar outfits in which case there’d be less problems for the driver of the LHV drawbar than the driver of that loopy extended semi trailer idea.
Well as that is only 2 metres longer than a standard trailer as opposed to the 8 or so ? of an LHV I would think not It’s basically the same length as a wagon and drag. I regularly run with my trailer stretched to that giving me similar overhang and a worse cut in and TBH it aint that big a deal. Although parking can be tough if I’m wide as well which this isn’t
Your argument is pretty random at best, unsurprisingly . Basically your spouting " that is to big so lets use something much bigger. In fact let’s go so big that operationally it’s a right pain in the [zb]
The issue related to the use of doubles A train outfits,like the Stan Robinson idea for example,is a totally different matter which would obviously need to be subject to more restrictions in their use than the LHV drawbar would need to be.In this case the LHV drawbar is also a full weight LHV unlike the daft extended artic semi trailer idea with the advantage of being more manouvrable and safer in regard to not wiping things out with it’s overhangs in the real world.
Hmmm the daft extended artic isn’t full weight, it’s cartin bog roll so an LHV wouldn’t need to be either
Like I said above, I and many other lads run regularly at that length and overhang, in and out of places you wouldn’t believe without carnage ensuing.
I’m not saying that LHVs wouldn’t also have there uses nor A or b trains, I never have done I actually have a realistic understanding of, how they handle and what there true uses and restrictions would/could be. Born from experience not frantic googling, youtooobin and an overactive imagination. FFS you hardly even, if at all, mentioned the LHV concept until I sent you off to Youtube how the Dutch do it, now you’re a [zb]in expert in the field ■■? ya plank
In fact I stand corrupted yet amused I’ve just skimmed that thread and you appear to be telling the yanks and cannucks how this is the thing and they are all doing it wrong.
billybigrig:
In fact I stand corrupted yet amused I’ve just skimmed that thread and you appear to be telling the yanks and cannucks how this is the thing and they are all doing it wrong.
Hmmm make your mind up eh ■■?
No what that thread actually shows is an understanding of all the different strengths and weaknesses of ‘all’ the different ideas as applied both in euro land and the US.In most cases,unless you’re carrying indivisible loads,a decent 7 or 8 axle wagon and drag outfit,would be more practical,and more manouvrable,and be able to carry more weight,with lower axle weights,than a standard typical US Tractor and semi trailer artic outfit would.
It would also be a better bet than the extended euro semi trailer idea which is the subject of this thread and that one.In addition to that there’s then the issues related to the relative merits of A trains v B trains or standard single trailer artic outfits etc etc.However none of that has zb all to do with any reference to ‘google’ or ‘youtube’.It’s all basic knowledge which I’ve had since long before the internet ever existed.
The job this Trailer is doing replaces what this Drag used to do both carry the same either 60 or 90 palletts depending on products, drove it last night not much swing & suprisingly little scrub when reversing, which will be the best will be found out soon does its 1st trip this morning Prudhoe To Skelmersdale twice a day 7 days a week
No what that thread actually shows is an understanding of …
No it shows, as usual, you trying to argue black is white with a bunch of lads who’ve been there and done that based upon nothing more than a ■■■■■ for massive trucks and a lifetime watching bad trucking movies.
However none of that has zb all to do with any reference to ‘google’ or ‘youtube’.It’s all basic knowledge which I’ve had since long before the internet ever existed.
Must be accrued knowlege from all that experience then eh.
No what that thread actually shows is an understanding of …
No it shows, as usual, you trying to argue black is white with a bunch of lads who’ve been there and done that based upon nothing more than a ■■■■■ for massive trucks and a lifetime watching bad trucking movies.
However none of that has zb all to do with any reference to ‘google’ or ‘youtube’.It’s all basic knowledge which I’ve had since long before the internet ever existed.
Must be accrued knowlege from all that experience then eh.
How the zb could it be a ‘bunch of lads who’ve been there done that’ when this lash up of a device hasn’t even been put into large scale use yet .
Unlike my ‘experience’ of driving drawabar outfits in which I wouldn’t have complained one bit about being given a 45 foot semi trailer to pull behind a 6 wheeler rigid using a two axle dolly and proven by the facts as written by those who’ve been there done that.But I don’t remember any so called ‘trucking movies’,bad or otherwise,that ever featured such outfits.
greek:
The job this Trailer is doing replaces what this Drag used to do both carry the same either 60 or 90 palletts depending on products, drove it last night not much swing & suprisingly little scrub when reversing, which will be the best will be found out soon does its 1st trip this morning Prudhoe To Skelmersdale twice a day 7 days a week
I could answer that question without even bothering to drive either of them.But what the zb do I know I’ve only got all my information from Hollywood according to bigrig.
Although having said that a proper A frame wagon and drag will always handle better and be more practical than a caravan one especially at high gross weights.
I know ups use a frame types from Germany to the uk. I see them at the Barking depot all the time. Must admit going forward they are very good with no cut in but I’ve been told they require a bit of practice going backwards.
No what that thread actually shows is an understanding of …
No it shows, as usual, you trying to argue black is white with a bunch of lads who’ve been there and done that based upon nothing more than a ■■■■■ for massive trucks and a lifetime watching bad trucking movies.
However none of that has zb all to do with any reference to ‘google’ or ‘youtube’.It’s all basic knowledge which I’ve had since long before the internet ever existed.
Must be accrued knowlege from all that experience then eh.
How the zb could it be a ‘bunch of lads who’ve been there done that’ when this lash up of a device hasn’t even been put into large scale use yet .
I was clearly referring, by use of the words "that thread"instead if “this thread”, to the one you linked to
Unlike my ‘experience’ of driving drawabar outfits in which I wouldn’t have complained one bit about being given a 45 foot semi trailer to pull behind a 6 wheeler rigid using a two axle dolly and proven by the facts as written by those who’ve been there done that.But I don’t remember any so called ‘trucking movies’,bad or otherwise,that ever featured such outfits.
Of course you would big trucker, 10-4 rubber chicken and all that eh
Funny how you are all for those who’ve been there and done that when it suits eh Captain Flipflop
kr79:
I know ups use a frame types from Germany to the uk. I see them at the Barking depot all the time. Must admit going forward they are very good with no cut in but I’ve been told they require a bit of practice going backwards.
They also use them on uk work or at least they did.
. 