Hi everyone
I’ve searched this forum for topics on this but couldn’t really find the answer I was looking for.
I’ve applied to a company and have an assessment and interview this Saturday.
The pay is very good but I’ve heard everyone is a Limited co. Driver there.
I don’t really understand all this yet but I was under the impression you couldn’t be a limited company driver and work for the same company all the time, am I right in thinking this?
Help would be much appreciated
Cheers
transportoperator.co.uk/2016/05/ … d-drivers/
Broadly, someone is self-employed if they are in business on their own account and bear the responsibility for the success or failure of that business. They will be employed if they personally work under the control of their engager, and do not run the risks of having a business themselves…
“We are finding evidence that haulage companies are sold the idea that they can set up, or have an agent set up companies for their workers and avoid tax.
“The companies and the workers appear to be unaware that there is legislation that may apply and allows HMRC to pursue workers, agents and the companies themselves. They could face investigation and significant tax bills. We think some companies are told, wrongly, that anti-avoidance legislation does not apply.
I’ve been to seminars where transport lawyers and HMRC reps have been present, talking about this subject. In simple terms, do you have your own truck or not? If you do, you are self-employed. If you don’t, you aren’t.
albion:
http://transportoperator.co.uk/2016/05/13/hmrc-fires-warning-shot-on-self-employed-drivers/Broadly, someone is self-employed if they are in business on their own account and bear the responsibility for the success or failure of that business. They will be employed if they personally work under the control of their engager, and do not run the risks of having a business themselves…
“We are finding evidence that haulage companies are sold the idea that they can set up, or have an agent set up companies for their workers and avoid tax.
“The companies and the workers appear to be unaware that there is legislation that may apply and allows HMRC to pursue workers, agents and the companies themselves. They could face investigation and significant tax bills. We think some companies are told, wrongly, that anti-avoidance legislation does not apply.In simple terms, do you have your own truck or not? If you do, you are self-employed. If you don’t, you aren’t.
Im not up to date on UK law but thats the way ive always seen it, you have to have your own truck to be self employed,Ltd or sole trader.
Just how do these agencies get away with taking on drivers as self employed if the only form of income the driver has is from said agency? Surely by HMRC regs they should all be employed per se…
Just to clarify too, it’s direct through a company, not an agency.
This is what I’m struggling to understand, surely if a company is advertising for drivers, you are employed by them and should be on PAYE, but I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.
Will_161:
I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.
Why not phone them up and ask?
If there’s an offer of employment tell them to you’ll only accept it if it’s PAYE
Will_161:
Just to clarify too, it’s direct through a company, not an agency.This is what I’m struggling to understand, surely if a company is advertising for drivers, you are employed by them and should be on PAYE, but I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.
You could ring HMRC yourself and ask about the legal position. HMRC may be interested, though they seem to turn a blind eye often enough.
peirre:
Will_161:
I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.Why not phone them up and ask?
If there’s an offer of employment tell them to you’ll only accept it if it’s PAYE
Yeah these are all questions I will be asking this Saturday, just wanted to get my head around the legalities etc, before I see them.
Will_161:
peirre:
Will_161:
I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.Why not phone them up and ask?
If there’s an offer of employment tell them to you’ll only accept it if it’s PAYEYeah these are all questions I will be asking this Saturday, just wanted to get my head around the legalities etc, before I see them.
So this will be your full time employment?
I have just being going through the same kinda situation…working for a well known national agency who supply drivers to a major retailer, been with them for 7 weeks now, love the work but i knew when signing up that after 12 weeks they would no longer provide me with shifts unless i went LTD company, i contacted HRMC, they did not seem to bothered, also contacted ACAS they were helpful but said " HMRC are only concerned when tax is not being paid"…contacted an accountant who scared the crap outta me and wanted to charge loads for his services…i did consider leaving but in the end went with an umbrella company, i know it’s a risk and i don’t feel happy about it but there is a chance of a well payed job with this firm so i bit the bullet!
the nodding donkey:
Will_161:
peirre:
Will_161:
I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.Why not phone them up and ask?
If there’s an offer of employment tell them to you’ll only accept it if it’s PAYEYeah these are all questions I will be asking this Saturday, just wanted to get my head around the legalities etc, before I see them.
So this will be your full time employment?
Yes it would if they offered me a job.
It’s advertised as tramping, from the company themselves, not through an agency, but having spoken to someone on here who worked for them, they said it was Limited Co. when he was there and you invoiced them.
Obviously I won’t be accepting anything if it’s dodgy.
S. dunk transport?
Will_161:
Yes it would if they offered me a job.It’s advertised as tramping, from the company themselves, not through an agency, but having spoken to someone on here who worked for them, they said it was Limited Co. when he was there and you invoiced them.
Obviously I won’t be accepting anything if it’s dodgy.
My personal opinion is that it isn’t right. As I say ring up HMRC, usually surprisingly helpful, and see what they say.
However, bear in mind if you are a Ltd company, you will have to sort out your own holiday pay, your own sick pay, your own pension, you essentially have very few (if any) rights as regards employment and unless they state otherwise, if it’s quiet, then I guess you won’t be getting paid for the days you aren’t working.
Will_161:
Will_161:
peirre:
Will_161:
I’ve heard everyone is Limited Co.]Yeah these are all questions I will be asking this Saturday, just wanted to get my head around the legalities etc, before I see them.
So this will be your full time employment?
Yes it would if they offered me a job.
It’s advertised as tramping, from the company themselves, not through an agency, but having spoken to someone on here who worked for them, they said it was Limited Co. when he was there and you invoiced them.
Obviously I won’t be accepting anything if it’s dodgy.
Than you can NOT be self employed.
Ask the company if they are ok if you ring up on say Tuesday, that you’re not coming in on Wednesday till Friday, because you have got beter paid work for those three days, but you’ll be back on Monday…
And just out of morbid curiosity, how much are they offering to pay?
I’ve just received an e-mail briefing from Croners, with this in it:
Bogus self-employment
The question of whether people are genuinely self-employed or effectively operating as employees while being denied basic rights such as sickness and holiday pay has been exercising the UK courts for some time, with one trade union arguing that bogus self-employment in the construction industry is out of control. Now,
transport operators are coming under the spotlight with the Unite union taking a case to an employment tribunal claiming that a driver
who transports goods to Co-op stores has been forced by an employment agency to operate on a self-employed basis. This is despite the fact that he does not own a vehicle, has no public liability insurance and is not responsible for maintaining, insuring or fuelling the vehicle he drives. We will follow the case when it is heard, early in this New Year, as it is likely to have wide implications for other drivers and operators.
Tell them you’ve no problem being self employed but then shove a set of terms of business in front of them they have to sign which states you can send in anyone you want, absolves you from all liability for any expenses or damage as a result of your or the driver you send in actions and also specifies being paid within 7 days of invoice with late payment penalties. Oh and tack on one about paying for parking and that you will be and they will be billed for it.
If they refuse to sign ask why given those are standard terms and you’re supposed to be self employed.
Stubz:
I have just being going through the same kinda situation…working for a well known national agency who supply drivers to a major retailer, been with them for 7 weeks now, love the work but i knew when signing up that after 12 weeks they would no longer provide me with shifts unless i went LTD company, i contacted HRMC, they did not seem to bothered, also contacted ACAS they were helpful but said " HMRC are only concerned when tax is not being paid"…contacted an accountant who scared the crap outta me and wanted to charge loads for his services…i did consider leaving but in the end went with an umbrella company, i know it’s a risk and i don’t feel happy about it but there is a chance of a well payed job with this firm so i bit the bullet!
Have you thought of going to an agency that will take you on PAYE?
Will_161:
Obviously I won’t be accepting anything if it’s dodgy.
Trust me what they’re asking is dodgy, they’re trying to get out of their obligations as an employer, what’s more it allows them to undercut employers who will accept their obligations.
Don’t always agree with Conor, (that might be an understatement 
) but actually if you have a bit of free time and want to waste their time you could always go along to the interview and hand them you terms and conditions when they make it clear they’re taking you on as a ltd company, also up the rate, just tell them it’s what you charge others.
You could always name and shame and then maybe a few more of us might go along for a wind up I’d be tempted. 
Conor:
Tell them you’ve no problem being self employed but then shove a set of terms of business in front of them they have to sign which states you can send in anyone you want, absolves you from all liability for any expenses or damage as a result of your or the driver you send in actions and also specifies being paid within 7 days of invoice with late payment penalties. Oh and tack on one about paying for parking and that you will be and they will be billed for it.If they refuse to sign ask why given those are standard terms and you’re supposed to be self employed.
Bear in mind this operator will be trying this on to absolve him of employer responsibilities as already mentioned, NOT for your benefit.
As you would be your own business he can’t offer you a job but would be engaging your Co to do work for him. Think getting a plumber or joiner in to work on the house. The amount he’ll propose to reimburse your Co for your services should reflect this and don’t forget the purpose of a Co is to turn a profit!!
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Thanks Chaps
I’m still going to go along and see what they say.
If it isn’t PAYE, it’s not happening.
muckles:
Stubz:
I have just being going through the same kinda situation…working for a well known national agency who supply drivers to a major retailer, been with them for 7 weeks now, love the work but i knew when signing up that after 12 weeks they would no longer provide me with shifts unless i went LTD company, i contacted HRMC, they did not seem to bothered, also contacted ACAS they were helpful but said " HMRC are only concerned when tax is not being paid"…contacted an accountant who scared the crap outta me and wanted to charge loads for his services…i did consider leaving but in the end went with an umbrella company, i know it’s a risk and i don’t feel happy about it but there is a chance of a well payed job with this firm so i bit the bullet!Have you thought of going to an agency that will take you on PAYE?
Yes, like i said i did consider just leaving, in the past it’s never been an issue, always been PAYE…My issue is the firm in question are taking on in the next month and i want to give myself the best chance of securing a position, leaving now might scupper that, if i’m not successful, i won’t be staying and will find a different agency.