Bit of an old story this one, but similar dance…
scotsman.com/business/taxman … -1-3018563
They’ve also made it to HMRC’s recent name and shame list…
gov.uk/government/uploads/s … ulters.pdf
Yes Harry Monk, I agree with your comments of a Ltd Co and the protection of its Directors, but as has been mentioned in my previous comments, MSC Legislation is unique in that it permits the collection of Debt from not only the Ltd Co but importantly also its Directors. Whether the company has been dissolved, gone bust or is still trading makes no difference, the MSC legislation permits transfer of cos debts to its Directors whether Ltd or not.
In a nutshell then im Ltd and im the sole director I get wind that HMRC is chasing me up so I dissolve my Ltd company but are you saying that the taxman can still take my house and any other assets I have ?
IndigoJo:
Winseer:
The best defence therefore is to make sure you ARE skint before declaring yourself insolvent. Neil Hamilton did this just before going bankrupt to get out of paying his legal bill for unsuccessfully suing Fayed. He signed all his assets over to his Wife I believe. This requires great trust in one’s wife, as she could boot him out and run off with all the assets signed over to her at any point.I think they can recover assets dishonestly transferred to relatives etc if it was done recently enough to appear to be a tax dodge. Don’t they do that with inheritance tax?
When transfering assets to relatives - if there is a way the original owner can get those back without further ado - then the third party is not in genuine possession of the assets, and the original owner is still deemed to be “in control” instead.
The paper trail that isn’t so easy to unravel involves selling to another company for a quid, and then winding up the receiving company, shifting assets abroard OR giving it away outright - so that if you fell out with whomever you gave it to - you lose it all.
There is a time limit as to how recently to an insolvency declaration you can have given assets away - as you said.
There is going to be a lot of money in “firms about to fall over” suing third parties on the basis that if they lose - the firm is already going bankrupt so nothing lost - but if they win - there might be a reprieve for the entire company.
Any serious assets within the company will have already been made to disappear. You don’t think any company going bust with debts of xyz millions actually really “lost” that amount of money eh?
Once it became obvious the firm was about to go beyond tipping point - the juicy bits are snapped up, shifted offshore, or transfered as a “going concern” somewhere else.
When these watchdog types catch up with Tom Champagne type characters who’ve fled abroad, and now live in some fancy villa somewhere - there is yet to be a power than enables receivers to confiscate that foreign property that is clearly representing their assets flaunted before officialdom as “out of reach”.
imho the Limited Company concept has had it’s day, and should have been left in the 20th century. 
dandyhighwayman2:
In a nutshell then im Ltd and im the sole director I get wind that HMRC is chasing me up so I dissolve my Ltd company but are you saying that the taxman can still take my house and any other assets I have ?
Very rare it has to be the most absolute over the top total ■■■■ take. If you look at the figures for how many directors are gone after personally it’s very low.
Mike-C:
Bit of an old story this one, but similar dance…
scotsman.com/business/taxman … -1-3018563They’ve also made it to HMRC’s recent name and shame list…
gov.uk/government/uploads/s … ulters.pdf
I know someone on that list and the local TV news door stepped them, acting all outraged, when the list came out. Turns out the old no publicity is bad publicity turns out to be true - inundated with folk wanting cash in hand work done. 
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
The majority of lorry drivers are skint anyway, hence why they’re still working into their late 60’s, so they (HMRC) can’t take what they ain’t got.Another opinion dressed up as FACTS (sic) by Mr Generalisation.
Once again, what (and how) do you know of other drivers’ financial situations?
Idiot!
Once again, MSC legislation allows HMRC to transfer the debt to the companies Director, this is not the norm when it comes to Directors of Ltd companies. A Director under normal circumstances can only be held responsible for the co’s debt if for example he has committed fraud in the carrying out of his business. Another situation where a Director can be responsible for the debt is if he has given a personal guarantee in writing and due to this personal guarantee the recipient suffers financial loss. A Ltd company offers Limited liability so therefore no debt can be passed to its Directors UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. MSC legislation is far from normal circumstances.
MSC legislation was brought in in 2007, its similar to IR35 legislation but with teeth. HMRC have an uncanny way of letting things run and then pouncing. IR35 is another example of where HMRC turn a blind eye and then begin to enforce when they are short of cash. I am not aware of IR35 being enforced at this present time but as I was informed by the IR35 enforcement team that any Driver who through a LTD company works through Agencies is “vulnerable” to the IR35 legislation.
HMRC have an annoying habit of letting big fish off the hook and deep frying smaller ones.
thisismoney.co.uk/money/smal … 0-000.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hartnett 
John Fogerty – Fortunate Son
Some folks are born
Made to wave the flag,
Oh, they’re red, whit and blue.
And when the band plays “Hail to the chief”,
They point the cannon right at you.
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no senator’s son.
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.
Some folks are born
Silver spoon in hand,
Lord don’t they help themselves.
But when the tax man comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale.
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no millionaire’s son.
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.
Some folks inherit
Star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war.
And when you ask them,
“How much should we give?”
They only answer “More! More! More!”
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no military son.
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no fortunate one.
It ain’t me,
It ain’t me.
I ain’t no Fortunate Son.
Honestscott76:
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
The majority of lorry drivers are skint anyway, hence why they’re still working into their late 60’s, so they (HMRC) can’t take what they ain’t got.Another opinion dressed up as FACTS (sic) by Mr Generalisation.
Once again, what (and how) do you know of other drivers’ financial situations?
Idiot!
That’s a good one Scott, did you think of it yourself or did you have to ask someone?
You’re just another mouth-on-a-stick, know-it-all lorry driver that thinks he is the font of all knowledge.
We all need to be careful that the firm that says it’s employing us actually does - and it’s not the other way around - ie you employ a payroll firm for £27 a week to fiddle your taxes, not get away with it, then leave you holding the baby at HMRC when nothing got handed over to them despite you already having it deducted from your “wages”…
I’d hold in suspicion therefore ANY payroll firm that charges ANY fee to “process your timesheets/invoices”…
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
The majority of lorry drivers are skint anyway, hence why they’re still working into their late 60’s, so they (HMRC) can’t take what they ain’t got.Another opinion dressed up as FACTS (sic) by Mr Generalisation.
Once again, what (and how) do you know of other drivers’ financial situations?
Idiot!
That’s a good one Scott, did you think of it yourself or did you have to ask someone?
You’re just another mouth-on-a-stick, know-it-all lorry driver that thinks he is the font of all knowledge.
And your opinion means?
Honestscott76:
And your opinion means?
About as much as your FACTS (sic) do, sweetie.
Harry Monk:
robbo99:
Think Accounting has not been dissolved, its quite clearly showing up on Companies House website as Active. The Directors will have assets so thats where the money can be recovered from.Not if it’s a limited company and it goes bust, that’s the whole point of trading as a limited company, the directors can protect their personal assets from claims against their company. That’s the whole reason I trade as a limited company.
Ah this old rubbish that gets repeated as fact. If it can be proven that the directors of a limited company were running it illegally or in a way that contributed significantly to its demise then they can be personally liable for the debts of the company.
Basically from the Insolvency Act:
Fraudulent trading
Fraudulent trading is where any business of the company has been carried on with intent to defraud creditors or for any fraudulent purpose: Insolvency Act (IA) 1986, sec213. This includes where debts have been incurred by a company knowing that they cannot be paid. Note, however, that fraudulent intent must be shown.
Any person knowingly a party to the fraud may be made liable to contribute to the company’s assets: IA, 1986, sec213(2)
Wrongful trading
This is where a company has gone into insolvent liquidation and it appears to the court that any person who has been a director of the company knew or ought to have known that this would occur and failed to take all reasonable steps to minimise the loss to the creditors: Insolvency Act 1986, sec214.
Keeping a company in a situation where it is trading at a loss, so increasing the deficit to creditors, rather than ceasing to trade or putting the company into liquidation, is clear failure to take such steps. No fraudulent intention is required.
If wrongful trading is established the court may order:
Director liable to contribute to the assets of the company: IA 1986, sec214.
The Companies Act also has a long list of requirements of directors, the breach of some which can also see them made liable for any debts.
So no, the fact you’re Limited does not protect a directors personal assets.
dandyhighwayman2:
In a nutshell then im Ltd and im the sole director I get wind that HMRC is chasing me up so I dissolve my Ltd company but are you saying that the taxman can still take my house and any other assets I have ?
Absolutely if they can prove the company was run for fraudulent purposes, i.e tax evasion, or you deliberately ran the company taking on more credit knowing it was going to go bust.
I’m sorry to disappoint you Conor but the real world operates in a very different manner from your armchair view.
Legally proving things like wrongful trading is incredibly difficult and expensive and carries a huge risk of compounding losses particularly if the director has personal guarantees on bank loans or leases they’ll just end up joining a long queue of creditors after losing more money.
Numbers barred from being directors as well are not only low but most are typically serial outright fraudsters.
The biggest risk to directors comes from the authorities deciding to make an example of them.
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
And your opinion means?About as much as your FACTS (sic) do, sweetie.
My Facts regarding ‘the majority of Drivers are Skint’ are clearly ‘apt’ to you, or it wouldn’t have ‘rattled your cage’ (Laugh my ■■■■■■ ■■■ off!)
Honestscott76:
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
And your opinion means?About as much as your FACTS (sic) do, sweetie.
My Facts regarding ‘the majority of Drivers are Skint’ are clearly ‘apt’ to you, or it wouldn’t have ‘rattled your cage’ (Laugh my [zb] ■■■ off!)
Your FACTS (sic) are nothing more than the opinions of a self-important steering wheel attendant who wants others to believe that he earns more than they do, and contrary to what you think are irrelevant to me. as I don’t share your line of work.
You are still yet to declare where your FACTS come from.
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
Olog Hai:
Honestscott76:
And your opinion means?About as much as your FACTS (sic) do, sweetie.
My Facts regarding ‘the majority of Drivers are Skint’ are clearly ‘apt’ to you, or it wouldn’t have ‘rattled your cage’ (Laugh my [zb] ■■■ off!)
Your FACTS (sic) are nothing more than the opinions of a self-important steering wheel attendant who wants others to believe that he earns more than they do, and contrary to what you think are irrelevant to me. as I don’t share your line of work.
You are still yet to declare where your FACTS come from.
If what I think is so irrelevant to you why take the time to comment? With regards “declaring where my facts come from” I perceive that as your interested. What a condescending muppet you are.
peirre:
Good luck anyone who wants to join the class action against HMRC/THINK, but IMO you’ve more chance of seeing pigs fly, than winning the case.
the way I read it they are taking Think accounting to court not the hmrc!!!