Left running??

[alexxinny]

I was watching a Swedish/Norwegian movie last night, set in the late 50’s or early 60’s, back when Swedes still used to drive on the left. A convoy of cars came to the border with Norway, where there was a barrier across the left half of the road. At this point, the cars all switched sides and continued down the road into Norway.

I was wondering if there are any places where such a scene still exists, outside of the borders of a few African countries and possibly if there is a road leading into Gibraltar? Is there still anyplace on the continenet where you actually switch sides while driving (as opposed to being on a ferry or chunnel train)? I know that Czechoslovakia used to run left until the Germans invaded and changed their way of driving, but are there any other countries where you still need to do this?

[wheel_nut]

Good Question

Im not sure of anywhere where you have to actually swap sides. Possibly in parts of Africa as you say.

We drove on the right in Gambia and that was a British Colony but it was the same in Senegal which is French

Belgians drive on both sides of the road though

[sheeter]

Not on the European continent, but certainly in Asia. The border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is one place where it occurs. Pakistan, India and Nepal are all driving on the left, like the UK.

When I first drove to those places in the Sixties there was a sign at the border on the return trip that said,

Welcome to Afghanistan, be aware that in this country most vehicles drive on the Right-Hand side of the road.

Some drivers must have been confused by this, so they drove down the middle of the road. To be safe.

[spardo]

Sheeter:
Not on the European continent, but certainly in Asia. The border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is one place where it occurs. Pakistan, India and Nepal are all driving on the left, like the UK.

When I first drove to those places in the Sixties there was a sign at the border on the return trip that said,

Welcome to Afghanistan, be aware that in this country most vehicles drive on the Right-Hand side of the road.

Some drivers must have been confused by this, so they drove down the middle of the road. To be safe.

Sheeter,
Yes, remember that now you mention it at the Afghan/Pak border although don’t recall the actual transition, so maybe we were the ones in the middle!
But surely, Alexx is right, there is a change in Europe - at La Linea/Gib?

BTW I haven’t forgotten that I owe you an email from way back before my techo troubles. Fortunately I took a hard copy of your long message and will reply soon. Promise.

Salut, David.

[travelagent]

I was watching a Swedish/Norwegian movie last night, set in the late 50’s or early 60’s, back when Swedes still used to drive on the left. A convoy of cars came to the border with Norway, where there was a barrier across the left half of the road. At this point, the cars all switched sides and continued down the road into Norway.

That must have been “Kitchen Stories”, a norwegian comedy from around 2002. When I saw it in a cinema, they had one of those small but funny looking 50ies mobile homes/trailers there for promotion. These were quite an important part of the story and were even featured on the movie poster.

[Lasurazes]

These countries drive on the left…

Anguilla
Antigua & Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
Bhutan
Botswana
British Virgin Islands
Brunei
Cayman Islands
Channel Islands
Cyprus
Dominica
Eire-Ireland
England
Falkland Islands
Fiji
Grenada
Guyana
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Isle of Man
Jamaica
Japan
Kenya
Lesotho
Macau
Malawi
Malaysia
Malta
Mauritius
Montserrat
Mozambique
Namibia
Nepal
New Zealand
Northern Ireland
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Seychelles
Scotland
Singapore
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
St Kitts & Nevis
St. Helena
St. Lucia
Surinam
Swaziland
Tanzania
Thailand
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
US Virgin Islands
Zambia
Zimbabwe
St. Vincent & Grenadines
Wales

Vince

[coffeeholic]

They drive on the right in Gib. Anyway the thing to worry about when crossing from Spain to Gib is not which side the traffic is on but if a plane is going to land on your head as the road goes straight across the runway for the airport and they close barriers , level crossing style.

[spardo]

Vince,
That is an amazing effort on your part. Most of these I can understand, for historical reasons, but why on earth countries like:
Dominica - ex Spanish?
Indonesia - ex Dutch
Macau - ex Portuguese
Mozambique - ex Portuguese
Thailand - ex nothing
US Virgins - ex ecrable
and Hong Kong - doesn’t it have direct road links with China? If so there is another crossover point.
Must bear all these in mind for my next long distance trip!

Oh, and BTW Coffee, I think I drove not walked into Gib, but either way never even noticed. Must have had my eyes in the air and missed everyone dodging around me on the road!

Salut, David.

[simon]

Hong Kong is easy, like Cyprus its an ex British colony

[alexxinny]

Spardo:
Vince,
That is an amazing effort on your part. Most of these I can understand, for historical reasons, but why on earth countries like:
Dominica - ex Spanish?
Indonesia - ex Dutch
Macau - ex Portuguese
Mozambique - ex Portuguese
Thailand - ex nothing
US Virgins - ex ecrable
and Hong Kong - doesn’t it have direct road links with China? If so there is another crossover point.
Must bear all these in mind for my next long distance trip!

I did some research last night, and found the following:
Holland, Spain and Portugal all used to drive left. This chaged sometime before WW1. Don’t forget, Holland used to be a Spanish holding.

Russia changed just before the war.

At the time of the anschluss, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and half of Austria drove left. Try figuring out how they managed in Austria with part of the country driving left, and part driving right…Anyways, Hitler passed an edict that all occupied countries would drive right, and they have done so ever since.

Sweden changed in 1967. At this time, they retired all of the old left-running trams in Stockholm, but it took several months to replace all the busses with right-doored models. It seems that most crossings between Sweden and Norway were unguarded and rural, and many drivers would forget which side to drive on. BTW, most Swedish home-market vehicles were left-side controls even then, since they used to favour having curbside entry.

In North America, the US colonies all used right-running from the earliest days, but the Canadian provinces of Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia drove left into this century, ON and PQ converted before WW1, but BC waited until the late 20’s to convert. Newfoundland only joined Canada in 1949, and switched to right-running at that time.

Brazil, having been a Portuguese colony, drove left until early in the 20th century.

The US Virgin Islands have kept left-running, a holdover from old Spanish control. From what I remember, most people there drive typical left-control American cars, and a right-corner mirror is popular with cabs and other cars that work in heavy traffic, in order to see ahead.

Thailand tried to emulate the British, so that may be why they drive left. China has passed right since confucian times, when an edict was passed, so perhaps the Siamese were just trying to be different?

I’m sure any crossings between these left-running asian countries is heavily guarded today, so switching ont-the-fly likely doesn’t happen. Likewise, in North America, there are land borders between Dominica and Haiti, as well as with Suriname and whatever it borders with, but I’m certain all those borders are guarded as well. African customs crossings are probably also a stop-and-wait proposition.

[spardo]

Alexx,

A really interesting post. I knew that several countries used to drive left until about 100 years or so ago, but couldn’t remember which. Fascinating that those old colonies continued with the tradition even after the previous ‘home’ countries changed.

Even more interesting is that Canada was half and half and even more so that one of those left running provinces was Quebec, with its French ties and anti anglo sentiments.

I can’t imagine why the US Virgins retain left running if all the vehicles are set up differently. Why on earth go to the trouble of forward facing mirrors (a thing I have never done, too confusing, though after 5 years here I still drive my right hand drive car) when you have all the equipment for an easy change?
You mention that the American Colonies from the earliest times drove on the right and I don’t dispute that, but why is it that early American cars were right hand drive (check out old Laurel & Hardy films etc.)?

And just to widen this thread out a bit, isn’t it true that most train tracks are left running, maybe British influence there, although it really doesn’t matter with trains; and yet in an area where you would think British influence would prevail, all the world’s shipping passes port to port (ie right running).

Finally, I seem to remember reading years ago that the origins of driving/riding on the left is to free the sword (ie right) arm for defence from oncomers. If this is true, then most of the world is defenceless now! Or maybe recent research that most violent people are left handed has something to do with it. That being said, maybe I have the right idea, sitting in the right hand side of my car well away from all those violent lefties!

Still at the mercy of rogue pedestrians, of whatever persuasion, though.

Salut, David.

[simon]

Ah, Spardo. The reason Europe drives on the right and Great Britain doesn’t is because most of Europe was conquered by Napolean and France. ( ) and Britain wasn’t .

“So what”, you all cry .

Napolean decreed that the right side of the road was from now on the correct side to use, so that his soldiers where on the correct side of the road when going past all the refugees, as they retreated from the British army at high speed .
(I seem to remember this from a silly but informative history programme on the tv, years ago .)

[alexxinny]

About France and Quebec;

Before the French revolution, french cariages always passed left, but at some point, the ‘common people’ started passing right with their carts, so for a while, it was pass left if you were the gentry in a carriage, pass right if you were an ox cart. When a carriage and an oxcart met, the carriage took precidence, and they passed left-until the rumblings of revolution stated. At that point, arguments of who had right-of-way were common, and the rich started passing right, to avoid provoking mobs of angry peasants. Napoleon later made this law, and brought it to all the lands he conquered.

The Autro-Hungarian empire, meanwhile, made it law to pass left, and the parts of Austria that continued to do so until the 30’s were those old holdings of the Hapsburg empire.

Quebec was first a French royal holding, but was later a British crown holding, and French has only been the ‘official’ language in that province for less than 40 years, so British laws were probably what kept it left-pasing, although it was likely left-passing from colonial times. The US state of Louisiana has many Cajun French and French Creole speaking parishes in the southern part, and it seems they continued to pass left until laws were passed about 100 years ago to standardise the traffic code.

As far as that little anecdote about the uncertainty of which side to drive on in Afghanistan, that reminds me of an old story i once heard. A couple was vacationing in Malta, and they were surprised at the erratic way people drove on the roads there. One day while riding in a taxi, they asked the driver why Maltese motorists drove that way. His response was;
“In England, you drive on the left. In France, you drive on the right. In Malta, you drive in the shade.”

[alexxinny]

You mention that the American Colonies from the earliest times drove on the right and I don’t dispute that, but why is it that early American cars were right hand drive (check out old Laurel & Hardy films etc.)?

And just to widen this thread out a bit, isn’t it true that most train tracks are left running, maybe British influence there, although it really doesn’t matter with trains; and yet in an area where you would think British influence would prevail, all the world’s shipping passes port to port (ie right running).

The Ford Mdel T was the first popular car to use left-side controls. Before that, most cars had right-side controls, because most people preferred to get out curbside. Limousines continued this practice in the US until WW2, and before the Model T came about, most cars were owned by fairly wealthy people, and if you didn’t have a driver, you at least wanted it to look like you did. Left-controls were considered to be ‘prolitarian’ at first.

You may notice from old newsreels that Hitler was often chaufferred around in a right-control Mercedes-Benz. I’ve also seen pictures of either King George or Edward being chauferred in a left-control Rolls, so it seems to have worked both ways.

Many railroads used to run left here, but most ran right. Up until the late 60’s, several major Western railroads still ran left, but that changed with corporate mergers, and as of today, all the major railroads usually run right.

Boats on rivers and canals have passed right since antiquity, and Roman law required this, so it’s probable that this convention has little to do with land passing rules. Don’t forget, even Spain used to pass left on land, and they were the other big naval power of days gone by.

And, one last oddity, before closing this subject: I lost the specifics, but there was a country that switched sides sometime in the late 1800’s or early 1900’s when they had the “year of cheap meat” or something similar. It seems that most draft animals were unable to be trained to stay on the other side of the road, hence the glut of meat on the market. The peasants ate well that year due to the change…

[wheel_nut]

You can have any colour you like as long as it is black. Oh and would Sir require that with left hand drive or right?

I thought the deciding factor was something to do with Napolean too and even before with Romans and the hands they held women with while guarding them with the sword hand.

If its to do with that, we should use the middle of the road with the mrs following while carrying the shopping

[Lasurazes]

AlexxInNY:
About France and Quebec;

Before the French revolution, french cariages always passed left, but at some point, the ‘common people’ started passing right with their carts, so for a while, it was pass left if you were the gentry in a carriage, pass right if you were an ox cart. When a carriage and an oxcart met, the carriage took precidence, and they passed left-until the rumblings of revolution stated. At that point, arguments of who had right-of-way were common, and the rich started passing right, to avoid provoking mobs of angry peasants. Napoleon later made this law, and brought it to all the lands he conquered.

.

And of course, during and after the revolution, appearing to be a member of the gentry was not a very good idea unless one fancied a trip to the “National Razor”, or “Patriotic Shortener”, as the guillotine was known.

There is also a theory that France drives on the right because Napoleon himself was left-handed.

Most railway networks ape the national road network in terms of which side trains pass, although France is an exception due to the fact that their rail network was largely designed and built by the British

Vince

[jimti]

Vince:
These countries drive on the left…

Anguilla
Antigua & Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belize

Vince

When I was in Belize (1979 / 1981)we all drove on the right, except for some dodgy drivers who drove down the middle of the road

[alexxinny]

Well, I thought I had posted my last on the subject, but I’ve come up with some conflicting info:

It seems the Romans may have driven left, or maybe only driven right in the countryside. Many cities in Italy (Rome, Genoa, etc.) drove left until the early 20’s, even though vehicles passed right in the rural locales. Confusing…

Even though confucian China had edicts about passing right, several cities (Shanghai, Bejing) had cars passing left until Mao took over.

And, Indonesia passes left, but East Timor passed right, until the Indonesians took over, requiring the Timores to pass left. Now that they are declaring independance, people have started to drive right most of the time, but not always…

The Faulklands were briefly forced to drive right by the Argentinians, but that went back to the traditional left-running once liberated.

And, another source tells me that the Canadian provinces of Quebec and Ontario used to follow common American right-running, but the Atlantic provinces of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia ran left. This seems plausible, and there was even evidence posted in the form of a news story from the 20’s, showing where the changeover from right-running Quebec used to happen, This story mentioned that the switching of sides had been a “long running problem”, so I assume that in fact, ON and PQ have always been right-runners.

[Lasurazes]

AlexxInNY:
It seems the Romans may have driven left, .

I once watched a TV programme which covered this.

By comparing the different amount of wear at the entrance to a quarry, it was ascertained which side of the road was used by laden wagons, and which by empties. The conclusion was that the Romans did indeed drive on the left- empty wagons returned to the quarry on that side of the road.

Incidentally, the reason our railway gauge is 4’ 8½" is as follows (allegedly)

The Romans used wheels on their wagons which were this far apart (this has also been ascertained by grooving in the road), because this was the width of two horses’ bums, and this measurement determined the width of their carts, which were pulled by a team of two.

Vince

[spardo]

Vince:

AlexxInNY:
It seems the Romans may have driven left, .

I once watched a TV programme which covered this.

By comparing the different amount of wear at the entrance to a quarry, it was ascertained which side of the road was used by laden wagons, and which by empties. The conclusion was that the Romans did indeed drive on the left- empty wagons returned to the quarry on that side of the road.

Incidentally, the reason our railway gauge is 4’ 8½" is as follows (allegedly)

The Romans used wheels on their wagons which were this far apart (this has also been ascertained by grooving in the road), because this was the width of two horses’ bums, and this measurement determined the width of their carts, which were pulled by a team of two.

Vince

This thread has got to be the unlikeliest but most interesting one for a long time. Thanks Alexx, but it begs the question, ‘do you not think you are confirming most drivers’ belief that transport managers have too little to do if one at least of their number can manage so much research?’ Having been both I will decline an opinion on account of conflict of interest.

The quarry grooves are just the sort of evidence road detectives need and I’m sure is valid, and the bit about rail guage sounds feasible too. Russia always used to run broad guage and the Romans never made it there. Maybe their carts were pulled by women - come on Vince, you’re the expert, are Russian women broader in the beam than Roman horses? As any Aussie will tell you there has always been great rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. As an ex-Sydneysider myself I am quite prepared to believe that of Victorian (the state not the era) women . Although in the 60s I travelled on one uninterrupted express train journey between the two cities, it was then apparently quite recent that it was necessary to crane-lift carriage-bodies from broad bogies to standard at the border.

Finally I may have told this before (at my age that means certainly) but last summer on several trips to my local gravel pit the rule of the road changed from right to left for one hundred metres beyond the weighbridge to allow laden trucks to more easily access the left-situated bridge on leaving. Kind of scary in a little Saxo and trailer. Just a thought Vince, wouldn’t that confuse road detectives in 4004?

Salut, David.