Left-Hand Drive Seddon 38:Fours

[robert1952]

Have a look a the pictures below. Seddon clearly decided to enter the competition for Euro-spec premium tractive units in preparation for UK’s entry into the EEC in the early '70s. This Motor Panels cabbed long-wheelbase unit with LHD and a respectable Rolls Royce 280 and 9-speed Fuller, should have attracted a few customers. But did it? Does anyone know if many were made and who ran them?

The photo caption reads:

‘Among the new models for the European Show at Brussels this week, is a new 3.4 metre wheelbase model from Seddon. It is the 38:four 280, a 38-ton gross tractive unit, with a turbocharged Rolls Royce 280 engine and nine-speed Fuller gear box. A well equipped sleeper cab has extensive insulation and sound deadening, and its quipment includes a tachograph, suspension seating and metric instrumentation.’

I notice that it was displayed on the stand of the Belgian company, Hocke, who had displayed previous models of LHD Seddons in the ‘60s.

When I put these pics, as a side issue, on another thread last April, ‘Saviem’ responded with the following ‘thumbs down’ comments on this vehicle:

'Robert, that Seddon European must have been 72/73, I think that Pat registered her on an L plate…and I know that I gave up the unequal struggle and joined Hartshornes, (Volvo Dealers), within weeks of driving that abomination. Then Chris set up WestMid around 74, just as I cleared off to France…
Orrible lorry that European…O rrible with a capital O!!!’

Anyway, here are the pictures. Robert

[robert1952]

Ignore the other version of this thread: it double-posted itself for some inexplicable reason! Robert

[robert1952]

One of the paradoxes of our time is that all modern sleeper-cabbed tractive units are fit for long-haul work to pretty well anywhere, but in the UK we rarely send them further than our shores nowadays. Forty years ago, the combination of our entry into the Common Market and the Middle-East boom meant that we had to realise a new concept: off-the-peg British 4x2 forward-control premium long-haul LHD Euro-spec tractive units with sleeper cabs and respectable drive-lines.

Among these were the Seddon 39:Four with its Rolls Royce 280 + 9-speed Fuller, the Seddon-Atkinson 400 with its ■■■■■■■ 335 + 9-speed Fuller, the Bedford TM with its Detroit 400 + 9-speed Fuller, the Ford Transcontinental with its ■■■■■■■ 335 + 9-speed Fuller, the Leyland Marathon with its ■■■■■■■ 335 + 9-speed Fuller, the ERF MGC with its ■■■■■■■ 335 + 9-speed Fuller, the ERF B-series with its ■■■■■■■ 290 and 9-speed Fuller and of course the ERF NGC ‘European’ with its ■■■■■■■ 335 + 9-speed Fuller. Some of these had 13-speed Fuller options but that’s a detail. (The NGC, in my humble opinion was the best contender, but I would say that wouldn’t I!).

The point is though, we had to manufacture premium long-haulers to compete with the Continentals, and here in the Seddon is yet another example of what we tried to pit against those Volvos and Scanias.

Robert

[saviem]

Evening all,

Well I suppose that I had better clarify my comments that Robert has posted!

This lorry, the very same show model, came down to Ryland Birmingham, still in its lime green paint with the blue stripe. I rushed off with her to show to someone in Stoke on Trent, then got bogged down in a valuation of some worn out piece of kit, so sort of lost interest in her. Actually she drove fairly ok, (remember it was a Seddon after all), but personally I had lost it altogether with Ryland, (whenever you sold anything, there were always arguments over the sales commission, a lousey way to work with your staff…and a lesson that I learned well…if someone makes money for you…pay them well)!

So my pal Chris (Kelly), took this abomination down to Pat Blackburn, at Chambers and Cook in Willenhall, and Pat took it on. In service I do not think that it was any good…(but were any Seddon Rolls Royce tractors any good…that throttle made even the most gentle driver sound like a cowboy…and the vehicle was like an Irish tin garden shed on wheels to drive. I think that Pat had some problems with her, and I do not know what happened to her when he got rid of her…

Meanwhile Chris had his moment of “epiphany” when he was delivering a Borderer, and the compressor failed, having repaired it on the side of the road, he then got a rollicking for not returning with the cheque before the banks closed!

In truth, crap lorries, sold by crap organisations…no wonder the lot failed…they all deserved so to do! Its no good looking back with dewey eyes behind rose tinted spectacles…what on earth were the “engineers” who built such shoddy vehicles thinking about?..It certainly was not the driver…and the operators that ran such poor vehicles actually lost out on productivity…remember just how miserable it was to drive some of this rubbish when it had a bit of wear in it.

Pat Blackburn ran a good operation, he actually purchased the very first TR280 266 hp Berliet sold by the new Renault Truck and Bus UK ltd, but his fleet strength was DAF…and although they did break down…the support was strong…Great bloke Pat Blackburn, he was a good friend…( got my cash for an 80 mph Big J …rolled up most hills until you needed to get into first)…what a lorry, RIP Pat my friend.

Funny Chris and I were only talking about this lorry the other day…and just what an abortion it actually was!..Extra sound insulation…WHERE…?

Perhaps best forgotten Robert!

Adieu.

9

[robert1952]

Saviem:
Evening all,

Well I suppose that I had better clarify my comments that Robert has posted!

This lorry, the very same show model, came down to Ryland Birmingham, still in its lime green paint with the blue stripe. I rushed off with her to show to someone in Stoke on Trent, then got bogged down in a valuation of some worn out piece of kit, so sort of lost interest in her. Actually she drove fairly ok, (remember it was a Seddon after all), but personally I had lost it altogether with Ryland, (whenever you sold anything, there were always arguments over the sales commission, a lousey way to work with your staff…and a lesson that I learned well…if someone makes money for you…pay them well)!

So my pal Chris (Kelly), took this abomination down to Pat Blackburn, at Chambers and Cook in Willenhall, and Pat took it on. In service I do not think that it was any good…(but were any Seddon Rolls Royce tractors any good…that throttle made even the most gentle driver sound like a cowboy…and the vehicle was like an Irish tin garden shed on wheels to drive. I think that Pat had some problems with her, and I do not know what happened to her when he got rid of her…

Meanwhile Chris had his moment of “epiphany” when he was delivering a Borderer, and the compressor failed, having repaired it on the side of the road, he then got a rollicking for not returning with the cheque before the banks closed!

In truth, crap lorries, sold by crap organisations…no wonder the lot failed…they all deserved so to do! Its no good looking back with dewey eyes behind rose tinted spectacles…what on earth were the “engineers” who built such shoddy vehicles thinking about?..It certainly was not the driver…and the operators that ran such poor vehicles actually lost out on productivity…remember just how miserable it was to drive some of this rubbish when it had a bit of wear in it.

Pat Blackburn ran a good operation, he actually purchased the very first TR280 266 hp Berliet sold by the new Renault Truck and Bus UK ltd, but his fleet strength was DAF…and although they did break down…the support was strong…Great bloke Pat Blackburn, he was a good friend…( got my cash for an 80 mph Big J …rolled up most hills until you needed to get into first)…what a lorry, RIP Pat my friend.

Funny Chris and I were only talking about this lorry the other day…and just what an abortion it actually was!..Extra sound insulation…WHERE…?

Perhaps best forgotten Robert!

Adieu.

9

Thanks for the reply, ‘Saviem’. Yes, it sounds as if this was mutton dressed as lamb, as we say. There certainly were some sheds in those days, and I haven’t forgotten the noise, the rattles, the drafts and the ill-installed components in many of them. But it is useful to try and place it in the history of how Britain tried to produce premium Euro-tractors in the '70s. In this case, as you say: probably best forgotten!

By the way, the vehicle shown by Ets. Jean Hocke, Rue Gaucheret.30, Brussels, the distributor of Seddon and Reo vehicles in Belgium.

Cheers,

Robert

[zb_anorak]

This looks like a bargain-basement Continental tractor- it does not even have the largest version of the Motor Panels cab on it. IIRC, at least one British assembler did use the full-width version, in its efforts to chisel a niche over the channel. The name of that manufacturer escapes me…

[robert1952]

FTF used the short version. It beats me why they didn’t all use the full-sized tall version that ERF, Mack (France) and Scammell used for their premium tractors. Then, as we recently discussed elsewhere, the shorter and / or narrower versions of the cab could have been used for fleet tractors or short-haul (just as Scania and many others did). Robert

[windrush]

Strange that it was considered so bad as the Seddon 13.4 16 tonners were very good and well liked by tipper operator’s. My last gaffer ran and drove one for years with the Perkins 6.354 engine (before I worked for him though) and really rated it.

Pete.

[dave_the_renegade]

windrush:
Strange that it was considered so bad as the Seddon 13.4 16 tonners were very good and well liked by tipper operator’s. My last gaffer ran and drove one for years with the Perkins 6.354 engine (before I worked for him though) and really rated it.

Pete.

I drove a 13.4 same engine etc as you did Pete, and hated the thing, offset steering wheel etc. Good job we all have different likes and dislikes.
Cheers Dave.

[carryfast]

robert1952:
FTF used the short version. It beats me why they didn’t all use the full-sized tall version that ERF, Mack (France) and Scammell used for their premium tractors. Then, as we recently discussed elsewhere, the shorter and / or narrower versions of the cab could have been used for fleet tractors or short-haul (just as Scania and many others did). Robert

Firstly a full width cab had/has its advantages regarding visibility along the sides in the mirrors and general work environment for the driver even on local tipper type work.Which then just leaves the question of that also applying to sleeper provision at least to fleet spec trucks and possibly even local work.On balance the idea of down specced cabs arguably helped no one in damaging the economies of scale from the point of view of the manufacturer and credibility regards driver acceptance and re sale value.With just the question of pay load margins in its favour.

Which seems to be answered by your reference to most vehicles today,even what would have been considered as general fleet spec,being upgraded to the expectation of full width sleeper in most cases.Which certainly applied in my experience in a general move away from small day cab fleet spec DAF 2500 to sleeper 2800/95 for example on the same trunking work.

It’s arguably that change,rather than the the idea of the Brits not actually having the kit in the day,which is the more important turning point.With as you say firstly the Crusader then the NGC,or the TM and SA 400 all being more than capable of meeting the required standard in the day.
.

[robert1952]

Personally, I’ve always believed that the width of the cab should be a standard mirror’s span from the width of the trailer (or bodywork in the case of a rigid), if possible. Robert

[windrush]

Dave the Renegade:

windrush:
Strange that it was considered so bad as the Seddon 13.4 16 tonners were very good and well liked by tipper operator’s. My last gaffer ran and drove one for years with the Perkins 6.354 engine (before I worked for him though) and really rated it.

Pete.

I drove a 13.4 same engine etc as you did Pete, and hated the thing, offset steering wheel etc. Good job we all have different likes and dislikes.
Cheers Dave.

I never drove one myself Dave, but those who ran them around here seemed to like them. Cheap to buy and easily repaired I believe? Placketts Parcels had dozens of them! The Foden S40 had the same cab and they were nice enough to drive, well compared to the half cabs they were!

Pete.

[gingerfold]

With the introduction of the Motor Panels cab in 1965 Seddon changed its production philosphy from being a medium sized builder of quite good quality vehicles to wanting to become a larger player chasing market share. Consequently its new range was competitively priced and inevitibly build quality suffered, although it did achieve its target of considerably increasing market share. For a time Seddon. pro-rata for its output, was the most profitable truck builder in the UK. Its lower quality product was one of the reasons Atkinson so bitterly fought the hostile takeover bid Seddon made for it in 1970, although both companies by then were offering heavyweight ranges with very similar driveline specifications. Seddon had sold into ther Benelux countries from the 1950s.

[robert1952]

I suppose it’s not hard to see why Seddon used this sleeper cab as a cost-saving exercise; they were, after all, using it for their domestic RHD long distance units as evidenced by the pictures below. Robert

[gingerfold]

Looking at those sleeper cab photos they remind me of the crewcab used on the Seddon dustcarts.

[pete_smith]

gingerfold:
Looking at those sleeper cab photos they remind me of the crewcab used on the Seddon dustcarts.

The first photo does, how about this one from down under? I think it looks ok, going off topic slightly,its Gingerfolds fault for stirring my memory!, there used to be an ex Seddon rigid that was fitted with a crew cab and a beaver tail body doing a few rallies in the West Midlands area in the 80’s, think it was from the Brownhills area, anybody know what happened to it? Cheer’s Pete

[robert1952]

The Oz one looks good, but it’s the previous model isn’t it? Nevertheless, it’s surprising what a visor and stone-guard will do for a wagon. The split windscreen is probably to reduce the cost of replacements resulting from the stones that made it to their wicked target! Robert

[pete_smith]

robert1952:
The Oz one looks good, but it’s the previous model isn’t it? Nevertheless, it’s surprising what a visor and stone-guard will do for a wagon. The split windscreen is probably to reduce the cost of replacements resulting from the stones that made it to their wicked target! Robert

Hi Robert, I meant to put that in my post and say progress is not always pleasing to the eye I got distracted thinking about that old bin lorry chassis!!

[robert1952]

pete smith:

robert1952:
The Oz one looks good, but it’s the previous model isn’t it? Nevertheless, it’s surprising what a visor and stone-guard will do for a wagon. The split windscreen is probably to reduce the cost of replacements resulting from the stones that made it to their wicked target! Robert

Hi Robert, I meant to put that in my post and say progress is not always pleasing to the eye I got distracted thinking about that old bin lorry chassis!!

Ah! Yes, the dustbin lorry! Like this you mean? Robert

[robert1952]

windrush:
Strange that it was considered so bad as the Seddon 13.4 16 tonners were very good and well liked by tipper operator’s. My last gaffer ran and drove one for years with the Perkins 6.354 engine (before I worked for him though) and really rated it.

Pete.

Well they can’t have been all that bad because this one of Eric Vick’s used to go down to Baghdad and back in the '70s. I met one of its drivers last summer and it had a 240 ■■■■■■■ in it. Not sure about that damned day-cab though! Robert