we have been told that once 15hrs is up your not even allowed back through the gates of base to drop the truck off. Or pick your car up as youd be back onsite No night out gear ..............tuff, crank up the night heater, roll ya coat up for a pillow and get your head down, Ive had to do it.
Even though I live 5-10mins from the stockyard, I still had a night out there in the cab recently, less hassle than going home, but I did have night out gear that time
travelling back to base or home in a “company car” that has been droppoed out to you would now be classed as “other work”
tasty:
travelling back to base or home in a “company car” that has been droppoed out to you would now be classed as “other work”
If that company car is owned and run by the company then driving that vehicle will be classed as other work.The operator has sent that company vehicle out to you for the express purpose of getting you back, therefore you are not able to freely dispose of your time.
MacDoog:
However if another driver bought the original drivers car for him to use to travel freely in then thats ok!!!The original driver would be able to pick up the truck from the operators premises as long as he has had his daily rest at the time he arrives at the yard.
Now that seems to be different from this and if so, who is correct 
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
But why would you necessarily have to return to the vehicle for the travelling time to count as daily rest ?Because it is dependant on when that daily rest starts, if you have used all of the 15 hours available then you are on daily rest immediately. However as the regulations say, and you quoted in your first post on this thread where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break.
So you complete 15 hours and go on rest, at which point you are free to dispose of your time, and resume work 9 hours later at the same place then everyone of those 9 hours is rest. If you travel home and then do not return to the vehicle in that place then your rest would not begin until you arrived home, the time spent travelling home cannot be counted as rest because you will be starting at a different location the next day and the travelling time then has to be taken into account. That travelling time then takes you over 15 hours duty time meaning it is impossible to take the minimum required 9 hours daily rest period.
tachograph:
For instance if I agreed with my boss that he would pick up the vehicle and I would make my own way home in my own time, and get back to the depot in the morning in my own time even though that wasn’t where I left the vehicle, would that be legal ?After all if it’s my choice to leave the vehicle and return home then go back to base and resume work after having the required daily rest, wouldn’t I be meeting all the requirements for daily rest, ie freely disposing of my time.
Daft as it seems no it wouldn’t. This isn’t a grey area, the Skills Coaches case answers this conundrum.
tachograph:
I’ve just gone quickly through the regulations but can’t find anything about having to start and finish a daily rest in the same place.You already found it because you quoted the relevant bit in your first post on this thread: Article 9 - REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
I was in a similar situation whereby I was out of hours after being away from base for some time. My boss arranged a hire car for me that was brought to the truck park where I was stranded, I drove home (about 150 miles), had my 2 days off then drove back to the truck. Keeping everything legal and above board.
Tiger.
JUST TO CLARIFY-You are NOT allowed to drive any company vehicle car/van etc after your 15 hrs are used up.
I think that you can drive a company car/ van but NOT to company premises etc.
If boss sent out a driver in a car and he drove the truck back to depot, leaving you with the car to go home for your rest period then I have been told (thought it was on a thread here but can’t find it) that this is legal.
ROG:
MacDoog:
However if another driver bought the original drivers car for him to use to travel freely in then thats ok!!!The original driver would be able to pick up the truck from the operators premises as long as he has had his daily rest at the time he arrives at the yard.
Now that seems to be different from this and if so, who is correct
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
But why would you necessarily have to return to the vehicle for the travelling time to count as daily rest ?Because it is dependant on when that daily rest starts, if you have used all of the 15 hours available then you are on daily rest immediately. However as the regulations say, and you quoted in your first post on this thread where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break.
So you complete 15 hours and go on rest, at which point you are free to dispose of your time, and resume work 9 hours later at the same place then everyone of those 9 hours is rest. If you travel home and then do not return to the vehicle in that place then your rest would not begin until you arrived home, the time spent travelling home cannot be counted as rest because you will be starting at a different location the next day and the travelling time then has to be taken into account. That travelling time then takes you over 15 hours duty time meaning it is impossible to take the minimum required 9 hours daily rest period.
tachograph:
For instance if I agreed with my boss that he would pick up the vehicle and I would make my own way home in my own time, and get back to the depot in the morning in my own time even though that wasn’t where I left the vehicle, would that be legal ?After all if it’s my choice to leave the vehicle and return home then go back to base and resume work after having the required daily rest, wouldn’t I be meeting all the requirements for daily rest, ie freely disposing of my time.
Daft as it seems no it wouldn’t. This isn’t a grey area, the Skills Coaches case answers this conundrum.
tachograph:
I’ve just gone quickly through the regulations but can’t find anything about having to start and finish a daily rest in the same place.You already found it because you quoted the relevant bit in your first post on this thread: Article 9 - REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
Interesting!!!..One of my earlier posts Ive put that the driver had to return to where the vehicle was left…then I spoke to a colleague who said he could resume work from the yard as long as he had had his daily rest. This would make sense as if the driver is not tied to one vehicle he could resume work in another. It would be rather costly to take his new / different unit to the place where he had to stop!!!
Del…it seems to be an area of the rules fraught with difficulties. So its YOUR choice to get the company vehicle bought out to you…is that legal? If its NOT your choice to use the company vehicle just because the operator wants the vehicle back…is that legal■■?
MacDoog:
Interesting!!!..One of my earlier posts Ive put that the driver had to return to where the vehicle was left…then I spoke to a colleague who said he could resume work from the yard as long as he had had his daily rest. This would make sense as if the driver is not tied to one vehicle he could resume work in another. It would be rather costly to take his new / different unit to the place where he had to stop!!!
This IS getting interesting 
Where do you find these amendments as according to the tacho rules if not at base or at home travelling is forbidden unless on a train or ferry with access to a bunk or couchette.
Not saying this is strictly the case as obviously there must be exceptions to this rule going by previous posts but where do you find these amendments.
- Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation,
or to return from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational
centre where the driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or break unless the driver is on a ferry
or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
Where do you find say 11a. Disregard this if a workmate brings your car out for you to go home in. Confused.com
Also if your boss sends out a hired car is this not considered a company car for the term of the hire.
aranger:
Where do you find these amendments as according to the tacho rules if not at base or at home travelling is forbidden unless on a train or ferry with access to a bunk or couchette.Not saying this is strictly the case as obviously there must be exceptions to this rule going by previous posts but where do you find these amendments.
- Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation,
or to return from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational
centre where the driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or break unless the driver is on a ferry
or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.Where do you find say 11a. Disregard this if a workmate brings your car out for you to go home in. Confused.com
Also if your boss sends out a hired car is this not considered a company car for the term of the hire.
Probably off the WTD directive on wikipedia…if its on there def true.
Del…it seems to be an area of the rules fraught with difficulties. So its YOUR choice to get the company vehicle bought out to you…is that legal? If its NOT your choice to use the company vehicle just because the operator wants the vehicle back…is that legal■■?
I honestly don’t know! But I wouldn’t imagine “choice” was a relevant factor
As far as I can see there is no difference between your wife bringing your car to you and you driving it home and your boss bringing a car out for you to drive home. The pertinent point I was trying to make was that it must be home(or girlfriend 
etc) but not back to yard.
Where I work if we run to 15 hours, and are within about an hour of base, then boss sends out 2 drivers in a van, one takes the truck and the other takes the van back. The original driver rides as a passenger in the van back to the yard and then goes home. He is paid until arriving at depot. He fills in back of tachograph chart as other work for this period, with an explanation.
He then has the following shift off(after having his daily rest)with pay , then restarts at the depot.
We have been told repeatedly that VOSA are happy with this, and I am sure I once saw a letter from them saying so.
My company is really keen on rules etc.
I don’t imagine that would apply if it was a regular occurence, and maybe this is only permitted under unforseen delays etc where a driver could theoretically exceed his hours anyway.
Well gents as the OP,thanks for all your replys,Its certainly cleared things up for me but i didnt think it would generate 50+ responses,however MY HEAD HURTS!!!
DT@Leightonhaul:
Well gents as the OP,thanks for all your replys,Its certainly cleared things up for me but i didnt think it would generate 50+ responses,however MY HEAD HURTS!!!
As you are - Location: emel empstead - should that be MY EAD URTS!!!
My brain hurts as well…Gentlemen I shall attempt to gain a definitive answer for you ( and me!) tomorrow…
MacDoog:
My brain hurts as well…Gentlemen I shall attempt to gain a definitive answer for you ( and me!) tomorrow…
Ooh !! - this is like one of those soaps on tele - Regulation Street
ADD - or, more pertinent this - HOME OR AWAY 
I have had this problem aswell, the answer according to the bro in law is as some have already said…as you are driving a company car this IS ILLEGAL. It is other work as you are driving a company car, I know they can even DO you if you drive home after you finish and have used all weekly hours even if you are in your own car especially if you have an accident. They will go down the route of tiredness ect but cam do you…
even though the guy’s ahead of me answered just wanted my twopenneth!!
one off the jobs i had a while ago said i couldn’t do it for one reason if your not able to return to base and have to park up for the nite, if you leave the truck then the insurance is nil and void don’t know how they work it but i think it’s because base is classed as secure and when your on a nite out your basically a security guard. That’s how i understand anyway.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/workingtime/peanregulationecno5612001164.pdf
I think Article 9 paragraph 2 covers what you want.
Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a vehicle falling within the scope of the regulation, or to return from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the drivers home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, shall not be counted as rest or break unless the driver is on a ferry or trian and has access to a bunk or couchette.
Now I think that means getting picked up away from base whether you are going drive back or are a passenger in the vehicle it will not count as rest period until you have either reached home or your normal operating base and your rest ends when you leave your house to get to the truck or leave your base to get back to your truck.
Whilst I have enjoyed the meandering thoughts on a solution to the original thread, I am also fascinated by one other thing…
How many truck drivers, when driving a normal car, have ever been pulled by VOSA for a tacho check?
Just asking 
joemaxi:
We were told that after 15 hours,if you can`t get back to base,then you stay with your truck.Apparently the laws changed last year and you can`t even travel passenger to return home.
I could be wrong…
Laws didn’t change last year regarding travelling home, it has been this way for years.
DT@Leightonhaul:
OK so if i found myself in scenario A,but instead of going home in the company car i drove back to base & then drove my own car home & the other driver drove the truck back to base where would that leave me??
With an infringment.
aranger:
If they send two drivers out one for the car and one for your truck then you jumped in the bunk that might be o/k but as above what if its a day cab.
Not legal as you cannot take daily rest in a moving vehicle so you aren’t on rest in this scenario.
DT@Leightonhaul:
Ahah!!! I see now!!! If after 15 hours i drove a car back to base then thats still work & a big no no,however if i run out of driving hours then i can still drive a car back to base so
Yes, provided you still had duty time left you can drive the car back as it would count as other work and not driving.
kitkat:
What about this Scenario.We know that the driver is out of time [ 15 hrs used up ].The company send out a car with 2 driver’s in it,1 driver will then return the truck to depot [Hatfield] the other driver will then take the original driver by car and drop him at his house in Luton.The car then returns to depot at Hatfield.The original driver has either his daily rest or weekly rest and then returns to work at Hatfield after his rest period is over.legal or illegal
Not legal. The time spent being driven home will count as other work so the driver will exceed 15 hours duty for the day and be unable to complete a rest period in the 24-hour period.
delboytwo:
you can not drive to base or be taken to base you most go home and also if you worked from 6.00am till 9.00pm you must be at base by 9.00 pm if you are not the you may make your own way home or a driver would bring you a car to take home not go to base
You can only go home if you are returning to the same place to resume work in the morning, otherwise you are not on rest while travelling and will therefore be having insufficient daily rest.
ROG:
So if another driver in a car was to meet you away from base at ‘A’ then you can drive that car home but must drive it back to ‘A’ to resume your next shift in the SAME truck.
In the meantime, the driver that came in the car can do what they like with that truck but the company must make sure it is back at ‘A’ by the time you start the next shift.I think I got that correct.
You didn’t. It doesn’t have to be the same truck, or even a truck of any kind. The driver will just have to return there to resume work at which point he can get in any vehicle to go where ever.
andy187:
Mike-C:
delboytwo:
please note you can only do 2 15 hour days between two rest periodsMake that three.
make that 5…
Make that 6 with the split daily rest option 
MacDoog:
Correct but by taking a split daily rest the total would be a 12 hour daily rest. The first period of at least 3 hours and the second period at 9 hours. ( I think it used to be 3 and 8 )
4 and 8 with the 4 either one lump or in 2 parts with no part less than 1 hour.
MacDoog:
If the driver has run out of DUTY time then he will not be allowed to even drive a company car anywhere as hes run out of DUTY time and by driving that company vehicle it would be classed as other work. However if another driver bought the original drivers car for him to use to travel freely in then thats ok!!!
If he commences his rest period when he parks up and there is a car available for him to use to dispose of his time as he sees fit then he can use it, the owner of the vehicle is irrelevant. The whole - ‘You can’t drive a company vehicle’ thing is a red herring and has no bearing on this question, which is all about taking sufficient daily rest and nothing more.
MacDoog:
The original driver would be able to pick up the truck from the operators premises as long as he has had his daily rest at the time he arrives at the yard.
No he wouldn’t because then the time he spent driving home will be classed as other work and he will have gone over 15 hours duty and therefore be unable to take sufficient daily rest.
MacDoog:
If the vehicle were to be left at the original stop location then travelling to that location would be classed as otherwork and would be included in the total duty time.
Not necessarily. The driver parked the vehicle, spent 9 hours on rest and resumed from the same spot. What he did during that time is his business and if he used the time to go somewhere and come back then it is still rest. So in this case the returning to the vehicle will not be other work.