mac12:
Never happen with haulage think off all the tears and tantrums off the drivers as some other driver takes there truck out
That would depend on whether you shared with an ignorant minger with zero manners or social skills, or a decent lad who kept and left ‘your’ motor as he found it, works ok for me on my 3 off.
Don’t know why you’re even discussing this, there is no chance of Corbyn, Abbot,.and the rest of those clowns getting in to [zb] up the country in any case.
I do 4on-4off, and share the same truck with the same driver. We both dont smoke, and clean out the truck properly (dash polish, floor clean etc) at the end of our shift. We both keep some gear (cooking etc) in a drawer and locker each, but we can trust each other.
albion:
Going back to my employee days and driving abroad, I got annoyed enpughbat being weekender for 2 days. 3 days even worse. I dont have holidays, goingvaway for pleasure isnt pleasure to me.
The devil is in the detail, isn`t it?
4 days work, then park up abroad for the next 3, would be crazy. An average of 4 days taken over 6 months, or a year…different kettle of fish.
More broadly, heres a few figures: [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_annual_labor_hours_in_OECD_countries) The UK works more hours (1676) than Germany (1363) or France (1472) but their economies arent exactly on their knees are they?
Microsoft in Japan experimented with a 4 day week, for same pay, with no productivity loss. theguardian.com/technology/ … oductivity
.
Could I drive a truck as far in 4 days as I do in 5?
Maybe not so. But looking at the whole work world through our transport window isnt wise. And a change in other industrial work practices will influence us. Especially if it occurs through legislation, so poor employers cant make up for their bad management by expecting too much from workers.
I was expressing a personal preference in regards to a specific job.
Personally you can have a 3 day week for all I care. No idea about France and Germany but Japan’s efficiency derives from their enthusiastic adoption of robotics and tech primarily. Possibly the same with Germany in so far as the seem to take a long term view on investment, whereas the UK and UK business is very short term.
albion:
Personally you can have a 3 day week for all I care. No idea about France and Germany but Japan’s efficiency derives from their enthusiastic adoption of robotics and tech primarily. Possibly the same with Germany in so far as the seem to take a long term view on investment, whereas the UK and UK business is very short term.
How does automation fix anything.Given a mindset that the resulting redundant workforce,being paid to enjoy an early retirement,from the work of the robots,is unacceptable.
So we will want to earn the same money by working 4 days and yet the employer will want to pay the same money for the same amount of work done / deliveries made.
For the owner driver there is the delight of seeing their vehicle parked up incurring costs doing nothing for 3/7ths of the week. Or they employer someone or break the law!!!
I seem to recall france had a significant challenge when they reduced the hours.
A 4 day week doesnt need to be set, theres overtime available.
Its possible mobile workers wont be included
The drop in wages would be catastrophic for many drivers/warehouse staff etc If the wage didnt meet the drop in hours…But as a driver, and if that was the contract, he could choose to wok what hours he wanted over the 40 hours, or choose not to…BUT as we know, a contract would usually state that drivers must be prepared to work as and when required, according to company schedules. If it worked out it would be a basic wage of ■■?.+ hours worked over 40 hours + nights out, dont think many hauliers could afford the huge jump in wages.
Winseer:
Funny how firms are so reluctant to offer us 4x12 hour contracts eh?
The companies operating 7 days a week would love to operate a 4 on 4 off schedule but unfortunately a lot of their drivers refuse to work the part and full weekends that would be required.
That’s not the only way you can do a four day week…
Assuming say, Friday is the busiest day - what’s wrong with say, Tuesday-Friday for one block of workers, and Friday to Monday for the other block.
Problem then is you’d need twice as many trucks on a friday as rest of week unless you stagger their shifts but then that opens a world of problems of its own
albion:
Personally you can have a 3 day week for all I care. No idea about France and Germany but Japan’s efficiency derives from their enthusiastic adoption of robotics and tech primarily. Possibly the same with Germany in so far as the seem to take a long term view on investment, whereas the UK and UK business is very short term.
How does automation fix anything.Given a mindset that the resulting redundant workforce,being paid to enjoy an early retirement,from the work of the robots,is unacceptable.
I’m talking about Japan currently. They have low immigration and low birth rate, so they need to automate. What happens when they automate themselves out of jobs is crystal ball territory.
mac12:
Never happen with haulage think off all the tears and tantrums off the drivers as some other driver takes there truck out
That would depend on whether you shared with an ignorant minger with zero manners or social skills, or a decent lad who kept and left ‘your’ motor as he found it, works ok for me on my 3 off.
Don’t know why you’re even discussing this, there is no chance of Corbyn, Abbot,.and the rest of those clowns getting in to [zb] up the country in any case.
I do 4on-4off, and share the same truck with the same driver. We both dont smoke, and clean out the truck properly (dash polish, floor clean etc) at the end of our shift. We both keep some gear (cooking etc) in a drawer and locker each, but we can trust each other.
That’s how it works with us, though I’m happy as a floater. They are quite good at pairing people up I’ve found.
Winseer:
Funny how firms are so reluctant to offer us 4x12 hour contracts eh?
The companies operating 7 days a week would love to operate a 4 on 4 off schedule but unfortunately a lot of their drivers refuse to work the part and full weekends that would be required.
That’s not the only way you can do a four day week…
Assuming say, Friday is the busiest day - what’s wrong with say, Tuesday-Friday for one block of workers, and Friday to Monday for the other block?
Everyone is in every friday that way… Variations can be made to suit ANY “busiest day” of course…
I’d JUMP at the chance of a Friday-Monday contract starting around 6 & 8pm… I’m sure there would be no shortage of Tuesday-Friday takers, neither…
You are forgetting the fact that the four day week wouldn’t just be for drivers, it’d be for our customers as well.
In the unlikely event this ever happened we would likely see Fridays become part of the weekend and Mon-Thurs the ‘working week’. Current Mon-Fri businesses & operations would all be shut on Friday, so the “how do we cover Friday” question isn’t of any concern.
The real question is how haulage firms that don’t operate 7 days make a decent profit with the wagons parked up idle for another day a week, whilst presumably still paying drivers what they are on now. Rates would have to go up considerably.
I worked in a factory forty years ago with a four day week. (4x10 hour shifts). Day shift start Mon 07.30 finish at 18.00 .Finish on Thurs at 18.00. I liked it.
Acorn:
So we will want to earn the same money by working 4 days and yet the employer will want to pay the same money for the same amount of work done / deliveries made.
For the owner driver there is the delight of seeing their vehicle parked up incurring costs doing nothing for 3/7ths of the week. Or they employer someone or break the law!!!
I seem to recall france had a significant challenge when they reduced the hours.
No 4 on 4 off is based on two workers working 4 days each which includes weekends.Not one working 4 days out of a 7 day week.So the owner driver can actually work the vehicle 7 days a week instead of having to park it up for weekly rest periods.Or even two owner drivers sharing the purchase and running costs of one vehicle between them.What’s not to like.
alamcculloch:
I worked in a factory forty years ago with a four day week. (4x10 hour shifts). Day shift start Mon 07.30 finish at 18.00 .Finish on Thurs at 18.00. I liked it.
The plan was firstly a 37 hour 5 day week gradually reducing to a 32 hour 4 day week.It takes a special mindset to be able to handle factory or other types of ‘inside’ work and 4 days would have been as bad as 5 for me.It’s one which I could never get my head round and even during my school days I often went home at lunch time and didn’t go back in the afternoons.From memory we only had a roll call in the first period in the mornings.I’m sure that without that and being put out on the road driving within a couple of years of starting in the factory I’d have probably ended up with clinical depression.Ironically my father was the opposite his dad was a driver but my dad didn’t want that and worked as an engineer for most of his life other than being employed as a driver during his military service.Then seemed unable to understand why I didn’t want to follow him.
Why are so many of you determined to try to hold on to longer working hours, when others are showing how unnecessary this is?
Investment in our industries, benefiting all of the country, rather than sucking profits out for a wealthy few, is an easy enough concept.
So long as too many listen to the "poor boss: doesnt know where his next yacht is coming from" propaganda of the Tory press well stay stuck here.
alamcculloch:
I worked in a factory forty years ago with a four day week. (4x10 hour shifts). Day shift start Mon 07.30 finish at 18.00 .Finish on Thurs at 18.00. I liked it.
And I can see how it would work from a productivity sense.
We all know how these places work; Shift starts at 6am - 6.15 by the time anythings happening. Wind up & wind down either side of dinner, 1.30 everything slows as staff wind down for the 2pm finish. Probably a good hours lost productivity everyday, so your up on productivity straight away by squashing all the hours into 4 days before you take into account the extra rest staff are getting from a long weekend.
The four day working week is a good concept that could be made to work, but we always seem be fighting against those determined to cling onto long working hours. Working conditions and work/life balance is one area we should be looking to align ourselves as closely as possible with many areas of Europe on, not aspiring to buddy up with the USA - home of long hours and 10 days annual leave.
rob22888:
And I can see how it would work from a productivity sense.
We all know how these places work; Shift starts at 6am - 6.15 by the time anythings happening. Wind up & wind down either side of dinner, 1.30 everything slows as staff wind down for the 2pm finish. Probably a good hours lost productivity everyday, so your up on productivity straight away by squashing all the hours into 4 days before you take into account the extra rest staff are getting from a long weekend.
The four day working week is a good concept that could be made to work, but we always seem be fighting against those determined to cling onto long working hours. Working conditions and work/life balance is one area we should be looking to align ourselves as closely as possible with many areas of Europe on, not aspiring to buddy up with the USA - home of long hours and 10 days annual leave.
The Europe in question is actually more aligned with the German work ethic than the French one which are in no way the same things.
While no don’t remember any ‘wind up’ or ‘wind down’ in factory work.The only winding up time I ever had was warming up my cold overalls over a gas cutter flame in the 10-15 minutes between clocking in and actual start time IE my own time.Lunch break was a case of keeping an eye on the clock so as to down tools on time not too soon or too late and to get back to the job on time.In a factory you’re under constant management surveillance and they aren’t in the business of paying people not to be working.
rob22888:
The real question is how haulage firms that don’t operate 7 days make a decent profit with the wagons parked up idle for another day a week, whilst presumably still paying drivers what they are on now. Rates would have to go up considerably.
I’m not immediately clear which fixed costs require the wagon to be run 7 days a week.
The wagon will mostly last for a fixed mileage, rather than a fixed time, so running it half the week will make it last twice as long. Fuel and insurance/road risk are also related to mileage. The driver’s wages are hourly.
Other than minor fixed administrative costs, virtually the only fixed cost is that which is imposed by the commercial landlord for the rent of the operating premises (or the mortgage lender for lending the capital to purchase).
Naturally, the rentier wants everyone working as many hours as possible, because sweating fixed assets like land (that is, increasing the amount of activity occuring on the land over a given period of time) allows him to increase rents and cream more for himself.
But the rentier is an unproductive factor, so he can easily be assaulted or even purged entirely from the economy if we want to reduce our working hours, without any loss in actual productivity or living standards.
Winseer:
Funny how firms are so reluctant to offer us 4x12 hour contracts eh?
The companies operating 7 days a week would love to operate a 4 on 4 off schedule but unfortunately a lot of their drivers refuse to work the part and full weekends that would be required.
That’s not the only way you can do a four day week…
Assuming say, Friday is the busiest day - what’s wrong with say, Tuesday-Friday for one block of workers, and Friday to Monday for the other block?
Everyone is in every friday that way… Variations can be made to suit ANY “busiest day” of course…
I’d JUMP at the chance of a Friday-Monday contract starting around 6 & 8pm… I’m sure there would be no shortage of Tuesday-Friday takers, neither…
You are forgetting the fact that the four day week wouldn’t just be for drivers, it’d be for our customers as well.
In the unlikely event this ever happened we would likely see Fridays become part of the weekend and Mon-Thurs the ‘working week’. Current Mon-Fri businesses & operations would all be shut on Friday, so the “how do we cover Friday” question isn’t of any concern.
The real question is how haulage firms that don’t operate 7 days make a decent profit with the wagons parked up idle for another day a week, whilst presumably still paying drivers what they are on now. Rates would have to go up considerably.
In a 24/7 operation - I’d say that overlapping 4 day week blocks - is the way to go.
Can the alternative that is “firms avoiding paying weekend premiums” ever motivate people otherwise to want to work as close to Monday-Friday 9-5 as possible?
