Juddian:
I’d love to have an ETS again, or a 13 speed fuller, even a Roadranger, though preferably behind a proper ■■■■■■■■
The 13 speed fuller is a ‘roadranger’.There was only one ‘proper’ ■■■■■■■ but it probably didn’t get into any Brit commercials but it did get into a few fire trucks although as usual smoke output exceeded power output . 
14ltr ■■■■■■■ was more than a match for a v8 scania especially with the faster gearshift of a 13speed fuller.
I used to be a h&s rep for our drivers and the daftest requests always came from the screwdrivers. Toolboxes for dirty gloves instead of shoving them in the door pocket, calls to ban getting in the tipping bodies, auto tailgates which we’re still meant to get out and clean after locking in a safety pin (just as quick with the old type after faffing about). I gave up the h&s rep job in the end after the worst teararses made the most noise about our load bonus scheme.
Bored with this lot - move on
kr79:
14ltr ■■■■■■■ was more than a match for a v8 scania especially with the faster gearshift of a 13speed fuller.
Wash your mouth out
I whopped the arse of a 144 530 through the canyon on the a2 many times with a foden 4500 and I was freighted to at least 48 ton.
A fuller would smash through the gears and keep it singing all day.
Mention of gearboxes and all the other stuff that is looked down upon by some members actually proves the OP correct 
All the remarks about looking back through rose tinted glasses and being stuck in the dark ages proves that point. Not so long ago a lorry driver had to do quite a lot of work besides driving, then came the driving itself, not only the gearboxes, but lorries with terrible brakes, no power and few, if any, luxuries, sure they moaned about things, but by and large they enjoyed being a lorry driver.
Contrast that with some of the drivers of today, they turn up to work, slot a card into a slot, punch some details into the sat nav, stick into drive and away they go, they get to a delivery, back on a bay/open the curtains, sit in a little room listening to some loudmouth and do the same day in and day out. they moan if they haven’t got a supermegatoptrotterxxl, they moan if they have to work more than 10hrs a day, they moan if they have to actually do anything but steer their lorry.
That’s why there is a big difference between a driver and a licence holder, the job has been dumbded down to the extent that any idiot can do it (if you’re looking at this on your phone in an RDC waiting room, look to your left and right to confirm that I’m correct) so much so that you can now be called a lorry driver just because you drive a lorry. That’s wrong, driving the lorry is the easy part, it’s the rest of it that makes you a lorry driver, things like knowing how to change gear in any lorry you’re driving
Spot on Newmercman.
Drivers wanting easy life have contributed in no small measure to the state of our industry.
newmercman:
it’s the rest of it that makes you a lorry driver, things like knowing how to change gear in any lorry you’re driving
Thats easy mate, just select ‘D’. Truck does the rest.
newmercman:
Mention of gearboxes and all the other stuff that is looked down upon by some members actually proves the OP correctAll the remarks about looking back through rose tinted glasses and being stuck in the dark ages proves that point. Not so long ago a lorry driver had to do quite a lot of work besides driving, then came the driving itself, not only the gearboxes, but lorries with terrible brakes, no power and few, if any, luxuries, sure they moaned about things, but by and large they enjoyed being a lorry driver.
Contrast that with some of the drivers of today, they turn up to work, slot a card into a slot, punch some details into the sat nav, stick into drive and away they go, they get to a delivery, back on a bay/open the curtains, sit in a little room listening to some loudmouth and do the same day in and day out. they moan if they haven’t got a supermegatoptrotterxxl, they moan if they have to work more than 10hrs a day, they moan if they have to actually do anything but steer their lorry.
That’s why there is a big difference between a driver and a licence holder, the job has been dumbded down to the extent that any idiot can do it (if you’re looking at this on your phone in an RDC waiting room, look to your left and right to confirm that I’m correct) so much so that you can now be called a lorry driver just because you drive a lorry. That’s wrong, driving the lorry is the easy part, it’s the rest of it that makes you a lorry driver, things like knowing how to change gear in any lorry you’re driving
Spot on Mark my driving life is easy with my new Volvo with i shift. It ain’t RDCs I deal with been there and hated it. But my boss pays a few doHllars more for the drivers who can think for there selves and that’s the difference between drivers and attendants but leave my I shift alone as even though I’ve spent enough time with fullers I like the easy life in traffic. 
Mike C, you don’t count, that a scouser can get out of bed and go to work is a miracle in itself, so expecting more would be a waste of time
I have no problem with I-Shift, I’m glad things have changed for the better, but that only goes for the lorries, as they’ve got better the attitude of drivers has got worse, even to the point that they moan about automated manuals when they approach roundabouts or a light suddenly changes to green and they need to get on the loud pedal again, the ‘useless’ gearbox doesn’t know what to do As you said Kev, they need a bit of manual assistance every now and then
The job has changed for the worse too, it’s easy to blame H&S or whatever else, but really the only ones to blame are the people doing the job, if they weren’t such a bunch of [zb]wits with a bad attitude then we may not get treated like [zb]wits with bad attitudes and wouldn’t be given a set of do’s and don’t’s at every place we visit
I’m not for one minute suggesting that we start handballing our loads on and off, or start roping and sheeting again, nor should we sleep across the seats wrapped up in our de-mob suits, but I’m suggesting that we stop expecting to be wrapped up in cotton wool and have someone wiping our arses all the time 
newmercman:
Mike C, you don’t count, that a scouser can get out of bed and go to work is a miracle in itself, so expecting more would be a waste of timeI have no problem with I-Shift, I’m glad things have changed for the better, but that only goes for the lorries, as they’ve got better the attitude of drivers has got worse, even to the point that they moan about automated manuals when they approach roundabouts or a light suddenly changes to green and they need to get on the loud pedal again, the ‘useless’ gearbox doesn’t know what to do
The job has changed for the worse too, it’s easy to blame H&S or whatever else, but really the only ones to blame are the people doing the job, if they weren’t such a bunch of [zb]wits with a bad attitude then we may not get treated like [zb]wits with bad attitudes and wouldn’t be given a set of do’s and don’t’s at every place we visit
I’m not for one minute suggesting that we start handballing our loads on and off, or start roping and sheeting again, nor should we sleep across the seats wrapped up in our de-mob suits, but I’m suggesting that we stop expecting to be wrapped up in cotton wool and have someone wiping our arses all the time
Jobs gone to the dogs, everythings harder now even though we’ve got easier trucks to drive. Its a job in its self to get anything off the back for yourself now, that how bad (or good) security has got !!!
What happened to job perks !!! No perks, no runing repairs either, where’s the incentive ? Change your own bulbs !!
Quite honestly I’ll never understand how so many can make such an easy job seem so hard. I must be doing something wrong
newmercman:
Mike C, you don’t count, that a scouser can get out of bed and go to work is a miracle in itself, so expecting more would be a waste of timeI have no problem with I-Shift, I’m glad things have changed for the better, but that only goes for the lorries, as they’ve got better the attitude of drivers has got worse, even to the point that they moan about automated manuals when they approach roundabouts or a light suddenly changes to green and they need to get on the loud pedal again, the ‘useless’ gearbox doesn’t know what to do
I think you’re being a bit unfair there nmm.It’s easy to understand how automation can come into conflict with the drivers as opposed to the licence holders in that type of example.Either automation can do the job as good or it can’t and the fact that it can’t isn’t the fault of the drivers.Contrary to your view I’d say that anyone calling the thing a useless piece of junk in that situation is more likely to be one of the drivers than the licence holders.I can always remember when I was getting familiarised with the Allison and moaning like zb at the useless waste of space boat anchor that where I’d be lifting on upshifts and matching the revs to road speed on downshifts I couldn’t because that just ain’t the way the thing works.
So upshifts were all done under power and dowshifts were all done on the overrun and with 1,800 lbs ft of torque going through the driveline on the upshifts and with massive great wide gaps between ratios each upshift and downshift was like WW3 with the engine and box trying to tear themselves out of their mountings. 
The fact that I moaned about that situation and the reasoning for it was actually something that the senior drivers held in my favour and the automated manuals obviously seem to have a similar type of weakness in at least sorting out the timing of downshifts to make sure the thing is in the right gear well before it’s needed to pull away again which at least wasn’t one of the problems with the semi auto versions of the Allison because the designers knew that the thing couldn’t do that job either.
That’s not the drivers’ fault especially if it’s a driver who doesn’t want the thing anyway because he could do the job better with a decent box if the guvnor specced it instead of just pandering to the licence holders or the ones who never get out of the City in which case getting moaned at for not helping the thing out is just adding insult to injury.However the obvious way to sort that problem with the i shift would be to make it so that all downshifts have to be carried out using manual override inputs permanently which would remove all the confusion.
Say what? I’m just a licence holder, I have no idea what you just said.
I’d like to introduce you to my friend Comma. He can help you make your rants easier to read. Carryfast meet Comma, Comma meet Carryfast.
I hope this helps.
Now you’re just arguing for the sake of argument
I-Shift and its competitors gives a perfect shift 99% of the time, it’s one of the reasons why they’re so popular with fleet owners and also pushed by manufacurers who offer R&M deals, much less chance of driveline related problems if the box shifts sweetly everytime
The point I was making was that there have been many threads/posts on here about how bad the automated manuals are when you want to ■■■■■■ a quick gear, like at a roundabout or a light that turns green before you expect it to. that is from licence holders, a proper driver would understand that the gearbox cannot see into the future, it reacts to the input from the sensors on the driveline, a proper driver would also have anticipated the green light or clear entry to the roundabout and already switched into manual to account for the possibility that it may happen
Just driving around with the clog on the carpet expecting the machine to overcome your inadequacies is not being a lorry driver
Carryfast a Allison gearbox fitted to a dustcart is totally different to I shift which uses its computer control to assess lots of thing such as engine load weight even down to driving style and 99% of the time it will select the correct gear but say your climbing a steel hill and it levels off it may change up but as a driver you can see its got another steep climb in a few feet you hold it in the same gear. The steering wheel attendant lets the auto do its thing and then moans because the truck has a hissy fit deciding what gear to be in and may end up losing a lot more speed than it would have by the driver intervening.
kr79:
Carryfast a Allison gearbox fitted to a fire truck is totally different to I shift which uses its computer control to assess lots of thing such as engine load weight even down to driving style and 99% of the time it will select the correct gear but say your climbing a steel hill and it levels off it may change up but as a driver you can see its got another steep climb in a few feet you hold it in the same gear. The steering wheel attendant lets the auto do its thing and then moans because the truck has a hissy fit deciding what gear to be in and may end up losing a lot more speed than it would have by the driver intervening.
Fixed that. 
Ironically it was the semi auto spec of the Allison,in which all shifts had to be manually actuated,that was the adavantage over that issue which the automated manual boxes seem to have,in which they seem to be auto with manual override which can obviously result in it being in auto mode when manual is needed.Whereas if they were like that type ofAllison the issue wouldn’t arise because all shifts are held and only made when the driver calls for them.
Which then just leaves all the bad issues which the Allison has.Those being that it’s a torque converter and auto gear train type boat anchor as opposed to it being a decent constant mesh with a clutch type so it costs loads in power losses and as I said doesn’t match revs to road speed on downshifts or lift between upshifts.
Therefore the idea of a semi automated manual,in which the driver just calls for the shifts without the full auto option, seems to be the best of all worlds in that regard and would obviously be a lot cheaper in being able to do away with a lot of the computer requirements needed at present too,which obviously can’t do the job of actually deciding ‘when’ to make the shift all the time every time correctly anyway,although they can probably do the actual job of ‘making’ the shift,when it’s called for,better than the licence holders can.
Which just leaves the problem of if the licence holders aren’t up to knowing when to use manual override on the current set up they probably won’t be much good at deciding when and which gear they need to be in anyway either. So it’s catch 22.
I’ll just settle for the roadranger thanks.Although having said that an automated manual fuller would have been perfect for that application of the fire truck to replace the Allison being that it would have been a lot easier to install that on a truck in which the gearbox is around 30 feet behind the cab than a roadranger would have been while still being able to suit the licence holders better just like the Allison.
By your own admission you haven’t driven a truck for around 15 years and then it was a job that was 95% down the motorway in top gear so you commenting on automated gearboxes is like me going on a BMX forum and preaching about the latest bikes despite me not having riden a BMX since 1992.
kr79:
By your own admission you haven’t driven a truck for around 15 years and then it was a job that was 95% down the motorway in top gear so you commenting on automated gearboxes is like me going on a BMX forum and preaching about the latest bikes despite me not having riden a BMX since 1992.
There were a few hills on those motorways though and running on A roads and through towns to get to the depots and I used a lot more than just top on that brilliant old constant mesh ZF in the 2800.Just as well because with that the more practice the better.