Jim my Seddon had a AV 470 AEC engine it was ex BRS Gosforth/Harrogate. Then a plant hire chap in Abergele had her. She stud in a field by the A55
for a while the kids broke the glass and someone nicked the rad (brass) then I got hold of her.I have a photo of her but she looks very sad.
I think most of that model had a AEC engine if it was ordered by BRS.This one is in Rush green
John
Hello Jim,
Seddons of this era could be had with a ■■■■■■■ 180, 205 or 220 and AEC AV760 engines as well as the Gardener and later the RR Eagle in fact Seddons were one of the first companies to offer a ■■■■■■■ in there 8 wheelers and heavy artics in 1958 but in a lower power rating. As a point of interest the first I heard of the ■■■■■■■ and its performance was when I was on Inter-City and there was talk of two new Scottish Co-op Foden 8 wheelers that were out pulling everything on the road…Tony.
Cheers for those Seddon pics lads, I often wonder why I never got a photo of my old man’s C reg (1965) Seddon, during the time he had it from new I went all over with him until having to start work 1968/9 myself, reduced the opportunities. I might have mentioned it before on here but he was also chuffed with the wagon as it was the first rated at 32 ton the company bought and I remember probably one of the few around at the time as it created some interest, of course he coudn’t pull that weight (not legally anyway) until the law changed allowing two axled units with tandem trailers at 32 ton but could pull a triaxle, something I didn’t realise he had done until he told me quite a while after retirement, I think these were DFDS trailers coming over from the continent.
Anyway this motor had the 150 Gardner and previous Seddon’s the company had were AEC engined and at a lower GCW, infact he used to tell the tale of one of these new Seddon’s turning up while he was on holiday and his mate grabbed it, Dad wasn’t too pleased as he was promised the next new one, however the boss placated him by saying there was another coming soon and it was definately his. It brought great amusement to him when the 32 ton job turned up and his mate realised he’d dropped a clanger going for the AEC engined 28 ton unit.
He also said how well the Gardner pulled, and we know what they lacked in speed they made up for in pulling power, one day later they both loaded on the Quayside 20 ton just to go up to the warehouse and the other Seddon developed a starter fault so they chained them together and Dad pulled the lot away in crawler but was surprised that he could change up a gear, after that he said he had confidence going anywhere with it fully loaded as going over Shap and Standedge were regular runs then. It wasn’t all good though, he hated the 41 mph limit it had and the almost non existant heater, I though couldn’t find a fault with it, you had to crow bar me out the passenger seat! I’ve added a pic below of what the motor would have looked like by tweaking a photo on the PC of a similar liveried Seddon, when I came across this postcard photo I thought it was so similar it was uncanny. Oh and I think only the Gardner engined types seemed to have the double air vent on the front, don’t know why though! Franky.
.
The two vent question is easy the vent on the drivers side was for the driver. The no vent on the drivers mates side means the mate did’nt need a warm.
SERIOUSLY two vents ;;; one each heater but two heaters was more expensive so only one heater was fitted standard.i bet you only find one vent on BRS units.
I think the question about engines the early ■■■■■■■ 180 was really bad on fuel. I worked at ERF and the word on a 1966 road test was IICR was under 4 MPG.
Gardner/AEC/ Leyland engines was prefered due to better fuel consumption.I think you’ll find Heavy haulage and specialest movements prefered the ■■■■■■■ power.The 205/220 ■■■■■■■ was heavy on fuel if not driven properly. Then came along the 250 which was an improvement. The 290 big cam would fly but was thirsty then over 325 bhp the ■■■■■■■ was better deal on fuel but needed to be set up correctly.They also made more powerful engines as GVW got up to the 44 ton mark
John
Alex Houston of ■■■■■■■ is a blast from the past.I used to see them on the A76 between Kilmarnock and Dumfries sometimes accompanied by Moores Motors of Ayr with their Scammell Highwaymen.They were regulars in SPT Sheffield backloading billets for Scottish Stampings in Ayr.There is another Houston in that area isn’t there,did milk haulage IIRC?
We all see those bulled up modern wagons about nowadays,you know 500 odd BHP and 56 mph things.Well,just to show that old Albions got fettled now and again here’s a photo of my mate cleaning the Axminster carpets out of his six-legger.Talbot Transport Sheffield late 50s.
And he’s still a fussy bugger now 
Then he got this Austin 6-legger.Loaded with drums of ferrochrome for Corby,outside his house,probably fiddling and away early in t’morning - shocking 
Same motor in Firth Browns Sheffield,one drop by the looks of it.
Then he went really upmarket and got an LAD Albion Reiver
He pleads “not guilty” to this though
Ah, the Albion Reiver 6x4, you had to be very careful of the tyre wear, and consequently size of tyres, between the two axles on the drive, if for instance you fitted a new tyre to the rear drive you were likely to find your rear end was on fire, the lorry that is, after about 50 miles or less, they were that sensitive and it would cause a terrific heat build up.
Tony.
Chris Webb:
We all see those bulled up modern wagons about nowadays,you know 500 odd BHP and 56 mph things.Well,just to show that old Albions got fettled now and again here’s a photo of my mate cleaning the Axminster carpets out of his six-legger.Talbot Transport Sheffield late 50s.
And he’s still a fussy bugger now
Then he got this Austin 6-legger.Loaded with drums of ferrochrome for Corby,outside his house,probably fiddling and away early in t’morning - shocking
Same motor in Firth Browns Sheffield,one drop by the looks of it.
Then he went really upmarket and got an LAD Albion Reiver
He pleads “not guilty” to this though
Hi Chris,
Some real interesting pics there mate,its nice to see some six wheelers on here,they were thought of as big lorries in there day.
Cheers Dave.
This was taken maybe four years later near our school - another tipper made a mess of a nice old Derbyshire stone-built bridge - couldn’t get drivers even then
Chris Webb:
This was taken maybe four years later near our school - another tipper made a mess of a nice old Derbyshire stone-built bridge - couldn’t get drivers even then
Bet you and your mates made a slide on that bridge Chris,causing the poor tipper driver to lose control.
Cheers Dave.
Dave the Renegade:
Chris Webb:
This was taken maybe four years later near our school - another tipper made a mess of a nice old Derbyshire stone-built bridge - couldn’t get drivers even then
Bet you and your mates made a slide on that bridge Chris,causing the poor tipper driver to lose control.
Cheers Dave.
Well,it was along time ago so you could be right Dave.
Flatman and myself have racked our brains trying to identify that Albion tipper on the bridge to no avail.Could be from Notts,Derbys,Cheshire,Yorks or Lancs.It’s Calver,on the main road from Chesterfield to Stockport,A623 over Peak Forest where Mullans used to shove each other over the hills
That tipper body could be a clue - like a smaller version of Hansons maybe?
.
Well Jim, you’ve been spoiled with all this modern stuff, prior to the introduction of the 6 bhp per ton law which was after I had left the road, there was no power weight rules, if the engine could move it “Take it away Drive” was the order of the day. Until the introduction of the 150 bhp 6LX Gardner in about 1958 the engine normaly fitted to Atkinson, ERF, Foden etc was the 6LW with 112 bhp and this use to power anything including 8 wheeler and trailers and a lot of Schammel heavy haulage motors, most AEC Mammoth Majors had the 9.6 @ 124 bhp unless you were lucky and had the 11.3 @ 150 bhp, the Leyland 600 powered most Octopuses with the 24 cab this was 9.8 and 124 bhp some Beavers had the 680 this was 11 ltrs and 150 bhp. All these would normaly be fitted with a 5 speed box including crawler. When you start talking about the mishmash of light vehicles being used as heavys the situation was even worst with soppy little engines that could rev but lacked torque, i.e. Thames Traders, Bedfords, Commers and BMC’s hooked up to the unstable 4 in line or tandem trailers with 16 ton or more on and the same motors with chassis extensions and a third axle added (sometimes in house) which would have to be flung at a hill and hope you don’t get baulked, so on nights, the likes of Halls of Bury with their Commer two strokes loaded with paper and Deards with their Thames Traders etc. would fly past you on the flat as you were flat out at 40 if you had a good’un but as soon as they hit a pimple you would fly past them, of course their brakes were not heavy duty either. It must be remembered there were no plated weights only gross weights as far as the law went which was 14t for a 4 wheeler, 20t for a 6 wheeler including an Artic, 24t for an 8 wheeler including an Artic ( a 4 in line was classed as a two axle trailer) and 32t gross for a Waggon and Trailer. The makers like Ford, Bedford, Rootes and BMC used to call their motors 10 tonners etc. but the owner called it what he liked and all Companys broke the weight laws on occasions including BRS, just look at any Bristol, Leyland Beaver or AEC Mandator etc units hooked to a twin axle trailer, the haulier would class this as a combination to load 16t which meant that these units with their trailers, with their rope and sheets, Driver etc had to tare out at 8 ton, but with the heavy motors just mentioned this was impossible, but a Thames Trader hooked to a BTC 4 in line it might just be possible, but I know what the safer combination was just an example of legislation penalising the far safer and better combination…Tony.
Hello All,
Another question, but on much the same subject; Having recently read the article about the 8x4 (8x2?) Bedford TK in New Zealand I got to thinking, were these additional axles available Ex-Works from Bedford or did they all go somewhere else (Primrose or whoever) for conversion prior to delivery? Following on from Stravaiger’s question, what were the manufacturer / dealers attitudes to these conversions? Warranty?
Perhaps somebody can remember?
Thanks, Andrew
stravaiger:
Chris Webb:
We all see those bulled up modern wagons about nowadays,you know 500 odd BHP and 56 mph things…
…Then he got this Austin 6-legger… in Firth Browns Sheffield,one drop by the looks of it.
Chris this follows on from the question Iv’e been asking Tony and John of the power plants in relation to the legal gross weight in the Seddon in particular but now it can be generalised. Prior to the 6 bhp per ton introduced late 70s was there a minimum output? Take your pals Austin for example was it expected to work at 20 ton? with the same engine as a 4 wheeler at 14 ton. must have been a hard days work
Had never thought too much about these things but thinking back to around '76 I had a short spell (Even shorter than intended) on a Bedford KM 6 wheeler with the same 143bhp power pack as the bosses 4 wheelers had and I think I just assumed it was a Bedford thing and a throwback in thinking to Bedfords 50% extra claim over the years. I was blaming myself initially when it “Blew Up” on the Motorway. Turns out it had taken a roasting with the regular driver weeks earlier. The point is did they just graft an extra axle on and carry on as before? And were the manufacturers in agreement with this practice? I take it that’s more than one question nowI do like value for money.
Oh dear Jim, you’ve got me going now, you’ll have to tell me to shut up, anyway when I was on Suttons some of his first Artics were York tandems and singles which were pulled sometimes by Leyland Comet Units, well these Yorks which used to have a flat cross member across the back, well on the tandems and iirc. some of the singles this cross member was allways bent inwards in the centre due to the fact that the Comets would be in trouble on Shap at night with a 16 ton load of Dulux paint or some other load on the back so where ever possible they would run with an Atki 8 wheeler with its mighty 112 bhp Gardner 6LW which were all fitted with a shunt bar on the front which handily was of the right height and this would push the struggling Comet up and over Shap which of course caused the dent on the rear of the trailer…Tony.
I remember Sloan buying two of the first Seddon Atki 400s.Mid seventies at the latest.One had a 240 Gardner and the other 290 ■■■■■■■■■■ wanted two Gardners but they were rationed at the time.One had a Fuller road ranger and the other might have had a David Brown,cant remember now.
Couple of crap motors.Loads of electrical problems and brakes didnt last very long.The ■■■■■■■ dropped a piston after a few months on the south side of Forth.I remember going down that road with the "fleet engineer" not long after and pointing out where it had broke down.Christ,he says,Im not surprised it dropped a piston with these holes in the road.Totally summed him up.
The Gardner was a better motor but only because it could pull.Took a while to get going but once up there nothing stopped it.I was behind it one night in a 2800 Daf heading north on the M6 both loaded and it ran away from us.
Compared to the Dafs they werent in the same league.One only managed 60,000kms in the first year and got scrapped after an accident.The Gardner engined one managed about 90,000 and got sold,I dont know where.
We had a few old Tate & Lyle eight wheeled tankers also for site motors.They had 180 Gardners,can`t remember but think they were Fodens but could be wrong.
Mark.
.
Hi Jim.
My old pal had his share of good old motors:-
This is another where he pleads not guilty
And he had this one:-
In 1971 he came to A.E.Evans and worked with me.After a dose of AEC MK3s and 5s he graduated to a “G” reg Mandator.
He reached the dizzy heights of a Buffalo in time:-
Then he was made redundant and started on this:-
Then he went on this:-
And finished up with this,a nice ERF,big ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ compt stainless steel tank - what more could a driver want?
He retired at 70,10 years ago,and he’s still as ugly.We had some good laughs,we all did in those days didn’t we? Doesn’t seem to be the same nowadays. 
Well Jim if you insist, at the Islington, London Depot we had an old BMC Unit with a much older cab than that on the 6 Wheeler in the above pictures, which was used to shunt trailers and load for the trunk motors, things like tea around St Katherine Docks, Buttlers Wharf etc. well this beast when under a loaded tandem was almost impossible to pull away as you very carefully let the clutch out it would suddenly bite and the front would rear straight up in the air and as you released the clutch it would crash down again this would keep happening until you were praying for a half shaft to go just so you could walk away from it, but then it would suddenly start to move all be it bucking and shaking, eventually this was sent to shunt trailers internally in ICI Dulux at Slough, to be replaced by a Bedford S type ex Pickavance of St Helens who Suttons had taken over which had a Leyland Comet engine and then later a Leyland Super Comet with the LAD Cab. Suttons also had a very old ERF Artic Unit which used sometimes on trunk, which had been fitted with a Boalloy Cab and had a 5 pot Gardner engine which was rated at 84 bhp, as an aside, these 5 pots were well known to run in reverse easily, anyway this ERF had a centre throttle i.e. between the footbrake and the clutch and it also had a habit of getting stuck on some trailers between the chassis rails just to the rear of the fifth wheel plate when trying to go round corners, and just for you Jim, Inter City had an old flat fronted Atkinson 8 Wheeler which also had the accelerater in the middle, its Reg. No. might have been BSN 5…Tony.