kr79:
Lifes easier if you come in with 1500 ltrs of cheaper fuel to run round all week with.
Ditto for UK trucks who return with full tanks.
robinhood_1984:
I may be wrong but I think that all European countries that charge British trucks to use their roads also charge their own trucks. German trucks pay maut, French trucks pay at the peage etc. The fact that they drive in the UK for free also means that we do.
!
Last time I looked which is now, I had/have a tax disc, I hardly call that free. its like the NHS free at point off delivery, but paid for through taxation which is only levied on UK registered vehicles.
robinhood_1984:
And I know the lack of parking affects us all, thats what I’ve bloody well being saying the whole time!
But you’ve also made a point about no £25 services in europe, which is about price. There is a school of thought that these are operators who wont or cant afford the cost of MSA parking, and are getting away with dangerous parking, when if domestic trucks did the same fines would rain down a plenty.
Though as you say decent reasonably priced or free parking is a joke in this country.
kr79:
As for its to hard to chase for fines i cant see how as we are an island.
So you’d like to think 
robinhood_1984:
kr79:
Lifes easier if you come in with 1500 ltrs of cheaper fuel to run round all week with.Ditto for UK trucks who return with full tanks.
Level playing field for fuel, but the UK truck will be paying for his truck to use UK roads, unlike the his foriegn competitor 
eddie snax:
Last time I looked which is now, I had/have a tax disc, I hardly call that free. its like the NHS free at point off delivery, but paid for through taxation which is only levied on UK registered vehicles.
Are you suggesting that Dutch, German, Polish etc dont pay road tax in their own countries?!?! A road tax that as a British registered vehicle you would not pay when visiting those and other countries?
eddie snax:
But you’ve also made a point about no £25 services in europe, which is about price. There is a school of thought that these are operators who wont or cant afford the cost of MSA parking, and are getting away with dangerous parking, when if domestic trucks did the same fines would rain down a plenty.Though as you say decent reasonably priced or free parking is a joke in this country.
Plenty of British hauliers wont pay for parking either, there have been several threads on here about it. The last company I did any work for in the UK didn’t and as a consequence I had to park in layby’s and industrial estates like many foreign trucks do. Its circumstance that affects us all and to simply point the finger at Johnny Foreigner is missing the point and diverting attention away from those who are really to blame, the government and local authorities who totally ignore road safety.
eddie snax:
Level playing field for fuel, but the UK truck will be paying for his truck to use UK roads, unlike the his foriegn competitor
He’s already paid his road tax in his home country, why would he pay it again to enter the UK? A British truck does not tax and register the vehicle in every European country it goes through. If there are road tolls and the like, they’re additional and are paid by all trucks, domestic and foreign. Whether its a German truck in the UK, or a UK truck in Germany.
robinhood_1984:
eddie snax:
Last time I looked which is now, I had/have a tax disc, I hardly call that free. its like the NHS free at point off delivery, but paid for through taxation which is only levied on UK registered vehicles.Are you suggesting that Dutch, German, Polish etc dont pay road tax in their own countries?!?! A road tax that as a British registered vehicle you would not pay when visiting those and other countries?
.
I was under the Impression that most off these countries levied road funding through tolling or other such methods even on their own, though I’am prepared to be corrected
robinhood_1984:
eddie snax:
But you’ve also made a point about no £25 services in europe, which is about price. There is a school of thought that these are operators who wont or cant afford the cost of MSA parking, and are getting away with dangerous parking, when if domestic trucks did the same fines would rain down a plenty.Though as you say decent reasonably priced or free parking is a joke in this country.
Plenty of British hauliers wont pay for parking either, there have been several threads on here about it. The last company I did any work for in the UK didn’t and as a consequence I had to park in layby’s and industrial estates like many foreign trucks do. .
Agreed plenty of british operators dont like paying for parking, but we dont get away with parking on the hardshoulder, which was the OP. and I wouldnt/dont knock johnny foreigner for parking as and how many off us do, but it stick in the throat when I see them being able to trade to a diferent set of rules to us, they have an advantage in their pricing and that should be enough.
robinhood_1984:
[. Its circumstance that affects us all and to simply point the finger at Johnny Foreigner is missing the point and diverting attention away from those who are really to blame, the government and local authorities who totally ignore road safety.
y.
Very true, and in total agreement.
robinhood_1984:
[eddie snax:
Level playing field for fuel, but the UK truck will be paying for his truck to use UK roads, unlike the his foriegn competitorHe’s already paid his road tax in his home country, why would he pay it again to enter the UK? A British truck does not tax and register the vehicle in every European country it goes through. If there are road tolls and the like, they’re additional and are paid by all trucks, domestic and foreign. Whether its a German truck in the UK, or a UK truck in Germany.
It still means that the Foreign hualier is using our roads for free, when we arent. we paying VED and fuel duty johnny foreigner pays absolutly bugger all to use the UK’s roads. And maybe we could say we’ve allready paid road tax in our own country why should we pay your tolls, but we have too because thats the rule of the country that you’re in, and in this country we dont park on the hard shoulder.
newmercman:
That is true, parking is scarce, but it always has been, you never used to see French, Belgian, Dutch, German, Italian or Spanish lorries on the hard shoulder thoughParking on the hard shoulder is an Eastern European thing. Harry especially should know this from his time in Russia. They even drop trailers on the hard shoulder and slip off to wherever it is they slip off too. You can see evidence of this on youtube, just type in truck crashes, they’re all out east, you’ll see for yourself
This is a great comment and 100% true.
E. E = trailer trash. 
robinhood_1984:
kr79:
Lifes easier if you come in with 1500 ltrs of cheaper fuel to run round all week with.Ditto for UK trucks who return with full tanks.
Not many can get over the water though.
All along ive not blamed the bloke behind the wheel or even there companys for doing work in the uk at prices that a uk haulier cant. Business is businesd the problem is theres plenty of eastern euro reg trucks that dont leave the uk which id ilegal there was one caught in dower with 26 ibc containers of derv the other week but how many are getging through and the government and vosa let it go on as it suits them to drive costs down.
But it all boils down to the same the eastern europeans do things such as park on the hard shoulders as they know they will get away with it.
robinhood_1984:
I may be wrong but I think that all European countries that charge British trucks to use their roads also charge their own trucks. German trucks pay maut, French trucks pay at the peage etc. The fact that they drive in the UK for free also means that we do.And I know the lack of parking affects us all, thats what I’ve bloody well being saying the whole time!
Ironically it’s that issue of it’s the same for everyone which shoots down the argument defending anyone who decides to park on the hard shoulder of a motorway to save themselves the aggravation of finding somewhere to park up at break time or when time’s up.To all intent and purposes the hard shoulder doesn’t actually exist ‘except for emergencies’.The problem will only be solved when the law decide to make an example of any or all of the idiots doing it by way of a prison sentence for dangerous driving then word will get around that motorway hard shoulders here aren’t there for parking places.
Exactly poor old bogdan understands the spanish or germans will have his trousers down over a 2 minute infringement so plans around that.
eddie snax:
It still means that the Foreign hualier is using our roads for free, when we arent. we paying VED and fuel duty johnny foreigner pays absolutly bugger all to use the UK’s roads. And maybe we could say we’ve allready paid road tax in our own country why should we pay your tolls, but we have too because thats the rule of the country that you’re in, and in this country we dont park on the hard shoulder.
Unless we totally ban any foreign vehicle from the UK and every other country does the same thing, or have one EU wide VED this will always be the case. We pay UK VED because we’re in Britain and register our trucks there. A German truck pays exactly the same thing in Germany, he doesn’t have a tax disc but rather a decal fixed on to his number plate to prove payment, the same as here in Canada. A British truck entering Germany does not pay this, so therefore the British truck is getting away scot free without paying the same as a German truck in Germany. A British truck does however pay the maut, their road tolling, but so does the domestic German truck, its not simply levied on foreign vehicles, everyone pays. This is the same in every other country and despite varying registration costs, I dont think that in itself offers any monetary advantages to foreign trucks entering the UK in the bigger scheme of things. Yes, they’re not paying UK VED, but they are paying German, Polish, Italian, Turkish etc VED.
Again, I’ve never said its acceptable to park on the hard shoulder. The original question was “Why does Johnny Foreigner do it?” and I’ve given those reasons.
I think the reason it changed its name from RFL (Road Fund Licence) was that everyone got onto the fact there was no road fund Its just VED now, as Eddie points out when in Rome…
Mike-C:
I think the reason it changed its name from RFL (Road Fund Licence) was that everyone got onto the fact there was no road fund
Thats exactly what everyone is doing. If a foreign truck paid UK VED it would cease to be foreign as it would be registered in the UK with UK plates. If a British truck was to for the same reason pay for the German equivalent, it would then be a German truck with German plates. Do people really think that British trucks are the only ones in Europe to pay domestic road tax and the rest of Europe just drives around free of charge?!
This is a complete non-issue. What people in the UK should be worried about is the imminent end to EU cabotage regulations that will remove any restriction on foreign registered trucks to carry loads within the UK, or any other country. Not only will Eastern European firms then set up shop in the UK, doing what large firms like Stobarts do, but for less but I anticipate British firms “flagging out” part, or perhaps all of their fleets to Romanian or Bulgarian plates and then employ drivers from those countries on domestic UK work, which will be quite legal, at lower rates of pay and have them in trucks on rotating 3, 4 or 6 month contracts and fly them home in between. Its already what many large firms do with international work where cabotage regulations do not apply, there is absolutely nothing to suggest this wont happen to the domestic UK market once restrictions end. This is a real threat, foreign trucks visiting the UK at the moment in their current capacity, not paying UK VED is not.
Now this has gone off on a taxation tangent, my thoughts on tax?
The only fair way is a consumption tax, spend money, pay tax, end of story, earnings, savings etc should all be tax exempt.
I doubt it will stop them pesky foreigners parking on the hard shoulder though
newmercman:
Now this has gone off on a taxation tangent, my thoughts on tax?The only fair way is a consumption tax, spend money, pay tax, end of story, earnings, savings etc should all be tax exempt.
I doubt it will stop them pesky foreigners parking on the hard shoulder though
newmercman:
If you’re a Brit then you will be ok in Britain maybe, but what about the Brits that venture abroad? The same rules apply to them, do they abandon their lorries wherever their last minute of driving tells themProbably not
Propably because they are Brits, so they know Britain well, as every journer starts and ends in Britain for them, while for many foreigners Britain is the country where they go only on some rare occassions? ?
I bet Polish international driver knows Poland better than you, even if you go there from time to time…
eddie snax:
I was under the Impression that most off these countries levied road funding through tolling or other such methods even on their own, though I’am prepared to be corrected
Your impression was wrong. I can give you a Polish example: in Poland road tax is included in fuel, so everyone who buys fuel pays it, but there is additional tax from trucks. And then you have to pay tolls. So if you are Polish haulier, you pay three times for the privillege of using Polish roads. If you enter Poland with a tank of German fuel, you will pay only once, if you have to fill up in Poland, you have to pay twice, so you still have an advantage over Polish company - just like they have advantage over you here.
It still means that the Foreign hualier is using our roads for free, when we arent. we paying VED and fuel duty johnny foreigner pays absolutly bugger all to use the UK’s roads. And maybe we could say we’ve allready paid road tax in our own country why should we pay your tolls, but we have too because thats the rule of the country that you’re in, and in this country we dont park on the hard shoulder.
Interesting. I often see trucks parked in wide load lay by on M74, and often they are not wide loads but certainly British 
12pages before you popped up Orys, your self control is remarkable, I’m impressed
orys:
eddie snax:
I was under the Impression that most off these countries levied road funding through tolling or other such methods even on their own, though I’am prepared to be correctedYour impression was wrong. I can give you a Polish example: in Poland road tax is included in fuel, so everyone who buys fuel pays it, but there is additional tax from trucks. And then you have to pay tolls. So if you are Polish haulier, you pay three times for the privillege of using Polish roads. If you enter Poland with a tank of German fuel, you will pay only once, if you have to fill up in Poland, you have to pay twice, so you still have an advantage over Polish company - just like they have advantage over you here.
Well thanks for correcting me. education is allways a good thing
orys:
[It still means that the Foreign hualier is using our roads for free, when we arent. we paying VED and fuel duty johnny foreigner pays absolutly bugger all to use the UK’s roads. And maybe we could say we’ve allready paid road tax in our own country why should we pay your tolls, but we have too because thats the rule of the country that you’re in, and in this country we dont park on the hard shoulder.
Interesting. I often see trucks parked in wide load lay by on M74, and often they are not wide loads but certainly British
Well I can only speak as I see, and I have rarely seen a a British truck in the situation that you describe, and dont ever recal seeing any British truck overnighting on the hardshoulder or slip road, and rarely under a flyover. I suspect that this is becuase in short order the authorities move them on with a flee in the ear and a fine in the pocket.
eddie snax:
Well I can only speak as I see, and I have rarely seen a a British truck in the situation that you describe, and dont ever recal seeing any British truck overnighting on the hardshoulder or slip road, and rarely under a flyover. I suspect that this is becuase in short order the authorities move them on with a flee in the ear and a fine in the pocket.
I’ve seen some Britons parked there. Even I had years ago my 45 once on the emergency layby on the motorway in British registered truck. I pulled there after being stuck in traffic for nearly an hour and over 15 minutes over my limit (I was planning to stop at place few miles up the road, but there was an accident). I had a traffic officer knocking to my door and asking me to move, I told him my circumstances and that I will be away in 15 minutes, he said that it is no problem then and left me alone.
But of course there is not as much of them as foreign ones and they are not only Eastern European, there is many Portugese and Spanish as well doing it.
I agree with something someone said already, that it’s wrong to narrow the problem only to Eastern European trucks.
newmercman:
12pages before you popped up Orys, your self control is remarkable, I’m impressed
And what exactly that observation brings to this discussion?
orys:
eddie snax:
Well I can only speak as I see, and I have rarely seen a a British truck in the situation that you describe, and dont ever recal seeing any British truck overnighting on the hardshoulder or slip road, and rarely under a flyover. I suspect that this is becuase in short order the authorities move them on with a flee in the ear and a fine in the pocket.I’ve seen some Britons parked there. Even I had years ago my 45 once on the emergency layby on the motorway in British registered truck. I pulled there after being stuck in traffic for nearly an hour and over 15 minutes over my limit (I was planning to stop at place few miles up the road, but there was an accident). I had a traffic officer knocking to my door and asking me to move, I told him my circumstances and that I will be away in 15 minutes, he said that it is no problem then and left me alone.
Yeah a 45min break due to unforseen circumstances. thats not getting the curtains round for 9 hours, and as you stated the HATO guy knocked on your door and you told him off your circumstances, and he would have known off the earlier/ongoing problems on that road. But you cant tell me that if you’d been planning to stop the night or if there had been no traffic problems in the near area that you’d have been able to stop, or that the frequency that we/I see these foreign trucks parked in such a manner, with their curtains drawn. That they have been unforseeably delayed in that area prior to parking, I know are road network is crappy sometimes, but be serious.
eddie snax:
Yeah a 45min break due to unforseen circumstances. thats not getting the curtains round for 9 hours, and as you stated the HATO guy knocked on your door and you told him off your circumstances, and he would have known off the earlier/ongoing problems on that road. But you cant tell me that if you’d been planning to stop the night or if there had been no traffic problems in the near area that you’d have been able to stop, or that the frequency that we/I see these foreign trucks parked in such a manner, with their curtains drawn. That they have been unforseeably delayed in that area prior to parking, I know are road network is crappy sometimes, but be serious.
They might be planning their trip on the assumption that there are easily available pakring spaces on the motorway in about 10-15 minutes intervals, as it is in most of Europe, and this is why they got surprised. Notice, that you see them mostly near London, further up England and in Scotland, more rare this occurence is. Propably they learn on their mistakes.