Johnny Forigner...... why?

[robinhood_1984]

newmercman:
You can say that Johnny Foreigner won’t know how busy the M25 gets, but that’s ■■■■■■■■, we all knew the reputation of the big cities in Europe and wouldn’t, for example, join the Tangenziale around Milan at 4pm on 9hrs 45mins, we would’ve stopped on 8hrs 30mins at Carisio or Santhia or used a bit more time and parked in the services a bit further down the road

Where do you draw the line with planning? If you’re a foreign truck or a UK truck that doesn’t get parking paid and your exiting Dover to head north with X amount of hours left and know of next to no free parking places that are either layby’s on roads leading off your route or rare industrial estates in the SE that dont have parking restrictions then what? There will absolutely always be an element of chance when it comes to finding parking within most time frames when heading north from Dover unless the driver pays £30 of his own wages for parking, which isn’t a realistic option.
We all know its reckless to park on hard shoulders, no one is denying that, what we disagree on is why they do it, after all that was the original question. If I had personal experience at being fined a huge amount for a insignificant tacho offence, or even thought there were a significant chance of being fined, my priorities when trying to park may be somewhat different to a UK only driver who only ever has Vosa and one set of standards to contend with. Mick is entirely correct that parking on the hard shoulder is unsafe, but Mick also isn’t facing the weekly prospect of being fined hundreds, if not thousands of €€€€ in another country for going over his time and parking somewhere suitable, something he’d get away with in the UK once in a while.

Foreigners parking on the hard shoulder, any trucks parking in dangerous laybys, any driver having to pee and crap in bushes at night in the afore mentioned locations etc are not the problem, they’re only the symptom of the larger problem that all drivers in the UK face as they try to abide by the laws that see them in this situation to begin with.

[mickyblue]

newmercman:

Harry Monk:

mickyblue:
Two things my little hero,

I am not a jobsworth, don’t know where you got that from but I prefer to plan ahead and have a plan a and b sorted, but in your little world your telling me that you drive along knowing your time is nearly up and you don’t start to think about where to park? that’s what I am getting at. I am not on about hold ups etc because that’s part of the job but I fail to see hero’s like yourself not thinking, say 2 to 1 hour before time is up start thinking about parking.

I fail to see “Being non English” gives it a OK to park up on a hard shoulder of a busy motorway but hey lets end it here.

Honestly Micky, you haven’t got a clue. I may at some stage employ drivers to do international journeys but there is no way I would ever employ you because I just know you would be on the phone every five minutes whining that “It isn’t like it is in England, Boss! What should I do?”

To which I’d reply “I don’t know, I’m 2,000 miles away. Haven’t you got some initiative you can use?” although of course I’d already know the answer…

I thought you were selling up and buying a narrow boat Make your mind up

There is a lot of ■■■■■■■■ being written on this thread and so far none of it has come from mickyblue

Unless there has been an unforseen situation, like an accident, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to park on the hard shoulder

If you are in unfamiliar territory then you should not be waiting until the 15min warning bleeper goes off before looking for somewhere to park

That is bad planning, the drivers hours laws set a LIMIT to how many hours you can drive without a break/rest, not a TARGET that must be achieved at all costs

It isn’t rocket science, a bit of planning before you start the final segment of your allowed hours and you can find somewhere safe to park

If, for example, you are leaving Peterborough with 3hrs left on your card then you ain’t going to make Ashford Services, so you start looking around Maidstone and spend the final 45mins of your shift looking for somewhere to park, if you’ve hit traffic then it might be Dartford, or even call it a day with an hour and a half left at Birchanger Green if it’s approaching rush hour

You can say that Johnny Foreigner won’t know how busy the M25 gets, but that’s ■■■■■■■■, we all knew the reputation of the big cities in Europe and wouldn’t, for example, join the Tangenziale around Milan at 4pm on 9hrs 45mins, we would’ve stopped on 8hrs 30mins at Carisio or Santhia or used a bit more time and parked in the services a bit further down the road

Another example going in to Paris with an hours drive left and then looking for a place to park, just not going to happen.

First for me to not type ■■■■■■■■ but you have made a good point newmercman

[chilistrucker]

I wouldn’t personally park on the hard shoulder between junctions overnight, either in the uk or europe, but I can see why people have parked on exit slips of services.
There is the ideal world, and the real world.
A good example being the forest road between bordeaux and irun.
I’ve had it before here more than once, where I’ve started to look for parking after 8-8&1/2 hours, but because its after 7pm, all the spaces have gone, both in services and picnic areas, so you keep going, and going, (even then entering into a 10) but still no joy, so very rarely I’ve ended up on the exit slip of said areas. What are your other options, drive for 11 hours plus and get nicked, or start looking to park after, what, 6, 7 hours? Neither are practical.
It does seem that many countries are addressing the parking issues now, by adding to existing areas, or building brand new ones. If I read the signs right, the dutch have even added new parking areas and for free, but what do we get in the uk? Its ok if you know the uk roads network well, but a noob may well struggle on their 1st few trips.
In most instances, I would say you should be able to get parked ok, all be it at times with abit of a struggle, but with the amount of traffic on the roads, I can see why problems arise.

[harry_monk]

It’s a fairly recent phenomenon, I’d say it’s quite rare to see a truck taking an overnight rest on a hard shoulder, although it is common to see a truck taking a 45 minute break. Nine times out of ten it seems to happen when traffic is at a standstill on the adjacent motorway, and it’s caused by two recent developments.

1. The introduction of digital tachographs, which can easily record 30 seconds of driving in stop-start conditions as 30 minutes of driving, and

2. Fines of several thousand euros being levied on drivers who have been caught out by this.

As well, of course, as the long-standing problem of there being woefully inadequate provision of parking places for trucks in the UK compared to everywhere else in Europe.

Blue-noses (and in this context I’m not referring to Birmingham City supporters) may disagree, but then it is in the nature of such people to ignore the above and simply express their desire to animate their deep-seated punishment fetishes.

[newmercman]

Harry Monk:
Blue-noses (and in this context I’m not referring to Birmingham City supporters) may disagree, but then it is in the nature of such people to ignore the above and simply express their desire to animate their deep-seated punishment fetishes.

Why don’t you just call a spade a spade instead of using big words to try and appear clever

That statement is an insult to everybody that dares to disagree with your opinion, which seems to be the only reason you post on here

You have multiple posts on the Ltd Company thread saying that you are selling your business in three years and retiring on the canals in a narrow boat.

Yet here you are slagging mickyblue off and saying you won’t employ him when you put more lorries on the road to do international work. A little bit inconsistent don’t you think

If it was anyone else posting in the same manner you (& others) would be screaming troll, you may have your little fan club that hang on to every word, but I see through the act, you are a wind up and nothing else

Just as an aside, if you were to offer mickyblue a job I think it would be safe to assume his response would not pass the autocensor and would include the word off

So, back to topic, I’m sorry if it offends, but unless there are unforseen circumstances, then there is no excuse for parking on the hard shoulder. Proper planning will prevent this from being necessary, yeah we have digi tachos now, yeah parking is scarce, yeah we have mental traffic jams, yeah over zealous foreign officials will throw the book at them if they get a pull in the following weeks and all the other reasons for running out of time, but none of them are going to come as a surprise are they? Everybody from here to Timbuktu knows about it and they should plan accordingly

The parking situation is more of a problem now as the increase of foreigners means that they have no yard to return to at night like a UK haulier does, so there are more lorries looking for parking, it is expensive to park in the services, other options ate few and far between, especially withput lical knowledge, but that is their problem, maybe if they wasn’t running around for peanuts they could afford to pay for parking and not have their drivers using every available minute of their driving time

That isn’t xenophobic and I have sympathy for the drivers that are forced to work under those conditions, but I’m a firm believer that people will only treat you in the way you allow yourself to be treated. It can’t be much fun trying to sleep on a hard shoulder, so why do they put up with it

[kr79]

To be fair if your a brit you might be ok with going over due to traffic or whatever ocasionaly but if you was doing it daily you would be off for tea and biscuits with the commisioner and handing over a fair chunk in fines so a brit has to abide by the rules which means forward planning. There seems to be plenty of brit firms who wont pay parking or if they do wont pay msa prices so it means lay bys and stuff.
Not every driver is going to know a gaurnteed ■■■■■■■■■■■■ whereever they might be so it can mean start looking with an hour left.
Evdn us local drivers can struggle in london with parking restrictions for example as a tipper driver if you get a load of muck in the city and its bound for a tip in essex the first ■■■■■■■■■■■■ avalible is at becton so you realy need 45 minutes to an hour on your card before your break is due to get there or barking onwards where it gets a bit easier.
Thats how it is like it or lump it.

[newmercman]

If you’re a Brit then you will be ok in Britain maybe, but what about the Brits that venture abroad? The same rules apply to them, do they abandon their lorries wherever their last minute of driving tells them

Probably not

[robinhood_1984]

newmercman:
If you’re a Brit then you will be ok in Britain maybe, but what about the Brits that venture abroad? The same rules apply to them, do they abandon their lorries wherever their last minute of driving tells them

Probably not

The last time I went through Holland, Belgium and France there was not a £25 parking fee in all of the services making going off route down national roads in the vague hope of finding a lay by or industrial estate a likely prospect.

As for UK trucks having a base to return to at night, yes maybe if you work for the Royal Mail and other such companies but even on UK only work I was always away all week and while the company I worked for pre-Canada did pay parking (which meant I always had the option of Folkestone Harbour to park in ex-Dover) the company I have since done work for on the odd visit back do not pay parking, like a rapidly growing number of British hauliers. We’re all in the same boat, there isn’t enough parking and thats the real issue here. A complete under capacity of available parking and what is available is nothing short of daylight robbery. Both of these are at odds to just about every other country that enforces EU tachograph regulations that I’ve ever been to. Except perhaps Switzerland, their parking is even worse than ours on their main routes, although it is free.

[carryfast]

kr79:
They do it because they get away with it.
Parking on a motorway hard shoulder is lunacy and nothing will ne done until theres a few bad smashes.
But what do i know im not a trucknet overland hero. But then again other than driving on the wrong side of the roadeuro work is hardly heading to iran in the 60s hard.
As an adide ive not noticed any irish motors parked on hatd shoulders and im guessing a fair few of them in blighty may be crossing the water.

^ This no ifs no buts.All the bs about no parking places etc would apply to all drivers using uk roads.As for Harry referring to drivers using their initiative part of that would obviously include sorting out somewhere to park up in just the same way that they need to find another route if a motorway is closed for ages and that applies regardless of which european country they are in.The East Euros seem to be a bit short of initiative in that regard in wanting to stay on the motorways at all costs instead of diverting onto the A roads to find an alternative route or a parking place.

[geoffo]

Parking has never been any good in the UK…

[newmercman]

Carryfast:

kr79:
They do it because they get away with it.
Parking on a motorway hard shoulder is lunacy and nothing will ne done until theres a few bad smashes.
But what do i know im not a trucknet overland hero. But then again other than driving on the wrong side of the roadeuro work is hardly heading to iran in the 60s hard.
As an adide ive not noticed any irish motors parked on hatd shoulders and im guessing a fair few of them in blighty may be crossing the water.

^ This no ifs no buts.All the bs about no parking places etc would apply to all drivers using uk roads.As for Harry referring to drivers using their initiative part of that would obviously include sorting out somewhere to park up in just the same way that they need to find another route if a motorway is closed for ages and that applies regardless of which european country they are in.The East Euros seem to be a bit short of initiative in that regard in wanting to stay on the motorways at all costs instead of diverting onto the A roads to find an alternative route or a parking place.

Exactly

Robinhood, paid parking or not, you still have to look for a space, running out of time on the hard shoulder means you didn’t look for somewhere to park in good time. No ifs, buts or maybes

It is evidence of a dumbing down of the population, doesn’t matter where you come from, it seems that the ability to use a bit of common sense has been bred out of people nowadays

There are a million reasons why you need to park on the hard shoulder and the biggest one of all of them is because you haven’t thought about it

Like many others on here, I have spent most of my career having night’s out somewhere in the World, I plan my day around the night out and if circumstances change through the day, I change my plans to suit. Notice the key word in all of that? PLAN

Robinhood, this bit applies to you directly. Have you noticed all the trucks parked on ramps etc over here, yet noticed that when you go into the next truckstops there are half a dozen empty spaces? This happens for the same reasons, idiots that are running elogs and failing to plan their stop at the end of the day

You have a 15hr spreadover to work within (in the UK) so how difficult can it be to plan a place to stop before that 15th hour comes up? Piece of ■■■■ if you think about it, if you don’t, well there’s the hard shoulder or a slip road

[robinhood_1984]

newmercman:
Robinhood, this bit applies to you directly. Have you noticed all the trucks parked on ramps etc over here, yet noticed that when you go into the next truckstops there are half a dozen empty spaces? This happens for the same reasons, idiots that are running elogs and failing to plan their stop at the end of the day

You have a 15hr spreadover to work within (in the UK) so how difficult can it be to plan a place to stop before that 15th hour comes up? Piece of ■■■■ if you think about it, if you don’t, well there’s the hard shoulder or a slip road

The blatant difference between the US and the UK is that one country has an abundance of parking in most places and one country does not. I’ve never had a single tacho offence but there have been times when due to unforeseen circumstances I’ve been seconds away from having one. If you get caught out, and lets face it, an accident on the M25 can lose you 2 hours or more sometimes, planning goes out of the window, you’re stuck in an area with absolutely nothing for miles around and the destination that you could initially have easily made is now beyond reach.
If I were coming up from Dover and got as far as the Dartford crossing with 3 hours to spare but got delayed for 2 hours. I really can’t say that I’d be confident in finding free parking within 60 minutes. Where do you go in that area to find empty layby’s or industrial estates without parking restrictions. I’m sure there are plenty of people who’d know where to head, but I’m not one of them and I’m not even a “Johnny Foreigner”.
Now personally I wouldn’t park on the hard shoulder or the slip road any way, I’d go over my time until I could park properly and document the reason as to why.
I’m not saying the Eastern Europeans (or any on else doing it) are right, I think they’re wrong, but I think a bigger wrong is the lack of parking that we all have to deal with and that overrides the whole issue.

[newmercman]

That is true, parking is scarce, but it always has been, you never used to see French, Belgian, Dutch, German, Italian or Spanish lorries on the hard shoulder though

Parking on the hard shoulder is an Eastern European thing. Harry especially should know this from his time in Russia. They even drop trailers on the hard shoulder and slip off to wherever it is they slip off too. You can see evidence of this on youtube, just type in truck crashes, they’re all out east, you’ll see for yourself

[kr79]

Dont wsnt it to become a flip flop bashing rant and i know it can me quite stressful been in a strange place with half an adress but does any one notice loads of them think its acceptable to abandon ship now mater how inconvenient or dangerous to check if this is the place the need.

[eddie_snax]

newmercman:
That is true, parking is scarce, but it always has been, you never used to see French, Belgian, Dutch, German, Italian or Spanish lorries on the hard shoulder though
:

Yep thats very true, its one off those things that has crept up on us in recent years. but then maybe the West European firms were working to similar prices and costs as UK hualiers.

robinhood_1984:
The last time I went through Holland, Belgium and France there was not a £25 parking fee in all of the services making going off route down national roads in the vague hope of finding a lay by or industrial estate a likely prospect.
.

The cost or frequency off parking on the continent is off no consequence to this debate, it is the same for all using our roads, and as yet I’ve not seen anybody mention the fact that though parking is expensive here, the road network to those that dont have their trucks registered in the UK is free, and usualy dont contribute through our extortionet fuel duty to the exchequer either. I’m led to believe that in most other EU countries there is some kind off charge, through multiple different routes.

Another thing that I’ve noticed happening more often, though this aint exclusive to Johnny Forigner, though more often than UK lorries, that is parking in layby’s with the arse off the trailer still on the carriageway. Just bloody dangerous.

I do wonder somtimes, if to look at this from another angle, maybe these East Europeans are being given an allowance for parking, but try to pocket it, a kind off end off trip bonus.

About 6 or 7 years ago whilst me and another driver for our firm were parked for a brew in Thurrock services, a Lithuanion truck crashed into my mates truck(bloody well spilt our tea), and even though at the Lithuanion drivers request the Police got involved, Nowich Union failed to get any money from them, and stopped chasing them after 18 months. So much for 1 Europe so I can understand why the authorities are reluctant to bother with fines, but they can imobilise them.

Its nothing to do with “you dont understand if you have not worked on the continent” or “this is just Xenophobia”, its a simple case off this is britain, and whilst in Britain accept the cost of operating here and attitude of the authorities to operating here, as british hualiers have to do when operating on the continent. Though we wont have as low wage and fuel cost base to operate with, as far as is possible a fair and level playing field in other operational matters

[kr79]

Totaly right. Its no different to why british hauliers ran round in europe on the wire with moody permits dodgy tanks in tge trailer headboard the list goes on in the 70s and 80s. They knew the savings far outweighed the risks and took a chance.
As for its to hard to chase for fines i cant see how as we are an island.

[robinhood_1984]

I may be wrong but I think that all European countries that charge British trucks to use their roads also charge their own trucks. German trucks pay maut, French trucks pay at the peage etc. The fact that they drive in the UK for free also means that we do.

And I know the lack of parking affects us all, thats what I’ve bloody well being saying the whole time!

[robinhood_1984]

kr79:
Totaly right. Its no different to why british hauliers ran round in europe on the wire with moody permits dodgy tanks in tge trailer headboard the list goes on in the 70s and 80s. They knew the savings far outweighed the risks and took a chance.
As for its to hard to chase for fines i cant see how as we are an island.

Its the easy option. They can’t be bothered to chase insurance claims to other European countries because its more complicated and involves more effort. Its easier to just give in, not pay out and increase premiums to their policy holders. Thats how it looks to me any way. Like everything else in the UK, its all about doing as little as possible, charging as much as you can and sod the long term consequences to all involved.

[kr79]

robinhood_1984:
I may be wrong but I think that all European countries that charge British trucks to use their roads also charge their own trucks. German trucks pay maut, French trucks pay at the peage etc. The fact that they drive in the UK for free also means that we do.

And I know the lack of parking affects us all, thats what I’ve bloody well being saying the whole time!

Lifes easier if you come in with 1500 ltrs of cheaper fuel to run round all week with.

[andrejs]

must separeited TOOLS ROAD AND eurovignette.for tolls road must pay to any one when lorry use motorway.eurovignette just in coule country.eurovignettes.eu/portal/en/ … reset=true