Af ter showing my neighbour ,a long time owner operator the story on trucknet news ,he was stunned that any country would jail someone for something so minor.
His coment to me that there must be very little crime in the uk for them to do this.After trying to explain hrs rules ,weekly rest to him he cant understand why anyone would invest money in running a truck and want to drive a truck when you could be jailed for making a mistake.
He understands rules are rules but 10hrs driving is not a lot compared to other countrys rules.
sooooo im writing this as he wants to see what coments i get.
jimmy maitoba ca.
When I started driving trucks I was in Australia and travelling interstate all of the time. Mainly from Melbourne to Sydney and back, up and down the Hume Highway. Back then much of it was single carriageway, except when entering and leaving the main cities…
I would never stop after a 10 hour drive. In fact, I’d leave Melbourne around 20:00 after spending the afternoon loading the truck and driving across the city, and arrive in Sydney around 04:00. I’d drive to wherever I had to tip whatever I was carrying, and then drive to wherever I needed to to pick up the return load. So I’d have the back load loaded and ready to head back south around say 16:00. So that would be 24 hrs working up until then. (All without any sort of significant break; maybe a half hour to get a coffee and a burger.)
Because it was always a hassle trying to drive down the Paramatta Road around 18:00 in the evening so would stop for a couple of hrs, and have something to eat, or pick up a hamburger at a milk bar.
Sorry this is a bit long winded, but the point is that I’d only stop on the way back at Albury (about half way) and have about 4 hrs rest there. Then head into Melbourne for about 10:00 in the morning and tip the load I’d brought from Sydney. (And we’re talking ropes and tarps over gates, so not a simple job like a curtainsider!) So a round trip would be about 36 hrs pretty much non-stop!
It was crazy then, but do-able none the less! And no digi cards, or analogue tachos either. Just a driver’s log book and a sheet of carbon paper!
The point was that it was easier to make a mile in Oz even then, than it was/is to drive any great distance in the UK. And I was a lot, lot younger back then!
There’s so much more traffic here. So many more things to distract you and be aware of, so I think a 10 hrs driving limit, in this country, is about right to be honest.
I expect the driving conditions in Manitoba, are similar to Australia. Much less traffic, much less distraction and a chance to get on and do the miles.
Tell your friend I can’t understand why anyone invests money in running a truck here either, and I’m certain that driving them in the UK is a mug’s game… I know that because loads of people call me a mug for doing it!
NOBODY is jailed for making a mistake with your hours. People are jailed for constant and widespread flouting of the regulations. Bit heavy handed? Maybe. But it’d be intresting to compare how many fatigue related accidents we have here compare to north America.
If you are talking about the recent thread on here about jailed drivers and seized trucks then they weren’t jailed for making a mistake or going a bit over their hours. They were jailed for falsifying records, in other words fraud. That isn’t making a mistake, that is deliberately setting out to deceive with the full knowledge of what you are doing.
switchlogic:
NOBODY is jailed for making a mistake with your hours. People are jailed for constant and widespread flouting of the regulations. Bit heavy handed? Maybe. But it’d be intresting to compare how many fatigue related accidents we have here compare to north America.
ok ,i agree with the constant flouting but 9 offences =4months jail??as reported.
EA trucker yup it was like that here in the 80s ,maybe worse but as a o/o with a family you did what was needed,when i was a company team driver for a couple of years mid 80s and we ran hard for the money but only because we wanted it that way!
I wouldnt know how to com pare fatigue accidents *.thread is at top. stories involving container drivers in england. .nb…tom here not jim.
Coffeeholic:
If you are talking about the recent thread on here about jailed drivers and seized trucks then they weren’t jailed for making a mistake or going a bit over their hours. They were jailed for falsifying records, in other words fraud. That isn’t making a mistake, that is deliberately setting out to deceive with the full knowledge of what you are doing.
It’s worse than fraud, mate - it’s forgery. And that is a biggie, whatever you are forging…
The Sarge:
Coffeeholic:
If you are talking about the recent thread on here about jailed drivers and seized trucks then they weren’t jailed for making a mistake or going a bit over their hours. They were jailed for falsifying records, in other words fraud. That isn’t making a mistake, that is deliberately setting out to deceive with the full knowledge of what you are doing.It’s worse than fraud, mate - it’s forgery. And that is a biggie, whatever you are forging…
No hes right its fraud, and yes its worth a jail sentence.
schrodingers cat:
The Sarge:
Coffeeholic:
If you are talking about the recent thread on here about jailed drivers and seized trucks then they weren’t jailed for making a mistake or going a bit over their hours. They were jailed for falsifying records, in other words fraud. That isn’t making a mistake, that is deliberately setting out to deceive with the full knowledge of what you are doing.It’s worse than fraud, mate - it’s forgery. And that is a biggie, whatever you are forging…
No hes right its fraud, and yes its worth a jail sentence.
Checked on Google (just in case 
)
for·ger·y/ˈfôrjərē/Noun
1. The action of forging or producing a copy of a document, signature, banknote, or work of art.
2. A forged or copied document, signature, banknote, or work of art.
If you tamper with work records by altering them in any way - it has been forged. Even if it’s a digi-tacho, if you’ve altered it, then signed it as genuine, it’s a forgery. It’s why I would never run bent when I used an old paper tacho, because if I sign it - I’m committing forgery. And that is jail time.
Fraud - “deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage”
That pretty much covers what they were doing.
Actually the term VOSA will use when they nick you is falsify, which can mean to counterfeit or forge and if you falsify/forge something you can then use it to commit fraud. 
Knowingly filling out a form with false information is fraud, making a false copy of a document is forgery.
schrodingers cat:
Knowingly filling out a form with false information is fraud, making a false copy of a document is forgery.
That makes sense. It appears that in this case they had letters of attestation saying they were not working when they were so those letters contained false information and would as you say be fraud.
You can run as bent as a nine bob note with an analogue without ever committing fraud, or forgery. I know, I used to do it.
If you have to run like that as a O/D then you are charging wrong & are in the wrong job
IIRC a number of years ago Martin Oliver was jailed along with 12 
of his drivers for tacho infringements & falsifying records
switchlogic:
You can run as bent as a nine bob note with an analogue without ever committing fraud, or forgery. I know, I used to do it.
as in not hiding it or just not bothering with a chart??
stevieboy308:
switchlogic:
You can run as bent as a nine bob note with an analogue without ever committing fraud, or forgery. I know, I used to do it.as in not hiding it or just not bothering with a chart??
Well with analogue you have the option not to produce if stopped. So just don’t produce your cards, just make sure the one in head is legal and that’s it.
Considered the penalty of a prison sentence harsh but the penalty was only imposed because they fiddled the card and weren’t very good at it.
Im shocked at the replies …fraud, forgery no wonder that so many people come here to work ,i used to think jim was joking when he told me about truck driving in scotchland but i see now why he wanted away .
If they jailed every driver here that altered their logs the roads would be near empty!. and for some of you saying they deserve jail ,would not suspension of licence not be punishment enough instead of ruining
someones life…
tom
Wait a minute I have never cheated on my logbook. There is no need to as a company driver. As an O/O maybe at the current price of fuel but the days of having to run wild they are gone.
JIMBO47:
,would not suspension of licence not be punishment enough instead of ruining
someones life…
The regulations are there for reasons of safety and fair competition. Most people run to the rules to the best of their ability, they make mistakes now and again for which they get a bollocking or a fine. Some run as legal as they can but make more frequent mistakes or occasionally push it a little, for which they get a fine and possibly a short suspension of their licence. Others don’t make any attempt to run legal and try to hide the fact by committing fraud. This gives them an unfair advantage over the competition and also puts lives at danger when they have had insufficient rest. Getting caught for that usually means a prison sentence of up to 2 years, the drivers in this case will be out in a couple of months so it could be said they got off lightly. It isn’t an honest mistake but premeditated fraud and they knew exactly what they were doing and it wouldn’t be much of a deterrent if they got the same punishment as someone who makes a mistake or pushes it a bit but doesn’t try to conceal it with false documentation.
I’ve always said if you are going to bend it don’t try to conceal it as the punishment for breaking the regulations is far less than for trying to hide it.
In this case it appears they weren’t very clever when it came to falsifying documents. They have been crossing from Ireland to the UK by ferry, which leaves a trail of times and would show them as working when the documents they were carrying probably claimed they weren’t.
We are just Cash Cows for the Government of the Day. Easy Nicks for more revenue. Criminals don’t pay fines and are happy to do a stretch catching up with there mates in Jail. I think the majority of us drivers try to do our best in keeping within the rules but we do make mistakes with this system we have at present. It should be made easier for people to understand. A good start would be to get all digi tachos to work in the same way as the Siemens, then simplify Driving hours/working time directive. Trying to drive safely with all the confusion on our roads is bad enough without the worry of Mr Vosa breathing down my neck. 