Jail for tacho offences

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

JIMBO47:
Af ter showing my neighbour ,a long time owner operator the story on trucknet news ,he was stunned that any country would jail someone for something so minor.
His coment to me that there must be very little crime in the uk for them to do this.After trying to explain hrs rules ,weekly rest to him he cant understand why anyone would invest money in running a truck and want to drive a truck when you could be jailed for making a mistake.
He understands rules are rules but 10hrs driving is not a lot compared to other countrys rules.
sooooo im writing this as he wants to see what coments i get.
jimmy maitoba ca.

Hi Jimmy,

I can understand your neighbour’s shock at somebody being jailed for something that seems minor.

As has been pointed out, there are degrees of gravity of offences ranging from a driver inadvertently running a few minutes over the permitted hours, right up to a transport company boss knowingly ordering drivers to drive far in excess of permitted hours and then organising wholesale falsification of drivers’ hours records to cover it all up. (Just to show the two extremes.)

When a vehicle operator in the UK first applies for an Operator’s Licence, there are a whole pile of conditions that have to be met. One of the main responsibilities of a boss is to organise a driver’s work so as to comply with the drivers’ hours Regulations as already mentioned above, but there is also the separate promise made to the licencing authorities at the time the licence is granted, which is… to monitor and control drivers’ hours.
Other important promises include running fit and serviceable vehicles at all times and running vehicles that aren’t overloaded. The main promises are quite strictly enforced in the name of fair competition and road safety.

Once the UK system is understood, there really is no excuse for a falsification of drivers hours records offence, and not the slightest chance of pleading ignorance, because the authorities have an operator’s cast iron promise on the application forms (against his signature) that the operator understands the rules before they issue the Operator’s Licence. When a Court imposes a jail term upon an operator, it is just about inevitable that the licencing authorities will then revoke the operator’s licence after finding that the operator has lost their repute. The repute of the operator’s transport manager may then also be called into question and a finding made one way or the other.

22

In many cases such as this the drivers are given the option of being prosecution witnessess against the company and coming clean on what they did
The courts are then much more lenient on the drivers

I wonder if the drivers were given such a choice in this case and what the drivers opted to do?

23

I think for a first offence they should have all been banned for a few years and had suspended prison sentences. Most people deserve a 2nd chance I think.

I like how the husband of the owner with 5 false record got a 3 month suspended sentence and then one of the drivers with 9 false records got 4 months inside. Cheers. :unamused:

I suppose there are set punishments for this type of thing but how can they justify that big a leap in punishment.

Has the woman who ran it been sent down yet?

24

JIMBO47:
Im shocked at the replies …fraud, forgery no wonder that so many people come here to work ,i used to think jim was joking when he told me about truck driving in scotchland but i see now why he wanted away .
If they jailed every driver here that altered their logs the roads would be near empty!. and for some of you saying they deserve jail ,would not suspension of licence not be punishment enough instead of ruining
someones life…
tom

I think you’ve missed the point of what these guys were doing. They weren’t just making the odd mistake with thiers tachos or even doing the odd dodgy run.

I sure many drivers on here are guilty of one or the others of those, including me and even when they have been picked up on a roadside check they don’t go to prison.
The worst I’ve got was “Don’t let it happen again” but this was a few years ago and I’ve got a really nice smile. :laughing:

However I do beleive the regulations are to complicated for everybody to understand them, incuding the authorities.
For instance.
Why do we need a WTD when we have tacho regs to limit our working day and week?
Why do you need a fortnightly limit when you have a weekly limit?

25

Coffeeholic:
I’ve always said if you are going to bend it don’t try to conceal it as the punishment for breaking the regulations is far less than for trying to hide it.

26

muckles:
Why do we need a WTD when we have tacho regs to limit our working day and week?

Because a driver on multidrop may not get to a 4.5 hour driving limit in a 10 hour shift and under the EU regs they are not required to have a break

The other stuff in the WTD is, I agree, mainly a waste of time so why not just add an X hour working time limit rule to the EU regs?

I would say that most drivers could safely do 56 hours driving every week - perhaps cut that down to 50 if it makes the authorities happier and scap the two week limit

Make simpler rest rules for drivers and different ones for those who are sleeping at home/base and those sleeping away

27

muckles:
However I do beleive the regulations are to complicated for everybody to understand them, incuding the authorities.
For instance.
Why do we need a WTD when we have tacho regs to limit our working day and week?
Why do you need a fortnightly limit when you have a weekly limit?

The WTD/RTD regulations are neither complicated or difficult to follow, if you take your correct breaks for the 561/2006 regs, the RTD will follow in most cases.

I think the “new” four year old regulations are simpler now than they have ever been, no compensation required for daily rest, a workable solution to board ferries and trains. Coupled to the fact that all drivers are now guaranteed a full weekend rest every 2nd week. A minimum daily rest period of 9 hours can only be good for road safety.

Did you ever do a shift as part of a team, you were working over a 30 hour period with less than 6 hours sleep, after a meal and a shower

We need a fortnightly limit to protect us from ourselves, what is the alternative? 56 hours driving every week?

4x9 + 2x10 = 56

If you decided to split the hours already available, then the industry would be up in arms if they could only drive 45 hours per week. Even if you limited the driving day to 9 hours, you would still be expected to do 54 hours driving per week.

28

I thought it was only illegal if you got caught? I’m only ever sorry when I get caught :laughing:

29

I can fully understand the horror to Wheelnut if he had to drive a total of 56 hours each week that would only leave him a 112 hours to do other things.The Great British ‘Working’ Man gone forever,too lazy today to do a decent days work to benefit himself and his family.

30

Armagedon:
I can fully understand the horror to Wheelnut if he had to drive a total of 56 hours each week that would only leave him a 112 hours to do other things.The Great British ‘Working’ Man gone forever,too lazy today to do a decent days work to benefit himself and his family.

You are so wrong in that assumption bud!

Within that 112 hours you have to board ferries, sit around in factory waiting rooms and actually do some proper graft securing loads rather than sat on your arse, like a container driver. On general or specialist work, there is loading, cleaning and unloading the truck. And you have forgotten the most important part, eating and sleeping!. Otherwise you make a point, rather a stupid point but a point nevertheless.

31

jimbo s back ,well tom is going to look up the WTD when he gets a chance lol, that should give him a sore head. He never thought europe was so strictly regulated,
He holds his own running rights and says it was similar ish to what i explained a o/d went through for their cpc in the EU.
He ran for a company that use analog tachos many yrs ago ,instead of logs and still remembers the fun that was …not…!
I have no doubt tom will ask me to post some qs for him when hes back in a wk or 2…
jimmy …manitoba canada…

32

Wheel Nut:

muckles:
However I do beleive the regulations are to complicated for everybody to understand them, incuding the authorities.
For instance.
Why do we need a WTD when we have tacho regs to limit our working day and week?
Why do you need a fortnightly limit when you have a weekly limit?

The WTD/RTD regulations are neither complicated or difficult to follow, if you take your correct breaks for the 561/2006 regs, the RTD will follow in most cases.

Rog did put a good argument for the WTD for drivers who to allow those who don’t do many hours driving, but it’s all the stuff that goes with it, but that could have been covered by a small change in the tacho regs, with out a whole new load of regs, Although they don’t seem to be enforcing it yet.

The same goes with time off as you’ve point out the new regs already take in account a full break every other weekend and compensation for those weekends you don’t get a full break and we have laws that give us 28 days holiday a year, do we really need another load of regs to limit working time even if they don’t interfere with the time you have off, it’s more admin and regs for you and your boss.

Wheel Nut:
I think the “new” four year old regulations are simpler now than they have ever been, no compensation required for daily rest, a workable solution to board ferries and trains. Coupled to the fact that all drivers are now guaranteed a full weekend rest every 2nd week. A minimum daily rest period of 9 hours can only be good for road safety.

Did you ever do a shift as part of a team, you were working over a 30 hour period with less than 6 hours sleep, after a meal and a shower

We need a fortnightly limit to protect us from ourselves, what is the alternative? 56 hours driving every week?

4x9 + 2x10 = 56

If you decided to split the hours already available, then the industry would be up in arms if they could only drive 45 hours per week. Even if you limited the driving day to 9 hours, you would still be expected to do 54 hours driving per week.

yes I did double man with 8 hours breaks,
I agree the new regs are simpler now, and , but still room for improvement, I personally think proper breaks are better for road safety than limiting fortnightly driving hours. And to be honest if you’re having a full weekend break every 2 weeks then it’s very hard to do 12 shifts in that period and therefore to do 112 hours driving, more realistically would be a theoretical maximum of 103 hours over 11 shifts and that would be some going.

33

JIMBO47:
jimbo s back ,well tom is going to look up the WTD when he gets a chance lol, that should give him a sore head. He never thought europe was so strictly regulated,
He holds his own running rights and says it was similar ish to what i explained a o/d went through for their cpc in the EU.
He ran for a company that use analog tachos many yrs ago ,instead of logs and still remembers the fun that was …not…!
I have no doubt tom will ask me to post some qs for him when hes back in a wk or 2…
jimmy …manitoba canada…

When he is finished reading them ask him to have a read of this

online.businesslink.gov.uk/Trans … hicles.pdf

This is what the EU law is on drivers hours so all of Europe has to comply tell him

Of course he could just register on here himself :bulb:

34

Toms a canadian and he says its interesting reading about the bs in the uk and says same [zb] just different depth compared with here .
He does agree that going into the states is a bit like the EU stricter rules,but he now runs canada only mainly west and far north (yellowknife and beyond) but has been coast to coast if it pays enough (runs with his wife fulltime) and as for registering well i dont know.
jimmy.

35

Wheel Nut:
The WTD/RTD regulations are neither complicated or difficult to follow, if you take your correct breaks for the 561/2006 regs, the RTD will follow in most cases.

This^

I’ve not paid any notice to the WTD, while working, since its introduction and just stuck with following the tacho rules. I have also never booked a minutes POA and I have never had a WTD infringement.

I don’t need the WTD regulations to tell me not to work more than 6 hours without a break, common sense and caffeine dependency take care of that. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

36

Wheel Nut:

Armagedon:
I can fully understand the horror to Wheelnut if he had to drive a total of 56 hours each week that would only leave him a 112 hours to do other things.The Great British ‘Working’ Man gone forever,too lazy today to do a decent days work to benefit himself and his family.

You are so wrong in that assumption bud!

Within that 112 hours you have to board ferries, sit around in factory waiting rooms and actually do some proper graft securing loads rather than sat on your arse, like a container driver. On general or specialist work, there is loading, cleaning and unloading the truck. And you have forgotten the most important part, eating and sleeping!. Otherwise you make a point, rather a stupid point but a point nevertheless.

what he said.

I’ve been searching the web too, and come up a bit stuck, but, in the years 2001 - 2010 the number of vehicles on the road increased by over 4 million which was in the region of 15% increase.

Let’s face it, the number of vehicles before that probably increased by MUCH more, so the roads are a MUCH busier place, so we can’t run around at 80mph for 16hrs driving straight anymore, there just isn’t the room and there’s many more idiots. And all the improvements in technology to make vehicles safer just makes the idiots more stupid.