jacknife!

Forgive me an old trucker’s anecdote:

Many years ago I drove for Jack Sunderland at Kings Langley, Herts, briefly. He was one of the first to buy in Volvo F86s. Synchro boxes. Good heaters. Power steering. Luxury! Made my old Atkinson with a 150 Gardner look sick.

A mate of mine who shall remain nameless jackknifed his brand new motor in winter. He put a big hole in the back of the cab and knocked off the exhaust silencer.

As punishment, Jack made him drive around like that for a couple of weeks. It was bloody cold, he said! He was a hard-looking man, but dressed in thick sweaters and a black leather jacket he looked even harder, especially with a few days growth on his face after a week of nights out.

But, he noticed that coming alongside car drivers at traffic lights, if he revved the engine, (berumba, berumba!), they would look around and see the big hole in the back of his cab, then politely wave him on first when the lights turned to green.

Happy days.

Tone

Jacknifing is caused by losing traction on the drive axle, the forward momentum of the trailer then pushes it round until cab and trailer meet, it happens so quickly that you can’t react most of the time, it is not always the driver’s fault, in fact in 99% of cases it isn’t, it’s usually caused by two things, slipping on something when going around a corner, like spilled diesel, ice, a manhole cover, those old vinyl zebra crossings (the one near the Oval cricket ground caught quite a few out) it’s only got to slip a little bit and then the trailer takes over and BANG :open_mouth:

The other way is by slamming on the brakes, the drive axle locks and slides down the camber, the trailer is still in a straight line and round she goes, now I’ve met quite a few lorry drivers over the years, not many of them randomly slam the anchors on for no reason, it’s usually some ■■■ in a car that causes them to brake to avoid killing the car’s occupants, the lorry jacknifes, the car is none the wiser, result, a jacknifed lorry and no other vehicles involved, illogical conclusion drawn by people who have no clue, the lorry driver’s fault :unamused:

I have experience of both types, I’ve got away with both, although how I don’t know, teh 1st was on the A20 in Eltham, a car pulled straight out of a side road, instinctively I jumped on the middle pedal, I was doing 40mph going down the road looking out of my passenger window, I have no idea what happened next but I got it back in shape, luckily this was in the days before road rage, so at Mottingham lights I manage to catch up with the offending car and was able to de-stress in the time honoured fashion of a good physical workout :laughing:

The other incident was recently, I was on a link between two interstates, it was ■■■■■■■ down and going around a 90deg right hand turn I must’ve hit some oil or something, all of a sudden I was going round and heading straight to the concrete wall, I came off the throttle, dipped the clutch and put some opposite lock on, again I was lucky, it straightened up :sunglasses:

In both cases I was driving normally, not like a nutter, not like an idiot, just going about my business, so all this talk about dangerous lorry drivers is just bollox, neither of my incidents were in bad conditions and I have more than one brain cell…somewhere :laughing:

Hi all

everyday on Sally Traffic it seems that 50 trucks a day are Jackknifing in the snow :open_mouth: :unamused: .

I have yet to experience this and touching snow because no wood is avalible as i write this i never will. but how are they viewed in the eyes of the law and employers?

if a trucker jackknifes and causes say a 30 vehicle pile up would he be charged with careless driving if they take the view the driver initiated the chain reaction for the jacknife to happen to begin with??,

is it a sackable offence? has anyone been sacked for jackknifing in the snow?

greg.

scanny77:
…an option that is increasingly being removed from us thanks to the overwhelming switch to those stupid autos.

You really haven’t got a clue about auto boxes have you? You’ve obviously never bothered to learn the skills to use them properly and instead of acknowledging your shortcomings in that department prefer just to slag them off. That’s the second post in a few days in which you have displayed your ignorance of how they work and how to use them, you really should stop now as you are just making a ■■■■ of your self. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Why not learn a new skill instead of dismissing them out of hand?

I assumed that he meant that you are not able to dip the clutch to disengage the transmission quickly, but have to reach for a switch/knob/selector which is much slower

del949:
I assumed that he meant that you are not able to dip the clutch to disengage the transmission quickly, but have to reach for a switch/knob/selector which is much slower

That’s the way I read it, and should a moderator be so offensive? Perhaps it was the coffee talking?

Tone

newmercman:
Jacknifing is caused by losing traction on the drive axle, the forward momentum of the trailer then pushes it round until cab and trailer meet, it happens so quickly that you can’t react most of the time, it is not always the driver’s fault, in fact in 99% of cases it isn’t,

www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64975

Carryfast:

newmercman:
Jacknifing is caused by losing traction on the drive axle, the forward momentum of the trailer then pushes it round until cab and trailer meet, it happens so quickly that you can’t react most of the time, it is not always the driver’s fault, in fact in 99% of cases it isn’t,

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64975

[zb]er :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

But yes, inappropriate speed is the cause, sometimes you don’t know that it’s inappropriate until it’s too late, however in the context of the original post we’re talking about jacknifing in snow and ice, well that’s the 1% mate, if the roads are covered in snow and ice then the possibility of jacknifing is greatly increased, you cannot just expect to be able to jump on the brakes without it all going the shape of the pear :bulb:

There is such a beast as a slow speed jackknife on ice, too. It nearly happened to me once when being pushed by a low loader trailer with poor brakes down a slight gradient. I got out of it by releasing the brakes and hitting the clutch pedal, but I still came to a stop with the nearside front wheel on a roundabout island and the cab facing the wrong way.

Luckily a car going round the roundabout (as you do) saw that I was in trouble and stopped.

Tone

Some of the older truckers on here will tell you it was very easy to jackknife before the days of ABS in any weather conditions as most of the trailers you picked up had very little or too much braking.

I’m sure newmercman will remember the time I drove two trucks to Italy at the same time, I went for a ride with newmercman in his new merc and his mate in another merc, they both decided that they would “take advantage” of me and sleep in rotation so I drove one truck for a few hrs then changed over and drove the other, I got no sleep as they kept talking to me when they were driving (mental) they had a great time, anyway driving thru France, St Diz I think, newmercman dicided to do an emergancy stop cos of some idiot, at the same time I was trying to wake his mate up, the next thing I saw was the arse end of a stopped trailer (50kph & a damp road) next thing was a 40ft yellow tilt sideways along the pavement with frogs jumping everywhere scary!!! dangerous at the time but funny afterwards, by the way newmercmans mate went from the bunk to the passenger footwell, now that was funny.

Slippery:
Some of the older truckers on here will tell you it was very easy to jackknife before the days of ABS in any weather conditions as most of the trailers you picked up had very little or too much braking.

I’m sure newmercman will remember the time I drove two trucks to Italy at the same time, I went for a ride with newmercman in his new merc and his mate in another merc, they both decided that they would “take advantage” of me and sleep in rotation so I drove one truck for a few hrs then changed over and drove the other, I got no sleep as they kept talking to me when they were driving (mental) they had a great time, anyway driving thru France, St Diz I think, newmercman dicided to do an emergancy stop cos of some idiot, at the same time I was trying to wake his mate up, the next thing I saw was the arse end of a stopped trailer (50kph & a damp road) next thing was a 40ft yellow tilt sideways along the pavement with frogs jumping everywhere scary!!! dangerous at the time but funny afterwards, by the way newmercmans mate went from the bunk to the passenger footwell, now that was funny.

Just think, if you had been driving a 16x8 Yank motor with a crappy, cramped, driving area and a big old sleeper pulling a big trailer on a 8 axle dolly that wouldn’t have happened.

The sleeper would have been far to big for him to make it all the way to the passenger footwell!!! :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :sunglasses:

Slippery:
Some of the older truckers on here will tell you it was very easy to jackknife before the days of ABS in any weather conditions as most of the trailers you picked up had very little or too much braking.

I’m sure newmercman will remember the time I drove two trucks to Italy at the same time, I went for a ride with newmercman in his new merc and his mate in another merc, they both decided that they would “take advantage” of me and sleep in rotation so I drove one truck for a few hrs then changed over and drove the other, I got no sleep as they kept talking to me when they were driving (mental) they had a great time, anyway driving thru France, St Diz I think, newmercman dicided to do an emergancy stop cos of some idiot, at the same time I was trying to wake his mate up, the next thing I saw was the arse end of a stopped trailer (50kph & a damp road) next thing was a 40ft yellow tilt sideways along the pavement with frogs jumping everywhere scary!!! dangerous at the time but funny afterwards, by the way newmercmans mate went from the bunk to the passenger footwell, now that was funny.

Hello Dad :wink:

I remember that, you’re right it was St Dizier, I don’t know how you managed to be tired though, I got plenty of kip :laughing:

My “big one” was a jacknife, and it happened a week after I started driving Class 1 (I’d been on rigids for a year first).

I was driving an old 2 series Scania with no speed limiter, pulling an empty Euroliner south on the M40 at about 3pm on a sunny, dry afternoon at about 55mph - our preferred running speed to keep the fuel bills down, although we did boot it if we were tight for time, which fortunately on this occasion, I wasn’t.

I was between junctions 11 and 12 when suddenly and without warning the brakes came on. All of them. Completely.

I only have a dim recollection of the event after that. I remember the world going by from left to right as I looked through the windscreen. I remember an almighty crunch as the unit hit the embankment. I remember a bloke called Robin forcing the cab door and I remember saying over and over “What’s Mick going to say?” (The subbie I was driving for).

Piecing things together afterwards, I apparently tried to steer straight, and evidently succeeded for a short while as the skid marks went straight for 100 yards and everyone else had time to get out of the way, so no other vehicles were involved, despite the fact I ended up blocking 2 lanes of the motorway, with my arse end hanging over the third. I take no credit for that, though, as it was instinct rather than judgement. The Police told me later that had I been going just a couple of MPH faster, or been driving something built less like a tank, I wouldn’t have survived. As it was, I escaped with severe bruising down my right side where I slammed into the door so hard there was a Lucy-shaped dent in it, and a bump on my head which remains to this day where the CB flew out and landed on me. Again, to this day I have a bizarre and irrational phobia of having a CB fitted in a lorry. Daft, but there we go. I’ve tried to get past it but to no avail, the CB was last seen in the back of my Landrover, after I chickened out of having it fitted yet again.

The bottom 2/3rds of the wagon were basically destroyed on impact - the o/s from hitting the embankment, and the n/s where the trailer slammed into it. The trailer was practically brand new. Since I was working for a subbie at the time, no trailer meant no job, but by coincidence I’d had a voicemail on my phone from a local tanker firm I’d applied for previously, offering me an interview. 24 hours later I had a new job, and a week after that I drove over my own skidmarks in a Taymix wagon. That nearly didn’t happen as I bottled it the first couple of times I went out after the crash, but they were understanding souls there, for all their faults, and bore with me until I pulled myself together. (Bob the Dog take note. :wink: )

To this day we don’t know the cause of what happened. VOSA found nothing wrong with the truck or trailer. Further investigation over the next few years, including talking to other drivers who had suffered the same experience, leads me to believe it was likely to have been a handbrake valve fault, but this has never been proven conclusively as the unit had been written off and scrapped by then. Both the owner and I wondered for a while whether I’d put my foot on the brake by accident, as I was wearing seriously chunky boots at the time, but I tried to reproduce the event a month later on Filton airfield (in a Taymix wagon, apologies to Rory if he reads this, 'cos I never asked or told him what I’d done with his truck… :blush: ) and it couldn’t be done, you can’t get that kind of braking force with your foot, it had to have been a catastrophic failure of some kind. The tacho from that day shows a vertical line where the brakes locked up all at once, with maximum pressure. So whatever it really was, it definately wasn’t driver error.

It’s not an experience I would recommend to anyone, although I do believe I’m now a safer driver for having seen exactly what these vehicles can do. The whole incident gave me a very healthy respect, if nothing else.

Ps. If your name is Robin, and you were driving the car transporter directly behind me when this happened in 2001, then I never got chance to properly thank you. So I’ll say it now. Thanks.

Coffeeholic:

scanny77:
…an option that is increasingly being removed from us thanks to the overwhelming switch to those stupid autos.

You really haven’t got a clue about auto boxes have you? You’ve obviously never bothered to learn the skills to use them properly and instead of acknowledging your shortcomings in that department prefer just to slag them off. That’s the second post in a few days in which you have displayed your ignorance of how they work and how to use them, you really should stop now as you are just making a ■■■■ of your self. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Why not learn a new skill instead of dismissing them out of hand?

^What he said.

An AMT box, which is what is fitted in lorries, NOT a true automatic, disengages the clutch and puts you in neutral if you take your foot completely off the right pedal. But then you should know that, since I told you only last week on this very forum. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Lucy:

Coffeeholic:

scanny77:
…an option that is increasingly being removed from us thanks to the overwhelming switch to those stupid autos.

You really haven’t got a clue about auto boxes have you? You’ve obviously never bothered to learn the skills to use them properly and instead of acknowledging your shortcomings in that department prefer just to slag them off. That’s the second post in a few days in which you have displayed your ignorance of how they work and how to use them, you really should stop now as you are just making a ■■■■ of your self. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Why not learn a new skill instead of dismissing them out of hand?

^What he said.

An AMT box, which is what is fitted in lorries, NOT a true automatic, disengages the clutch and puts you in neutral if you take your foot completely off the right pedal. But then you should know that, since I told you only last week on this very forum. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

The problem is Lucy, all these rough & tough steering wheel attendants do not feel macho if the lorry is making decisions for them. I read the same crap every day, normally from the same people about automatics. I do admit my first thought of using them was with trepidation, but that subsided within 5 minutes of playing in the yard with it.

Now I would probably kill a planner if someone suggested I drive a manual again. They make life so simple, they go up and down hills just as well as a manual and at the end of the day, we get out, relaxed!

del949:
I assumed that he meant that you are not able to dip the clutch to disengage the transmission quickly, but have to reach for a switch/knob/selector which is much slower

But, just coming off the throttle does the same as dipping clutch - unless your retarder kicks in of course.

Well, it does on the i-shift anyway… It goes into ‘coast mode’ or some 'elf n safety name for coasting.

waynedl:

del949:
I assumed that he meant that you are not able to dip the clutch to disengage the transmission quickly, but have to reach for a switch/knob/selector which is much slower

But, just coming off the throttle does the same as dipping clutch - unless your retarder kicks in of course.

Well, it does on the i-shift anyway… It goes into ‘coast mode’ or some 'elf n safety name for coasting.

Eco Roll is the posh name for it I think.

thanx for the frank and honest replies ladys and gents. so it seems there are a few reasons for getting it ■■■■■■■ in a knot and when she goes just hope you make the rite decision. just goes to show what can go wrong in the blink of an eye. lucy, thats one hell of a story and top marks for shaking it off and getting back in the saddle :smiley: . keep the pocket knife tales coming tho cuz it still amazes me what some people have experienced over the years and still around to tell the tale. stay safe :wink: .

Coffeeholic:

waynedl:

del949:
I assumed that he meant that you are not able to dip the clutch to disengage the transmission quickly, but have to reach for a switch/knob/selector which is much slower

But, just coming off the throttle does the same as dipping clutch - unless your retarder kicks in of course.

Well, it does on the i-shift anyway… It goes into ‘coast mode’ or some 'elf n safety name for coasting.

Eco Roll is the posh name for it I think.

Of course it is, because we all know coasting’s wrong :confused:

As far as I remember,
when you come off the throttle the clutch stays engaged, this enables engine braking.
If the clutch disengaged every time you come off the throttle you would never be able to use the engine brake
The clutch only disengages when the revs drop right down.