but everything has a maximum level too carryfast, so we all get onto £20 an hour then everything else goes up which in turn makes the £20 the equivalent of £10.
employing a polish driver on the same wage as me or you doesnt drive down the average wage. or we would have seen wages bottomed out when the miners all got hgv licences as part of redundancy etc.
war1974:
but everything has a maximum level too carryfast, so we all get onto £20 an hour then everything else goes up which in turn makes the £20 the equivalent of £10.employing a polish driver on the same wage as me or you doesnt drive down the average wage. or we would have seen wages bottomed out when the miners all got hgv licences as part of redundancy etc.
You’re dead right there bud that it doesn’t drive wages down. The problem is though that it HOLDS wages down. Companies cannot (legally) pay less than NMW but as long as they have a plentiful supply of drivers to whom £1000 per month sounds like Nirvana then employers have no incentives to match wages with real life inflation.
I don’t for one second blame an EE for coming here, moving 6 or 7 of his mates into a rented semi and then grafting their arses off for what are for us poor wages, but for them a Kings ransom.
Things may change when these immigrants settle here and have young families and therefore can’t live 20 to a house, but by then the damage will have been done.
Or a new wave of even cheaper Filipinos will be undercutting them. 
war1974:
but everything has a maximum level too carryfast, so we all get onto £20 an hour then everything else goes up which in turn makes the £20 the equivalent of £10.employing a polish driver on the same wage as me or you doesnt drive down the average wage. or we would have seen wages bottomed out when the miners all got hgv licences as part of redundancy etc.
An environment in which the demand for labour is in balance or exceeds that of supply by definition means higher wages ‘in real terms’.In which case there would be no possibility for the establishment to then try its usual trick of eroding wages by increasing prices.Because in that environment the idea is all about keeping wages ahead of prices and the establishment would have no option than to blink first.
The immigration angle in this case applying to most areas of the the typical working class job type spectrum not just drivers.Which as I said affects the average wage rate across the board.By that standard wages have already collapsed ‘in real terms’ relative to prices.Mostly as a result of deliberate over supply of the labour market by way of the combination of immigration and de industrialisation.
Which is why we’ve got an economy that is falling apart with unsustainable debt,lack of tax revenues,and a cost of living crisis that is being held together by unsustainable low interest rates.Which are effectively a tax on savers to provide what is effectively housing benefit,amongst other low income top up benefits being used to subsidise the profits made from cheap labour employment.
Conor:
Carryfast:
What matters in this case is the fact that we are being governed by a regime and an agenda which is based on a corrupted form of capitalism that is all about minimising wage costs.The importation of cheap east european labour with much lower wage expectations being just a part of that agenda.Which benefits you directly by lower prices for the goods you pay in the shops.
The cost difference of goods in the shops caused by lower wages is so vanishingly small as to be negligible. Take as an example a 26 pallet load of UHT milk which takes one day to load, deliver and unload. Remove the weight of the packaging and that will be around 25,000 litres. If the driver’s pay can be cut by £50 per day, that works out as a fifth of a penny saving per litre.
The bottom line is that mass migration is carried out for the sole benefit of the farmer/land owner/ factory owner/ banker class to the detriment of the working class. Always has been, read John Steinbeck’s classic novel “The Grapes of Wrath” to see an eerily similar description of what is happening today but set 80 years ago and on a different continent, and it always will be.
As this class also controls the mainstream media, the BBC etc, they don’t have much trouble persuading feeble-minded turkeys to vote for Christmas…
Must say quite astonished at some of the replys, but the whole point of this thread was how astonished I was to see the ad written in POLISH. Yes I am not fluent in any other language, and have never had any major problems driving abroad. and so you could argue that not being able to read English should not be a job stopper. BUT surely there are enough British or English speaking Drivers to fill these vacancies because if there are then why is there a need to Advertise for drivers in POLISH ! unless they are being paid less, otherwise it just does not make any sense. PLUS to all you doubters out there just speak to anybody in the construction business, they went through this job invasion from Eastern European Labour starting over 10 years ago, and it has decimated construction jobs in the big city`s. SO sleep on that because if it continues drivers jobs will go the same way.
Harry Monk:
Conor:
Carryfast:
What matters in this case is the fact that we are being governed by a regime and an agenda which is based on a corrupted form of capitalism that is all about minimising wage costs.The importation of cheap east european labour with much lower wage expectations being just a part of that agenda.Which benefits you directly by lower prices for the goods you pay in the shops.
The cost difference of goods in the shops caused by lower wages is so vanishingly small as to be negligible. Take as an example a 26 pallet load of UHT milk which takes one day to load, deliver and unload. Remove the weight of the packaging and that will be around 25,000 litres. If the driver’s pay can be cut by £50 per day, that works out as a fifth of a penny saving per litre.
The bottom line is that mass migration is carried out for the sole benefit of the farmer/land owner/ factory owner/ banker class to the detriment of the working class. Always has been, read John Steinbeck’s classic novel “The Grapes of Wrath” to see an eerily similar description of what is happening today but set 80 years ago and on a different continent, and it always will be.
As this class also controls the mainstream media, the BBC etc, they don’t have much trouble persuading feeble-minded turkeys to vote for Christmas…
Required viewing to appreciate the reasons .
burnley-si:
i can speak very good arabic/french/spanish but ill be damned if i can read iti cant be doing with it when they cant speak a word of english and the drive and english truck
Do they still run Erfs 
Carryfast:
The language issue is a total red herring or there would never have been such a thing as international haulage.
The language issue is not a red herring at all.
Carryfast:
What matters in this case is the fact that…
as long as the employee can understand the instructions given and that he needs to adhere to.
It might be reasonable to assume ,for example… a Turkish truck driver visiting here delivering here might struggle to understand some stuff, but its not understandable for a UK employer to send out an employee who has no grasp verbally or written of what he is doing in English. Of course his RAMS would of identified any potential problem.
Mike-C:
Carryfast:
The language issue is a total red herring or there would never have been such a thing as international haulage.The language issue is not a red herring at all.
Carryfast:
What matters in this case is the fact that…as long as the employee can understand the instructions given and that he needs to adhere to.
It might be reasonable to assume ,for example… a Turkish truck driver visiting here delivering here might struggle to understand some stuff, but its not understandable for a UK employer to send out an employee who has no grasp verbally or written of what he is doing in English. Of course his RAMS would of identified any potential problem.
Realistically it would take no more understanding for a foreign driver to be running domestically wether based,or just running on cabotage operations, within any foreign country environment.Than to be running into and out of any of those foreign countries on a regular international basis while just being based in the home country.
That understanding obviously only needing to be sufficient to understand loading/unloading point instructions/paperwork and to be able to have a limited understanding of,or at least be able to take a good educated guess at,local road traffic order and direction signs etc.None of which would require the type of fluency needed to understand and fill out a detailed foreign employment form.
IE if we’re going to have controls on cheap/cheap immigrant labour then at least lets not make any pretence as to the reasoning for those controls and the need for them.
Carryfast:
Mike-C:
Carryfast:
The language issue is a total red herring or there would never have been such a thing as international haulage.The language issue is not a red herring at all.
Carryfast:
What matters in this case is the fact that…as long as the employee can understand the instructions given and that he needs to adhere to.
It might be reasonable to assume ,for example… a Turkish truck driver visiting here delivering here might struggle to understand some stuff, but its not understandable for a UK employer to send out an employee who has no grasp verbally or written of what he is doing in English. Of course his RAMS would of identified any potential problem.
Realistically it would take no more understanding for a foreign driver to be running domestically wether based,or just running on cabotage operations, within any foreign country environment.Than to be running into and out of any of those foreign countries on a regular international basis while just being based in the home country.
That understanding obviously only needing to be sufficient to understand loading/unloading point instructions/paperwork and to be able to have a limited understanding of,or at least be able to take a good educated guess at,local road traffic order and direction signs etc.None of which would require the type of fluency needed to understand and fill out a detailed foreign employment form.
IE if we’re going to have controls on cheap/cheap immigrant labour then at least lets not make any pretence as to the reasoning for those controls and the need for them.
Too long that mate, and using the words “realistically”, and “understanding”. Lets just stick to the facts, me or you can drive to Greece and around Greece, no probs. No requirement for anything.Greeks can drive here too. You cannot employ someone who does not speak or understand English here in the UK if his job is to use it and understand it. HSE have your arse for it as you would of been expected to do a RAMS, and your recruitmentn process would show (or not as the case may be) that they could understand English.
Still the talk in freight website circles of a driver shortage becoming a big problem
theloadstar.co.uk/party-parliame … ge-crisis/
Do you believe this is just clever justification by the industry for cross border labour movement? Or do you think there is an overall shortage that is hard to gauge in a local level? I have no thoughts myself, not currently being in the industry just thought worth sharing the link.
Mike-C:
You cannot employ someone who does not speak or understand English here in the UK if his job is to use it and understand it. HSE have your arse for it as you would of been expected to do a RAMS, and your recruitmentn process would show (or not as the case may be) that they could understand English.
Is there any legal requirement that says that the ability to speak reasonably fluent English has to be there ‘before’ the recruitment stage as opposed to learning it as part of that recruitment.IE the situation being described seems to be a targeted ‘advertising’ campaign being directed specifically at attracting East Euro ‘applicants’.With learning of English probably being a condition of a job ‘offer’ not an ‘interview’.
While according to the info the language requirements concerning EU movement of labour only have to reflect the ‘type’ of job in question they are not a blanket condition.In which case the fact that a foreign truck driver,who can’t speak fluent English,can be considered as able to work throughout Europe on an international running basis,might arguably also fit the same definition if working on cabotage or domestically based operations.
While this suggests that their are no language conditions applicable to EU movement of labour anyway under EU law.
Freight Dog:
Still the talk in freight website circles of a driver shortage becoming a big problemtheloadstar.co.uk/party-parliame … ge-crisis/
Do you believe this is just clever justification by the industry for cross border labour movement? Or do you think there is an overall shortage that is hard to gauge in a local level? I have no thoughts myself, not currently being in the industry just thought worth sharing the link.
In the case of EU movement of labour they don’t need to show any ‘justification’.The fact is if UKIP can’t create a landslide election result just on this issue alone,let alone loss of sovereignty and our net contributions for the privilege of being in a trade deficit for the benefit of Germany,this country deserves to sink.
Blimey I’m agreeing with what Carryfast and harry monk are saying I best have a lie down lol.
Although I think a reasonable grasp of the language of the country you live in is needed.
Freight Dog:
Do you believe this is just clever justification by the industry for cross border labour movement? Or do you think there is an overall shortage that is hard to gauge in a local level? I have no thoughts myself, not currently being in the industry just thought worth sharing the link.
I think its similar tactics to those in your industry, create a false shortage of staff to reduce pay and terms. There is no shortage of drivers, just like there’s no shortage of crew.
i would say looking at the endless threads on here about hitting bridges/accidents/errors that there is a huge shortage of drivers, but an abundance of steering wheel attendants.
war1974:
i would say looking at the endless threads on here about hitting bridges/accidents/errors that there is a huge shortage of drivers, but an abundance of steering wheel attendants.
Thats all we need…isn’t it!?
its the future 
war1974:
its the future
Which ironically and logically can only translate as a deflationary downward spiral.At which point we would be in a very similar situation to that of the 1930’s. Where income levels are too low to sustain the type of spending power needed to make a modern developed economy work.
A bit off topic but, didn’t NEXT advertise warehouse jobs in Poland before advertising them over here??