kr79:
Talking of Italian number plates why do there trailers have two different number plates on them?
In most European countries trailers are registered in their own right, in the same way as tractors.
Ross.
Yeah the trailers all had ‘Rimorchio’ on the plate, which is eyetie for trailer, rather cool I thought 
Kev, CAT are out of the engine market, but ■■■■■■■ are still available, International, Volvo, Kenworth, Peterbilt, Freightliner and Western Star are all available with one. The Paccar lump is the Daf engine, the next Merc engine is infact a Detroit Diesel, it’s been out since 07 or 08 I think.
It is IVECO related too, FIAT (the parent company) now own Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, there’s talk of them entering the heavy truck market again under the Dodge brand, if they do I hope they ressurect that old FIAT V8 
BTW, was the FIAT V8 always a FIAT engine, or was it based on the UNIC design, or even the OM?
newmercman:
BTW, was the FIAT V8 always a FIAT engine, or was it based on the UNIC design, or even the OM?
As I remember Fiat first put the V8 in a truck in 1977 in the 170NT35, a mate of mine had one doing ‘Swiss’ with a straight through exhaust!! sounded mad in the St Die tunnel:)
I heard that the same engine in marine aplication can deliver 1,500hp!!! and is fitted in pairs in naval patroll boats:@
Ross.
That fiat/iveco would be a good base for a modern engine as it was big about 17 litres.
Unless they do some work on that daf engine they are wasting there time. I’m driving a cf at the moment and it couldn’t pull your ■■■■■■■■ back and there aint exactly many hills on the a 13 
I was talking to my dad and he got out of a scania r500 to a 510xf and recons it was embarrassing on the hills.
And I don’t know if you have ad blue out there but the dad system seems to give a bit of trouble.
It must just of been Europe ■■■■■■■ pulled out of as that was stated as one of the reasons for shutting foden 
Shame as I had a soft spot for a plastic lorry.
A firm my Dad was TM at had a 170-35, I went to Holyhead in it once, it was a beast.
Ross, I’ve seen some older V8 ones in Italy, 170-33s, they had the first model of the cab that went on to be the TEC cab, it had a grille that never went to the edge of the cab, there was a UNIC around with the same cab, so I’m still unsure who’s V8 it was in the first place
Kev, Wire on here has a new Pete with the MX engine, it’s a 455hp, he came from a 600 CAT…he ain’t happy 
Ive been very busy today and been a bit of an anorak spent time trying to find out where the iveco v8 came from. Everything i looked at said fiat but as fiat had already bought om unic and lancia it could have come from anywhere.
I bet he is gutted it was bad enough going from a 360 MAN to the daf.
Gentlemen, Good Evening, you are discussing one very good truck and engine, the Fiat- Unic V8. Quite an interesting history, Unic, owned by Simca, in turn owned by Fiat, (the Agnelli family) since 1960.In the 50s and 60s percieved not as “quality” as Willeme or Berliet, but lighter and easier to drive, synchro boxes, power steering, lighter controls. Main production site at that time 1 Quai National Putaux (Seine). Produced a range of engines employing the patent Saurer injection process. Some of which were fitted to the short lived Willeme-Unic,LD610 Shark nose, type RB6ZU122, at 165hp, with a ZFgearbox, produced at Willemes plant at 58 Rue Noel Pons,Nanterre (Seine). Unic were very good engineers, and their sales volumes arguably number two in the French market to Berliet. They enjoyed a high degree of autonomy within the Fiat organisation. In the 60s Unics top model was the 150hp Izoard/Lauteret/Galibier range, (has there ever been a more handsome conventional range)? Jacques Vendamme designed the original V8 Mid 60s, the eventual aim a compact unit to give 225 to270hp. But 1969, what a storm! 14.88litre, 130x135 Saurer injection,340hp at 2400rpm 110metre kilos @1400rpm torque,FiatB1818 air range change 8speed gearbox, Unic single reduction axle of13tonnes capacity. And the cream, the Fiat cab,Type H, (as on the 619 and 684 in the UK), modified by Fernand in Geneva with a flat floor, and hydraulic tilt! This engine continued to power the Unic Izoard, OM120, and 260, up untill the production moved to Trappes in 1975, and the “new” Fiat 17.2litre V8 Was adopted, the premium tractor being the (Iveco) Unic190NT 33. But as any Unic afficianado will tell you, that is really a French Engine!!! So that is a little of its history. Personally I rated this engine as one of the best V8s ever. Driveability, with a 13sp Fuller, I do not think that anything could in its day match it. Why were there not more sold in the UK, easy,because the Italian truck dealers discovered that to buy a 170.35 in the UK was a lot cheaper than in Italy. Thus started a healthy re-import of RHD exotica, that must have confused the management at Concorde Road Acton, (Fiats UK HQ) as the dealers were selling plenty, but no registrations were appearing on the statistics!!!! Certainly when I was working in Italy I used to see quite obviously ex UK spec 170.35s at Fiat/OM dealers. And on the road, however much I liked our Saviem SM340s, with the (ashmatic) 16Litre MAN V8, in truth it could not, (and neither could the "fat"Scania V8) hold a candle to that Stallion Fiat, (which really was a Unic)! Hope I hav`nt bored you, but some lorries just get to you!Cheerio for now.
I was hoping you’d come along with your encyclopediacal (is that a word?) knowledge
You can join our little club of Italian V8 fans, I’m still going to lean towards that Swedish bent 8 as my all time favourite though, having owned and driven various versions of both, I have to say the Scania is the better lorry, especially the 143-450, but even the best 450 wouldn’t catch a 480 TurboStar, especially one with a proper (13spd Fuller) gearbox and the 520 version in the EuroStar was even better still, I took out all the SAMT electrics on mine and had a standard Twin Splitter, in my opinion, the best engine/box combination of them all
Saying all that, I’d take a 141 over any of them 
newmercman:
They don’t have an easy life in Italy either, my Italian is a bit rusty (no pun intended
You might be onto something there alright. Heard recently that the Sicilian Hauliers have an overnight run of 1,400kms from Palermo to the North of Italy hauling fruit and veg produce. They use top power wagon and drags…600bhp plus Swedish V8’s being the staple diet…and nothing is loaded less than 60 tonnes. The load has to be delivered by morning to the Supermarkets in the North. They drive at 90km/hr up until 11.00pm and then all of a sudden run at 130km/hr plus,all the way for the rest of the night…and guess what…no one stops or interferes with them… 
Riverstick:
newmercman:
They don’t have an easy life in Italy either, my Italian is a bit rusty (no pun intendedYou might be onto something there alright. Heard recently that the Sicilian Hauliers have an overnight run of 1,400kms from Palermo to the North of Italy hauling fruit and veg produce. They use top power wagon and drags…600bhp plus Swedish V8’s being the staple diet…and nothing is loaded less than 60 tonnes. The load has to be delivered by morning to the Supermarkets in the North. They drive at 90km/hr up until 11.00pm and then all of a sudden run at 130km/hr plus,all the way for the rest of the night…and guess what…no one stops or interferes with them…
That’s the way it’s always been, in the old days it was wagon and drags on Sicillian or RC plates, usually a TurboStar, now you can’t tell where they come from…until it gets dark…and then…WHOOOOOSH
The Polizia Stradale make themselves easy to spot by driving around with their blue lights flashing
They obviously don’t loose any sleep over digital tachos,road speed limiters,bent coppers trying to milk them of money etc…I imagine the Polizia don’t bother them for a reason… 
Saviem:
Gentlemen, Good Evening, you are discussing one very good truck and engine, the Fiat- Unic V8. Quite an interesting history, Unic, owned by Simca, in turn owned by Fiat, (the Agnelli family) since 1960.In the 50s and 60s percieved not as “quality” as Willeme or Berliet, but lighter and easier to drive, synchro boxes, power steering, lighter controls. Main production site at that time 1 Quai National Putaux (Seine). Produced a range of engines employing the patent Saurer injection process. Some of which were fitted to the short lived Willeme-Unic,LD610 Shark nose, type RB6ZU122, at 165hp, with a ZFgearbox, produced at Willemes plant at 58 Rue Noel Pons,Nanterre (Seine). Unic were very good engineers, and their sales volumes arguably number two in the French market to Berliet. They enjoyed a high degree of autonomy within the Fiat organisation. In the 60s Unics top model was the 150hp Izoard/Lauteret/Galibier range, (has there ever been a more handsome conventional range)? Jacques Vendamme designed the original V8 Mid 60s, the eventual aim a compact unit to give 225 to270hp. But 1969, what a storm! 14.88litre, 130x135 Saurer injection,340hp at 2400rpm 110metre kilos @1400rpm torque,FiatB1818 air range change 8speed gearbox, Unic single reduction axle of13tonnes capacity. And the cream, the Fiat cab,Type H, (as on the 619 and 684 in the UK), modified by Fernand in Geneva with a flat floor, and hydraulic tilt! This engine continued to power the Unic Izoard, OM120, and 260, up untill the production moved to Trappes in 1975, and the “new” Fiat 17.2litre V8 Was adopted, the premium tractor being the (Iveco) Unic190NT 33. But as any Unic afficianado will tell you, that is really a French Engine!!! So that is a little of its history. Personally I rated this engine as one of the best V8s ever. Driveability, with a 13sp Fuller, I do not think that anything could in its day match it. Why were there not more sold in the UK, easy,because the Italian truck dealers discovered that to buy a 170.35 in the UK was a lot cheaper than in Italy. Thus started a healthy re-import of RHD exotica, that must have confused the management at Concorde Road Acton, (Fiats UK HQ) as the dealers were selling plenty, but no registrations were appearing on the statistics!!!! Certainly when I was working in Italy I used to see quite obviously ex UK spec 170.35s at Fiat/OM dealers. And on the road, however much I liked our Saviem SM340s, with the (ashmatic) 16Litre MAN V8, in truth it could not, (and neither could the "fat"Scania V8) hold a candle to that Stallion Fiat, (which really was a Unic)! Hope I hav`nt bored you, but some lorries just get to you!Cheerio for now.
…not boring at all - enlightenment! I seem to recall back in the early 70’s when my big bro was an apprentice at the Fiat Auto works. I am sure that there was some association even back then with Fiat cars and Renault (although never publicised) Didn’t the Chris Hudson group run some of the earlier larger engined top end Fiats? They were a beautiful machine and I think that their reputation for poor mpg was linked to the temptation of opening that seemingly bottomless throttle. I also recollect that when any maintenence work was done under the rocker covers, we had to send out for a skilled Fiat technician who had an assortment of guages and shims and he fiddled about under the cab until the beast was running sweet. Lovely piece of kit and plenty still knocking about in sunnier groves.
Riverstick:
They obviously don’t loose any sleep over digital tachos,road speed limiters,bent coppers trying to milk them of money etc…I imagine the Polizia don’t bother them for a reason…
Corruption?..In Italy…No way
Riverstick:
newmercman:
They don’t have an easy life in Italy either, my Italian is a bit rusty (no pun intendedYou might be onto something there alright. Heard recently that the Sicilian Hauliers have an overnight run of 1,400kms from Palermo to the North of Italy hauling fruit and veg produce. They use top power wagon and drags…600bhp plus Swedish V8’s being the staple diet…and nothing is loaded less than 60 tonnes. The load has to be delivered by morning to the Supermarkets in the North. They drive at 90km/hr up until 11.00pm and then all of a sudden run at 130km/hr plus,all the way for the rest of the night…and guess what…no one stops or interferes with them…
I knew an Italian guy who lived near me (Toni Melli, r.i.p) who drove doing just that. Hugh mileage runs in one go and back, driving for an Italian transport Co which was “well connected”. No speeding tickets, no being pulled over. Just get the fruit to market asap. I know we all hear the exagerated tales, but this guy was honest. He showed me the ropes before I started on a regular Italian run.
Regards,
Mark.
My dad done euro work for about 10 years and Italian work was his favourite despite all scare stories along the way.
Mark,
I don’t think the rumours were exaggerated at all, Italy is run by two very powerful organisations, the Catholic Church and the Mafia, it’s hard to say which one is more corrupt
As for running hooky, it was a free for all as soon as it got dark, being in a RHD motor you only had to look into the cabs of the lorries you overtook, nearly all of them had tachos that were not working, must be those dodgy Italian electrics again
newmercman:
Mark,I don’t think the rumours were exaggerated at all, Italy is run by two very powerful organisations, the Catholic Church and the Mafia, it’s hard to say which one is more corrupt
As for running hooky, it was a free for all as soon as it got dark, being in a RHD motor you only had to look into the cabs of the lorries you overtook, nearly all of them had tachos that were not working, must be those dodgy Italian electrics again
Lol, I know! I did alot of Italian work, the Italian fridges used to hammer past. I have also been at the “sharp end” of both corruption with fines etc and back-handers for customs (especially Rogoredo, what a ■■■■■ -hole!) and also a very near hijacking in Melzo, involving a £130,000 Alfa Romeo Coupe’, Royal Doulton gold-plate china and a large load of “Fruit of the Loom” clothing , but thats another story!!
As for dodgy electrics, my Merc used to develop one now and then in the dark in Italy, it must’ve been the climate!! Mostly on a Friday coz “Friday night is Groupage night!” 
Regards,
Mark.
Hello all, newmercman, thanks for the very kind comments, equally I enjoy your Brandt blog, you are carrying on Phill Llewellyn`s tradition very well! Really I only know odd bits about odd bits of our industry. I was lucky enough to be working when each country had a proper non homoginised lorry building industry, and lots of different regulation affecting national vehicle type, and specification, which gave character to the products. You are right about the quality issues of Fiat, (Iveco), yes the Scania was a better overall product, although I have never been a big Scania fan, (apart from that wonderful LB76, oh what a lorry). Yet years later I was to run a fair few of the inline 6s back in the UK. Do any of you remember the French Battaile family? Specialists in driving all sorts of vehicles, on two wheels. Fiat sponsored them one year, when the 170.26 range was being launched. Our French management became very agitated at this, so instructions went out to Via Trivulzio to find an “outstanding” stunt man. Enter Holer Togni, “stunt cars”. Boy, was this guy good, and could he drive,he could pop a (fat) Berliet V8, 356hp, up on two wheels, and it did not matter if it was a car park, or a long street circuit,unlike others he did it “com brio” at speed unemaginable. It became a great marketing tool, and he was very good fun to be with. Corporate life is not all po faced! thanks to every contributor, Cheerio for now.
Thank you for the kind comments Saviem, to be compared to the greatest road trip writer of all time is some accolade, it makes all the hard work involved worth it
I remember the Bataille family, Gilbert did a two wheel stunt at the launch of the Leyland Roadrunner as I remember, I think they welded up the diff so that he could have one side airborne and retain drive to the wheels on terra firma. I hope they remembered that part before they put that chassis on their demo fleet
As you say, each country had its own individual style, power outputs were no different really, the average in the 60s throughout Europe was 20hp either side of 200hp, gearboxes were all constant mesh until the Swedes came along, in fact the biggest difference I can see is that the Europeans all offered sleeper cabs twenty years before the Brits did, even old soldiers like the 684 had room behind the seats for a weary driver to take 40 winks
newmercman:
Thank you for the kind comments Saviem, to be compared to the greatest road trip writer of all time is some accolade, it makes all the hard work involved worth itI remember the Bataille family, Gilbert did a two wheel stunt at the launch of the Leyland Roadrunner as I remember, I think they welded up the diff so that he could have one side airborne and retain drive to the wheels on terra firma. I hope they remembered that part before they put that chassis on their demo fleet
As you say, each country had its own individual style, power outputs were no different really, the average in the 60s throughout Europe was 20hp either side of 200hp, gearboxes were all constant mesh until the Swedes came along, in fact the biggest difference I can see is that the Europeans all offered sleeper cabs twenty years before the Brits did, even old soldiers like the 684 had room behind the seats for a weary driver to take 40 winks
I remember that advertising campaign - they were good wern’t they! (trying not to stray too far away from the Torino thread) I think I’m right in saying that quite a few of the British manufacturers had offered the sleeper option quite early on in the industry. I think that some of the earlier nationalised firms with the strong union bases, had discouraged the use of a bunk within the working area, although that’s probably not the main reason. Even now, there are a lot of operators who would much prefer more payload and less comfort zone (how many times have you been asked to put boxes, crates, spares etc in your cab when you’ve got 40’ of platform behind you!) An old chap once told me over a pint (so it must be true) that Marsdens Coachbuilders - who had a long association with Bedford, were making sleeper cabs for the pantech removal types early on in the post war years so maybe we were first, though I wouldn’t have thought they were Eurostar, Globetrotter or Roadhaus spec.