Winseer:
Schofield:
Im going to start wearing a burka and sunglasses at work.That won’t stop the cameras looking at you - but at least the BBC will then show you in a good light!
Kerragy:
kcrussell25:
toby1234abc:
Kcrussell wrote its ok for relevant people to watch the footage in specific circumstances.
Sorry mate, that is a load of rubbish and your work mates swallowed that corporate garbage PC waffle .Sorry but I think you will find it is right. You will find it is easy for companies to put cameras in on the grounds of security and health and safety. You also have no realistic expectation of a right to privacy in public. It is a matter of if they want the arguement with the workforce. Unfortunately it is not “corporate garbage” these days. 20 or 30 years ago you trusted you employees as they wouldn’t help themselves or people wouldn’t sue if they tripped over their own foot. We are in a situation of our own making. Like the thread about weight limits on seats. If insurance companies start raising premiums for those who don’t have the cameras it may happen sooner rather than later. I saw the comment the comment from OLAV JAY (who I do feel talks a lot of sense) saying that his place said they would go for constructive dismissal if they were put in. On what grounds? It seems their boss wanted to keep their drivers so let it go and they have been ok. Also the tribunal costs even if employers win put them off going.
I am one of the relevant people. Working in retail the main reason we review it is for investigating theft. After that it is around accidents or complaints of bullying/harassment. There are other circumstances but they are more an as or when you make a decision if it is needed to be reviewed at the time. A key point is that we do have to be able to justify that decision. If I want to look I know I could be asked why I made that decision and if I do not have a valid reason I will be disciplined. People have been sacked in the past for this. I havn’t checked the cameras for weeks. The last occasion was when someone came to me with concerns that someone else was helping themselves. When we checked the cameras they were and have since been sacked.
There should be no reason not to record the driver for use in event of an accident or robbery. Maybe the biggest reason so many are against it is there is the A1 thread of guys using their phone and even driving round here where I live drivers on their phone is a common sight.
Surely if you are doing nothing wrong you should be greatful for the help to clear you in an accident? Or is it the many who openly admit to cutting corners are worried if it happens at the wrong time it will catch them out? I will admit there are things I do at work that would have me in the office if it was seen at the time. I speak to some of the older guys who deliver to us and they say thew job has changed now as they can’t take the mickey the way they used to because of trackers etc. Some would park up for 2 hours and say there were delayed to get overtime in for their holidays. They admit that can’t be done any more.
A final point that is likely to be of more interest to everyone is here is that there are no cameras in our canteen. I was told that this is because it is illegal to film people eating whilst they are on break. The understanding I have is that these cameras only work when the ignition is on? How this works when you are on break and want the ignition on for your windows or the radio could be an interesting point? I am working this weekend and will check the policy if I get a chance
With respect, that is the epitome of Corporate Garbage PC Waffle.
What other employee has a camera pointing specifically at them over the course of a fifteen hour shift? What are these cameras supposed to prove? Drivers get tired on the fifth Night Shift of the week? Big surprise, it isn’t the fault of the driver, it’s the result of being permitted, ergo expected, to work the hours we work. Let me tell you, if I ever have one fitted it will record plenty of yawning and rubbing of eyes towards the end of a days graft. Sorry about that, I’m human, I own up in advance to the fact that I get tired, pick my nose, drink a Diet Coke, listen to The Archers and sing along to a variety of music that I would really prefer to remain my secret, while driving. I have also on occasion clipped a kerb or roundabout and clattered the odd step on a blindside reverse.
So basically camera installers, up yours. There’s a bigger social benefit to paying me a wage to deliver stuff around the countryside whilst armpit ■■■■■■■ along with the Bay City Rollers than there is to paying Google & Mercedes bloody Benz to develop a truck that drives itself in order to enable DHL or XPO or whoever to increase the profit margin for their shareholders at our nations expense under the guise of “safety”.
If there is an argument to fit this crap in truck cabs, then there is an argument to fit it in Commercial Plane Cockpits, Train Cabs, Police Cars, Taxi Cabs. Excavator Cabs & Crane Cabs. In fact there are a lot of Industries where it could be argued there is a more pressing need for this tech than Road Haulage.
Either I am not making it clear or your not getting my point.
Why point a camera at someone sat at a desk. Whats the worst they can do? Spill a cup of coffee on their comeputer?
I don’t think they will be worried about a driver yawning on his 5th shift but they will be worried about him playing on his phone as he drives straight into the back of stationary traffic. If your job works to many/wrong hours have you looked for something else? If you are so tired that you feel unfit to drive you need to stop and take a break. If it is just the general yawning at the end of the day that won’t be an issue as everyone does that. I don’t know if there is a medical reason for the diet coke but as a night worker I find the full sugar version more helpful in providing a ‘lift’ compared to sugar free drinks.
I get your point about planes etc but specifically planes they have the voice and data recorders already. Also they have a second person in there looking at you and a strong culture of reporting problems or safety issues. Regards trains, taxies etc even planes how many people are killed in plane/train crashes etc due to driver or pilot error as apposed to technical problems? Planes especially it is very rare. Compare that to how many killed or how many bridges are hit by lorry drivers not paying attention?
Unfortunately driving has got to the standard where things like this are needed. That may not be due to you personally but it is the way the industry like so many others has gone. As has been commented else where is it worth saving a bit on wages if they will destroy the trucks worth a 100k? At the time employers thought yes. I wonder if they still do?
Rottweiler22:
That Corcra website makes me sick, talking about the cameras “positively effecting driver behaviour”. Talk about carrot and stick, electric shock collars positively effect dog’s behaviour, the way they talk about cameras is dehumanising.Some, like KCRussell, seem to have an “if you’re doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide” sort of philosophy, and that a driver should happily accept in-cab cameras to prove they’re not doing anything wrong, but that’s their opinion. Each to their own, but I’m not doing anything wrong when I take a s***, it doesn’t mean I need a camera pointing at me for me to prove it.
Sadly, one thing is true, and that is that in-cab cameras are very difficult to oppose. Throw around phrases like “positively effect driver behaviour”, “improve safety”, “reduce numbers of accidents”, whatever, and the faceless, corporate big nobs will be all over them, especially if they bring the insurance down. Little thought to the driver, who can spend 120 hours every week, working, eating and sleeping in his cab, his wife, kids, pets and hobbies left at home hundreds of miles away, in his home he only sees for two days every week. Not being able to cuddle his wife when she’s sad, or hug his kid because they’re getting bullied at school… One slip of the steering wheel could kill dozens of people, and one mistake on his tacho could cost him a month’s wage. Transport managers who’ve never been in a truck expecting him to cram 20 hours of work into a 15-hour day, to drive efficiently in order to save fuel, and to meet impossible deadlines. When he gets to his drop, his keys are confiscated, trailer locked onto a bay, and has to sit in a holding cell for three hours, waiting for a load of jobsworth foreigners to tip him. Other motorists brake checking him, cutting him up, and at the end of the day having to wear flip-flops in the service showers, the list goes on… All for a job, to feed, clothe and provide warmth to himself and his loved ones. Things get worse, now he has a camera pointed at him for all of his working time, another thing to contend with. He daren’t sip his coffee, change his radio, eat his sandwich, because if he has an accident, the footage will be used against him… It’s too far, and the clinical, logical, pragmatic thought of the corporate, PC brigade won’t see it, afterall, if you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to hide, but they don’t see the trials and tribulations of the job that a driver has, and it will push people over the edge, and out of the industry.
If one day, I find a camera in my cab, my letter of resignation will be on the manager’s desk the next day, and if they become the norm, I will be leaving the industry, simple as. Soon, I fear they will become the norm, and any disgruntlement will be met with “it’s just the way the job is…” from a lower manager. I’m not having a camera pointed at me for a large majority of my week, not for £9.50 per hour…
Probably my nothing to hide, nothing to fear attitude comes from near 20 years in retail working under cameras. I don’t even think about them. Maybe when they first went in the ‘old guys’ already there didn’t like it such as you now with trucks. I wasn’t there so I don’t know but they have since I started so know no different. I think it is likely that they will become standard across the next few years. Either some EU law to put them in (made in Europe so still be fitted, much like kph on the speedo) or insurance companies will insist on it saying the trucks that have them have less accidents etc.
kcrussell25:
Kerragy:
kcrussell25:
toby1234abc:
Kcrussell wrote its ok for relevant people to watch the footage in specific circumstances.
Sorry mate, that is a load of rubbish and your work mates swallowed that corporate garbage PC waffle .Sorry but I think you will find it is right. You will find it is easy for companies to put cameras in on the grounds of security and health and safety. You also have no realistic expectation of a right to privacy in public. It is a matter of if they want the arguement with the workforce. Unfortunately it is not “corporate garbage” these days. 20 or 30 years ago you trusted you employees as they wouldn’t help themselves or people wouldn’t sue if they tripped over their own foot. We are in a situation of our own making. Like the thread about weight limits on seats. If insurance companies start raising premiums for those who don’t have the cameras it may happen sooner rather than later. I saw the comment the comment from OLAV JAY (who I do feel talks a lot of sense) saying that his place said they would go for constructive dismissal if they were put in. On what grounds? It seems their boss wanted to keep their drivers so let it go and they have been ok. Also the tribunal costs even if employers win put them off going.
I am one of the relevant people. Working in retail the main reason we review it is for investigating theft. After that it is around accidents or complaints of bullying/harassment. There are other circumstances but they are more an as or when you make a decision if it is needed to be reviewed at the time. A key point is that we do have to be able to justify that decision. If I want to look I know I could be asked why I made that decision and if I do not have a valid reason I will be disciplined. People have been sacked in the past for this. I havn’t checked the cameras for weeks. The last occasion was when someone came to me with concerns that someone else was helping themselves. When we checked the cameras they were and have since been sacked.
There should be no reason not to record the driver for use in event of an accident or robbery. Maybe the biggest reason so many are against it is there is the A1 thread of guys using their phone and even driving round here where I live drivers on their phone is a common sight.
Surely if you are doing nothing wrong you should be greatful for the help to clear you in an accident? Or is it the many who openly admit to cutting corners are worried if it happens at the wrong time it will catch them out? I will admit there are things I do at work that would have me in the office if it was seen at the time. I speak to some of the older guys who deliver to us and they say thew job has changed now as they can’t take the mickey the way they used to because of trackers etc. Some would park up for 2 hours and say there were delayed to get overtime in for their holidays. They admit that can’t be done any more.
A final point that is likely to be of more interest to everyone is here is that there are no cameras in our canteen. I was told that this is because it is illegal to film people eating whilst they are on break. The understanding I have is that these cameras only work when the ignition is on? How this works when you are on break and want the ignition on for your windows or the radio could be an interesting point? I am working this weekend and will check the policy if I get a chance
With respect, that is the epitome of Corporate Garbage PC Waffle.
What other employee has a camera pointing specifically at them over the course of a fifteen hour shift? What are these cameras supposed to prove? Drivers get tired on the fifth Night Shift of the week? Big surprise, it isn’t the fault of the driver, it’s the result of being permitted, ergo expected, to work the hours we work. Let me tell you, if I ever have one fitted it will record plenty of yawning and rubbing of eyes towards the end of a days graft. Sorry about that, I’m human, I own up in advance to the fact that I get tired, pick my nose, drink a Diet Coke, listen to The Archers and sing along to a variety of music that I would really prefer to remain my secret, while driving. I have also on occasion clipped a kerb or roundabout and clattered the odd step on a blindside reverse.
So basically camera installers, up yours. There’s a bigger social benefit to paying me a wage to deliver stuff around the countryside whilst armpit ■■■■■■■ along with the Bay City Rollers than there is to paying Google & Mercedes bloody Benz to develop a truck that drives itself in order to enable DHL or XPO or whoever to increase the profit margin for their shareholders at our nations expense under the guise of “safety”.
If there is an argument to fit this crap in truck cabs, then there is an argument to fit it in Commercial Plane Cockpits, Train Cabs, Police Cars, Taxi Cabs. Excavator Cabs & Crane Cabs. In fact there are a lot of Industries where it could be argued there is a more pressing need for this tech than Road Haulage.
Either I am not making it clear or your not getting my point.
Why point a camera at someone sat at a desk. Whats the worst they can do? Spill a cup of coffee on their comeputer?
I don’t think they will be worried about a driver yawning on his 5th shift but they will be worried about him playing on his phone as he drives straight into the back of stationary traffic. If your job works to many/wrong hours have you looked for something else? If you are so tired that you feel unfit to drive you need to stop and take a break. If it is just the general yawning at the end of the day that won’t be an issue as everyone does that. I don’t know if there is a medical reason for the diet coke but as a night worker I find the full sugar version more helpful in providing a ‘lift’ compared to sugar free drinks.
I get your point about planes etc but specifically planes they have the voice and data recorders already. Also they have a second person in there looking at you and a strong culture of reporting problems or safety issues. Regards trains, taxies etc even planes how many people are killed in plane/train crashes etc due to driver or pilot error as apposed to technical problems? Planes especially it is very rare. Compare that to how many killed or how many bridges are hit by lorry drivers not paying attention?
Unfortunately driving has got to the standard where things like this are needed. That may not be due to you personally but it is the way the industry like so many others has gone. As has been commented else where is it worth saving a bit on wages if they will destroy the trucks worth a 100k? At the time employers thought yes. I wonder if they still do?
It seems to me it is you not getting the point…This is about psychological well being, you cannot put a price on that however much you try, we are not here for money, we are here for living and living got a whole lot more difficult in the last 20 years because of these devices and those that insist upon them, it is a truly sorry state of affairs and will not end well.
I think that maybe the state should fit them in your house my friend. After all if you’re doing nothing wrong you’ll have nothing to hide, surely?
Many people will have been told they have nothing to worry about over the centuries, from those led to the gulag or the gas chambers, for many it was the last thing they knew of, now we have people who think it quite normal to have their very own personal surveillance system watching them individually for every minute they work, and don’t seem in the least bothered at where this might lead.
What next i wonder, chip inserted in the brain of drone mere worker class (us) when born so every thought and movement can be recorded analysed databased…course they won’t fit a destruct module in it so when of no further use as a humanoid robot they can switch us off permanently will they? 
With all this Big Brother, five years from now, you will be forced to wear a hiviz while driving and keep it on while on a break inside the truckstop, hold on a minute, that already happens now .
Juddian:
Many people will have been told they have nothing to worry about over the centuries, from those led to the gulag or the gas chambers, for many it was the last thing they knew of, now we have people who think it quite normal to have their very own personal surveillance system watching them individually for every minute they work, and don’t seem in the least bothered at where this might lead.What next i wonder, chip inserted in the brain of drone mere worker class (us) when born so every thought and movement can be recorded analysed databased…course they won’t fit a destruct module in it so when of no further use as a humanoid robot they can switch us off permanently will they?
You talk in jest, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone decides we should have tracking chips in our heads 
OVLOV JAY:
Juddian:
Many people will have been told they have nothing to worry about over the centuries, from those led to the gulag or the gas chambers, for many it was the last thing they knew of, now we have people who think it quite normal to have their very own personal surveillance system watching them individually for every minute they work, and don’t seem in the least bothered at where this might lead.What next i wonder, chip inserted in the brain of drone mere worker class (us) when born so every thought and movement can be recorded analysed databased…course they won’t fit a destruct module in it so when of no further use as a humanoid robot they can switch us off permanently will they?
You talk in jest, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone decides we should have tracking chips in our heads
What a good idea, we shall put it in mans best friend (dog) first, make it compulsory…See how that goes and just how wonderful it is, then we can put a tracking chip in those with dementia /alzheimers …Then we can finally work it into the general populace, the benefits are so good, no more crime etc. 
It is coming.
OVLOV JAY:
Juddian:
Many people will have been told they have nothing to worry about over the centuries, from those led to the gulag or the gas chambers, for many it was the last thing they knew of, now we have people who think it quite normal to have their very own personal surveillance system watching them individually for every minute they work, and don’t seem in the least bothered at where this might lead.What next i wonder, chip inserted in the brain of drone mere worker class (us) when born so every thought and movement can be recorded analysed databased…course they won’t fit a destruct module in it so when of no further use as a humanoid robot they can switch us off permanently will they?
You talk in jest, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone decides we should have tracking chips in our heads
I was beaten to it. I am sure they are already working on it.
For what its worth I believe there is already a DNA database out there that they use in the big cases like a terrorist attack. Course because they “don’t” have it it can’t be used publicly but they can use it to track the person down and then build the case against them once they know who it is.
That is also partly my attitude because if the government wanted to screw you over and frame you for something they will!
the maoster:
I think that maybe the state should fit them in your house my friend. After all if you’re doing nothing wrong you’ll have nothing to hide, surely?
Slight difference between home and work. I assume most will have read 1984 with the tv watching the room etc. I am sure they will get there
[/quote]
It seems to me it is you not getting the point…This is about psychological well being, you cannot put a price on that however much you try, we are not here for money, we are here for living and living got a whole lot more difficult in the last 20 years because of these devices and those that insist upon them, it is a truly sorry state of affairs and will not end well.
[/quote]
Apologies if I havn’t then, please explain. I do not understand how being managed at work in the event of an accident affects your psychological well being. A cashier in a supermarket sits under a camera all shift for a lot less than a driver will earn.
You say your not there for the money but the lifestyle? Have I got that right? That sounds to me more like someone who like to “bend” rules to suit themselves. Did you go into this on the lifestyle of being unmanaged and miss it now it is changing? My post above said about drivers in the past for want of a better word taking the mickey and ended up pushing to far so employers got fed up and started pushing back.
For the record I go to work for the money. That money allows me to enjoy life outside of work. Its the way I have always viewed it.
Blue tac !!
I’m not doing anything wrong when I’m having a ■■■ but I wouldn’t want a camera in the toilet watching me crimp off a length.
I love the indignation of people (not on this site specifically) who throw their hands in the air and moan about being filmed, demand camaras be banned and site right to privacy yet most of these same people will happily point their smart phone at someone they dont know making a mistake and then post it online.
20 years in retail, on a truck drivers forum trying to give an opinion on something he knows sweet FA about in reality
This industry is full of ■■■■ heads like this wanting to come over for better then nmw and ee willing to under cut the uk drivers for crap conditions.
Industry summed up its on its absolute arse and just keeps getting worse!
OllieNotts:
20 years in retail, on a truck drivers forum trying to give an opinion on somethig he knows sweet FA about in reality
This industry is full of [zb] heads like this wanting to come over for better then nmw and ee willing to under cut the uk drivers for crap conditions.
Industry summed up its on its absolute arse and just keeps getting worse!
Thanks 
I admit I know nothing about reversing a truck so a thread about that to the guys who do. This is a discussion forum where I ended up when I first started researching driving and stuff like this I like to read to see what I am letting myself in for.
I am management so earn above nmw but talking to the drivers delivering to us they have been telling me for years to learn as some options for the future. They earn similar money to me but don’t have 30 people to worry about tripping them Up by doing something wrong or come in crying because their boyfriend has dumped them. Im to old for apprenticeship or something like that now.
I will talk and do listen as well so if someone has a better idea I am happy to listen and have even been known to change my mind after
The last thing they would see of me on a driver facing camera would be me packing my gear up and going else where.
Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
OllieNotts:
20 years in retail, on a truck drivers forum trying to give an opinion on something he knows sweet FA about in reality
This industry is full of [zb] heads like this wanting to come over for better then nmw and ee willing to under cut the uk drivers for crap conditions.
Industry summed up its on its absolute arse and just keeps getting worse!
+1 This^^^^^
And I also love these ‘‘Well if you are doing nothing wrong why are you bothered’’ type arsewipes. Also the ‘‘Well you get used to them and I never notice them’’ types.
You should not have even got to the stage where you get used to them , and instead of bending over with your kecks down do something about it to prevent it from the start, or at least show some kind of resistance.
We have the ones that are triggered off when braking hard, most moaned, most just accepted it, a few showed strong disapproval, but the majority of the ones with no balls set the result…they were put in, and about 3 of us have them covered in one way or another.
It has ■■■■ all to do with H&S, clearing the driver in an accident situation or any other positive spin these management dicks try to put forward to you so you will bend over
It is there as a modern style 1984 style man management technique, for them to encroach on your privacy and to catch you out in some way…end of.
robroy:
OllieNotts:
20 years in retail, on a truck drivers forum trying to give an opinion on something he knows sweet FA about in reality
This industry is full of [zb] heads like this wanting to come over for better then nmw and ee willing to under cut the uk drivers for crap conditions.
Industry summed up its on its absolute arse and just keeps getting worse!+1 This^^^^^
And I also love these ‘‘Well if you are doing nothing wrong why are you bothered’’ type arsewipes. Also the ‘‘Well you get used to them and I never notice them’’ types.
You should not have even got to the stage where you get used to themWe have the ones that are triggered off when braking hard, most moaned, most just accepted it, a few showed strong disapproval, but the majority of the ones with no balls set the result…they were put in, and about 3 of us have them covered in one way or another.
It has [zb] all to do with H&S, clearing the driver in an accident situation or any other positive spin these management dicks try to put forward to you so you will bend over
It is there as a modern style 1984 style man management technique, for them to encroach on your privacy and to catch you out in some way…end of.
If they’re triggered by harsh braking they will be triggered at least half a dozen times per day every day. My baby monitor that monitors speed also monitors harsh braking and even the TM admits that harsh braking is flagged up when no real harsh braking has occurred. Come to think of it I may even have cameras fitted without knowing it as the company sat nav (big change thing) has a camera fitted. I just thought it was to take pictures if you wanted to take them. I don’t use the bloody thing and leave it pointing towards the floor basically because it’s a crap sat nav compared to mine.
It’s this thing
bigchangeapps.com/products/ … -jobwatch/
Right at the bottom it talks about visibility of driver behaviour and speeding. I know it doesn’t work properly re speeding as its maps aren’t accurate to the roads. Reckon I’m going to unplug it.
Does anyone know if it does film you?