I’ve often thought that old time Labour wasn’t bad in principle. What if we still had nationalised railways (would tickets be a kings’ ransom?) If we had British Gas/Electricity boards would people be able to afford heating? Would lorry drivers be better off working for BRS rather than Stobarts (iffy example I know)? Would house prices be cheaper if we had UK Building Materials (and quarry planning permission easier to obtain)?
The only we wouldn’t want is British Leyland cars. 
Maybe I find it embarrassing because I have self respect, Carryfast. Sorry but if you can push a loaded trolley around Sainsburys then perhaps you could do some work albeit part time? I’ve met a guy on incapacity benefit and he spent his spare time volunteering on a steam railway, as the footplate crew. Sorry but if you can work the footplate you can work for a living.
And briefly to AIDS; With some exceptions, it’s a disease of tarts and junkies so why should non Brits be treated here?
in England I agree that AIDs is mainly found in those of poor morals etc, but I imagine the overseas victims are not that kind of person. Some will be the women raped by infected terrorists in Africa etc…or even their children.
del949:
And briefly to AIDS; With some exceptions, it’s a disease of tarts and junkies so why should non Brits be treated here?
in England I agree that AIDs is mainly found in those of poor morals etc, but I imagine the overseas victims are not that kind of person. Some will be the women raped by infected terrorists in Africa etc…or even their children.
The AID’s issue is just a red herring when the issue is all about health tourism that takes advantage of the NHS in general.As for Africa there is a point where we have to say we aren’t here to look after the rest of the world.While the only reason why this country isn’t in the same situation is because of its own efforts.
I think every benefit claimant should be treated equally. Every case is different and some people are unfairly receiving a benefit which they aren’t entitled to.
By the same token there are a lot of people being turned down for benefits which they should be getting. There are a lot old people who are entitled to claim for financial help,but are independently minded and don’t seek help.
People cannot be judged by race creed or colour. There are equality laws which state this, and I have a certificate to prove that I passed this training.
As for Africa and the other former Commonwealth Countries, a few generations ago, the rich from this country plundered those countries, and now its payback time.
Dave the Renegade:
I think every benefit claimant should be treated equally. Every case is different and some people are unfairly receiving a benefit which they aren’t entitled to.
By the same token there are a lot of people being turned down for benefits which they should be getting. There are a lot old people who are entitled to claim for financial help,but are independently minded and don’t seek help.People cannot be judged by race creed or colour. There are equality laws which state this, and I have a certificate to prove that I passed this training.
As for Africa and the other former Commonwealth Countries, a few generations ago, the rich from this country plundered those countries, and now its payback time.
First you’re saying that every claimant should be treated equally then you’re saying saying that some are more equal than others so no surprise in the Socialist mindset there.Which usually translates as claimants in the South East are considered as being ‘richer’ while those in the North and Wales and Scotland are considered as being more eligible.The same applied to the South East’s health care provision when we had hospitals falling apart with no heating let alone doctors while the Norf etc was getting loads of new expenditure under the Blair administration.
As for ‘plundering’ Africa more like brought them civilisation in which case Zimbabwe doesn’t seem to be doing as well for its inhabitants as it did when it was Rhodesia.
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
I think every benefit claimant should be treated equally. Every case is different and some people are unfairly receiving a benefit which they aren’t entitled to.
By the same token there are a lot of people being turned down for benefits which they should be getting. There are a lot old people who are entitled to claim for financial help,but are independently minded and don’t seek help.People cannot be judged by race creed or colour. There are equality laws which state this, and I have a certificate to prove that I passed this training.
As for Africa and the other former Commonwealth Countries, a few generations ago, the rich from this country plundered those countries, and now its payback time.
First you’re saying that every claimant should be treated equally then you’re saying saying that some are more equal than others so no surprise in the Socialist mindset there.Which usually translates as claimants in the South East are considered as being ‘richer’ while those in the North and Wales and Scotland are considered as being more eligible.The same applied to the South East’s health care provision when we had hospitals falling apart with no heating let alone doctors while the Norf etc was getting loads of new expenditure under the Blair administration.
As for ‘plundering’ Africa more like brought them civilisation in which case Zimbabwe doesn’t seem to be doing as well for its inhabitants as it did when it was Rhodesia so spare us the leftist bs.
Some of my family lived in the South East for many years. I am not a member of any political party and have served on the local Council with members of all parties, and we worked together to improve things.
I am referring to the British Commonwealth countries who were stripped of a lot of there mineral wealth by this and other countries.
So you can ■■■■ off with your leftist bs remark.
Dave the Renegade:
Some of my family lived in the South East for many years. I am not a member of any political party and have served on the local Council with members of all parties, and we worked together to improve things.
I am referring to the British Commonwealth countries who were stripped of a lot of there mineral wealth by this and other countries.So you can ■■■■ off with your leftist bs remark.
First you said everyone should be treated equally in terms of benefit eligibility then you said that some people are more equal than others in that regard. 
If you’re familiar with South East social security and health provision then you’d know that successive Labour governments have applied double standards on the basis of less spend and more cuts per head,in order to subsidise ‘other’ parts of the country considered as being ‘more deserving’.Which generally means those areas considered to be the best prospect of Labour votes.Which to the Cons credit is something that they’ve at least made an attempt to sort out by keeping more of the money earn’t here to pay for the needs of the population here.Rather than it being taken by the Labour cause to be spent in its preferred areas.One example of which was claimants in the South East being subjected to tougher claims screening conditions than those in parts of the North and Wales.None of which would apply in an environment of private provision regards income protection and health care cover.
As for ‘Commonwealth’ countries that example of the difference between Rhodesia compared to Zimbabwe being one.
del949:
uyoyo5
You make 3 claims there. That the banks didn’t cause the recession. Thats true but their actions vastly increased its effects and caused the need for the amount of austerity we have.
Secondly you claim that a majority like zero hours contracts. ALL the evidence shows that whilst a few do prefer them the majority don’t
Thirdly you claim that most food bank users are scroungers who don’t want to work. What does it take to get through to people like you that …
IF THERE ARE NO JOBS AVAILABLE YOU CAN’T WORK. While in some areas ther ARE jobs available in others there simply are none.
Many disabled have been declared “fit for work” and have had their benefits cut massively but because of their disability are not able to find any work, why would an empolyer use a disabled worker when he can get an able bodied worker for the same money… the result, another “workshy scrounger”
Some of these disabled have gone on to die of cancer within weeks of being told they were fit.
Stop listening to the Tory divide and rule rhetoric and use your own brain to see whats happening.More money is spent by the government propping up families on low wages with tax credits etc than all the unemployment benefits, is it really right for the government to use YOUR taxes to subsidise firm who don’t pay enough wages to workers.Because virtually all the zero hours workers will be in some way claiming benefits.
I AM a socialist. I believe that there are those who simply cannot look after themselves even though on the face of it they should be able to. There have always been those who cannot work, in other countries they beg or starve, there have always been scroungers, there have always been terminally sick people, I don’t want to be part of a country that says “Tough, I’m alright”.
And you have ask yourself who brought in tax credits and why did he do it? Gordon Brown brought them in and the one of the reasons was to help big business and other was to be able to say at each election that the Tories would take them away in effect bribing the electorate or put simply buying votes
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
Some of my family lived in the South East for many years. I am not a member of any political party and have served on the local Council with members of all parties, and we worked together to improve things.
I am referring to the British Commonwealth countries who were stripped of a lot of there mineral wealth by this and other countries.So you can ■■■■ off with your leftist bs remark.
First you said everyone should be treated equally in terms of benefit eligibility then you said that some people are more equal than others in that regard.
If you’re familiar with South East social security and health provision then you’d know that successive Labour governments have applied double standards on the basis of less spend and more cuts per head,in order to subsidise ‘other’ parts of the country considered as being ‘more deserving’.Which generally means those areas considered to be the best prospect of Labour votes.Which to the Cons credit is something that they’ve at least made an attempt to sort out by keeping more of the money earn’t here to pay for the needs of the population here.Rather than it being taken by the Labour cause to be spent in its preferred areas.One example of which was claimants in the South East being subjected to tougher claims screening conditions than those in parts of the North and Wales.None of which would apply in an environment of private provision regards income protection and health care cover.
As for ‘Commonwealth’ countries that example of the difference between Rhodesia compared to Zimbabwe being one.
Have a look at the infrastructure of Mid Wales Carryfast. No Tory or Labour MP’s or AM’s, its Lib/Dem country, that’s why we haven’t any general hospitals and most people living on the minimum wage. Have a trip this way Geoffrey and view the foodbanks. 
mazzer:
del949:
I AM a socialist. I believe that there are those who simply cannot look after themselves even though on the face of it they should be able to. There have always been those who cannot work, in other countries they beg or starve, there have always been scroungers, there have always been terminally sick people, I don’t want to be part of a country that says “Tough, I’m alright”.And you have ask yourself who brought in tax credits and why did he do it? Gordon Brown brought them in and the one of the reasons was to help big business and other was to be able to say at each election that the Tories would take them away in effect bribing the electorate or put simply buying votes
No surprise there in that the socialist cause has just as much of a stake in keeping the low wage economy going as the CBI.In this case to use the resulting ‘dependency culture’ to maintain the Labour vote.Which explains why so called ‘Labour’ leaders like Callaghan and Blair etc got away with imposing Thatcherite type incomes policies with the support of the TUC.
OK Bazza are YOUyourself prepared to tell these AIDS sufferers, no chance go home?
Well I’m not the health secretary, but at the end of the day we can’t afford to treat the worlds Ill. No British passport/no insurance = sorry we can’t help you.
Without knowing any of the circumstances?
Are YOU prepared to pay exztra taxes for increasing our defence budget?
No use the cash from a reduced aid budget. If there is no option then yes I would be prepared. Don’t forget ISIS are a boat trip away from Europe. Our police and forces have been decimated; these are the only true thing that keep us all safe.
I’ve claimed job seekers before and seen the doley layabouts smoking their weed outside the job centre before they go in in their chavtastic clothes, no intention of working
So, you too were a doley layabout/
You seem able to judge others without knowing the circumstances, so presumably we can make the same judgement about you?
Well I claimed JS for a month, mainly for my stamp, then got a job for which I’m still in. In the month out of work I volunteered at a charity and generally kept busy, no sitting on my arse.
My nan’s neighbour hasn’t worked in over FORTY years due to some made up back problem
and you know her back problems are made up…how?
Well it can’t be that bad, given I’ve seen him up a ladder cleaning his dad’s gutters out. It doesn’t stop him walking up the town for a pint or four either!
MY partner’s friends daughter - two kids by different dads by 18, council flat, won’t/can’t work. Claims all sorts.
Is child care available to allow her to work? if not what do you suggest she does with kids whilst she works?
Tough. If she couldn’t support herself she shouldn’t have had the kids. She’d said for years before this she wanted two kids by eighteen - so no accidents there. She knew she couldn’t support herself.
My other neighbour hasn’t worked in years, claims all sorts, even had enough to laminate floor the downstairs of his house last year
you don’t offer any evidence of a false claim. merely that he/she doesn’t work. For all we know they could be quadraplegic
She’s not a quadriplegic. She walks into the city in the week and feeds our dogs when were away. She’s nice enough, but turns up at interviews stinking (I’ve given her a lift a time or two, and is generally surly with people she doesn’t know. You can’t blame employers for not giving her a job…! My other neighbour, with the new floor, no reason he can’t work, he even helped a bloke lay his floor!
The government spent £222 bn on benefits last year!!! Enough is enough
.
This is the biggy!
A large percentage of that 222 billion was spent on paying
a)child benfit
b) tax credits to low paid workers
Notice, benefits payable to most families who don’t earn good wages, even though they are working! Do you get child benfit? does that make you a scounger
Farage can make ridiculous claims simply because he knows he will never be called to deliver.
[/quote]
No we don’t have any kids or claim anything either, but pay plenty of tax. We’ve got to get the £222bn figure down, how can we support the genuinely needy whilst simultaneously propping up the feckless?
bazza123:
OK Bazza are YOUyourself prepared to tell these AIDS sufferers, no chance go home?Well I’m not the health secretary, but at the end of the day we can’t afford to treat the worlds Ill. No British passport/no insurance = sorry we can’t help you.
Without knowing any of the circumstances?
Are YOU prepared to pay exztra taxes for increasing our defence budget?No use the cash from a reduced aid budget. If there is no option then yes I would be prepared. Don’t forget ISIS are a boat trip away from Europe. Our police and forces have been decimated; these are the only true thing that keep us all safe.
I’ve claimed job seekers before and seen the doley layabouts smoking their weed outside the job centre before they go in in their chavtastic clothes, no intention of working
So, you too were a doley layabout/
You seem able to judge others without knowing the circumstances, so presumably we can make the same judgement about you?Well I claimed JS for a month, mainly for my stamp, then got a job for which I’m still in. In the month out of work I volunteered at a charity and generally kept busy, no sitting on my arse.
My nan’s neighbour hasn’t worked in over FORTY years due to some made up back problem
and you know her back problems are made up…how?Well it can’t be that bad, given I’ve seen him up a ladder cleaning his dad’s gutters out. It doesn’t stop him walking up the town for a pint or four either!
MY partner’s friends daughter - two kids by different dads by 18, council flat, won’t/can’t work. Claims all sorts.
Is child care available to allow her to work? if not what do you suggest she does with kids whilst she works?
Tough. If she couldn’t support herself she shouldn’t have had the kids. She’d said for years before this she wanted two kids by eighteen - so no accidents there. She knew she couldn’t support herself.
My other neighbour hasn’t worked in years, claims all sorts, even had enough to laminate floor the downstairs of his house last year
you don’t offer any evidence of a false claim. merely that he/she doesn’t work. For all we know they could be quadraplegic
She’s not a quadriplegic. She walks into the city in the week and feeds our dogs when were away. She’s nice enough, but turns up at interviews stinking (I’ve given her a lift a time or two, and is generally surly with people she doesn’t know. You can’t blame employers for not giving her a job…!
The government spent £222 bn on benefits last year!!! Enough is enough
.
This is the biggy!
A large percentage of that 222 billion was spent on paying
a)child benfit
b) tax credits to low paid workers
Notice, benefits payable to most families who don’t earn good wages, even though they are working! Do you get child benfit? does that make you a scounger
Farage can make ridiculous claims simply because he knows he will never be called to deliver.
No we don’t have any kids or claim anything either, but pay plenty of tax. We’ve got to get the £222bn figure down, how can we support the genuinely needy whilst simultaneously propping up the feckless?
[/quote]
Something doesn’t sound right.Like Muckaway are you actually aware of the criterea and definitions for long term sick and/or unemployment benefits claims.Let alone the actual amounts.
Meanwhile fine you want to get the figure down in which case,as I’m saying,wind the whole system up then you won’t need to worry about it.Although some how I’m guessing that you also won’t want to repay everyone what they are owed in contributions,for what would then be a totally broken contract regarding the removal of all state provision regards income protection,education,health care and pensions.
While ironically I’d guess that the Cons would be the first to then want to back track in the knowledge that the socialist social security and NHS system is actually a net subsidy to employers assuming all that was replaced by decent private provision.Let alone all the low wage subsidies like income top ups,tax credits and social housing schemes.
Which equally ironically would actually benefit many potential claimants.Being that the definition in terms of claims for sickness for example are just being declared unfit to carry out the person’s own trade.Which in many cases certainly could create the situation of failing the LGV or train driver’s medical for example but still being fit enough to climb a ladder and/or do some jobs around the house.
I’m not saying scrap the whole system, just reform it. Where I live there are whole generations who haven’t worked. That isn’t right. These families are well known on the estate, filthy curtains in the windows, crap in the front garden, council house. Wander down to the corner shop to buy beer and ■■■■ etc. Greasy hair and unwashed bodies. Loads of kids in tow, a few asbos thrown in. My other half, who’s from the same estate calls them “The inbreds!”.
They represent an underclass found throughout Britain. No hopes, expect the state to back them. You see kids in buggies with cold tea in their bottles with dirty little clothes on. That’s ignorance.
My dog watching neighbour smells, her house smells of accumulated rubbish, she won’t let us in due to the mess. She doesn’t wash her clothes much yet admitted to my other half she has £11000 in the bank, so why can’t she afford soap etc?? She’s nice enough but has given up. She’ll likely never work again, she is 64 and lives alone.
Why can’t benefits be payed in vouchers so no cigs and alcohol can be bought with the money?
Listen I’m not lumping these people in with the genuinely disabled and those who care 24/7 for them for basically nothing. Those are the true heroes of the UK.
But we need to address the idea of benefits as a lifestyle choice.
That sounds to me like the predictable results of what happens in the case of the breakdown of a modern industrialised society that firstly created a state provision dependency culture in order to minimise wage rates when it had the work.Which just taxed the working class to subsidise low wage employment.Then finished the job by closing down even that industry in favour of imports thereby just leaving behind the dependency culture. 
However I’d suggest if you want a woman of 64 to be considered as being part of the workforce then first maybe you should pay her the compensation she’s owed for the breach of contract in her state pension entitlement.That contract saying that she ( should have been ) retired as of at least 4 years ago let alone be considered as part of the workforce past the age of 65.Having said that I’ve got some good old fashioned views of my 1926 general striker grandfather in that a woman’s place isn’t being the household’s breadwinner.While if she chooses to work that should be a bonus not a requirement.So yet again the Socialists and feminists gave the Tories a rod for the working class’s own backs.Just like the social ‘security’ system.