It's got to be stopped

Obviously an argument you know you cant win thecoder0

Before people start mouthing of about certian groups having rights to land and their own country etc… because they have a link to the land think of the following people

North American Indians
Aborigines
Maori
Tibetians
Fijians
Basque

And there are more, but I dont hear you arguing that people who live on their land should be expelled?

Also Im suprised that you bring this argument up as you say you hate racism, yet if I was to say I want all foreigners out of my country and a government of english people representing me, youd say that is racist, well you are arguing just that with the Palestinians.

The political debate can (and no doubt will) run on and on. In politics the goalposts move too often to be relied upon and the politicians will quite happily change their ‘agenda’ to suit the vote that will keep them in. No one political party is any better than another with regard to this.

What does matter (in the above posted situation) is that, irrespective of who is right or wrong, civillians/women/children were being killed by indiscriminate bombing!!! I don’t give a flying d[zb]uck what the reasons were/are - they are totally non-justfiable!!!

marcustandy:
What does matter (in the above posted situation) is that, irrespective of who is right or wrong, civillians/women/children were being killed by indiscriminate bombing!!! I don’t give a flying d[zb]uck what the reasons were/are - they are totally non-justfiable!!!

What by the IDF or Hizbollah?

ralliesport:
What by the IDF or Hizbollah?

Fair point. They’re both guilty.

I was actually refering to the disproportionate bombing of the Palestinians.

When I see the TV pictures of the kids being hurt/killed, I can’t think of the ‘who’s right or wrong’. What I do know though, is that the majority of pictures were of the Palestinian children.

No your saying the palestinians have a god given right to the land of palestine yes?

So the english have the same rights as the palestines to their land?

Not quite the same is it? If the English were expelled from England by an influx of a different religion, would you accept that?

tintobg:

No your saying the palestinians have a god given right to the land of palestine yes?

So the english have the same rights as the palestines to their land?

Not quite the same is it? If the English were expelled from England by an influx of a different religion, would you accept that?

Its happening now, slowly and surely!!! If i removed your blindfold in Bradford,Bedford,Luton,Leicester could you tell which one you where in?!! :slight_smile:

marcustandy:
The political debate can (and no doubt will) run on and on. In politics the goalposts move too often to be relied upon and the politicians will quite happily change their ‘agenda’ to suit the vote that will keep them in. No one political party is any better than another with regard to this.

What does matter (in the above posted situation) is that, irrespective of who is right or wrong, civillians/women/children were being killed by indiscriminate bombing!!! I don’t give a flying d[zb]uck what the reasons were/are - they are totally non-justfiable!!!

Ralliesport– What MARCUSTANDY says is right and that is where my priorities lie first that, is to stop killing women and children …and I don’t care if that is Jew or Arab I am a human being first.

The dispute over land wether that is THE balknans ,Middle East,etc will only ever be resolved through negotiation…History proves that remember the English Goverment refusing to talk to terrorists (IRA) but are now happy to sit round the negotiation table…funny old world eh)…one minute its not OK to talk to people who plant bombs in City centres, then it is OK.

Rally you know nothing about me my friend so until you do neither make the assumption that I am a racist/non racist /fascist or whatever through a few lines of text on the net.

I will however let you know I have been close enough to ethnic cleansing,religious hatred,biggatry etc to smell it, touch it and taste in the back of my mouth.

If I were to take an impression of a person from this medium then things like your signature worry me greatly.

[\What by the IDF or Hizbollah?
_________________
the new plan is to go out with a boom
to the station with a petrol can
5 pounds please I say to the man
all set up and ready to burn
the wheel on my lighter just wont turn/]

Peace be with You

thecoder0:
I will howver let you know I have been close enough to ethnic cleansing,religious hatred,biggatry etc to smell it, touch it and taste

.

Funny you should say that but not quite the ethnic ecleansing but ive been on the doorstep of the rest of it i grew up in Glasgow so i know what biggotry and relgious hatred can do.

I know enough to have grown up in the days of the Provos, the UDA and the IRA, I know enough to DESPISE terrorism which has no place in our modern world ONLY when people stop TERRORISM and its supporters then maybe JUST maybe we can look forward to the next step in the peace protest.

When the disgusting act on 9/11 took place, why were the Palestinians dancing and celebrating in the street?, is that acceptable in our society?.

Is it ok for me to celebrate when Osama is finally killed?.

When you have to be searched every day, every movement , every turn of a street, entering every train, every bus station, every shopping centre when these ■■■■■■■ idiots stop blowing themselves up ONLY then can the Middle East look towards a future.

When they stop using Schools to launch their mortars the Isrealis will stop bombing the schools, When they stop using Mosques to fire rpgs from then the Isrealis will stop bombing the mosques.When they come out from their hiding places and stand up and fight like men then the Isrealis will know who they are fighting against.

When they stop fanatically believing their religion is more important than life itself then maybe they can sit round the table and talk.

When the Palestinians accept the very existence of Israel and stops threatening them then maybe they can sit round the table.

Until then Israel has every right to defend itself by whatever means possible.

jammymutt:

thecoder0:
.

Funny you should say that but not quite the ethnic ecleansing but ive been on the doorstep of the rest of it i grew up in Glasgow so i know what biggotry and relgious hatred can do.

I know enough to have grown up in the days of the Provos, the UDA and the IRA, I know enough to DESPISE terrorism which has no place in our modern world ONLY when people stop TERRORISM and its supporters then maybe JUST maybe we can look forward to the next step in the peace protest.

When the disgusting act on 9/11 took place, why were the Palestinians dancing and celebrating in the street?, is that acceptable in our society?.

Is it ok for me to celebrate when Osama is finally killed?.

When you have to be searched every day, every movement , every turn of a street, entering every train, every bus station, every shopping centre when these [zb] idiots stop blowing themselves up ONLY then can the Middle East look towards a future.

When they stop using Schools to launch their mortars the Isrealis will stop bombing the schools, When they stop using Mosques to fire rpgs from then the Isrealis will stop bombing the mosques.When they come out from their hiding places and stand up and fight like men then the Isrealis will know who they are fighting against.

When they stop fanatically believing their religion is more important than life itself then maybe they can sit round the table and talk.

When the Palestinians accept the very existence of Israel and stops threatening them then maybe they can sit round the table.

Until then Israel has every right to defend itself by whatever means possible.

Jammy you make strong points that are made through tangible evidence…BUT it is the chicken and egg scenario and I too could give many…BUT THE REAL POINT OF THIS THREAD…is to make the point of the killing of innocent people has to stop…

Look what happened yesterday…Blair turns up in the Lebanon…Hamas and another faction are looking to set up a unity Goverment…and hey presto it seems like…the west will possibly be looking at lifting santions against Hamas…and might be open to negotiations…

IF THESE ARE GOD FEARING PEOPLE AND I MEAN BOTH SIDES…WHY COULD THEY NOT DO THAT BEFORE THEY KILLED hundreds of Women and children.

Look at the might of the Israeli army and the resource of HISBULAH,ETC and the israelis still did not achieve the military goal before BUSH made them stop the disproportionate bombing.

You probably won’t like my comments on here, but if it’s the Israelis killing the Palestinians or the other way round who gives a toss cos I don’t. Our problems are closer to home regarding the surge of immigrants into this country of ours. So instead of harking on about events in another country which doesn’t effect you directly, surely we should clean up our own place first before we start looking elsewhere and kick all these Poles/Latvians or whatever OUT!

Penfold if we dont fix the source of the problem, then we suffer the consquences of the illegal immigrants coming over here.

thecoder0:
Ralliesport– What MARCUSTANDY says is right and that is where my priorities lie first that, is to stop killing women and children …and I don’t care if that is Jew or Arab I am a human being first.

The dispute over land wether that is THE balknans ,Middle East,etc will only ever be resolved through negotiation…History proves that remember the English Goverment refusing to talk to terrorists (IRA) but are now happy to sit round the negotiation table…funny old world eh)…one minute its not OK to talk to people who plant bombs in City centres, then it is OK.

Rally you know nothing about me my friend so until you do neither make the assumption that I am a racist/non racist /fascist or whatever through a few lines of text on the net.

I will however let you know I have been close enough to ethnic cleansing,religious hatred,biggatry etc to smell it, touch it and taste in the back of my mouth.

If I were to take an impression of a person from this medium then things like your signature worry me greatly.

Peace be with You

Women and children? What about the men.

Yes I agree no one should loose their life for a belief, especially a religious belief. All conflict has its routs in religion, and especially the Muslim religion at this current where they have not learnt that it’s just a belief and not life and death.

No one has a right to land because of a religion, personally I would have preferred that the Jews didn’t have a state, it’s a great sadness for me that because of the way they have been treated that their only security is guaranteed by the state of Israel. I don’t condone what Israel has done over the years, but they have to guarantee there future. Muslim guerrilla armies do not fight on a battlefield, but the IDF do, I’m sure that Syria is looking at attacking Israel but they will realise army against army the IDF will be victorious against any other Middle Eastern army, especially as they are guaranteed by the US. This is a no win situation for the Arabs because no matter what they do Israel will continue with US backing and hopefully UK, beyond that no country can oppose this view.

This problem is going to continue, not because of the Palestinian situation but because the Arabs do not accept Israel, If Palestine was a self governing country it wouldn’t survive without Israel and the West.

As for racism, all I said was that you would accuse me of being a racist to say I want all foreigners out of my country, would you or would you not? Unlike a lot of people I dislike people being called racist, because all that does is give the person the excuse not to argue and win their point of view. I accept your point of view about the Palestinians and yes I believe they should have their own country, but do you believe that Israel has a right to exist without the threat of terrorism from its neighbours?

As for the IRA well we won, we have a peace process. There is no United Ireland and the will never be (give it 40 or so years and the EU imploding and Id expect the Irish to consider re joining the UK) There is no devolved Northern Ireland government and there are no senn fein Mps. Tell me what exactly have the IRA achieved?

Don’t worry about my signature it’s of a song I like which is rather ironic for this post.

One thing though, you really have to ask yourself; did we really win the Second World War? After all, nearly all conflicts seem to have routes from this war.

tintobg:

No your saying the palestinians have a god given right to the land of palestine yes?

So the english have the same rights as the palestines to their land?

Not quite the same is it? If the English were expelled from England by an influx of a different religion, would you accept that?

But who explled the palestinians?

marcustandy:

ralliesport:
What by the IDF or Hizbollah?

Fair point. They’re both guilty.

I was actually refering to the disproportionate bombing of the Palestinians.

When I see the TV pictures of the kids being hurt/killed, I can’t think of the ‘who’s right or wrong’. What I do know though, is that the majority of pictures were of the Palestinian children.

Don’t get me wrong, but there is no direct correlation between what you see and the actual suffering. For example if you watch the BBC you would think that all Muslims are misunderstood and only want to kill us because we don’t believe in Allah so its perfectly reasonable to kill Jews. Fox News heck kill the Muslims there not really people who cares if a few thousand die.

The same applies for everything you see and read, all media has a bias to get over a point of view.

If we were to take your ‘ive mostly seen Palestinian children dead’ then if we had a fair and unbiased media we would be less concerned with the Palestinians and very much more concerned with the genocide going on in Darfur now.

penfold:
You probably won’t like my comments on here, but if it’s the Israelis killing the Palestinians or the other way round who gives a toss cos I don’t. Our problems are closer to home regarding the surge of immigrants into this country of ours. So instead of harking on about events in another country which doesn’t effect you directly, surely we should clean up our own place first before we start looking elsewhere and kick all these Poles/Latvians or whatever OUT!

Penfold you have the right to your views and if you see imigration as top of your agenda then cool…

But …We are bank rolling the middle east along with the USA and others…there are Countless millions of dollars/Pounds sat in Bank accounts for the rebuilding of Lebanon,Iraq,Aghanistan that money or part of it comes from OUR pockets…yours and mine…That does effect ME and YOU directly.

…Now at the moment the NHS has been told to find 500 million pound from its budgets to fill the blackhole …that money will come from our people some of whom are waiting for life saving operations…And the story goes on…

Poles /Latvians/ etc maybe a problem but at least they are putting something back into the infrastructure of this Country…Dont read me wrong on this Imigration is a problem…and needs sorting sooner than later.

What benefits do we get from Invading ,destroying ,citys ,to then pay millions to rebuild them…

When Iran are eventually invaded or attacked and we are watching the carpet bombing on a 24 hour basis has we did Iraq…then keep this in your head…they types of missiles we firing 24-7 for weeks cost …somewhere in the region of three hundred thousand pounds for ONE :open_mouth: :open_mouth: …WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS FOR THOSE.

Just to re-cap …Mr Brown says we need to find 500 Million for the NHS but we can find money and any amount for misiles…Ask the lady whos husband died in Iraq …because there were not enogh Flak jackets to go round…or the guys who are having to use outdated fire power that was not designed for desert conditions…

But hey I guess it don’t effect you directly :unamused: :unamused:

ralliesport:

thecoder0:
Ralliesport– What MARCUSTANDY says is right and that is where my priorities lie first that, is to stop killing women and children …and I don’t care if that is Jew or Arab I am a human being first.

The dispute over land wether that is THE balknans ,Middle East,etc will only ever be resolved through negotiation…History proves that remember the English Goverment refusing to talk to terrorists (IRA) but are now happy to sit round the negotiation table…funny old world eh)…one minute its not OK to talk to people who plant bombs in City centres, then it is OK.

Rally you know nothing about me my friend so until you do neither make the assumption that I am a racist/non racist /fascist or whatever through a few lines of text on the net.

I will however let you know I have been close enough to ethnic cleansing,religious hatred,biggatry etc to smell it, touch it and taste in the back of my mouth.

If I were to take an impression of a person from this medium then things like your signature worry me greatly.

Peace be with You

Women and children? What about the men.

Yes I agree no one should loose their life for a belief, especially a religious belief. All conflict has its routs in religion, and especially the Muslim religion at this current where they have not learnt that it’s just a belief and not life and death.

No one has a right to land because of a religion, personally I would have preferred that the Jews didn’t have a state, it’s a great sadness for me that because of the way they have been treated that their only security is guaranteed by the state of Israel. I don’t condone what Israel has done over the years, but they have to guarantee there future. Muslim guerrilla armies do not fight on a battlefield, but the IDF do, I’m sure that Syria is looking at attacking Israel but they will realise army against army the IDF will be victorious against any other Middle Eastern army, especially as they are guaranteed by the US. This is a no win situation for the Arabs because no matter what they do Israel will continue with US backing and hopefully UK, beyond that no country can oppose this view.

This problem is going to continue, not because of the Palestinian situation but because the Arabs do not accept Israel, If Palestine was a self governing country it wouldn’t survive without Israel and the West.

As for racism, all I said was that you would accuse me of being a racist to say I want all foreigners out of my country, would you or would you not? Unlike a lot of people I dislike people being called racist, because all that does is give the person the excuse not to argue and win their point of view. I accept your point of view about the Palestinians and yes I believe they should have their own country, but do you believe that Israel has a right to exist without the threat of terrorism from its neighbours?
As for the IRA well we won, we have a peace process. There is no United Ireland and the will never be (give it 40 or so years and the EU imploding and Id expect the Irish to consider re joining the UK) There is no devolved Northern Ireland government and there are no senn fein Mps. Tell me what exactly have the IRA achieved?

Don’t worry about my signature it’s of a song I like which is rather ironic for this post.

One thing though, you really have to ask yourself; did we really win the Second World War? After all, nearly all conflicts seem to have routes from this war.

I Absolutely believe that all people have the right to live in Peace and Yes I believe that Israel should be recognised…and will one day be.

I have never said that I agree with all the political aims of either side…peace will only come through dialogue…and common sense.

jammymutt:

thecoder0:
I will howver let you know I have been close enough to ethnic cleansing,religious hatred,biggatry etc to smell it, touch it and taste

.

Funny you should say that but not quite the ethnic ecleansing but ive been on the doorstep of the rest of it i grew up in Glasgow so i know what biggotry and relgious hatred can do.
I know enough to have grown up in the days of the Provos, the UDA and the IRA, I know enough to DESPISE terrorism which has no place in our modern world ONLY when people stop TERRORISM and its supporters then maybe JUST maybe we can look forward to the next step in the peace protest.

When the disgusting act on 9/11 took place, why were the Palestinians dancing and celebrating in the street?, is that acceptable in our society?.

Is it ok for me to celebrate when Osama is finally killed?.

When you have to be searched every day, every movement , every turn of a street, entering every train, every bus station, every shopping centre when these [zb] idiots stop blowing themselves up ONLY then can the Middle East look towards a future.

When they stop using Schools to launch their mortars the Isrealis will stop bombing the schools, When they stop using Mosques to fire rpgs from then the Isrealis will stop bombing the mosques.When they come out from their hiding places and stand up and fight like men then the Isrealis will know who they are fighting against.

When they stop fanatically believing their religion is more important than life itself then maybe they can sit round the table and talk.

When the Palestinians accept the very existence of Israel and stops threatening them then maybe they can sit round the table.

Until then Israel has every right to defend itself by whatever means possible.

Jammy you will be glad to hear that racism is still alive and kicking in Glasgow…Was called an English c…t myself only two days ago :wink:

Thats not racism !!, we are the same race thats just a bit of frienldy neighbourhood banter a Scottish guy working in England who was called Jock ■■■■■■■ and othe rprofanities had his case thrown out of jail as the judge said it could not be racism between the same nation.

jammymutt:
Thats not racism !!, we are the same race thats just a bit of frienldy neighbourhood banter a Scottish guy working in England who was called Jock [zb] and othe rprofanities had his case thrown out of jail as the judge said it could not be racism between the same nation.

Well thats OK then …I feel a lot better knowing that the wig said that :unamused:

Depends who you speak to on the same race thing…

■■■■. c…t

English c…t

same thing in my book but I am big enogh and uglier enough to deal with it on a personal level :sunglasses:

thecoder0:
[

I Absolutely believe that all people have the right to live in Peace and Yes I believe that Israel should be recognised…and will one day be.

I have never said that I agree with all the political aims of either side…peace will only come through dialogue…and common sense.

unfortunately common sense seems to be in short supply out there at the moment :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

It would be nice if they could sort it out by talking, surely there’s enough space on the planet for everyone to live without killing innocent civillians on each side, on the other hand this could just me being hopeful, and a wooly minded liberal :wink: