profits go up because the amount of companies who a reluctant to take a full time member of staff on have gone down they use agencies so they have flexibility! why anyone would pass this information on to a random forum person is beyond me? wgaes have gone down everywhere not just haulage! if your wanting to go self employed thats great but its only you say a company wants you next week and your booked up who they going to call?
i think your wasting your time!
also seems strange you have asked a very similar question in the owner driver part too 
selby newcomer:
has anybody ever heard of a company called dupole or depole??(unsure of spelling) they are supposedly a company inbetween the agency and the client, apparently they set the rates the agency charge. I’ve been asking for a rate rise at the agency I’m working for and they say they don’t set the rates, so can’t raise the pay rate. I’ve also checked this with the client and it’s a contract TDG/ND are tied into, nobody knows when it expires, wether its all true or not, who knows
This interests me a great deal, if this was fact, and De pole are setting the rates, then not only are they taking a slice of the pie, then so are the agencies…
This is why I want to know, and if De pole are setting the rates for the majority of blue chip companies it could answer the question that I have asked quite a few agencies that I have subbed for, when I ask them about the rates the answer in most cases is " We don’t set them, head office do"
Now that could have two meanings, first one could be agencies mainly employ monkeys to hire the staff and keep them in the dark with a few banana’s as far as fee’s are concerned or the second reason could be that a company just like De Pole are actually running the show, keeping the rates down and reaping just as much reward if not more than agencies…?
war1974:
profits go up because the amount of companies who a reluctant to take a full time member of staff on have gone down they use agencies so they have flexibility! why anyone would pass this information on to a random forum person is beyond me? wgaes have gone down everywhere not just haulage! if your wanting to go self employed thats great but its only you say a company wants you next week and your booked up who they going to call?i think your wasting your time!
So it’s impossible that major blue chip companies are making more money now in a recession that they ever did in boom time, out of fear, exploitation and greed.
And I must be off my trolley thinking agencies are making a fortune off professional drivers back and not relaying the cost or rewards onto drivers.
Can ask you a question driver to driver, not sure if you work for your self or if you do your own thing, but let’s just say me and you both go out tomorrow and take a job working for one of the mentioned companies?
We both draw our first weeks wage packet, and scratch our heads because just like magic I seem to be earning the same money that week as I did in 1999.
Yet since 1999 certain agency owners have bought horse padocks, racing cars, cheap tarts and live on an Island somewhere feeling really sorry for hard working lads like us.
I work for my self and I don’t really want a middle man, I earn a living like everyone does but to think there is someone out there taking his cut, then someone behind him taking his is not good business, which is why I want to know what they are taking and who is taking it.
How do people get palmed off with jobs that get given last minute, have crap rates, and yet there always seems to be someone mug enough to pick it up despite the lousy conditions?
I’m talking Self-Employed £6.50ph stuff with half hour’s notice 20+ miles away…
In a nil-sum game, those losing money hand-over-fist go broke first, and having been removed from the arena, are not present to be the mugs in the next round…
An endless supply of “new mugs” is require for such an agency to stay in business is it not?
I wonder sometimes if the lousy agencies use the sour repuation as a smoke-screen to hide behind, because the world expects no better of them…
Might I suggest that the driver-specialist firms that are happy to do PAYE (as opposed to Umbrella or Pseudo-PAYE) should be the first rather than the last port of call when deciding which agencies to sign up with.
ADL and Blue Arrow are NOT top of that list, pressing for Self-Employed/Salary Sacrifice/Umbrella the way they do. 
Looking more into this De Pole companie, is this how ADR network have managed to do so well in a short space of time by cutting them out?
When I click on there client page are they not setting the rate for other agencies hiring drivers and making them go threw them, just like De Pole.?
It’s just a guess?
This would then make blue chip companies look like they are being competitive by hiring several agencies when in fact it’s just one running the whole show because they set the rate?
Then in time you drive down the wages, become more reliant on agency staff, then lay off your own forcing them to work for the same wages.?
Hang on a minuet …that’s happening isn’t it?
tachograph:
selby newcomer:
has anybody ever heard of a company called dupole or depole??(unsure of spelling) they are supposedly a company inbetween the agency and the client, apparently they set the rates the agency charge. I’ve been asking for a rate rise at the agency I’m working for and they say they don’t set the rates, so can’t raise the pay rate. I’ve also checked this with the client and it’s a contract TDG/ND are tied into, nobody knows when it expires, wether its all true or not, who knowsI think you mean De Poel Ltd.
Thanks tachograph, that’s looks a very informative read. Only read the 1st couple of pages so far, spoke to the TM about De Poel when I got back to the yard, he insists they are only used for payment to the agency 
I’ve been on the same placement since January 2011, I started with blue arrow but they have now been moved out and milestone have now got sole supply to the site, they do PAYE and self employed, but there is also another option, it’s via a company called Kingston, basically it seems like self employed but it technically isn’t. Can claim all expenses, travel & food etc etc, they charge £22 a week, I’m unsure about them so have stayed PAYE.
Anybody got any experience of Kingston??
No, this is what I refer to as “Pseudo PAYE”.
They deduct tax (instead of paying you gross) you get to claim expenses (but HMRC will look at you very closely!) and of course you pay the comission, effectively a charge for supplying you with a pay slip and/or an individual shift.
You have all the disadvantages of both PAYE and Self-Employed with the extra of having to pay for it as well.
I was faced with this bum deal when I turned up at Milestone (dartford), and decided to walk away and join a firm that did more than they do for no fees at all - because it is PROPER PAYE rather than the Pseudo kind. 
Milestone seem to be the biggest supplier of drivers to Sainsbury, whereas Mainstream are the same for Tesco.
Pound for pound, you’re better off NOT going down the Self-Employed route unless your Ltd company is able to invoice £15ph plus, ideally £18ph. Since milestone is going through both an agency AND an accountant firm, you’ll be lucky to get half that AND have all those commissions deducted on top. A fast track to impoverishment to be sure, unless you want to commit to working 40+ hour weeks with no holidays, perks, or even a say over what shifts you get. Some people will sell their souls for 40+ hours a week, even on minimum wages, but I’d rather work fewer hours for more net pay instead, being able to count. 
This is why I’m not working at Sainsburys, but seem to pick up a lot of shifts at Tesco. - It’s a basic square deal, and that’s all there is to it. I pick the shifts I want, get paid more on PAYE than Milestone agencies pay for Sainsburys Self-Employed, and still get expenses applied to my pay, despite paying no “salary sacrifice” or “umbrella fees” to do it. 
selby newcomer:
I’ve been on the same placement since January 2011, I started with blue arrow but they have now been moved out and milestone have now got sole supply to the site, they do PAYE and self employed, but there is also another option, it’s via a company called Kingston, basically it seems like self employed but it technically isn’t. Can claim all expenses, travel & food etc etc, they charge £22 a week, I’m unsure about them so have stayed PAYE.Anybody got any experience of Kingston??
I know DHL well, and the guys running milestone, and the rip of schemes, PM me if you like but don’t be fooled by Kingston, quite a lot of there lads use think accoutant too, Jesus Christ I think the true cost of that service is about £6000 per year, but it’s only costing them £15 a week until the drivers work out they are keeping all there Flat rate VAT plus the weekly fee and then the final sting in the tail is the money that you pay these robbing shylocks weekly has nothing to do with there fee’s for doing your returns which are due about 18 months down the line, this cost is £800 plus vat on top of the above, so be very careful
Hope this helps you out.
i am a driver but work for an agency an agency that doesnt use self employed at all i wouldnt advise any driver to go that route ever for £1 per hour more all your doing is waiving your right to the awr saving the agency money for holiday pay ni etc.
like i say at present yes rates have gone down in 2006 i got more per hour time and a half etc but thats life in a recession wages are the 1st things to get cut and with regards to haulage or logistics compare 2006 or 1999 fuel prices vs todays and you will see exactly why rates have dropped
war1974:
i am a driver but work for an agency an agency that doesnt use self employed at all i wouldnt advise any driver to go that route ever for £1 per hour more all your doing is waiving your right to the awr saving the agency money for holiday pay ni etc.
like i say at present yes rates have gone down in 2006 i got more per hour time and a half etc but thats life in a recession wages are the 1st things to get cut and with regards to haulage or logistics compare 2006 or 1999 fuel prices vs todays and you will see exactly why rates have dropped
Hmm. I wonder if all the agencies are earning the same sort of percentages less than in 2006, as drivers are? Or if the profits at all the major supermarkets and the bigger haulage companies are as significantly reduced as drivers’ wages are?
No, thought not…
if you have two bods, one prepared to sign the swedishh derogation thing, and the other not, then with both drivers being touted the same pay to start, who do you think they employer is gonna call?
(Not ‘Ghostbusters!’)
There are very few actual employers who’ll want to take on agency staff who get the rights to full pay after 13 weeks. Drivers with such rights representing such a liability to a giant user of drivers like a supermarket just are not going to go down that road!
Best not chase it then IMO, because it’s a hiding to nothing.
The AWR isn’t fit for purpose anyway, as it’s too easy to lay someone off for a week at week 12, then take them back on again week 14 and entirely get around it! 
If the deal on the table isn’t the one you want to be going on with, then reject it, and walk away. It ISN’T going to get better later down the line, just because some smooth talking rep comes up with some “Jam Tomorrow” bullcrap about fancy rates for working over 8 hours, weekends, & bank holidays - since firms offering that in my experience don’t actually have any of that kind of “premium work”!
It’ll be monday-friday flat rate £8ph 99.999% of the time, with the carrot of “maybe” getting into a “chance” of a “ballot” for a “single BH shift” at plummy rates.
Rob
interesting stuff
When I started doing agency work many years ago I rang round agencies pretending to be an emplyoyer who was going to need drivers on a weekly basis and for single days. I was shocked at how high their quotes were but I think now that it is more competetive and they negotiate individual jobs. I work for 2 agencies in order to allay the taxmans suspicions that i am not really self employed. I sometimes refuse a job saying the rate is too low. The agency clerk then says he’s sorry but he’s only getting a low rate from the client and offers to pay me a little bit more. Are you an economist? How will you be presenting your data to us?
In the north west/Wales agency drivers get paid
8.50 -9.00 for first 8 then time and a half. Sat and sun time and a half
Some contracts 9.00-10.00 ph flat rate
Some jobs £90.00 per 10 hour shift
Night rates add 1.00 ph
Skills (hiab) add £1.00ph
Statuutory breaks (45m) always deducted
Protective clothing for chill work not pprovided
R
Good friend of mine, ex squaddy took a job up at one of Chicken places at Foxhills, he wishes he would have stayed in the Army now but to be honest at almost 50 years old 22 years is enough for anyone.
The employer in question Pays a staggering £19 per hour for agency drivers when his drivers leave.
Jobs not that bad, it’s just live haul, but when drivers leave he has to resort to agencies to get those wagons rolling, and the drivers are paid £8.90 per hour.
He couldn’t tell me what the weekend rate was, nor the Sunday rate, but at £19 surely agencies don’t have to be that greedy in times of recession…
This is one true example of how agencies are making a fortune, but it says nothing really for what agencies are charging blue chip companies for arguments sake 50- 100 drivers a day.
I am yet to be given true facts of how this works and what is really paid out but I must admit it would ruffle a few feathers as far as profession drivers are concerned because I believe that the wage set by agencies is a rough guide line for all hgv employees to go buy.?
LCDRIVER:
If i ran an agency i would want a contract with that company to supply a minimum amount of drivers per week to succeed other wise i don’t think i would last long in such a competitive market-
You don’t understand what agencies are for…
Euro:
RobIn the north west/Wales agency drivers get paid
8.50 -9.00 for first 8 then time and a half. Sat and sun time and a half
Some contracts 9.00-10.00 ph flat rate
Some jobs £90.00 per 10 hour shift
Night rates add 1.00 ph
Skills (hiab) add £1.00ph
Statuutory breaks (45m) always deducted
Protective clothing for chill work not pprovided
R
Give or take 50 pence to a quid it’s same all over the country which makes me suspect agency’s are controlling the wages and have been for some time.
So I suppose as an employers point of view all you would need to do is pay a little extra and you would look like robin hood.
If you don’t like it there is always agency work, and mean while both employer and agency know the true cost of what a driver is really worth but never let on…
The “time and a half” thing sounds great until you find you can never get any when you want it… 
Flat rate all the way through means the employer is offering shifts to suit, rather than trying to clip you off at their base minimum, and get you to book off in “happy hour” to enforce it.
(Happy Hour is the period just beyond the minimum paid shift, where you are effectively working for nothing for the period of whatever break is deducted)
Eg. If you are guaranteed 5 hours for turning up, and the firm deducts 1hr for meal relief, then “Happy Hour” is hours 5-6 of that shift, since you get paid the same weather you book off at the 5 hour or the 6 hour mark.
I don’t know of any firms that are paying for meal reliefs, POA, AND paying by the hour to boot… Royal Mail used to pay for meal reliefs, but that stopped even before they went onto monthly pay.
POA if not paid, leaves any and every driver exposed to mickey mouse hours - make no mistake! If you’re paid POA, then you’ll never work beyond a 60 hour week. If you DON’T get paid POA, then don’t be surprised if your very first full week at a particular firm is in the 75-84 hours area…
dinosteveus1:
Why would anyone trust you with this info?
I smell a rat, soz but…BTW, drivers wages have changed, they’ve gone down mainly due IMHO to the influx of immigrant job thieves and Agency wage thieves.
Doesn’t that make you something of a hypocrite??
Wasn’t it you that went to another country for work? That you ‘crashed & burned big-style’ doesn’t detract from the fact that you would have taken that job, if they’d have had you!
akaday:
marcustandy:
dinosteveus1:
Why would anyone trust you with this info?
I smell a rat, soz but…BTW, drivers wages have changed, they’ve gone down mainly due IMHO to the influx of immigrant job thieves and Agency wage thieves.
Doesn’t that make you something of a hypocrite??
Wasn’t it you that went to another country for work? That you ‘crashed & burned big-style’ doesn’t detract from the fact that you would have taken that job, if they’d have had you!
akaday:
Doh, tool. That Company ONLY employed ‘Foreign’ (immigrant) Drivers. You’d know this if you bothered to look.
BTW, as a Class 1 noobie in this climate, would you have traveled a few hundred miles to a different Country for a job tryout? Well I did, so up yours.