tachograph:
You claim that the agencies are “generating huge profits year after year” and “year after year these profits are getting higher and higher” but do you have any factual information to back up those claims?
What I see is more and more agencies popping up all over the place which would suggest to me that the competition for the work is probably greater than ever.
My belief is that one of the reasons agencies are now forcing people to go self employed is because it gives them more scope to undercut other agencies, however as most of the agencies are now playing the same game they are once more on a level playing field with the workers as the biggest loser.
I have to say that for someone who’s having to come on an Internet forum and ask about agency rates you seem to have an uncanny and so far unexplained knowledge of the agencies rising profits
To be honest as much as I dislike and despise agencies I’m finding it hard to take you seriously, you claim that you have no interest in starting an agency but also say that you’re putting together a business plan, you claim that the agencies are making bigger than ever profits and yet appear to have no idea how much they charge their clients and have even had to ask for clarification on what expenses agencies have 
Yes i do, i have downloaded there company house files for last year and the year before…
The amount of money going threw some of these companies is astounding when you see how badly drivers are being treated.
It’s impossible to work out the hourly rate charged to clients on the profits alone.
Trust me i am serious, i came to a drivers forum to ask, if i wasn’t serious i wouldn’t be here.
LCDRIVER:
MeatintheSeat:
LCDRIVER:
I am collecting this information as a business plan and before anyone jumps down my neck it has nothing to do with starting up another employment agency.
The information provided to me is 100% confidential, and i do not intend to use it for anything other than my own business plan.
What is your business plan for then if it isn’t to start an employment agency 
If it isn’t to start an employment agency then why would you need this information (which incidentally would be viewed as commercially sensitive)
It’s just for an idea i have and no it has nothing to do with setting up an agency at all, i just want to know how much they are making on drivers or how much they are charging the Big Fish-what there terms and conditions are, stuff like that.
Because lets face it they have been around for a long time, and year after year these profits are getting higher and higher, yet more and more drivers seem to be suffering wage cuts or redundancy.
I understand the topics commercial sensitivity which is why i would rather be emailed or have a chat on the phone about exact figures and numbers as long as the figures are accurate and not a case of “My mate down the pub says there on a grand a day!” 
how high are their profits and how much higher year on year are the getting?
but just because their profits increase doesn’t mean they should pay the drivers more.
point of business is to generate profit, to do this charge as much as you can get away with for your product - the driver, whilst paying out as little as you can get away with - the driver
LCDRIVER:
The amount of money going threw some of these companies is astounding when you see how badly drivers are being treated.
money going through a company sounds like turnover to me. turnover is not profit or any indication of profit.
what is the bad treatment you speak of?
It’s so sensitive that i’ll tell you what it was within the last 15months in the north west.
C+E Min charge 8hrs @ £12-15ph pay between £8-9ph
C Min charge 8hrs @ £9-12ph pay between £7-8ph
C1 Same as C or very little lower.
About two years ago for example Manpower had on costs at £1.87ph. They paid £8ph for C+E so min charge was £9.87 before they started to break even, consultants there had to get permission from area management if they dropped below 16% margin.
Then there are/where depoel registered agencies whom where making about £1/2ph on charge rates. Depole would tell them what they paid the agency and the agency decided what to pay the driver. Hence why they wanted drivers off PAYE as it costs them less.
Spacemonkeypg:
It’s so sensitive that i’ll tell you what it was within the last 15months in the north west.
C+E Min charge 8hrs @ £12-15ph pay between £8-9ph
C Min charge 8hrs @ £9-12ph pay between £7-8ph
C1 Same as C or very little lower.
About two years ago for example Manpower had on costs at £1.87ph. They paid £8ph for C+E so min charge was £9.87 before they started to break even, consultants there had to get permission from area management if they dropped below 16% margin.
Then there are/where depoel registered agencies whom where making about £1/2ph on charge rates. Depole would tell them what they paid the agency and the agency decided what to pay the driver. Hence why they wanted drivers off PAYE as it costs them less.
OK mate this is great, thanks, what are Depoel registered agencies, never heard of this before?
Id really like to know what they are charging in the Triangle, (Wakefield, Doncaster, Normanton)
Big Fish are ADR, Taskmaster, Blue Arrow and this new one called Milestone but i think i will have to dig a bit deeper than a forum to find this out, strange nobody want to chat about this, unless of course i have joined a forum run by agencies, now that would be ironic.
Cheers anyway.
Commissions vary and depend on a lot of factors but a few years ago you would see 25% commission for small clients down to 9% for big users also the bigger the agency the less comm they have to charge to cover their overheads, in the late 90s I had a Uk office and with 3 staff it cost over 50k a year, dread to think what it costs today.
The cake just isn’t big enough is it?
Its the same problem with Umbrella schemes. If you are Fiona Bruce, then paying £27 to have a shift processed makes a lot of sense, with the tax being brought down from 50% to 20%.
If you merely earn “mortal money” (because it dies pretty soon after payday right?) then paying £27 fee for a shift is a complete joke. The reason one gets told that the £27 isn’t flexible is that it is the “fixed and standard administrative overhead” which is like saying “Workers can take paycuts, but penpushers cannot”. Last time I looked, the price of office stationary was falling, and has been doing so for some time. 
With that in mind, why do so many agencies have the bad reputation of going ■■■■-up overnight leaving loads of unpaid wages?
Is it those trying to get by on ultra-thin margins like £10ph charge to pay the driver £8ph? Or is it just too much spent in corporate hospitality, backdoor bribes, fancy company cars, and providing work to liability drivers because they’re all you can get for near minimum wages…?
If you run an office-based business on thin margins, then the coffee machine falling over threatens to bring down the whole business! 
A good agency is one that provides a steady source of work to the steady drivers that in turn provide them with a reliable & regular revenue.
“Steady” doesn’t mean “picks up every shift offered” - it means getting the job done well at minimum liability to everyone concerned on a regular, professional basis.
There’s no point starting out picking up every crap shift from Monday, only to drop a trailer on it’s nose on Saturday night, because you’ve overdone it! 
Equitran:
Commissions vary and depend on a lot of factors but a few years ago you would see 25% commission for small clients down to 9% for big users also the bigger the agency the less comm they have to charge to cover their overheads, in the late 90s I had a Uk office and with 3 staff it cost over 50k a year, dread to think what it costs today.
That’s kind of what i mean by the previous comment on ringing the agency my self to book a driver.
If my company was to ring for one or two drivers the price would be much higher than the likes of Tesco’s wanting 100 drivers a day.
But that said, i have been called out to Tesco’s last minuet dot com and been given three time what i could earn in a day just to get there, plus my fee.
NFT and DHL pay threw the nose like this too when they are desperate enough which makes me wonder who is actually paying?
LCDRIVER:
Equitran:
Commissions vary and depend on a lot of factors but a few years ago you would see 25% commission for small clients down to 9% for big users also the bigger the agency the less comm they have to charge to cover their overheads, in the late 90s I had a Uk office and with 3 staff it cost over 50k a year, dread to think what it costs today.
That’s kind of what i mean by the previous comment on ringing the agency my self to book a driver.
If my company was to ring for one or two drivers the price would be much higher than the likes of Tesco’s wanting 100 drivers a day.
But that said, i have been called out to Tesco’s last minuet dot com and been given three time what i could earn in a day just to get there, plus my fee.
NFT and DHL pay threw the nose like this too when they are desperate enough which makes me wonder who is actually paying?
In cases where companies book at the last minute for urgent loads the agency will negotiate a special one off rate for the job, this is common place when a driver has to drop a shift at the last minute and non delivery would cost thousands.
Equitran:
LCDRIVER:
Equitran:
Commissions vary and depend on a lot of factors but a few years ago you would see 25% commission for small clients down to 9% for big users also the bigger the agency the less comm they have to charge to cover their overheads, in the late 90s I had a Uk office and with 3 staff it cost over 50k a year, dread to think what it costs today.
That’s kind of what i mean by the previous comment on ringing the agency my self to book a driver.
If my company was to ring for one or two drivers the price would be much higher than the likes of Tesco’s wanting 100 drivers a day.
But that said, i have been called out to Tesco’s last minuet dot com and been given three time what i could earn in a day just to get there, plus my fee.
NFT and DHL pay threw the nose like this too when they are desperate enough which makes me wonder who is actually paying?
In cases where companies book at the last minute for urgent loads the agency will negotiate a special one off rate for the job, this is common place when a driver has to drop a shift at the last minute and non delivery would cost thousands.
Who would the agencies negotiate fee’s like this with, just out of interest when it comes to blues chip companies like NFT or DHL
With smaller companies they would have to talk to the boss, but with Blue Chip companies there is always somebody higher who has to say it’s ok or you don’t get paid.
This is a grey area for me and i have worked for them for years, the bigger the companies are the less you get to know who is in charge, but if i was to bill one directly or if they wanted to use me directly, who would i arrange a meeting with to talk about my fee’s, terms, and conditions.
At the same time i wouldn’t want to undercut my self, if an agency are charging that company £18 an hour for my services, paying me £11 and i ask for just £12 thinking the agency are making just £2 off my back, i could have been a few quid better off if i new what they were charging in the first place.
All big companies will have someone in charge of purchasing at a regional office and this person usually tells the local managers which are their preferred agency supplier, and in emergencies the local manager will have the power to ok an unusual rate.
These purchasing managers are usually connected or work closely with the personnel dept.
LCDRIVER:
Equitran:
LCDRIVER:
Equitran:
Commissions vary and depend on a lot of factors but a few years ago you would see 25% commission for small clients down to 9% for big users also the bigger the agency the less comm they have to charge to cover their overheads, in the late 90s I had a Uk office and with 3 staff it cost over 50k a year, dread to think what it costs today.
That’s kind of what i mean by the previous comment on ringing the agency my self to book a driver.
If my company was to ring for one or two drivers the price would be much higher than the likes of Tesco’s wanting 100 drivers a day.
But that said, i have been called out to Tesco’s last minuet dot com and been given three time what i could earn in a day just to get there, plus my fee.
NFT and DHL pay threw the nose like this too when they are desperate enough which makes me wonder who is actually paying?
In cases where companies book at the last minute for urgent loads the agency will negotiate a special one off rate for the job, this is common place when a driver has to drop a shift at the last minute and non delivery would cost thousands.
Who would the agencies negotiate fee’s like this with, just out of interest when it comes to blues chip companies like NFT or DHL
With smaller companies they would have to talk to the boss, but with Blue Chip companies there is always somebody higher who has to say it’s ok or you don’t get paid.
This is a grey area for me and i have worked for them for years, the bigger the companies are the less you get to know who is in charge, but if i was to bill one directly or if they wanted to use me directly, who would i arrange a meeting with to talk about my fee’s, terms, and conditions.
At the same time i wouldn’t want to undercut my self, if an agency are charging that company £18 an hour for my services, paying me £11 and i ask for just £12 thinking the agency are making just £2 off my back, i could have been a few quid better off if i new what they were charging in the first place.
This might give you an insight into how to attract the attention of decision makers in large corporations:
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … ribes.html
has anybody ever heard of a company called dupole or depole??(unsure of spelling) they are supposedly a company inbetween the agency and the client, apparently they set the rates the agency charge. I’ve been asking for a rate rise at the agency I’m working for and they say they don’t set the rates, so can’t raise the pay rate. I’ve also checked this with the client and it’s a contract TDG/ND are tied into, nobody knows when it expires, wether its all true or not, who knows
Spacemonkeypg:
It’s so sensitive that i’ll tell you what it was within the last 15months in the north west.
C+E Min charge 8hrs @ £12-15ph pay between £8-9ph
C Min charge 8hrs @ £9-12ph pay between £7-8ph
C1 Same as C or very little lower.
Thanks for that Spacemonkey, very useful.
What would overtime and Sat/Sun rates be?
Would some agencies tell drivers there is no O/T rate and its a flat rate (as they indeed do) but be charging the client O/T rates?
selby newcomer:
has anybody ever heard of a company called dupole or depole??(unsure of spelling) they are supposedly a company inbetween the agency and the client, apparently they set the rates the agency charge. I’ve been asking for a rate rise at the agency I’m working for and they say they don’t set the rates, so can’t raise the pay rate. I’ve also checked this with the client and it’s a contract TDG/ND are tied into, nobody knows when it expires, wether its all true or not, who knows
I can smell the BS from here on this one ^^^^
they have been explained in this thread and others before
selby newcomer:
has anybody ever heard of a company called dupole or depole??(unsure of spelling) they are supposedly a company inbetween the agency and the client, apparently they set the rates the agency charge. I’ve been asking for a rate rise at the agency I’m working for and they say they don’t set the rates, so can’t raise the pay rate. I’ve also checked this with the client and it’s a contract TDG/ND are tied into, nobody knows when it expires, wether its all true or not, who knows
I think you mean De Poel Ltd.
AGENCY DRIVERS BLACKLIST-
AWR, Agencies and becoming self employed…(long post)
Driveroneuk:
Spacemonkeypg:
It’s so sensitive that i’ll tell you what it was within the last 15months in the north west.
C+E Min charge 8hrs @ £12-15ph pay between £8-9ph
C Min charge 8hrs @ £9-12ph pay between £7-8ph
C1 Same as C or very little lower.
Thanks for that Spacemonkey, very useful.
What would overtime and Sat/Sun rates be?
Would some agencies tell drivers there is no O/T rate and its a flat rate (as they indeed do) but be charging the client O/T rates?
They are a kind of ball park figure. If there is no overtime rate in general its a higher rate for charge and pay. I could not say if agencies charge OT and not pay OT, without doubt some probably do. For weekend rates they would vary for each customer really and what they are prepared to pay. I suppose a good practice way of explaining it would be x1.5ph for Sat and x2 for the Sun, some agency users are always worried about the full time drivers knowing the higher agency rate of pay (if any) and complaining. But in essence the non security of the agency driver and agency justifies the additional cost per employed driver. If anything in today’s climate i would dare say agency staff are the best option and work rates and employment rates go up and down.
To assess the situation is easy.
All agencies are lying, cheating scumbags that will say and do anything to get what they want out of you…
Typical scenario:
I was asked to do a shift recently…I asked the rate and was told that it was a job rate (it was poor) as the job ‘only ever takes 8-9 hours tops’
I said Ok, we will use an hourly rate then rather than a job rate - that will be better for you agency guys…only 8 or 9 hours to pay out…
Dead silence from missy at the agency…
Apparently, no, the shifts were actually 12-14 hours average as a rule with this particular company…to do the normal run in 8-9 hours would have needed a sports car and no speed limits…
I politely told them to swivel at the rate they were offering…
So she lied to me, then 2 mins later admitted it…and was still suprised when I declined. So, not only was I lied to, she was very thick as well…
And that is a typical story from an agency…I’ve yet to find one not capable of prevaricating… 