Rjan:
Carryfast:
And yet somehow at the end of the day.We’ve got Corbyn having made it very clear in his own words that he believed we needed to stay in the EU.Rather than join Kate Hoey within GO.
And yet one has to carry the Labour party with them, and the other does not. What Corbyn wants is a more socialist Europe, and if not (because the EU proves to be unbreakably yoked to the interests of the rich and powerful) then a more socialist Britain. More socialism is more important than more European integration.
That differs from Blairites who want a single European market, and if for that they have to cut loose from socialism and reduce the European working classes to penury by the marketplace then so be it. Cameroons want the same, but don’t have any socialist agenda to cut loose from.
The Ukip approach is different again. They are simply against there being any rules in the single market - they want the single market to be even freer, and there to be less regulation of it. In a nutshell, they intend to do better by out-competing the rest of Europe and the rest of the world, by reducing wages relative to productivity (and smashing down through the European rules which uphold minimum standards for workers).
The appeal of Ukip for the rich can be explained. It is a coherent (if shortsighted) plan to say we will get Britain back to work within the capitalist model, by simply undercutting French and German wages (even Chinese wages), and leaving the EU will allow us to do that.
What’s not clear is how they’re attracting working class voters who have already been lashed by competition in free markets and who want their living standards to go up (not to steal work from the Chinese worker willing to work for buttons, by the Brit working for even fewer buttons!).
Most Brits don’t want more working hours available to them but at appreciably lower rates - they want more pay for the hours they’re already doing! And they especially don’t want to drop their pay rates, only to find the Germans do the same, so that everybody is back to square one in terms of available hours, but at substantially reduced rates than before!
If Brits wanted more hours for lower rates, they wouldn’t need to leave the EU. They could just compete with immigrants directly, by repealing the NMW and undercutting the wages of Eastern Europeans who are here until such time as they give up and go back home!
The irony of Socialists using the example of the wrong type of exploitative Capitalism,that takes advantage of cheap exploited Chinese labour,to make the case for Socialism. 
Here’s a clue the Labour vote went with UKIP because UKIP actually showed a move towards the protectionist anti immigration stance that both Blairite Labour and Socialist Labour oppose.‘But’ which a Nationalist Labour could obviously do much better.
As for UKIP I’d guess its implosion has a lot to do with the fact that finding itself in a position of power,based on a Nationalist Labour vote,that’s all about protectionist economics,as opposed to race to the bottom free market principles,was too much for it to stomach.Farage having seemed to show his true colours in that regard.
As I said it’s now time to cut the bs and for Labour to stand on the three different opposing and clearly laid out ideologies.
IE Blairite Labour,Socialist Labour and Nationalist Labour.
The Labour-UKIP swing vote suggests where that honest fight would end up.On that note you don’t seem to have answered the question as to why Corbyn hasn’t joined the breakaway Socialist Labour Party where he would expect to be found,choosing instead to try to take advantage of the Blairite vote by infiltrating Blairite Labour with all that implies.
As for Socialist bs Corbyn has proved that beyond doubt.
