In or Out- the EU referendum mega thread

[carryfast]

Stanley Knife:

Carryfast:
Firstly putting any faith at all in anyone who is on record as stating that ‘leaving’ would be a ‘disaster’ is naive in the extreme.

You do patronising so well.

I put my faith in very few people, and none of them are politicians!

Am I a cynical old git? ■■■■ right I am!! Cynicism is just another word for experience.

The idea of putting ‘faith’ in politicians is what democracy is all about.It’s just that I’d have a lot more faith in someone like Le Pen,in smashing Juncker’s Federal zb pile and its hold over us,by way of reforming it into a Confederal Constitution,than Leadsom just swapping EU for EEA.

[desypete]

Carryfast:

desypete:

Carryfast:
My problem is with the agenda behind so called ‘Brexit’.In which we’ve got the documented Thatcherite Farage playing the reformed Conservative and now supposedly working class hero.On a bs agenda of returning sovereignty and powers to the National parliament.Which conveniently just happens to be the same old choice between Europhile Federalist Socialists or cheap labour Europhile Federalist Thatcherite Conservatives.

When all Farage would have been expected to do.Was hold onto UKIP’s position in the PR elected European parliament and go for a Confederal Europe which gave the MEP’s all the powers of democratic sovereignty he was supposedly calling for. On that note I don’t remember any calls for such ‘reform’ by either UKIP or Cameron within his ‘re negotiations’.

you have lost me with your farage ranting ? i dont understand your points your making at all
just what do you expect the guy to do ?

he got the vote by standing up to all sorts over the years and i wouldn’t mind betting by now there must be death threats aimed at him, given what happend to the labour mp last month i am sure there must be some loony wanting to be the person that got farage

so i had a feeling if the vote went to the out that farage would be out of the job and have nothing left to do, however i do expect him to show up again in time when all this dust settles and a picture is starting to take shape

for example should there be any sort of watering down of the free movement of people you can bet he will start making noises again, but up to now there is nothing much happening as other things have to be done first like getting a new pm
then a team to tell the eu what we will and will not accept i hoped farage might be part of such a team but they all hate him in the political class you only had to see the reaction carswell got when he stood up in parliament to see the sort of thing farage has had all along this road from them lot in westminister

farage is like the malcom x or martin luther he had started a movement for his own people and i dont blame him one bit for getting his head down and getting out as now we all know what happened to martin luther etc

some of the remainers are more racist than a bnp memeber when it comes to turning on the natives of this land and they can and do get away with it

i can only thank farage for his courage to stand up and for getting this vote out there to the people anything else is a bonus

he had his moment when he told them jumped up Herberts, he told them 20 years ago he would lead a movement to get out of the eu and they all laughed at him, well there not laughing now are they he said. pure class

i still have to pinch myself to even belief its real and we are out of the eu and we are going to close the doors

the little people have had there say thanks to that mans hard work

what more do you want from him ?

Sorry desy but as I’ve said I think events will show that he’s conned his electorate including myself.On the basis that it was always going to be a tall order to expect anyone to go from committed Thatcherite to working class saviour and hero.

As for the question what ‘would I expect’ of him at this point.A statement that he’d like to see Cameron do the decent thing in invoking article 50 with immediate effect and all prospective Conservative PM’s rule out an EEA membership deal.Together with a request for the involvement of Kate Hoey and John Boyd at least at the highest levels of our Brexit negotiations.In addition to a stated preference for at least stated leavers like Liam Fox or David Davis to be nominated for the Conservative leadership.

Instead of which he’s walked away having put the initiative firmly in the hands of a repeat Europhile Federalist Thatcherite Conservative administration and all that implies.

While leaving the question.Why the big deal about returning powers to a known majority Federalist Europhile National parliament based on a dodgy electoral system.When we’ve got/had all the ingredients needed in the form of a PR elected,but reformed,European parliament,based on Confederal Nation State supremacy principles ?.

Oh wait UKIP isn’t a Nationalist Party.

just have a look at what has really happend here in the space of a few short weeks,
every bugger has jumped ship, back stabbing all over the place, the euro lot are also now falling apart there now taking a stance of THEY must start to listen to the people as they can see it coming in there own countrys and all this over there determined efforts of forcing free movement on people along with so many of there rules and regs that ordianry people at work have to follow and they change year in year out or sometimes in a matter of days

Europe is over now we can all go back to just being good friends and neighbours and trade freely with each other or at least that is what i hope is the end result i think they all now will have had this huge kick up there arse that they have to coincide what might of been a good idea at one time has turned into a monster out of control

we can try to predict who is going to do what where and when till the cows come home but the truth is we have to wait and see, but the news from the euro lot today shows up there already starting to divide

now we just have to sit back and wait to see what happens next, then the next problem is going to be how the hell do we get someone in power who will really be for all the people instead of just the lucky few
labour are all over the place which gives the torys the upperhand, i have no idea what ukip is going to do i guess right now there working out what the future is for them now the main mission has been won
i hope they do try to form a party for the people as they will do well in the north and challenge labour seats, they could end up doing what the snp have done in Scotland sending the torys and labour packing but they will do very badly in the citys or places were the political correctness is the norm

we need an old labour not this type of labour that has been around now since the blair years, the country is deeply divided and i really dont know how or what is going to change that but again that has been the direct result of the northen areas having more than there fair share of jobs gone replaced with zero hours working, or agency work or full time jobs that pay the same type of money you would of got 15 years ago

there are some decent well paid jobs out there but not enough employers have got away with murder for way to long

but first thing is first when we are out of the eu and able to trade freely with anyone in the world i can only think it will bring a lot of work to these lands and hopefully decent pay and conditions to go with it

for now though i am happy just to wait and see what happens next all i do know is farage and all the voters that were brave enough to vote for out have changed everything and ther

[desypete]

Carryfast:

Stanley Knife:

Carryfast:
Are you saying that where we are now,with the initiative in the hands of documented remainers like May or Leadsom,article 50 yet to be invoked who knows when,and neither prospective PM having ruled out swapping EU for EEA member state,is what was sold by Farage to the UKIP vote ?.In addition to the fact that ‘returning powers’ to the National parliament just contradicts UKIP’s policy by putting us back where we’ve always been with a Europhile Federalist National parliamentary majority.

Or that situation is supposedly better.Than going for a Confederal European parliament which gives supremacy to the MEP’s over the commissioners and National right of opt out,substitution and VETO within that parliament.

All the way through this thread you have been passionate for OUT, OUT, OUT, and yet now you want IN, IN, IN!! Did you not think of the situation we find ourselves in prior to the result? Because it seems you expect everyone else to have thought of it, and want to blame Farage and co for not thinking of it, whilst absolving yourself of any blame whatsoever.

Every one of us Brexiteers would like the situation to be different - a committed euroskeptic PM and government with a committed euroskeptic negotiating committee pushing forward the plans we have fought for for years - but the situation is what it is; we have a Conservative party in power, with a PM who, having resigned, is nothing but a lame duck. We have a leadership contest which has to go through the due process, a LEAVE movement under Johnson and Gove which didn’t have a plan ready for the day after, even though Farage and co did, and a new PM who will want to instill her people to negotiate the deal over exit. Therefore we must have someone who will, at least, put forward our wants and needs, if not fight tooth and nail for them. Much better Leadsom than the Establishments own Theresa May who will give the EU negotiators everything they wish.

If it wasn’t for Farage we wouldn’t have had a bloody referendum, and even then Cameron only gave in because he needed to pacify the threat UKIP posed to the result of the GE. Brown and Blair before him had done a merry dance desperate not to offer a referendum, the Labour party being the party of democracy that it is . Major before them should have ordered a referendum, as the Maastricht Treaty changed the relationship between the member states from within the EC to the new EU. So be grateful for small mercies; at least we have had a referendum and we have voted out . Now it’s more important that we get the deal we want, not the deal that the Remainers want.

Firstly putting any faith at all in anyone who is on record as stating that ‘leaving’ would be a ‘disaster’ is naive in the extreme.In which case there’s no reason to think that Leadsom is any more genuine in her supposed jump towards ‘Euroscepticism’ than May or ironically for that matter Thatcher was.Farage being on record as being an admirer of Thatcher.

As for the issue of Farage I’ve long held the view of a Confederal Europe as a preferable plan A with Brexit actually being plan B.Having then taken the line that we were actually in that plan B situation more or less on trust of Farage.

However my first doubts and reservations in that regard actually came when he clearly distanced UKIP from Le Pen’s FN against her calls for co operation.At which point the idea of joining her in going for a Confederal Europe would/should have been plain to anyone with any common sense.Having still naively chosen to give him the benefit of the doubt at that point.

Bearing in mind his silence since,in the face of the ‘caving in’ of the Conservative ‘Eurosceptics’ and the side lining of Kate Hoey among the rest of the GO movement and Cameron’s refusal to invoke article 50 and now the agenda of two remainers as new PM and their refusal to rule out swapping EU for EEA membership.Let alone adding to that silence by just then just walking away.There has to be a point where the doubts are confirmed.

All the signs being that Brexit has been compromised probably beyond the point of being saved.Because people who should know better can’t get their heads around the fact that it can’t be done without a committed Nationalist economic protectionist agenda behind it.On that note I’ll be very surprised if we aren’t in the middle of a Thatcherite Conservative agenda which just makes us an EEA member state.Assuming that Ken Clarke can’t get enough support to reverse the vote.

Which is why I’m suggesting that the best option now is to pre empt that move by going for a remain agenda in the form of the reformed Confederal Europe which UKIP would/should have been expected to put forward at the start.At least before bothering with the idea of trying to return sovereignty to a National Parliament,that’s hell bent on giving that sovereignty away to people like Merkel and Juncker.As part of it’s race to the bottom free markets agenda either by reversing the vote as Ken Clarke wants.Or going for EEA membership which is probably what May or Leadsom have in mind.

merkel has told juncker to do one when it comes to negotiation with the uk its been reported that she and here side of the eu want to be the main part of all negotiations. which is hardly surprising given the interest germany has with its selling to the uk there will be a good deal stuck there as it has to to suit both sides and juncker can jump up and down all he likes when it comes to big business money talks hence we really are in a good postion, not to bargin or bow down or concede, but to demand what we want and what we expect else people will just buy usa cars or japs cars as they will be a lot cheaper than a German one

but like i said in the previous post the crack are already showing up in the eu and there tune is changing big time, more and more people are saying they have to be more in tune with what the people of all the nations really want otherwise they will just end up with a lot less member states

[tommy_t]

Well as predicted the ■■■■ hurt millennial’s lost their anti democratic plight Petition calling for 2nd Brexit referendum rejected by UK govt after collecting 4.1mn signatures — RT UK News

[carryfast]

desypete:
Europe is over now we can all go back to just being good friends and neighbours and trade freely with each other or at least that is what i hope is the end result i think they all now will have had this huge kick up there arse that they have to coincide what might of been a good idea at one time has turned into a monster out of control

we can try to predict who is going to do what where and when till the cows come home but the truth is we have to wait and see, but the news from the euro lot today shows up there already starting to divide

now we just have to sit back and wait to see what happens next, then the next problem is going to be how the hell do we get someone in power who will really be for all the people instead of just the lucky few
labour are all over the place which gives the torys the upperhand, i have no idea what ukip is going to do i guess right now there working out what the future is for them now the main mission has been won
i hope they do try to form a party for the people as they will do well in the north and challenge labour seats, they could end up doing what the snp have done in Scotland sending the torys and labour packing but they will do very badly in the citys or places were the political correctness is the norm

we need an old labour not this type of labour that has been around now since the blair years, the country is deeply divided and i really dont know how or what is going to change that but again that has been the direct result of the northen areas having more than there fair share of jobs gone replaced with zero hours working, or agency work or full time jobs that pay the same type of money you would of got 15 years ago

there are some decent well paid jobs out there but not enough employers have got away with murder for way to long

but first thing is first when we are out of the eu and able to trade freely with anyone in the world i can only think it will bring a lot of work to these lands and hopefully decent pay and conditions to go with it

for now though i am happy just to wait and see what happens next all i do know is farage and all the voters that were brave enough to vote for out have changed everything and ther

Firstly proper Labour Euroscepticism was/is about the issue of sovereignty in large part ( rightly ) to actually ‘oppose’ the free markets angle of the single market.

IE we actually need to control trade to stop the situation of runaway trade deficits which we’ve had since joining it.Which translates as Brit jobs for German etc workers.Which was then added to by the race to the bottom free marketeering of East Euro membership.In which our taxes are used to pay for East Euro public spending in exchange for access to cheap East Euro labour by the fat cats of the CBI etc.In the form of both free movement of industry and capital and free movement of labour to do whatever jobs we’ve got left here.

Without people like Hoey and Boyd in the frame we’ve got no chance of sorting any of that.

While May or Leasdsom are all about maintaining that status quo for the fat cats of the CBI inevitably in the form of EEA membership.If not Ken Clarke finding a way to over turn the whole Brexit project in parliament.Bearing in mind that both Leadsom and May are remainers with the naive idea of so called Eurosceptic Conservatives now just a memory.

On that note trust me Le Pen was/is the real deal not Farage let alone May or Leadsom.While realistically these issues can only be solved at a Europe wide level and certainly not by Farage’s bs idea of ‘returning’ powers from Brussels to Westminster will fix anything.Bearing in mind that Westminster is the problem and has been since 1973,not the solution.

[carryfast]

tommy t:
Well as predicted the ■■■■ hurt millennial’s lost their anti democratic plight Petition calling for 2nd Brexit referendum rejected by UK govt after collecting 4.1mn signatures — RT UK News

Ironically it’s probably more a case of the government couldn’t care less because we’re probably just going to swap EU for EEA anyway.While they’ve also got the parliamentary majority to over turn the vote if they wanted to.

[carryfast]

desypete:
merkel has told juncker to do one when it comes to negotiation with the uk its been reported that she and here side of the eu want to be the main part of all negotiations. which is hardly surprising given the interest germany has with its selling to the uk there will be a good deal stuck there as it has to to suit both sides and juncker can jump up and down all he likes when it comes to big business money talks hence we really are in a good postion, not to bargin or bow down or concede, but to demand what we want and what we expect else people will just buy usa cars or japs cars as they will be a lot cheaper than a German one

but like i said in the previous post the crack are already showing up in the eu and there tune is changing big time, more and more people are saying they have to be more in tune with what the people of all the nations really want otherwise they will just end up with a lot less member states

Unfortunately I doubt if May’s or Leadsom’s agenda is to sort out the Germans.While the cheap labour free movement issue is obviously as much what the CBI and the Conservative vote in general wants as Juncker does.

A statement that EEA membership is off the table would be a good sign in that regard.I won’t hold my breath waiting for it.

[desypete]

Carryfast:

desypete:
Europe is over now we can all go back to just being good friends and neighbours and trade freely with each other or at least that is what i hope is the end result i think they all now will have had this huge kick up there arse that they have to coincide what might of been a good idea at one time has turned into a monster out of control

we can try to predict who is going to do what where and when till the cows come home but the truth is we have to wait and see, but the news from the euro lot today shows up there already starting to divide

now we just have to sit back and wait to see what happens next, then the next problem is going to be how the hell do we get someone in power who will really be for all the people instead of just the lucky few
labour are all over the place which gives the torys the upperhand, i have no idea what ukip is going to do i guess right now there working out what the future is for them now the main mission has been won
i hope they do try to form a party for the people as they will do well in the north and challenge labour seats, they could end up doing what the snp have done in Scotland sending the torys and labour packing but they will do very badly in the citys or places were the political correctness is the norm

we need an old labour not this type of labour that has been around now since the blair years, the country is deeply divided and i really dont know how or what is going to change that but again that has been the direct result of the northen areas having more than there fair share of jobs gone replaced with zero hours working, or agency work or full time jobs that pay the same type of money you would of got 15 years ago

there are some decent well paid jobs out there but not enough employers have got away with murder for way to long

but first thing is first when we are out of the eu and able to trade freely with anyone in the world i can only think it will bring a lot of work to these lands and hopefully decent pay and conditions to go with it

for now though i am happy just to wait and see what happens next all i do know is farage and all the voters that were brave enough to vote for out have changed everything and ther

Firstly proper Labour Euroscepticism was/is about the issue of sovereignty in large part ( rightly ) to actually ‘oppose’ the free markets angle of the single market.

IE we actually need to control trade to stop the situation of runaway trade deficits which we’ve had since joining it.Which translates as Brit jobs for German etc workers.Which was then added to by the race to the bottom free marketeering of East Euro membership.In which our taxes are used to pay for East Euro public spending in exchange for access to cheap East Euro labour by the fat cats of the CBI etc.In the form of both free movement of industry and capital and free movement of labour to do whatever jobs we’ve got left here.

Without people like Hoey and Boyd in the frame we’ve got no chance of sorting any of that.

While May or Leasdsom are all about maintaining that status quo for the fat cats of the CBI inevitably in the form of EEA membership.If not Ken Clarke finding a way to over turn the whole Brexit project in parliament.Bearing in mind that both Leadsom and May are remainers with the naive idea of so called Eurosceptic Conservatives now just a memory.

On that note trust me Le Pen was/is the real deal not Farage let alone May or Leadsom.While realistically these issues can only be solved at a Europe wide level and certainly not by Farage’s bs idea of ‘returning’ powers from Brussels to Westminster will fix anything.Bearing in mind that Westminster is the problem and has been since 1973,not the solution.

it seems we are all out of touch with what really matters in this country, if you watched the andrew marr show today it would seem what really matters is if a women has have a child or not you need one or the other to be fit enough to govern us.

i couldn’t believe i was seeing 2 women and one bloke all making waves over an issue about being a mother or not

this is why the political correct nuts are so out of touch with ordinary people who dont give a toss if someone is or has been a mum or not but to the feminist movement it seems like all hell has broke loose. even the news papers are having a field day going to try to smear.
i hope angie wins now and gives them yet another bloody nose, when will these people wake up that the more they play these silly games which dont matter a dot to anyone other than there own perverse world that people given the chance will do exactly the opposite to how there thinking

good news about ukip going to have a crack at winning lots of seats up north and it was good to hear the guy going on about trying to sort a new fresh party that will be for the working people and also how the idea of referendums has proved a good thing for letting the people make there voices heard, time and time again the political correct world tries to do our thinking for us and what they think we think matters like if a leaders is or has been a mum or not. the idea to them that most people wouldnt give a flying f
doesn’t sink in

i nearly fell off my chair when corbyn was on and smiling saying he actually thinks the labour party is in a good postion at the moment with over half a million members ?
he faces being wiped out in the north of england and he thinks labour is doing well ? talk about digging your head in the sands or maybe its because there around the citys so much and because there popular there it somehow wipes out what happends outside of them ?

i dont know but i dont think it matters who is leader of the labour party any more as there just so out of touch there not going to change or put the man in the street first, nationalism doesn’t matter, to them its a rude word in there eyes.

now that ukip are going to field a team i wish there was a general election looming, we need to reform from the top, down, everything about politics. a party that will hold refernedums to makes sure on importain issues they get the backing of the people sounds a good move forward and proportional representation would at least give voters a vote that matters in elections

as for the eu lot there just dead fish, the eu is going to go away in its current form the free movement of people will be changed that much i am sure and so it dam well should as no country should ever lose control of its own boarders or lose control of being able to run the show they way the people want.

[desypete]

tommy t:
Well as predicted the ■■■■ hurt millennial’s lost their anti democratic plight Petition calling for 2nd Brexit referendum rejected by UK govt after collecting 4.1mn signatures — RT UK News

of course it wouldnt get the numbers needed it was never in doubt

funny enough there is a petition to scrap the dcpc i really hope that gets scrapped as soon as

[rjan]

desypete:
i nearly fell off my chair when corbyn was on and smiling saying he actually thinks the labour party is in a good postion at the moment with over half a million members ?
he faces being wiped out in the north of england and he thinks labour is doing well ? talk about digging your head in the sands or maybe its because there around the citys so much and because there popular there it somehow wipes out what happends outside of them ?

But on a proper analysis, Labour is facing northern electoral wipeout from radical parties on both wings, not from the Blairites on the centre ground. Meanwhile, it is the Blairites who are creating the internal tensions with those who want Labour to be more radical, which is having both an anti-radical effect and creating a threat of disintegration.

Labour could do more to attract Ukippers, for example, by promising to improve wages and stop immigrants under-cutting, but they’ve got to struggle with the Blairites who say the free market mustn’t be interfered with.

i dont know but i dont think it matters who is leader of the labour party any more as there just so out of touch there not going to change or put the man in the street first, nationalism doesn’t matter, to them its a rude word in there eyes.

The irony is that Corbyn is far more anti-EU, and therefore more in touch with the “man in the street”, than the party as a whole, and yet it’s not unusual to find the same man in the street criticising him as an ineffectual leader and criticising the strain he’s putting on the party.

now that ukip are going to field a team i wish there was a general election looming, we need to reform from the top, down, everything about politics. a party that will hold refernedums to makes sure on importain issues they get the backing of the people sounds a good move forward and proportional representation would at least give voters a vote that matters in elections

PR is good for radical parties and disciplining political representatives into obedience of the electorate, but as much good for the radical right as the left. The right tend to advocate an intensification of familiar political themes or naïve thinking, and it’s not necessarily clear what social structures need to be in place to enable PR whilst avoiding right wingers exploiting it. Similarly, even if the Brexit campaign has shown what people are against, it is obvious that most of what Brexiteers claimed to be for has turned out to be lies.

I have also yet to hear any Brexiteer who is now trying to clarify what they are for, to say that settled workers’ wages must go up dramatically and workers job security must improve, which is probably what most working class Brexiteers actually want to see.

Most people putting Hitler into power under PR didn’t vote (and wouldn’t have voted) for gas chambers - that was a secret agenda, or a logical conclusion, that naïve right wing supporters don’t seem to sense and avoid ahead of time (or who, perhaps, naïvely accept it as an unfortunate but acceptable consequence that will primarily cause suffering to others and not themselves, rather than a policy so contentious it will cause the crust of civilisation beneath their feet to disintegrate).

[carryfast]

Rjan:
I have also yet to hear any Brexiteer who is now trying to clarify what they are for, to say that settled workers’ wages must go up dramatically and workers job security must improve, which is probably what most working class Brexiteers actually want to see.

Most people putting Hitler into power under PR didn’t vote (and wouldn’t have voted) for gas chambers - that was a secret agenda, or a logical conclusion, that naïve right wing supporters don’t seem to sense and avoid ahead of time (or who, perhaps, naïvely accept it as an unfortunate but acceptable consequence that will primarily cause suffering to others and not themselves, rather than a policy so contentious it will cause the crust of civilisation beneath their feet to disintegrate).

It’s clear what the main part of the Brexit vote wants.They want a Nationalist Labour Party ( NLP sounds right ) that isn’t ruled by Juncker’s Socialist and cheap labour alliance driven Federalist zb pile.It also wants a protectionist economic policy that puts the indigenous workforce first whether stopping the free movement of labour,or massive disproportionate levels of imports from,or the re location of British industry to,either Germany or the cheap labour East European states of the EU.

Or for that matter cheap Chinese imports which, ironically for your ideas,are all about taking advantage of the exploitative low wage Socialist system.

While there’s no more reason to think that such an agenda has any more connection with Hitler’s Socialist genocidal madness as Collins’ Irish Free State did.

On that note you really need to take another close look at your currently distorted ideologically indoctrinated idea of the definition of ‘left’ and the idea that Nationalist means ■■■■.Here’s a clue it doesn’t.

Where I do disagree with desy is that he’s going to be massively disappointed if he thinks that Leadsom and her,race to the bottom,free marketeering,pretend Eurosceptic Cons,are going to deliver it.

[tommy_t]

Rjan:
The irony is that Corbyn is far more anti-EU, and therefore more in touch with the “man in the street”, than the party as a whole, and yet it’s not unusual to find the same man in the street criticising him as an ineffectual leader and criticising the strain he’s putting on the party.

I have also yet to hear any Brexiteer who is now trying to clarify what they are for, to say that settled workers’ wages must go up dramatically and workers job security must improve, which is probably what most working class Brexiteers actually want to see.

If corbyn win a GE ge would flood the uk with imported labour and rapeugees, the man is a fool and a danger to this country and his own people, how can someone like him be for the working classes ? because the country could not cope with more people it’s already at breaking point NHS ,Schools, local authorities , road networks affordable housing . even rented property in some areas

Of course most want higher wages, and less undercutting by foreign companies operating in the uk that the brits cannot compete with , butr for wages to increase the size of the imported labour pool will have to shrink and be tightly controlled in the future, there needs to be better a more capable border force, and all failed asylum seekers should be removed ASAP , changes in the law may be required to close the loophole that many bogus refugees (aka rapeugees) are exploiting having no id , Having no id should mean no entry into the uk deported to last country, so back to France or Belgium in most cases without further waste of tax payers money, and transported back on the most basic form of transport , IE no nice coaches,

[carryfast]

tommy t:
If corbyn win a GE ge would flood the uk with imported labour and rapeugees, the man is a fool and a danger to this country and his own people

+1

Fool is an understatement.Socialist zb wit would be more accurate.

[ovlov_jay]

Carryfast:

tommy t:
If corbyn win a GE ge would flood the uk with imported labour and rapeugees, the man is a fool and a danger to this country and his own people

+1

Fool is an understatement.Socialist zb wit would be more accurate.

And don’t forget he’d do away with our nuclear deterrent. Opening the borders and dropping defence is like setting fire to your house and turning the water off. I think he’s mind is trapped at Woodstock. Peace and love man and all that crap

[carryfast]

OVLOV JAY:
And don’t forget he’d do away with our nuclear deterrent. Opening the borders and dropping defence is like setting fire to your house and turning the water off. I think he’s mind is trapped at Woodstock. Peace and love man and all that crap

Naive pacifist when it suits him.But who supports an EU agenda which wants to pick a fight with Russia over moving the EU and NATO into Russia’s back yard including Ukraine.Go figure.

Although to be fair I’d be ‘very surprised’ if the US doesn’t actually hold the launch and target codes in which case we might as well base the ‘UK’ deterrent in US ports.

[desypete]

Rjan:

desypete:
i nearly fell off my chair when corbyn was on and smiling saying he actually thinks the labour party is in a good postion at the moment with over half a million members ?
he faces being wiped out in the north of england and he thinks labour is doing well ? talk about digging your head in the sands or maybe its because there around the citys so much and because there popular there it somehow wipes out what happends outside of them ?

But on a proper analysis, Labour is facing northern electoral wipeout from radical parties on both wings, not from the Blairites on the centre ground. Meanwhile, it is the Blairites who are creating the internal tensions with those who want Labour to be more radical, which is having both an anti-radical effect and creating a threat of disintegration.

Labour could do more to attract Ukippers, for example, by promising to improve wages and stop immigrants under-cutting, but they’ve got to struggle with the Blairites who say the free market mustn’t be interfered with.
here we go back to good old adolf
you havent mentioned the cru clux clan yet ? but i am sure you will find some sort of reffernce to it trying to prove we are all racist idiots

brexit is all about leaving the eu its not a political party, we took a vote on in or out not which party is going to do what for us if we are in or out, the freemovent of people has caused huge offence to the ordinary man in the street, its taken our good natures and kicked us where it hurts in our own living standards all thanks to the greedy nationals from the eu coming over here trying to get rich quick
i am sure the poles and other nationals must think this country is loony for letting them all come over here at the expense of our own people as i am sure they wouldnt stand for it should it be happening in there own country

or do you believe if millions of brits ended up in there country they would welcome us with open arms and glady take a back seat with there health services, schools, jobs, housing ?

if you must go for history lessons then look no futher back than the 80s when brits went out to germany for work, it didnt last long before they took actions to protect there own workforce and end the british invasion.

were they racists aginst the brits ? or merely trying to protect there own people first ?

the race card playing has to end as it just doesnt work anymore, as the vote proves, it might make you feel good to think the whole of the brexit lot are racists and the next step is hitler clones but the truth is much simpler than all that hog wash
britain is trying to put its own people first as the people have had enough of being a jolly good european, not to mention all the crazt laws that have been imposed on us from hight limits in metric to selling things in lites or kilos to the total devalued of the old pound from 240 pennys to just 100 pence all that was bad enough but a whole country had to change its ways which its done, but still they keep on bringin in rules and regs like the dcpc the work time directive all sorts of madness that is not optional its forced on us, and the free movement of people has been rammed down our necks to breaking point

so dont be surprized there is such a back lash of anti eu feeling in the parts of the country that have been hit the hardest.

i dont know but i dont think it matters who is leader of the labour party any more as there just so out of touch there not going to change or put the man in the street first, nationalism doesn’t matter, to them its a rude word in there eyes.

The irony is that Corbyn is far more anti-EU, and therefore more in touch with the “man in the street”, than the party as a whole, and yet it’s not unusual to find the same man in the street criticising him as an ineffectual leader and criticising the strain he’s putting on the party.

now that ukip are going to field a team i wish there was a general election looming, we need to reform from the top, down, everything about politics. a party that will hold refernedums to makes sure on importain issues they get the backing of the people sounds a good move forward and proportional representation would at least give voters a vote that matters in elections

PR is good for radical parties and disciplining political representatives into obedience of the electorate, but as much good for the radical right as the left. The right tend to advocate an intensification of familiar political themes or naïve thinking, and it’s not necessarily clear what social structures need to be in place to enable PR whilst avoiding right wingers exploiting it. Similarly, even if the Brexit campaign has shown what people are against, it is obvious that most of what Brexiteers claimed to be for has turned out to be lies.

I have also yet to hear any Brexiteer who is now trying to clarify what they are for, to say that settled workers’ wages must go up dramatically and workers job security must improve, which is probably what most working class Brexiteers actually want to see.

Most people putting Hitler into power under PR didn’t vote (and wouldn’t have voted) for gas chambers - that was a secret agenda, or a logical conclusion, that naïve right wing supporters don’t seem to sense and avoid ahead of time (or who, perhaps, naïvely accept it as an unfortunate but acceptable consequence that will primarily cause suffering to others and not themselves, rather than a policy so contentious it will cause the crust of civilisation beneath their feet to disintegrate).

[stanley_knife]

Carryfast:
Without people like Hoey and Boyd in the frame we’ve got no chance of sorting any of that.

You seem to have dropped David Davis from the list recently. I wonder why?

[carryfast]

desypete:
here we go back to good old adolf
you havent mentioned the cru clux clan yet ? but i am sure you will find some sort of reffernce to it trying to prove we are all racist idiots

brexit is all about leaving the eu its not a political party, we took a vote on in or out not which party is going to do what for us if we are in or out, the freemovent of people has caused huge offence to the ordinary man in the street, its taken our good natures and kicked us where it hurts in our own living standards all thanks to the greedy nationals from the eu coming over here trying to get rich quick
i am sure the poles and other nationals must think this country is loony for letting them all come over here at the expense of our own people as i am sure they wouldnt stand for it should it be happening in there own country

or do you believe if millions of brits ended up in there country they would welcome us with open arms and glady take a back seat with there health services, schools, jobs, housing ?

if you must go for history lessons then look no futher back than the 80s when brits went out to germany for work, it didnt last long before they took actions to protect there own workforce and end the british invasion.

were they racists aginst the brits ? or merely trying to protect there own people first ?

the race card playing has to end as it just doesnt work anymore, as the vote proves, it might make you feel good to think the whole of the brexit lot are racists and the next step is hitler clones but the truth is much simpler than all that hog wash
britain is trying to put its own people first as the people have had enough of being a jolly good european, not to mention all the crazt laws that have been imposed on us from hight limits in metric to selling things in lites or kilos to the total devalued of the old pound from 240 pennys to just 100 pence all that was bad enough but a whole country had to change its ways which its done, but still they keep on bringin in rules and regs like the dcpc the work time directive all sorts of madness that is not optional its forced on us, and the free movement of people has been rammed down our necks to breaking point

Realistically Labour now has to split three ways.Between the champagne Socialist red tory Blairites which already exist as New Labour and Socialist Labour which already exists as a seperate party.As opposed to the key which we now need in the form of Nationalist Labour.

While as it stands Corbyn is just a typical Socialist in trying to take advantage of the Blairite vote by infiltrating New Labour to further the aims of the Socialists.Because he knows that he won’t get an electoral mandate in the country by standing on an honest ticket where he should be under Socialist Labour.

On that note both New Labour and Socialist Labour are running around like terrified headless chickens in the knowledge that their bs game is up just as soon as the Labour vote realises the key point that Nationalist doesn’t mean ■■■■ and never did.

[carryfast]

Stanley Knife:

Carryfast:
Without people like Hoey and Boyd in the frame we’ve got no chance of sorting any of that.

You seem to have dropped David Davis from the list recently. I wonder why?

To be fair,like Fox,with him out of the frame for ‘whatever reason’ ( Europhile Tory whips maybe ? ) there isn’t much point.

While I don’t think Davis or even Farage were ever going to be at the forefront of the type of anti free markets protectionist economics,that Hoey,like Shore before her,would be all about anyway.

[rjan]

tommy t:
If corbyn win a GE ge would flood the uk with imported labour and rapeugees

Corbyn has been voting against the EU for 40 years, and seems to be openly against EU free movement. I’m sure he’s not dead set against immigration, but I don’t know why you think he’d be in favour of flooding us with imported labour. He’s in favour of taking refugees in if necessary, but he has also opposed all the wars of late which created such a large refugee problem.

the man is a fool and a danger to this country and his own people, how can someone like him be for the working classes ? because the country could not cope with more people it’s already at breaking point NHS ,Schools, local authorities , road networks affordable housing . even rented property in some areas

Are you sure you know what Corbyn’s policies actually are? The fact that he’s in favour of taking in refugees is not an appreciably different position to the Blairites or the Tories (or many others). Where he does differ from the Blairites (Hilary Benn, for example, who is trying to oust him), is he’s against the military follies that have created these tidal waves of refugees.

So, if you’re against huge numbers of refugees, you would seem to be on Corbyn’s side in solving the problem at root (and against most of those who were in New Labour, not to mention the Tory party, who keep supporting war and military action).

Or do you think it’s necessary to smash states like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and almost Syria, but that the waves of refugees it creates must still be kept out?

Of course most want higher wages, and less undercutting by foreign companies operating in the uk that the brits cannot compete with , butr for wages to increase the size of the imported labour pool will have to shrink and be tightly controlled in the future,

And Corbyn supports these restrictions, and thinks that the EU can only continue if it upholds workers’ rights and living standards. It’s the people who are trying to topple him who don’t believe in these things.

there needs to be better a more capable border force, and all failed asylum seekers should be removed ASAP , changes in the law may be required to close the loophole that many bogus refugees (aka rapeugees) are exploiting having no id , Having no id should mean no entry into the uk deported to last country, so back to France or Belgium in most cases without further waste of tax payers money, and transported back on the most basic form of transport , IE no nice coaches,

There’d be a difference on these points but do asylum seekers really feature as large in your life as your wages, your access to housing, or your kids’ education? I know a lot of people think asylum seekers are taking houses and school places, but broadly the real cause is simply that they aren’t building remotely enough houses (like they did in the 60s) and are closing schools down (or were doing in the late 90s and early 00s), and have repealed the workers’ rights that people had in the past (until Thatcher really, and New Labour didn’t reimplement them).

In other words, the right-wing attacks on wages, schools, housebuilding, and the health service, would be attacked even if there wasn’t a single immigrant in the country.