Couldn’t stop laughing 
Carryfast:
anon84679660:
Remainers are entitled to a say:Fine I’ve changed my mind I’m now a remainer.So what about reforming the EU parliament into a Confederal system from a Federal one.In which the MEP’s have supremacy over the commissioners and the national right of opt out,substitution and VETO.IE surely the remainers wouldn’t want to show,that they are just an undemocratic bunch of zb wits,who don’t do democracy,twice.
Remainers never actually had any power, other than having an illusionary majority of the mis-informed at one time.
There’s no reforms to be had. The entire process is anti rather than non democratic.
The socialist ideal was that the wealthier countries (eg. Britain) give of their decent economy to those other weaker economies who also benefit by coming here and effectively receiving a double handout advantage. There are NO financial institutions that would lend me a mortgage to buy a decent property in Poland for example, and I wouldn’t want to buy property in most of the other countries either. Britain is present in the EU to be a cash cow only. The back payments create the illusion that to “Leave” would somehow mean “Less money” when in fact it’s just an upheaval, and more money - should our government of the day decide to re-allocated that same money on a ring-fenced basis.
I don’t think Osbourne can be trusted to do that. If he were to try - he’d have to end the entire austerity programme on the spot. Where’s his credibility then?
We don’t get our hands on our own cash - until we stop paying it over in membership fees. These are NOT to be confused with merely paying our way for the trade we receive, eg. settlement for goods already delivered/in transit.
Never mind about “Article 50” - we should have stopped paying any bureaucrat fees as of 6am Friday 24th June. Cameron resigning has well and truly snookered THAT though. If it turns out that I’ve got Osbourne all wrong, and in fact he’s been “missing a lot” of late, working hard to cancel all our proverbial direct debits and standing orders to the EU parliament - then I await to be corrected with interest… 
Dolph:
Couldn’t stop laughing
A country that only exists because of Nationalism and secession fom the UK trying to use sarcasm to make the case for a Federal Europe.You couldn’t make this zb up. 
tommy t:
Dolph:
Polish family's Plymouth home damaged in 'race hate arson attack' - BBC News
With the bbc reporting it who is to say it’s true? It’s possible that they made the letter or had it made , set fire to their house for insurance payout , wouldn’t be the first to do something like that , with a added race hate card
Maybe they ■■■■■■ someone off ? why they all seem to be reporting hate crimes since the referendum, if they are happening as often then i find it very hard to accept the same amount of these crimes wasn’t happening before it, just that the pro EU media didn’t bother to report it back then
You are talking BS Tom and you know it, BS about the Polish family and about the hate crimes in UK. The police reports are clear, there is huge rise on hate crimes.
"Police recorded a 42% rise in complaints of hate incidents – more than 3,000 – in the weeks before and after the EU referendum, they revealed on Friday.
It comes at a time of rising reported hate crime in the aftermath of the campaign and vote that saw Britain elect to leave the European Union. The new figures released on Friday showed a large rise in reported incidents, averaging over 200 a day. Police said 3,076 hate crimes and incidents were reported to forces across the UK between 16 and 30 June; one week before and one week after the vote on 23 June.
Police chiefs said the rise amounted to a 42% increase in reporting week on week, and an increase of 915 reports compared to the same time last year. Privately some police chiefs fear the real figure could be higher, with past studies suggesting just one in four hate crimes are reported to police. The most offences, some 289, were recorded on 25 June, the first full day after the result of the vote in favour of Brexit was announced".
Winseer:
Carryfast:
anon84679660:
Remainers are entitled to a say:Fine I’ve changed my mind I’m now a remainer.So what about reforming the EU parliament into a Confederal system from a Federal one.In which the MEP’s have supremacy over the commissioners and the national right of opt out,substitution and VETO.IE surely the remainers wouldn’t want to show,that they are just an undemocratic bunch of zb wits,who don’t do democracy,twice.
Remainers never actually had any power, other than having an illusionary majority of the mis-informed at one time.
There’s no reforms to be had. The entire process is anti rather than non democratic.
The socialist ideal was that the wealthier countries (eg. Britain) give of their decent economy to those other weaker economies who also benefit by coming here and effectively receiving a double handout advantage. There are NO financial institutions that would lend me a mortgage to buy a decent property in Poland for example, and I wouldn’t want to buy property in most of the other countries either. Britain is present in the EU to be a cash cow only. The back payments create the illusion that to “Leave” would somehow mean “Less money” when in fact it’s just an upheaval, and more money - should our government of the day decide to re-allocated that same money on a ring-fenced basis.
I don’t think Osbourne can be trusted to do that. If he were to try - he’d have to end the entire austerity programme on the spot. Where’s his credibility then?
We don’t get our hands on our own cash - until we stop paying it over in membership fees. These are NOT to be confused with merely paying our way for the trade we receive, eg. settlement for goods already delivered/in transit.
Never mind about “Article 50” - we should have stopped paying any bureaucrat fees as of 6am Friday 24th June. Cameron resigning has well and truly snookered THAT though. If it turns out that I’ve got Osbourne all wrong, and in fact he’s been “missing a lot” of late, working hard to cancel all our proverbial direct debits and standing orders to the EU parliament - then I await to be corrected with interest…
I don’t think we can stop any of our responsibilities under the EU treaties until article 50’s conditions have first all been discharged.That would obviously include our net contribution figure.
My problem is with the agenda behind so called ‘Brexit’.In which we’ve got the documented Thatcherite Farage playing the reformed Conservative and now supposedly working class hero.On a bs agenda of returning sovereignty and powers to the National parliament.Which conveniently just happens to be the same old choice between Europhile Federalist Socialists or cheap labour Europhile Federalist Thatcherite Conservatives.
When all Farage would have been expected to do.Was hold onto UKIP’s position in the PR elected European parliament and go for a Confederal Europe which gave the MEP’s all the powers of democratic sovereignty he was supposedly calling for. 
On that note I don’t remember any calls for such ‘reform’ by either UKIP or Cameron within his ‘re negotiations’.
Dolph:
tommy t:
Dolph:
Polish family's Plymouth home damaged in 'race hate arson attack' - BBC NewsWith the bbc reporting it who is to say it’s true? It’s possible that they made the letter or had it made , set fire to their house for insurance payout , wouldn’t be the first to do something like that , with a added race hate card
Maybe they ■■■■■■ someone off ? why they all seem to be reporting hate crimes since the referendum, if they are happening as often then i find it very hard to accept the same amount of these crimes wasn’t happening before it, just that the pro EU media didn’t bother to report it back thenYou are talking BS Tom and you know it, BS about the Polish family and about the hate crimes in UK. The police reports are clear, there is huge rise on hate crimes.
"Police recorded a 42% rise in complaints of hate incidents – more than 3,000 – in the weeks before and after the EU referendum, they revealed on Friday.
It comes at a time of rising reported hate crime in the aftermath of the campaign and vote that saw Britain elect to leave the European Union. The new figures released on Friday showed a large rise in reported incidents, averaging over 200 a day. Police said 3,076 hate crimes and incidents were reported to forces across the UK between 16 and 30 June; one week before and one week after the vote on 23 June.
Police chiefs said the rise amounted to a 42% increase in reporting week on week, and an increase of 915 reports compared to the same time last year. Privately some police chiefs fear the real figure could be higher, with past studies suggesting just one in four hate crimes are reported to police. The most offences, some 289, were recorded on 25 June, the first full day after the result of the vote in favour of Brexit was announced".
Why would anyone see any connection between the democratic process to solve the issue of EU economic migration v taking a pointless criminal vigilante one instead at exactly the same time.
IE what changed just because of the referendum in that regard.While it’s obvious that it’s the EU immigrant community that seems to think that it has something supposedly to lose from that process.IE possible potential motive for false reports with the intention of discrediting that process.
On that note maybe we’ll need to see how many of the ‘reports’ turn into charges and convictions based on real evidence.
anon84679660:
Carryfast:
anon84679660:
Remainers are entitled to a say:Fine I’ve changed my mind I’m now a remainer.So what about reforming the EU parliament into a Confederal system from a Federal one.In which the MEP’s have supremacy over the commissioners and the national right of opt out,substitution and VETO.IE surely the remainers wouldn’t want to show,that they are just an undemocratic bunch of zb wits,who don’t do democracy,twice.
How about you start with telling people/the voters the truth.
You just can’t stomach, your idols have been telling lies and that’s how they won the referendum.
If people had been told the truth, the outcome would have bene completely different, and that’s what is not allowing you to sleep, you feel obliged to be posting in here 24/7 to make sure leavers don’t start doubting their decision and demanding rerun of the referendum.
are you still crying ?
the people of this country were threaten with job losses, an emergency budget, told they would be over 4 k worse off if they voted to leave. that is a pretty bad state of affairs for any right thinking person to not let it affect how they would vote
but at the end of the day the people had there say as they value there own country and want to try to keep what is left of it before its to late and we become the minority in our own lands
you can try clutching at as many straws as you wish but unless there are less and less migrants in these land then the people will not change there votes in big enough numbers the odd few might but then i am sure those who voted to remain out of fear of how much worse they would be etc would change there vote now as they can see there was no truth in it there not worse off as predicted or threatened. everything is ok apart from there not closing the doors quick enough for my liking
Dolph:
tommy t:
Dolph:
Polish family's Plymouth home damaged in 'race hate arson attack' - BBC NewsWith the bbc reporting it who is to say it’s true? It’s possible that they made the letter or had it made , set fire to their house for insurance payout , wouldn’t be the first to do something like that , with a added race hate card
Maybe they ■■■■■■ someone off ? why they all seem to be reporting hate crimes since the referendum, if they are happening as often then i find it very hard to accept the same amount of these crimes wasn’t happening before it, just that the pro EU media didn’t bother to report it back thenYou are talking BS Tom and you know it, BS about the Polish family and about the hate crimes in UK. The police reports are clear, there is huge rise on hate crimes.
"Police recorded a 42% rise in complaints of hate incidents – more than 3,000 – in the weeks before and after the EU referendum, they revealed on Friday.
It comes at a time of rising reported hate crime in the aftermath of the campaign and vote that saw Britain elect to leave the European Union. The new figures released on Friday showed a large rise in reported incidents, averaging over 200 a day. Police said 3,076 hate crimes and incidents were reported to forces across the UK between 16 and 30 June; one week before and one week after the vote on 23 June.
Police chiefs said the rise amounted to a 42% increase in reporting week on week, and an increase of 915 reports compared to the same time last year. Privately some police chiefs fear the real figure could be higher, with past studies suggesting just one in four hate crimes are reported to police. The most offences, some 289, were recorded on 25 June, the first full day after the result of the vote in favour of Brexit was announced".
what is it exactly your trying to say here ?
fact that over 17 million people do not want the high numbers of migrants so they voted out
do you want those 17 million people to be arrested or band from voting ? do you want those votes not allowed as it simply doesn’t suit what you want ?
now 17 million people is a lot of people and i am sure that there will be some people in that number that are very racist and full of hate
they would be that way with or without a vote
maybe it is hard for you to fully under stand but say this was poland or germany and everyone was flocking to there lands for the rich pickings like there doing over here, and say it started to impact on the way of life in the locals areas they have shown up in with such high numbers
now what on earth would you think the nationals of that country would be feeling ? would you be surprised if given the chance to vote out and stop the madness from getting worse that they jump at the chance to try to save there own lands from the mob of English that have shown up in there home country ?
now for some reason you seem to want this country to be a home to everyone around the world who wishes to come here or if people dont let it happen then there racists or they hate migrants or they have been brain washed with lies
just face the truth and its that people themselves are fed up of how its all ended up and they want to stop it
Carryfast:
Winseer:
Carryfast:
anon84679660:
Remainers are entitled to a say:Fine I’ve changed my mind I’m now a remainer.So what about reforming the EU parliament into a Confederal system from a Federal one.In which the MEP’s have supremacy over the commissioners and the national right of opt out,substitution and VETO.IE surely the remainers wouldn’t want to show,that they are just an undemocratic bunch of zb wits,who don’t do democracy,twice.
Remainers never actually had any power, other than having an illusionary majority of the mis-informed at one time.
There’s no reforms to be had. The entire process is anti rather than non democratic.
The socialist ideal was that the wealthier countries (eg. Britain) give of their decent economy to those other weaker economies who also benefit by coming here and effectively receiving a double handout advantage. There are NO financial institutions that would lend me a mortgage to buy a decent property in Poland for example, and I wouldn’t want to buy property in most of the other countries either. Britain is present in the EU to be a cash cow only. The back payments create the illusion that to “Leave” would somehow mean “Less money” when in fact it’s just an upheaval, and more money - should our government of the day decide to re-allocated that same money on a ring-fenced basis.
I don’t think Osbourne can be trusted to do that. If he were to try - he’d have to end the entire austerity programme on the spot. Where’s his credibility then?
We don’t get our hands on our own cash - until we stop paying it over in membership fees. These are NOT to be confused with merely paying our way for the trade we receive, eg. settlement for goods already delivered/in transit.
Never mind about “Article 50” - we should have stopped paying any bureaucrat fees as of 6am Friday 24th June. Cameron resigning has well and truly snookered THAT though. If it turns out that I’ve got Osbourne all wrong, and in fact he’s been “missing a lot” of late, working hard to cancel all our proverbial direct debits and standing orders to the EU parliament - then I await to be corrected with interest…
I don’t think we can stop any of our responsibilities under the EU treaties until article 50’s conditions have first all been discharged.That would obviously include our net contribution figure.
My problem is with the agenda behind so called ‘Brexit’.In which we’ve got the documented Thatcherite Farage playing the reformed Conservative and now supposedly working class hero.On a bs agenda of returning sovereignty and powers to the National parliament.Which conveniently just happens to be the same old choice between Europhile Federalist Socialists or cheap labour Europhile Federalist Thatcherite Conservatives.
When all Farage would have been expected to do.Was hold onto UKIP’s position in the PR elected European parliament and go for a Confederal Europe which gave the MEP’s all the powers of democratic sovereignty he was supposedly calling for.
you have lost me with your farage ranting ? i dont understand your points your making at all
just what do you expect the guy to do ?
he got the vote by standing up to all sorts over the years and i wouldn’t mind betting by now there must be death threats aimed at him, given what happend to the labour mp last month i am sure there must be some loony wanting to be the person that got farage
so i had a feeling if the vote went to the out that farage would be out of the job and have nothing left to do, however i do expect him to show up again in time when all this dust settles and a picture is starting to take shape
for example should there be any sort of watering down of the free movement of people you can bet he will start making noises again, but up to now there is nothing much happening as other things have to be done first like getting a new pm
then a team to tell the eu what we will and will not accept i hoped farage might be part of such a team but they all hate him in the political class you only had to see the reaction carswell got when he stood up in parliament to see the sort of thing farage has had all along this road from them lot in westminister
farage is like the malcom x or martin luther he had started a movement for his own people and i dont blame him one bit for getting his head down and getting out as now we all know what happened to martin luther etc
some of the remainers are more racist than a bnp memeber when it comes to turning on the natives of this land and they can and do get away with it
i can only thank farage for his courage to stand up and for getting this vote out there to the people anything else is a bonus
he had his moment when he told them jumped up Herberts, he told them 20 years ago he would lead a movement to get out of the eu and they all laughed at him, well there not laughing now are they he said. pure class
i still have to pinch myself to even belief its real and we are out of the eu and we are going to close the doors
the little people have had there say thanks to that mans hard work
what more do you want from him ?
desypete:
you have lost me with your farage ranting ? i dont understand your points your making at all
just what do you expect the guy to do ?
I’ll be damned if I can figure him out either. CF you expect a guy who has campaigned for a referendum on leaving the EU for over 20 years, at the eleventh hour to instruct all Brexiteers to vote to stay in. How to destroy a guys credibility in one fell swoop.
And Farage should have done this because of his pay grade?!
Yet you bang on about Davis and Hoey not being coronated as PM overnight even though they don’t want the job of party leader never mind PM.
It’s as though you can’t comprehend that different people may have different views on how this could play out, and when, eventually, reality doesn’t concur with your preconceived ideas you about face and race headlong in a completely different direction, unable to comprehend why everyone doesn’t follow you.
desypete:
Carryfast:
My problem is with the agenda behind so called ‘Brexit’.In which we’ve got the documented Thatcherite Farage playing the reformed Conservative and now supposedly working class hero.On a bs agenda of returning sovereignty and powers to the National parliament.Which conveniently just happens to be the same old choice between Europhile Federalist Socialists or cheap labour Europhile Federalist Thatcherite Conservatives.When all Farage would have been expected to do.Was hold onto UKIP’s position in the PR elected European parliament and go for a Confederal Europe which gave the MEP’s all the powers of democratic sovereignty he was supposedly calling for.
you have lost me with your farage ranting ? i dont understand your points your making at all
just what do you expect the guy to do ?he got the vote by standing up to all sorts over the years and i wouldn’t mind betting by now there must be death threats aimed at him, given what happend to the labour mp last month i am sure there must be some loony wanting to be the person that got farage
so i had a feeling if the vote went to the out that farage would be out of the job and have nothing left to do, however i do expect him to show up again in time when all this dust settles and a picture is starting to take shape
for example should there be any sort of watering down of the free movement of people you can bet he will start making noises again, but up to now there is nothing much happening as other things have to be done first like getting a new pm
then a team to tell the eu what we will and will not accept i hoped farage might be part of such a team but they all hate him in the political class you only had to see the reaction carswell got when he stood up in parliament to see the sort of thing farage has had all along this road from them lot in westministerfarage is like the malcom x or martin luther he had started a movement for his own people and i dont blame him one bit for getting his head down and getting out as now we all know what happened to martin luther etc
some of the remainers are more racist than a bnp memeber when it comes to turning on the natives of this land and they can and do get away with it
i can only thank farage for his courage to stand up and for getting this vote out there to the people anything else is a bonus
he had his moment when he told them jumped up Herberts, he told them 20 years ago he would lead a movement to get out of the eu and they all laughed at him, well there not laughing now are they he said. pure class
i still have to pinch myself to even belief its real and we are out of the eu and we are going to close the doors
the little people have had there say thanks to that mans hard work
what more do you want from him ?
Sorry desy but as I’ve said I think events will show that he’s conned his electorate including myself.On the basis that it was always going to be a tall order to expect anyone to go from committed Thatcherite to working class saviour and hero.
As for the question what ‘would I expect’ of him at this point.A statement that he’d like to see Cameron do the decent thing in invoking article 50 with immediate effect and all prospective Conservative PM’s rule out an EEA membership deal.Together with a request for the involvement of Kate Hoey and John Boyd at least at the highest levels of our Brexit negotiations.In addition to a stated preference for at least stated leavers like Liam Fox or David Davis to be nominated for the Conservative leadership.
Instead of which he’s walked away having put the initiative firmly in the hands of a repeat Europhile Federalist Thatcherite Conservative administration and all that implies.
While leaving the question.Why the big deal about returning powers to a known majority Federalist Europhile National parliament based on a dodgy electoral system.When we’ve got/had all the ingredients needed in the form of a PR elected,but reformed,European parliament,based on Confederal Nation State supremacy principles ?.
Oh wait UKIP isn’t a Nationalist Party.
Stanley Knife:
desypete:
you have lost me with your farage ranting ? i dont understand your points your making at all
just what do you expect the guy to do ?I’ll be damned if I can figure him out either. CF you expect a guy who has campaigned for a referendum on leaving the EU for over 20 years, at the eleventh hour to instruct all Brexiteers to vote to stay in. How to destroy a guys credibility in one fell swoop.
And Farage should have done this because of his pay grade?!
Yet you bang on about Davis and Hoey not being coronated as PM overnight even though they don’t want the job of party leader never mind PM.
It’s as though you can’t comprehend that different people may have different views on how this could play out, and when, eventually, reality doesn’t concur with your preconceived ideas you about face and race headlong in a completely different direction, unable to comprehend why everyone doesn’t follow you.
I wouldn’t call going for a Confederal Europe,in an alliance with Nationalist groups like the AfD and FN and Austrian freedom,as opposed to Loathsome or May taking over from Cameron,in an obvious repeat performance of Thatcherite Britain,an ‘about face’.
Let alone the question as to ‘why’ ‘that’ option was never even on the table within UKIP.
As I said . . .
Stanley Knife:
As I said . . .
Are you saying that where we are now,with the initiative in the hands of documented remainers like May or Leadsom,article 50 yet to be invoked who knows when,and neither prospective PM having ruled out swapping EU for EEA member state,is what was sold by Farage to the UKIP vote ?.In addition to the fact that ‘returning powers’ to the National parliament just contradicts UKIP’s policy by putting us back where we’ve always been with a Europhile Federalist National parliamentary majority.
Or that situation is supposedly better.Than going for a Confederal European parliament which gives supremacy to the MEP’s over the commissioners and National right of opt out,substitution and VETO within that parliament.
Isn’t this entire referendum issue - now about “I was alright jack” over “I was never alright jack”?
People won’t risk upheaval when they’re living it large, or even content.
When life has been going downhill for a while though, living standards decreasing, workload increasing, enjoyable parts of life now cut off entirely (Eg. Foreign travel) - then THOSE people will be the ones who’ve “had enough” and must make up the vast bulk of the 52%…
Those of the 48% though - were blissfully unaware that it was never just the “obvious malcontents” in society that were going to be voting for “upheaval and change” - it was essentially all those other folk of even your own peer group - whom you’ve overtaken, not because you’ve made good choices in your life or they’ve made bad ones - but because other faceless people in another country have made those choices for us all - leaving some worse off (brexiteers) and some no worse off, or better off (remainers)
I think the entire population needs some serious lessons in “human nature”.
Winseer:
Isn’t this entire referendum issue - now about “I was alright jack” over “I was never alright jack”?People won’t risk upheaval when they’re living it large, or even content.
When life has been going downhill for a while though, living standards decreasing, workload increasing, enjoyable parts of life now cut off entirely (Eg. Foreign travel) - then THOSE people will be the ones who’ve “had enough” and must make up the vast bulk of the 52%…Those of the 48% though - were blissfully unaware that it was never just the “obvious malcontents” in society that were going to be voting for “upheaval and change” - it was essentially all those other folk of even your own peer group - whom you’ve overtaken, not because you’ve made good choices in your life or they’ve made bad ones - but because other faceless people in another country have made those choices for us all - leaving some worse off (brexiteers) and some no worse off, or better off (remainers)
I think the entire population needs some serious lessons in “human nature”.
That would be a naive over simplistic view of the reasoning.In that it overlooks the large ideological component in the choice.In which as you’ve seen even within the ‘Labour’ vote we’ve got remainers voting on the basis of being ideologically opposed to the idea of the Nation State with Brexiteers voting on the basis of vice versa.
There’s also the opposing issues of protectionist economics v free markets.In which EU membership isn’t going to allow the former and which explains the position of people like Benn,Shore and now Hoey ( and myself and Le Pen ).
While the Socialists are allied to the Europhile Federalist free marketeers like Ken Clarke on the basis that it plays into the hands of their pro immigration wealth redistribution cause.
Added to which we’ve then got the free marketeers who see an advantage in combining Brexit with furthering the aims of race to the bottom free market economics.Which is my guess as to where we are now with a Thatcherite agenda going for EEA membership.The big question being Farage’s real position regards that agenda.IE was his stated protectionist position,at least regarding cheap EU immigrant labour,just a bs Trojan Horse as part of that May/Leadsom, probably EEA membership,agenda ?. 
The key to understanding all this is that there are three distinct different ideologies at work here.In the form of.
Race to the bottom free markets Federalist ( with a big or small F regards Federalist ) Conservatives.
Protectionist/Nationalist.
Or Federalist/Socialist ( very large F regards Federalist in that case ).
There was always going to be more chance of us sorting out getting the second of those within a Confederal Europe with the initiative given to people like Le Pen.Rather than within the National parliament with the initiative given to May or Leadsom.
No wonder Poland wants to be in the EU , look at the graph half way down this link to see who makes a profit from the EU, answer is all of the eastern European countries , Poland in particular ! telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop … udget.html
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Carryfast:
Are you saying that where we are now,with the initiative in the hands of documented remainers like May or Leadsom,article 50 yet to be invoked who knows when,and neither prospective PM having ruled out swapping EU for EEA member state,is what was sold by Farage to the UKIP vote ?.In addition to the fact that ‘returning powers’ to the National parliament just contradicts UKIP’s policy by putting us back where we’ve always been with a Europhile Federalist National parliamentary majority.Or that situation is supposedly better.Than going for a Confederal European parliament which gives supremacy to the MEP’s over the commissioners and National right of opt out,substitution and VETO within that parliament.
All the way through this thread you have been passionate for OUT, OUT, OUT, and yet now you want IN, IN, IN!! Did you not think of the situation we find ourselves in prior to the result? Because it seems you expect everyone else to have thought of it, and want to blame Farage and co for not thinking of it, whilst absolving yourself of any blame whatsoever.
Every one of us Brexiteers would like the situation to be different - a committed euroskeptic PM and government with a committed euroskeptic negotiating committee pushing forward the plans we have fought for for years - but the situation is what it is; we have a Conservative party in power, with a PM who, having resigned, is nothing but a lame duck. We have a leadership contest which has to go through the due process, a LEAVE movement under Johnson and Gove which didn’t have a plan ready for the day after, even though Farage and co did, and a new PM who will want to instill her people to negotiate the deal over exit. Therefore we must have someone who will, at least, put forward our wants and needs, if not fight tooth and nail for them. Much better Leadsom than the Establishments own Theresa May who will give the EU negotiators everything they wish.
If it wasn’t for Farage we wouldn’t have had a bloody referendum, and even then Cameron only gave in because he needed to pacify the threat UKIP posed to the result of the GE. Brown and Blair before him had done a merry dance desperate not to offer a referendum, the Labour party being the party of democracy that it is . Major before them should have ordered a referendum, as the Maastricht Treaty changed the relationship between the member states from within the EC to the new EU. So be grateful for small mercies; at least we have had a referendum and we have voted out 
. Now it’s more important that we get the deal we want, not the deal that the Remainers want.
Stanley Knife:
Carryfast:
Are you saying that where we are now,with the initiative in the hands of documented remainers like May or Leadsom,article 50 yet to be invoked who knows when,and neither prospective PM having ruled out swapping EU for EEA member state,is what was sold by Farage to the UKIP vote ?.In addition to the fact that ‘returning powers’ to the National parliament just contradicts UKIP’s policy by putting us back where we’ve always been with a Europhile Federalist National parliamentary majority.Or that situation is supposedly better.Than going for a Confederal European parliament which gives supremacy to the MEP’s over the commissioners and National right of opt out,substitution and VETO within that parliament.
All the way through this thread you have been passionate for OUT, OUT, OUT, and yet now you want IN, IN, IN!!
Every one of us Brexiteers would like the situation to be different - a committed euroskeptic PM and government with a committed euroskeptic negotiating committee pushing forward the plans we have fought for for years - but the situation is what it is; we have a Conservative party in power, with a PM who, having resigned, is nothing but a lame duck. We have a leadership contest which has to go through the due process, a LEAVE movement under Johnson and Gove which didn’t have a plan ready for the day after, even though Farage and co did, and a new PM who will want to instill her people to negotiate the deal over exit. Therefore we must have someone who will, at least, put forward our wants and needs, if not fight tooth and nail for them. Much better Leadsom than the Establishments own Theresa May who will give the EU negotiators everything they wish.
If it wasn’t for Farage we wouldn’t have had a bloody referendum, and even then Cameron only gave in because he needed to pacify the threat UKIP posed to the result of the GE. Brown and Blair before him had done a merry dance desperate not to offer a referendum, the Labour party being the party of democracy that it is
Firstly putting any faith at all in anyone who is on record as stating that ‘leaving’ would be a ‘disaster’ is naive in the extreme.In which case there’s no reason to think that Leadsom is any more genuine in her supposed jump towards ‘Euroscepticism’ than May or ironically for that matter Thatcher was.Farage being on record as being an admirer of Thatcher.
As for the issue of Farage I’ve long held the view of a Confederal Europe as a preferable plan A with Brexit actually being plan B.Having then taken the line that we were actually in that plan B situation more or less on trust of Farage.
However my first doubts and reservations in that regard actually came when he clearly distanced UKIP from Le Pen’s FN against her calls for co operation.At which point the idea of joining her in going for a Confederal Europe would/should have been plain to anyone with any common sense.Having still naively chosen to give him the benefit of the doubt at that point.
Bearing in mind his silence since,in the face of the ‘caving in’ of the Conservative ‘Eurosceptics’ and the side lining of Kate Hoey among the rest of the GO movement and Cameron’s refusal to invoke article 50 and now the agenda of two remainers as new PM and their refusal to rule out swapping EU for EEA membership.Let alone adding to that silence by just then just walking away.There has to be a point where the doubts are confirmed.
All the signs being that Brexit has been compromised probably beyond the point of being saved.Because people who should know better can’t get their heads around the fact that it can’t be done without a committed Nationalist economic protectionist agenda behind it.On that note I’ll be very surprised if we aren’t in the middle of a Thatcherite Conservative agenda which just makes us an EEA member state.Assuming that Ken Clarke can’t get enough support to reverse the vote.
Which is why I’m suggesting that the best option now is to pre empt that move by going for a remain agenda in the form of the reformed Confederal Europe which UKIP would/should have been expected to put forward at the start.At least before bothering with the idea of trying to return sovereignty to a National Parliament,that’s hell bent on giving that sovereignty away to people like Merkel and Juncker.As part of it’s race to the bottom free markets agenda either by reversing the vote as Ken Clarke wants.Or going for EEA membership which is probably what May or Leadsom have in mind.
Carryfast:
Firstly putting any faith at all in anyone who is on record as stating that ‘leaving’ would be a ‘disaster’ is naive in the extreme.
You do patronising so well.
I put my faith in very few people, and none of them are politicians!
Am I a cynical old git? ■■■■ right I am!! Cynicism is just another word for experience.