Carryfast:
In an ideal world we’d all be friends and could share evereything and everywhere on earth would be like Switzerland.
:
Ah. Newsflash. CF reveals his true belief in a bs socialist utopia world without borders.
No.CF ‘did’ believe that as a young and naive CF.But then changed outlook to believing that it ain’t and never will be a utopian world.In which then Nationalism and the Nation State is the correct ethos.It’s called growing up and maturity it’s just that some Socialists stay naive immature zb wit idealists for life.
Winseer:
It would be a terrible travesty if the Remainers got to hijack Brexit, and then kick it into the long grass, making sure it never happens.
Have you been living in a bunker without access to news reports since the referendum.Here’s a clue Farage has gone having handed the initiative to people like May and Loathsome and Clarke and Farron not David Davis and Kate Hoey.
The fact is we’ve traded UKIP and the possibility of an alliance in the EU parliament with Nationalist groups,for a bunch of Federalist Europhile zb’s at home who at best will just swap EU for EEA thereby actually strengthening the Federalists hand.
So how can a group of Tory remainer’s realistically be trusted to get us out of the EU not EEA Out, ? If they aren’t capable they should call a GE, the fact that we have the situation we do is alarming , It could be all an elaborate way of scamming us right from the start this cluster ■■■■ was planned too
We the people should get a say in who is the next PM
tommy t:
So how can a group of Tory remainer’s realistically be trusted to get us out of the EU not EEA Out, ? If they aren’t capable they should call a GE, the fact that we have the situation we do is alarming , It could be all an elaborate way of scamming us right from the start this cluster [zb] was planned too
Going back to the question why was Farage so keen on distancing UKIP from the FN ?.
Maybe an insurance policy in that the Europhile Cons,of which Farage was one under Thatcher,were trying to cover themselves against any potential Nationalist backlash in Europe by removing us from it rather than letting us join it.
Winseer:
…Unless Gove has been May’s stooge all along… Word is that Theresa May is “lending voters” to Gove to make sure he comes second in the ballot to decide the last two.
You sir may be closer than you think! If Gove was the arch Brexit strategist that he’s made out to be he would, by now, have jacked it in and backed Leadsom, thereby securing a place in her cabinet and lead negotiator at the Brexit table. But he’s carrying on to get a job he doesn’t want, against a woman (May) he knows he won’t beat. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was hatched before the referendum result by all concerned to make sure Remain had control of the negotiations.
The reaction of Liam Fox, in supporting May after his defeat, suggests this conspiracy goes a little deeper. It will be interesting to see how many votes Leadsom (66) and Gove (48) get this afternoon as both Fox and Crabbe have supported May so the numbers should be very similar. But the Tories do underhand conniving and deceit so much better than any other party the result could be anything.
It would be a terrible travesty if the Remainers got to hijack Brexit, and then kick it into the long grass, making sure it never happens. The lack of actually “admitting” that is what they wish to do - will also keep “uncertainty” going forever, so we end up getting all the downsides of Brexit - with none of the upsides. Even if Remain got all their own way - anything going wrong would continue to be blamed upon Brexit, and not the upheaval caused by the hijacking process. May would be safely in power until 2020, and then as unremovable as Thatcher.
OR there are enough MPs who can see this coming - and torpedo any support they had for Gove this afternoon, so May’s “loaned votes” don’t get him past Leadsom’s poll. Fingers crossed then!
Stanley Knife:
OR there are enough MPs who can see this coming - and torpedo any support they had for Gove this afternoon, so May’s “loaned votes” don’t get him past Leadsom’s poll. Fingers crossed then!
Why is Loathsome considered the better option regarding the Leave side than Fox ( or preferably Davis who for ‘some’ reason didn’t even get on the list ) let alone May.Fox and Davis being the only Leavers among that group.
Carryfast:
Where and how do you reach the conclusion that Loathsome is a Leaver not a remainer.
Leadsom 2013:
“I don’t think the UK should leave the EU. “I think it would be a disaster for our economy. And it would lead to a decade of economic and political uncertainty.”
From the Andrew Marr Show last Sunday:
"When I came into Parliament, like most people in the country, I’d grown up as part of the EU and it’s absolutely part of our DNA. I always made clear that the UK could not stay in the EU without fundamental reform. The status quo was never an option”.
She has said that she would trigger Article 50 as soon as she won the Tory leadership in September.
And then there’s the Fresh Start Project she co-founded. Google it, you’re good at that!
Carryfast:
The real question in all this being how could Farage have possibly not foreseen all this and instructed UKIP voters to vote remain.
Maybe he doesn’t have the foresight you have - or should that be hindsight.
Carryfast:
Why is Loathsome considered the better option regarding the Leave side than Fox ( or preferably Davis who for ‘some’ reason didn’t even get on the list ) let alone May.Fox and Davis being the only Leavers among that group.
This is the Conservative Party leadership, in which any Conservative MP can put their name forward onto the list and take part in the contest. Maybe he didn’t put his name forward because he knew he couldn’t get the backing to progress in the race. Or maybe he preferred to back someone with true Brexit credentials like Liam Fox? (Who then supported May when he was knocked out).
No David Davis chose to back Theresa May from the off!
Winseer:
OR there are enough MPs who can see this coming - and torpedo any support they had for Gove this afternoon, so May’s “loaned votes” don’t get him past Leadsom’s poll. Fingers crossed then!
At least there will now be a contest. Theresa May has to be the favourite but the Tories do have a habit of choosing the outsider. Look forward to plenty of dirt being slung at each other.
May has hired a leading Remain campaigner to work on her leadership bid, Alison Griffiths, who will be May’s Director of Operations. She was Chief Operating Officer for Conservatives In.
Carryfast:
Where and how do you reach the conclusion that Loathsome is a Leaver not a remainer.
Leadsom 2013:
“I don’t think the UK should leave the EU. “I think it would be a disaster for our economy. And it would lead to a decade of economic and political uncertainty.”
From the Andrew Marr Show last Sunday:
"When I came into Parliament, like most people in the country, I’d grown up as part of the EU and it’s absolutely part of our DNA. I always made clear that the UK could not stay in the EU without fundamental reform. The status quo was never an option”.
She has said that she would trigger Article 50 as soon as she won the Tory leadership in September.
And then there’s the Fresh Start Project she co-founded. Google it, you’re good at that!
Carryfast:
The real question in all this being how could Farage have possibly not foreseen all this and instructed UKIP voters to vote remain.
Maybe he doesn’t have the foresight you have - or should that be hindsight.
The inconsistency between the statements leaving would be a disaster to cannot stay in the EU can only possibly mean that one is a lie and my money is on the latter.Just like Cameron’s Turkey won’t be allowed in etc etc.
So she triggers article 50 and we swap EU for EEA.If not she could obviously have made a statement that EEA is off the table at the same time as article 50 will be triggered.
As for Farage.No foresight in swapping a UKIP prescence in Europe,elected on the advantageous PR electoral system, ( under his watch and pay grade ) for,what should have been,the foreseeable fact that the Conservative Eurosceptics were just a joke.In addition to him being on record as having clearly distanced UKIP from any co operation with European Nationalist groups like the FN.Which I’d questioned at the time.
When it’s obvious that at his pay grade he should have been expected to steer well clear of returning powers to the Europhile domestic parliament and,it’s obviously by the time of the referendum,bs so called ‘Eurosceptic’ faction,and build bridges with the FN and AfD and Austrian Freedom etc etc instead.To create a Confederal European Parliament with supremacy over the commissioners and the right of National opt out,substitution and VETO.Thereby wrong footing the Federalist agenda right across Europe including here.On that note I’m guessing that isn’t exactly what Loathsome has in mind regarding ‘reform’.
Winseer:
OR there are enough MPs who can see this coming - and torpedo any support they had for Gove this afternoon, so May’s “loaned votes” don’t get him past Leadsom’s poll. Fingers crossed then!
At least there will now be a contest. Theresa May has to be the favourite but the Tories do have a habit of choosing the outsider. Look forward to plenty of dirt being slung at each other.
May has hired a leading Remain campaigner to work on her leadership bid, Alison Griffiths, who will be May’s Director of Operations. She was Chief Operating Officer for Conservatives In.
May using a remain campaigner has to be a err bit dumb, i knew she was dumb and devious, but … Hope her plan backfires spectacularly and she and her paid media puppets as well , favourite my arse,
I would prefer a non tory and non remainer to oversea brexit and the trade deals
Stanley Knife:
This is the Conservative Party leadership, in which any Conservative MP can put their name forward onto the list and take part in the contest.
No David Davis chose to back Theresa May from the off!
That’s ‘interesting’.Which just adds to the question why didn’t Farage realise the wavering going on within and unreliability of the Conservative ‘Eurosceptic’ ranks.Before the referendum and then realise that the Federalist v anti Federalist argument in Europe wasn’t going to ever get settled within the UK parliament.
Now is the time for all politicians to stop being weak, always on the backfoot defending perceived lies that are in fact “speculations about the future that might never happen”.
When you put a quid on a horse - you tend to be chuffed when you win £50 - but no one ever thinks of backing the 50-1 shot to GET that payoff.
If you back evens - you get £2. I don’t personally consider “double or nothing” a very good deal worth risking the status quo for.
I’ve not believed that from the very beginning.
What I DO believe in though - is getting that meaty 50-1 return on something that has now a 50% chance of actually happening, providing the pitfalls can be avoided on the way.
Scrapping our loss-making trade routes with the EU, and replacing them with further-afield routes, allowing us to re-source most things we were previously getting from the EU… Egyptian Strawberries, Brazillian Bananas, South African Apples, etc. There are multiple sources for most “quality produce” albeit no so “branded manufactured goods”. So… Do we believe that there is no viable replacement for a BMW or Merc?
The moment you find you can “do without something” - is the first time ever you really have any real control and mastery over it.
We can pick and choose which bits of the EU we want. It’s for them to offer us concessions now. Ponce us about - and we’ll just re-source it elsewhere. Ponce us about, and we’ll sell our own goods and services elsewhere as well. Germany pushed through the purchase of the London Stock Exchange… Who’s going to dismantle THAT brick by brick and cart it to Frankfurt?
“Vision” then. “A plan with the rest of the world” then.
I’d rather Leadsom be at the helm instead of a half-hearted remainer, half-hearted leader of the opposition…
Where did Kate stand on the no confidence vote btw? Is she one of the 172?
We have not heard much from other Labour Brexiteers of late either.
Winseer:
Now is the time for all politicians to stop being weak, always on the backfoot defending perceived lies that are in fact “speculations about the future that might never happen”.
When you put a quid on a horse - you tend to be chuffed when you win £50 - but no one ever thinks of backing the 50-1 shot to GET that payoff.
If you back evens - you get £2. I don’t personally consider “double or nothing” a very good deal worth risking the status quo for.
I’ve not believed that from the very beginning.
What I DO believe in though - is getting that meaty 50-1 return on something that has now a 50% chance of actually happening, providing the pitfalls can be avoided on the way.
Scrapping our loss-making trade routes with the EU, and replacing them with further-afield routes, allowing us to re-source most things we were previously getting from the EU… Egyptian Strawberries, Brazillian Bananas, South African Apples, etc. There are multiple sources for most “quality produce” albeit no so “branded manufactured goods”. So… Do we believe that there is no viable replacement for a BMW or Merc?
The moment you find you can “do without something” - is the first time ever you really have any real control and mastery over it.
We can pick and choose which bits of the EU we want. It’s for them to offer us concessions now. Ponce us about - and we’ll just re-source it elsewhere. Ponce us about, and we’ll sell our own goods and services elsewhere as well. Germany pushed through the purchase of the London Stock Exchange… Who’s going to dismantle THAT brick by brick and cart it to Frankfurt?
“Vision” then. “A plan with the rest of the world” then.
I’d rather Leadsom be at the helm instead of a half-hearted remainer, half-hearted leader of the opposition…
Where did Kate stand on the no confidence vote btw? Is she one of the 172?
We have not heard much from other Labour Brexiteers of late either.
I think that the majority of people in the country wouldn’t want May as PM, Problem is will democracy prevail?
With the bbc reporting it who is to say it’s true? It’s possible that they made the letter or had it made , set fire to their house for insurance payout , wouldn’t be the first to do something like that , with a added race hate card
Maybe they ■■■■■■ someone off ? why they all seem to be reporting hate crimes since the referendum, if they are happening as often then i find it very hard to accept the same amount of these crimes wasn’t happening before it, just that the pro EU media didn’t bother to report it back then
With the bbc reporting it who is to say it’s true? It’s possible that they made the letter or had it made , set fire to their house for insurance payout , wouldn’t be the first to do something like that , with a added race hate card
Maybe they ■■■■■■ someone off ? why they all seem to be reporting hate crimes since the referendum, if they are happening as often then i find it very hard to accept the same amount of these crimes wasn’t happening before it, just that the pro EU media didn’t bother to report it back then
Winseer:
Now is the time for all politicians to stop being weak, always on the backfoot defending perceived lies that are in fact “speculations about the future that might never happen”.
When you put a quid on a horse - you tend to be chuffed when you win £50 - but no one ever thinks of backing the 50-1 shot to GET that payoff.
If you back evens - you get £2. I don’t personally consider “double or nothing” a very good deal worth risking the status quo for.
I’ve not believed that from the very beginning.
What I DO believe in though - is getting that meaty 50-1 return on something that has now a 50% chance of actually happening, providing the pitfalls can be avoided on the way.
Scrapping our loss-making trade routes with the EU, and replacing them with further-afield routes, allowing us to re-source most things we were previously getting from the EU… Egyptian Strawberries, Brazillian Bananas, South African Apples, etc. There are multiple sources for most “quality produce” albeit no so “branded manufactured goods”. So… Do we believe that there is no viable replacement for a BMW or Merc?
The moment you find you can “do without something” - is the first time ever you really have any real control and mastery over it.
We can pick and choose which bits of the EU we want. It’s for them to offer us concessions now. Ponce us about - and we’ll just re-source it elsewhere. Ponce us about, and we’ll sell our own goods and services elsewhere as well. Germany pushed through the purchase of the London Stock Exchange… Who’s going to dismantle THAT brick by brick and cart it to Frankfurt?
“Vision” then. “A plan with the rest of the world” then.
I’d rather Leadsom be at the helm instead of a half-hearted remainer, half-hearted leader of the opposition…
Where did Kate stand on the no confidence vote btw? Is she one of the 172?
We have not heard much from other Labour Brexiteers of late either.
I think Loathsome is more a remainer than a leaver just like May and just like Thatcher before them.Which explains why no statement that EEA is off the table.
While it’s obvious that the Labour Eurosceptics have been gagged and crushed by Corbyn’s red army.
