In or Out- the EU referendum mega thread

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1561

Evil8Beezle:

The-Snowman:
Call me a miserable old cynic but I cant help but feel these big companies have no plans to move but are instead just trying to frighten people so that if/when it is announced that Britain will not now be leaving the EU, the masses dont revolt and riot because it’ll be “Oh thank god. Businesses were going to be pulling out. It would have been a disaster”. The government have told them this is the way to get enough people to want to reverse their vote to make us stay. Either that or they are trying to force the Governments hand to give them big tax breaks to “sweeten” them into staying. Either way, it smells a bit fishy to me.
Lets not be naive here, mega companies like BP, Aviva, M&G etc control the government and not the other way around so to say they are pulling out so soon after the vote when article 50 isnt even invoked yet is, to me, some sort of cynical move that is playing on peoples fears right now and they are using it for their own means to get what they want

No mate, you’re a miserable cynic, I’m an older miserable cynic and agree! :laughing:

No, re read the article. It is not saying big businesses are pulling out.

“The rush by private investors to withdraw funds…”

So many people are trying to sell investments in UK property that the property funds don’t actually have the liquidity to be able to hand over the cash. Like a run on the banks. So they have frozen them. That is, ceased trading them and told the people who want to sell that they can’t.

"…halted withdrawals because they don’t have enough cash to immediately repay investors. "

First Brexiters dismiss predictions of economic turbulence as “project fear”, then when they start happening they say it is a plot to reverse the decision. ! Too late.

As was said before the vote, it is the working classes who will be paying the price.

As can be seen on here, so many people can’t see past the immigration issue that they’ll cut their own nose off to spite their face.

The vote was about economics. Business and trade. Not stopping muslims invading.

Harmonising laws across the countries might feel like a “diktat” and is easily portrayed as such by the Daily Mail, but it simplifies procedures so we can easily trade and generate wealth. Now we can “take back control” it is only going to complicate matters and make it harder for international commerce. How can that be a good thing?

Edit to add:
You mention tax breaks to keep business here. Yes, absolutely. They will be looking at slashing corporation tax as a sweetener, but not only that. Other things that will attract businesses here will be things like a reduction in worker’s rights. Expensive things that businesses are currently forced to do, like maternity/paternity pay holiday, sickness, unfair dismissal. All that kind of stuff. Tory gov will have a field day getting rid of all that. They can’t at the moment because the EU demands minimum standards across the board. You think any of that is going to be making the poor British worker better off? I don’t. Those are the EU diktats they are so keen to cast off.

1562

Looooo:
Harmonising laws across the countries might feel like a “diktat” and is easily portrayed as such by the Daily Mail, but it simplifies procedures so we can easily trade and generate wealth. Now we can “take back control” it is only going to complicate matters and make it harder for international commerce. How can that be a good thing?

Edit to add:
You mention tax breaks to keep business here. Yes, absolutely. They will be looking at slashing corporation tax as a sweetener, but not only that. Other things that will attract businesses here will be things like a reduction in worker’s rights. Expensive things that businesses are currently forced to do, like maternity/paternity pay holiday, sickness, unfair dismissal. All that kind of stuff. Tory gov will have a field day getting rid of all that. They can’t at the moment because the EU demands minimum standards across the board. You think any of that is going to be making the poor British worker better off? I don’t. Those are the EU diktats they are so keen to cast off.

What a load of ■■■■■■■■ We don’t want to be ruled by the dictatorship called the EU which part of that do people like you not understand? :unamused: :unamused: I have put it in big so you may understand it easier :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:
The country voted out because we are sick of bruxelles interfering in our affairs, now if those investors don’t like that maybe they should leave the uk as well

Ohh and you wrong about Employment law , we already had a lot of of our own employment laws before we went into the common market in 1972, more scare mongering left wing ■■■■■■■■

1563

tommy t:
The country voted out because we are sick of bruxelles interfering in our affairs, now if those investors don’t like that maybe they should leave the uk as well

Yeah, see they aren’t necessarily IN the UK in the first place. They are international investors. But don’t worry, they are leaving in droves because they believe the value of UK Plc is heading South.

You think tories have worker’s rights at the top of their list?

1564

robroy:

alicks77:
I’ve never heard anyone call for sharia law in this country except the usual zealots and they are a tiny tiny minority.

Are they Muslim community like 3% of the british population and most British Muslims when asked don’t want sharia law so I don’t know who you’ve heard asked about it. The only people that are obsessed with it are the right wingers, who say if people don’t obey our laws they should be killed. Which is essentially sharia law.

Are you for real mate or what?? :open_mouth:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

These things have a habit of creeping up on you… And then they are right on top of you!

3%? - My arse!

1565

Looooo:

tommy t:
The country voted out because we are sick of bruxelles interfering in our affairs, now if those investors don’t like that maybe they should leave the uk as well

Yeah, see they aren’t necessarily IN the UK in the first place. They are international investors. But don’t worry, they are leaving in droves because they believe the value of UK Plc is heading South.

You think tories have worker’s rights at the top of their list?

The pound dropped, and now foreign investors in particular are trying to get their money out of property-related investments… Which they can then re-patriate to whereever at a crappy lower sterling exchange rate.

ONCE all the silly money has departed - the pound can go back to where it started, and local british firms can buy up the fire-sold properties - providing they are residential, they continue to have intrinsic value. The commercial properties though?

Do we really give a ■■■■ if some foreign oligarch loses a few billion? :smiling_imp:

1566

tommy t:
We don’t want to be ruled by the dictatorship called the EU[/size]

I hear that loud and clear, but we are all going to have to live with the consequences of that.

Including the 48% who wanted to remain.

You can’t complain if people point them out and you can’t pretend they are not happening. You definitely can’t pretend they are made up to make the Brexiters look foolish.

1567

Winseer:
Do we really give a ■■■■ if some foreign oligarch loses a few billion? :smiling_imp:

You reckon anyone’s pension funds are invested in Uk commercial property?

1568

Stanley Knife:
Theresa May wins the first round with 50% of the vote and is therefore guaranteed a place in the final two to be voted on by the membership. The interesting part is next. May would rather have Gove on the ticket and attack him as a backstabbing, untrustworthy leaper. The last thing she wants is Leadsom. My money is, literally, on Gove to pull out and his votes to go to Leadsom leaving an all female ticket for the members. Then do I leave my money on a Leadsom win or lay off? Hmmm!

…Unless Gove has been May’s stooge all along… Word is that Theresa May is “lending voters” to Gove to make sure he comes second in the ballot to decide the last two. This fits with what you’re saying above.

The real reason May wants shot of Leadsom though - is she is a REAL Brexiteer convert, unlike Gove who is just hanging around the way the wind is blowing - and blowing up whomever is standing next to him. At the moment, the next person in line to be blown up is - Andrea Leadsom!

Leadsom has a lot of trade negotiating experience, has worked in banking, rather than married to a banker, and has kids. All in all much more wholesome than “tired, and backed the wrong horse May”.

The Tory party grass roots will be heavily backing Leadsom - IF the vote gets down to them. - Which, of course - is why it must NOT “get down to them” as far as May is concerned. :exclamation: :wink:

…And you all thought Gove was the one with the biggest knife… :open_mouth:

1569

Looooo:

Winseer:
Do we really give a ■■■■ if some foreign oligarch loses a few billion? :smiling_imp:

You reckon anyone’s pension funds are invested in Uk commercial property?

I wouldn’t put it past the pension fund manager clowns - to own every duff investment going right now… :frowning:

…Along with J Savile’s chain of childrens, old peoples, and recuperating patient homes.
…Or Iraqi Dinar
…Or any bets on Cameron to win or lose the next general election
…or mining rights to digging out the large number of double decker london buses buried at the south pole.

1570

[emoji3]

Hey I have an Iraqi 20Dinar note with Saddam on it. Maybe now is the time to sell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1571

Winseer:

robroy:

alicks77:
I’ve never heard anyone call for sharia law in this country except the usual zealots and they are a tiny tiny minority.

Are they Muslim community like 3% of the british population and most British Muslims when asked don’t want sharia law so I don’t know who you’ve heard asked about it. The only people that are obsessed with it are the right wingers, who say if people don’t obey our laws they should be killed. Which is essentially sharia law.

Are you for real mate or what?? :open_mouth:

[emoji38] [emoji38] :laughing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXG4pdPj4w

These things have a habit of creeping up on you… And then they are right on top of you!

3%? - My arse!

Sorry you are right. According to Google the 2011 census a massive 4.5% of the british population are Muslim. They really are taking over.

1572

alicks77:
Sorry you are right. According to Google the 2011 census a massive 4.5% of the british population are Muslim. They really are taking over.

No need to let facts get in the way of a good story.

I heard they cancelled Christmas so as not to offend 'em. I mean they wouldn’t just make something like that up would they? What purpose would that serve?

1573

Irvine Welsh wrote a good balanced piece today, closest thing I have seen to my own opinions yet
theguardian.com/commentisfr … ine-change

I’ve always supported EU but even I admit it has become corrupt and broken in its current form, however I fear it will be a hollow victory unless we wake up to the fact that this country was run into the ground by the loony right for 30 years, thatcher Blair Cameron - all the same

1574

Europe is a distraction there was never anything to stop us running our country and economy like the French, except that we didn’t want to

1575

Carryfast:
Blimey more Socialist bs disinformation and diversion.Brexiteers are all supposed fat cats and it’s all a simplistic so called left v so called right issue.

  1. How do you explain both Kate Hoey and Farage standing on the same protectionist ticket regards stopping over supply of the labour market with immigrant labour.Unlike you.

As I’ve said, left-wingers are also critical of the EU. But even if Hoey (a virtual unknown) and Farage (the spectacular figurehead of the movement) can agree on one thing, it doesn’t mean they agree on anything else.

Also, I haven’t said I’m in favour of over-supply of immigrant labour, in fact you know ■■■■ well that is false because I’ve addressed you on it in previous posts. What I have said is that if the market were regulated, and if immigrants were prevented from undercutting the existing rates and conditions of jobs, then there would be more high-quality jobs for settled workers, and more willing workers amongst the settled - and without being able to undercut on any of the main aspects of pay and conditions of work, unskilled immigrants would not usually be able to compete with settled workers.

Btw when my posts are substantial and you are only addressing it generally and not point-by-point, you needn’t quote the whole of it at the top of your reply (including my quotes of the post I was replying to) - just quote my name and the first sentence of my reply.

  1. Exactly when did the Labour Party or Europhile Unions ever call for a European wide minimum wage.

I’d find it remarkable if neither had said anything recently about regulating the wage market. There effectively already is a Europe-wide minimum wage, in the sense that the minimum pay whilst on holiday is the same as the person’s normal pay at work. I know that’s not quite what you mean, but it falls into a category of rules that uphold workers’ minimum rights and apply uniformly across Europe.

  1. Define left.

The only definition I’ll attempt is “socialist”. I’m not using it in any more specific, precise way than that.

  1. You’ve stated elsewhere that you view Communist China as corrupt.Yet it supports the same EU agenda that you’re supporting.

I use China only because the Tory right always use China as an example of a nation we have to compete with by lowering our standards. And it is probably true that, by contrast, the Chinese see corruption as a grave problem and look up to European nations who don’t suffer from it.

  1. How does the indigenous workforce benefit from over supply of the labour market with free movement of immigrant labour from lower wage EU states bearing in mind 3 and 1.

My view on it is that the benefits of immigration accrue predominantly as a kind of public benefit (such as exposing people to other cultures and eroding nationalist mentalities), whereas the costs of immigration in the free market falls on the heads of settled workers. That is a problem I would readily address by restricting the free market - I’m in favour of free movement of people, but not in favour of free movement of wages downwards.

Many immigrant workers are good, but no better than a motivated settled worker, and that is the fundamental problem with the current free market, that it is allowing immigrants to compete with settled workers by forcing wages below the level that will motivate settled workers (because those wages don’t allow you to live British life properly) but which still motivate immigrant workers (who at first arrival are not trying to live a British life, and certainly aren’t trying to raise children whilst ten people hot-bed in a two-room house).

  1. Exactly what ‘Left Wing Measures’ are you referring to.Bearing in mind that protectionism,which is what’s needed,has never been part of any Europhile Labour Party policy as opposed to that of Eurosceptic Shore.To the point where the Labour Party effectively sank its own Nationalisation programme to save uk industry,such as Coal and Automotive,by leaving the door open to not only EU imports but also non EU ones.

I don’t claim the Labour party’s policies for my own. Wage councils are a form of “protectionism” (in that it excludes low-pay, low-quality workers from the market), and that is really the essence of my proposal. It’s not even a new or untested idea - they were abolished by the Thatcher and Major governments, not because they didn’t work, but because they were a form of “big state, big regulation” measure which gets in the way of bosses making bonanza profits by exploiting low-paid workers!

That is all that is happening with immigrants - bosses who run food factories with immigrant labour are making bonanza profits whilst they have put out of business the steady, well-unionised, relatively well-paid food factories of yore which employed settled workers.

As for so called fat cats as you’ve stated yourself they are another just as bad bunch of zb wits who are all about short term profit at the expense of Fordist principles.

I actually specifically mentioned Henry Ford and his principles positively in my earlier post. I expected you to notice, but maybe not.

1576

Looooo:

alicks77:
Sorry you are right. According to Google the 2011 census a massive 4.5% of the british population are Muslim. They really are taking over.

No need to let facts get in the way of a good story.

I heard they cancelled Christmas so as not to offend 'em. I mean they wouldn’t just make something like that up would they? What purpose would that serve?

To be fair, there are a lot of things that you cant do now for fear of upsetting Muslims.
Whether it is as bad as some would have you believe is highly doubtful and a lot of the time the Muslims themselves are not offended or even care, it is just some ■■■ in an office somewhere thinking stuff up.
But it is a dangerous road to go down to stop things happening just to please one group of people.
There was an application for a butchers shop turned down in the Gorbals area of Glasgow last year because a lot of muslims from the govan hill area passed by on their way to the mosque. Whether it was Muslims objecting or someone thinking “Oh we better not in case it offends” I dont know but as I say, its a dangerous road to venture down.

1577

Looooo:

tommy t:
The country voted out because we are sick of bruxelles interfering in our affairs, now if those investors don’t like that maybe they should leave the uk as well

Yeah, see they aren’t necessarily IN the UK in the first place. They are international investors. But don’t worry, they are leaving in droves because they believe the value of UK Plc is heading South.

You think tories have worker’s rights at the top of their list?

like i said in the news yesterday is a car plant is opening up with 400 jobs and a further expansion planed to there factory for even more jobs.

it seems like someone has invested in our country and our workforce. which doesn’t really tie in with your constant doom and gloom bollox
we are going to be a great country again given time and of course with the doors closed to free movement of people that will benefit all the workers of this country something to really look forward for a change
we can set our own rules and kick out all the rubbish stuff the eu has imposed on us which will save business costs a huge amount i wouldnt mind betting a lot of busineess in the eu will be thinking about coming here to set up so as to avoid the eu costs and rules

but lets not forget how much money the money men can now make for world trade not just the eu. now there looking at huge sums that will make the eu seem like a 10 quid bet

you remind me of one of the those people who parade up and down the street with a placard attached to them saying the end of the world is nigh.

oh i did mention we are ending the free movement of people in this country ? i am sure you will in time come to see the huge benefits that it will bring to our work places and to our towns that were slowly being eaten away

1578

chrisdalott:
Irvine Welsh wrote a good balanced piece today, closest thing I have seen to my own opinions yet
theguardian.com/commentisfr … ine-change

I’ve always supported EU but even I admit it has become corrupt and broken in its current form, however I fear it will be a hollow victory unless we wake up to the fact that this country was run into the ground by the loony right for 30 years, thatcher Blair Cameron - all the same

I’m quite sure some are only too well aware of what the mess we have had for government since and including thatcher ,up to today we need a real labour party not a new ( AKA tory lite ) one that fights for the working classes and doesn’t prioritise immigrants be they illegal or otherwise so that excludes the likes of corbyn,( which is what has been happening for too long) and unshackled from the EU the buck will stop with our politicians, they won’t be able to blame the eu

1579

desypete:

Looooo:

tommy t:
The country voted out because we are sick of bruxelles interfering in our affairs, now if those investors don’t like that maybe they should leave the uk as well

Yeah, see they aren’t necessarily IN the UK in the first place. They are international investors. But don’t worry, they are leaving in droves because they believe the value of UK Plc is heading South.

You think tories have worker’s rights at the top of their list?

like i said in the news yesterday is a car plant is opening up with 400 jobs and a further expansion planed to there factory for even more jobs.

it seems like someone has invested in our country and our workforce. which doesn’t really tie in with your constant doom and gloom bollox
we are going to be a great country again given time and of course with the doors closed to free movement of people that will benefit all the workers of this country something to really look forward for a change
we can set our own rules and kick out all the rubbish stuff the eu has imposed on us which will save business costs a huge amount i wouldnt mind betting a lot of busineess in the eu will be thinking about coming here to set up so as to avoid the eu costs and rules

but lets not forget how much money the money men can now make for world trade not just the eu. now there looking at huge sums that will make the eu seem like a 10 quid bet

you remind me of one of the those people who parade up and down the street with a placard attached to them saying the end of the world is nigh.

oh i did mention we are ending the free movement of people in this country ? i am sure you will in time come to see the huge benefits that it will bring to our work places and to our towns that were slowly being eaten away

Yep bin the no smoking in pubs ,or in vehicles , what the prices of beer fall , have the choice of proper light bulbs instead of those crap fluorescent type , return beaches back to being usable again instead of being nature reserves for birds and natter jack toads that no one apart from the tree hugger’s are interested in government are going to be busy repealing all the crap

1580

The-Snowman:

Looooo:

alicks77:
Sorry you are right. According to Google the 2011 census a massive 4.5% of the british population are Muslim. They really are taking over.

No need to let facts get in the way of a good story.

I heard they cancelled Christmas so as not to offend 'em. I mean they wouldn’t just make something like that up would they? What purpose would that serve?

To be fair, there are a lot of things that you cant do now for fear of upsetting Muslims.
Whether it is as bad as some would have you believe is highly doubtful and a lot of the time the Muslims themselves are not offended or even care, it is just some ■■■ in an office somewhere thinking stuff up.
But it is a dangerous road to go down to stop things happening just to please one group of people.
There was an application for a butchers shop turned down in the Gorbals area of Glasgow last year because a lot of muslims from the govan hill area passed by on their way to the mosque. Whether it was Muslims objecting or someone thinking “Oh we better not in case it offends” I dont know but as I say, its a dangerous road to venture down.

It doesn’t take much to set off these tolerant and peace loving people :laughing: :laughing: a cartoon ffs