I don’t think this is going to happen, I think we’ve all been mugged yet again,and what is this 2nd referendum thing all about??
OVLOV JAY:
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
+1 Spot on. A good poker player never shows his hand, or you come away with less than you could have won
It isn’t poker at all it’s a case of we’re out of here ASAP.IE they know our hand from when the Leave vote was counted.The only reason that anyone would want to delay that process starting would be if there was an agenda to reverse it.
The referendum is the first turn of the card. I would put negotiations with Brussels on the back burner. I’d like to see deals with China and the commonwealth in place before the Eu. Let the German car industry force them to play our game. The current administration have no desire to enter talks on any deals, so why start the clock, and basically wipe 3 months off the timetable? We’ve been in over 40 years. Another 6 months won’t hurt, will it. Patience Carryfast, the last thing we want, is to take a deal that puts us on the back foot, meaning some of the country will be clambering to get back in the union, in 5 years, but having to accept much worse terms
What difference does delaying the the fact of our secession make to the deals we get involved with as a non EU member.IE everyone knows we’re out from the time we voted Leave.So why then do we want to delay leaving.In what way does remaining a member of the EU,by delaying the leaving process,change anything.Other than strengthen the hand of those who want to halt and reverse the leaving process. 
Realistically we either get back in EFTA and cut the import bill whether it’s China or the EU,or we go under whether we leave or we stay.IE the EU is no good to us forget it for us that option is over anyway regardless.As for another government wanting to take us back into it that’s more likely to be a case of ideological reasons not economic anyway.Just as in 1973.
The idea of keeping on looking backwards now,because the EU is supposedly safe is just bs.It’s already costing us money and it’s a political nightmare that’s why we’ve voted to leave it.So get on with it before the remainers stop us going for good.
We’re a Democracy…the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU… Never been on a rally…but I’m so passionate about us leaving that I will take to the streets and do what I have to to ensure those in power get the message… there’s not enough prison spaces to accommodate,the backlash that will incur… should anybody try to overturn a democratic vote…
Rog270:
We’re a Democracy…the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU… Never been on a rally…but I’m so passionate about us leaving that I will take to the streets and do what I have to to ensure those in power get the message… there’s not enough prison spaces to accommodate,the backlash that will incur… should anybody try to overturn a democratic vote…
I hope you’re right but they don’t seem to be in a hurry do they?I do not trust any of them.
there could be trouble…ahead 
carryfast-yeti:
there could be trouble…ahead
yes,big trouble
Rog270:
We’re a Democracy…the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU… Never been on a rally…but I’m so passionate about us leaving that I will take to the streets and do what I have to to ensure those in power get the message… there’s not enough prison spaces to accommodate,the backlash that will incur… should anybody try to overturn a democratic vote…
they won’t openly over turn it, they will twist, cajole and dilute it until it is so similar to what it was that the referendum may as well of never happened. I predict a general election before the end of the summer and before clause 50 is delivered, one or both parties will run on a mandate of over-turning the result and staying within the EU. Thus we will never leave and arguably democracy will have been delivered.
Bluey Circles:
Rog270:
We’re a Democracy…the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU… Never been on a rally…but I’m so passionate about us leaving that I will take to the streets and do what I have to to ensure those in power get the message… there’s not enough prison spaces to accommodate,the backlash that will incur… should anybody try to overturn a democratic vote…they won’t openly over turn it, they will twist, cajole and dilute it until it is so similar to what it was that the referendum may as well of never happened. I predict a general election before the end of the summer and before clause 50 is delivered, one or both parties will run on a mandate of over-turning the result and staying within the EU. Thus we will never leave and arguably democracy will have been delivered.
That’s what I was getting at.
bobbya:
I don’t think this is going to happen…
+1
Carryfast:
My point is we haven’t triggered it which means that we ain’t going anywhere yet.While yes clever people like Ken Clarke and Corbyn and Sturgeon and the LibDems are just waiting to take advantage of that fact.Because so long as we remain in it and haven’t formally handed in our notice then remain MP’s are still in with a chance of keeping us in it.On that note as I said what the zb has Canada got to do with us seceding from the EU.
Are you saying that you haven’t researched this subject much and are just winging it like the rest of us and are basing your posts on predefined political stereotypes to put people in whichever box you feel fits.
Further research would reveal that the key points at play are how if and when we fit back into the single market and money market passport system. Thus by comparing already negotiated models allowing countries to trade with Europe be it Norway, Canada etc we can see how the UK may develop it’s own model for inclusion.
Our bargaining strength will of course be dependant on not only our new interpretation of free movement and how we implement it but also what we bring to the table in the first place.
Like all negotiations there will need to be comprimises but in the end when each side feel they have a bad deal but CBA to moan about it anymore negotiations will be complete.
The political party du jour will be mindful that the judgement of whether they have done a good job or not will be deceided by the electorate at election time.
As far as feeling this could all be reversed well that’s very unlikely as even after less than a week things are starting to settle down a bit, plus everybody loves some drama.
The test will come if and when we start to feel it in our pockets.
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
+1 Spot on. A good poker player never shows his hand, or you come away with less than you could have won
It isn’t poker at all it’s a case of we’re out of here ASAP.IE they know our hand from when the Leave vote was counted.The only reason that anyone would want to delay that process starting would be if there was an agenda to reverse it.
The referendum is the first turn of the card. I would put negotiations with Brussels on the back burner. I’d like to see deals with China and the commonwealth in place before the Eu. Let the German car industry force them to play our game. The current administration have no desire to enter talks on any deals, so why start the clock, and basically wipe 3 months off the timetable? We’ve been in over 40 years. Another 6 months won’t hurt, will it. Patience Carryfast, the last thing we want, is to take a deal that puts us on the back foot, meaning some of the country will be clambering to get back in the union, in 5 years, but having to accept much worse terms
What difference does delaying the the fact of our secession make to the deals we get involved with as a non EU member.IE everyone knows we’re out from the time we voted Leave.So why then do we want to delay leaving.In what way does remaining a member of the EU,by delaying the leaving process,change anything.Other than strengthen the hand of those who want to halt and reverse the leaving process.
Realistically we either get back in EFTA and cut the import bill whether it’s China or the EU,or we go under whether we leave or we stay.IE the EU is no good to us forget it for us that option is over anyway regardless.As for another government wanting to take us back into it that’s more likely to be a case of ideological reasons not economic anyway.Just as in 1973.
The idea of keeping on looking backwards now,because the EU is supposedly safe is just bs.It’s already costing us money and it’s a political nightmare that’s why we’ve voted to leave it.So get on with it before the remainers stop us going for good.
They will be trying to hold off for as long as possible. Starting the countdown will be better for them. The fact they have spent the past 5 days putting pressure on us to pull the trigger, shows the panic and fact they’re on the back foot. You can see the trade surplus/deficit argument, why can’t you see the article 50 argument? They’re different horses from the same stable
While the sources for this are a bit flaky (The Mail, Express & Sun), the EU is apparently now thinking of a Superstate of it’s now 27 members. Whether it’s April fools day somewhere and I don’t know! 
this just seems crazy considering the current situation.
I do hope it’s true, but can’t believe it…
google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid … superstate
That’s going to be one hell of a clustercrap! 
Where would that leave Switzerland? 
Jay, He hasn’t answered your question yet, nor been on for about 2 hours.
Reckon he’s gone to bed…don’ t wake him fFs.
Congratulations from Finland ! I hope we and some other countries will follow as soon as possible.
Someone was talking how Germans wouldn’t dare because of their car industry, others like Carryfast said you cant do trade war with us.
Well put your money where your mouth is Davve, sign the document and deposit it in EU, instead Cameron resign in order to prolong the exit, creating uncertainty in UK and EU. 
Good luck with trade negotiations CF, you gonna need it…
Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has dismissed Boris Johnson’s proposal that Britain might enjoy access to the European single market and restrict immigration at the same time, telling German MPs the UK would enjoy no special favours.
In a speech to the Bundestag, Merkel said negotiations over Britain’s post-EU future would not be a “cherry-picking exercise”. To applause, she warned that the UK government should be under no illusions over the decisions that would be made.
“We will make sure that negotiations will not be carried out as a cherry-picking exercise. There must be and there will be a palpable difference between those countries who want to be members of the European family and those who don’t,” she said.
Merkel said the UK could enjoy access to the single market only if it accepted the “four basic European freedoms – that of people, goods, services and capital”.
The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, urged the UK to clarify its position on Brexit.
The leaders of Germany, France and Italy have ruled out any chance of informal negotiations on the UK’s future relationship with the bloc until it gives formal notification of its intention to leave, with a consensus emerging that this should happen in the autumn.
Other politicians have insisted that Britain would receive a worse deal outside the EU. The Dutch finance minister, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the chair of the eurozone finance ministers’ council, said Farage was “living in his own world” if he thought the UK would now get an improved trade agreement.
Dijsselbloem added: “He [Farage] thinks Britain is still a world-spanning empire and can dictate everything, and it’s not going to happen like that.”
OVLOV JAY:
Carryfast:
The idea of keeping on looking backwards now,because the EU is supposedly safe is just bs.It’s already costing us money and it’s a political nightmare that’s why we’ve voted to leave it.So get on with it before the remainers stop us going for good.They will be trying to hold off for as long as possible. Starting the countdown will be better for them. The fact they have spent the past 5 days putting pressure on us to pull the trigger, shows the panic and fact they’re on the back foot. You can see the trade surplus/deficit argument, why can’t you see the article 50 argument? They’re different horses from the same stable
The trade deficit issue is clearly something that we can rely on in our favour.But what possible ‘different horse’ makes delaying our exit beneficial to us.The only thing it does is to strengthen the hand of the remain MP’s to halt the process and reverse the vote.
Dolph:
Someone was talking how Germans wouldn’t dare because of their car industry, others like Carryfast said you cant do trade war with us.
Well put your money where your mouth is Davve, sign the document and deposit it in EU, instead Cameron resign in order to prolong the exit, creating uncertainty in UK and EU.
Good luck with trade negotiations CF, you gonna need it…Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has dismissed Boris Johnson’s proposal that Britain might enjoy access to the European single market and restrict immigration at the same time, telling German MPs the UK would enjoy no special favours.
In a speech to the Bundestag, Merkel said negotiations over Britain’s post-EU future would not be a “cherry-picking exercise”. To applause, she warned that the UK government should be under no illusions over the decisions that would be made.
“We will make sure that negotiations will not be carried out as a cherry-picking exercise. There must be and there will be a palpable difference between those countries who want to be members of the European family and those who don’t,” she said.
Merkel said the UK could enjoy access to the single market only if it accepted the “four basic European freedoms – that of people, goods, services and capital”.
The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, urged the UK to clarify its position on Brexit.
The leaders of Germany, France and Italy have ruled out any chance of informal negotiations on the UK’s future relationship with the bloc until it gives formal notification of its intention to leave, with a consensus emerging that this should happen in the autumn.
Other politicians have insisted that Britain would receive a worse deal outside the EU. The Dutch finance minister, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the chair of the eurozone finance ministers’ council, said Farage was “living in his own world” if he thought the UK would now get an improved trade agreement.
Dijsselbloem added: “He [Farage] thinks Britain is still a world-spanning empire and can dictate everything, and it’s not going to happen like that.”
Fatima merkel isn’t in charge of the corrupt EU who does she think she is?, And with any luck she won’t have long left as Germany’s leader,come election time,And she and the single market aren’t needed by the uk , and we should not be held to ransom by the EU
Dolph - I’m not reading anything into any of that pal, as it’s posturing. It’s what everyone does when entering into a battle…
They all have to talk tough, as they need to reassure their member states and their electorate, just as our PM’s would, if we had any!
The only thing that is certain at the current time, is that they really, really, REALLY want us to get on with it! 
It’s almost like they don’t like the uncertainty, perhaps they are scared further cracks in the EU crap pile will start to show■■?
V8Lenny:
Congratulations from Finland ! I hope we and some other countries will follow as soon as possible.
And we welcome you with open arms, just as long as you don’t migrate over here!
Dolph:
Someone was talking how Germans wouldn’t dare because of their car industry, others like Carryfast said you cant do trade war with us.
Well put your money where your mouth is Davve, sign the document and deposit it in EU, instead Cameron resign in order to prolong the exit, creating uncertainty in UK and EU.
Good luck with trade negotiations CF, you gonna need it…Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has dismissed Boris Johnson’s proposal that Britain might enjoy access to the European single market and restrict immigration at the same time, telling German MPs the UK would enjoy no special favours.
In a speech to the Bundestag, Merkel said negotiations over Britain’s post-EU future would not be a “cherry-picking exercise”. To applause, she warned that the UK government should be under no illusions over the decisions that would be made.
“We will make sure that negotiations will not be carried out as a cherry-picking exercise. There must be and there will be a palpable difference between those countries who want to be members of the European family and those who don’t,” she said.
Merkel said the UK could enjoy access to the single market only if it accepted the “four basic European freedoms – that of people, goods, services and capital”.
The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, urged the UK to clarify its position on Brexit.
The leaders of Germany, France and Italy have ruled out any chance of informal negotiations on the UK’s future relationship with the bloc until it gives formal notification of its intention to leave, with a consensus emerging that this should happen in the autumn.
Other politicians have insisted that Britain would receive a worse deal outside the EU. The Dutch finance minister, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the chair of the eurozone finance ministers’ council, said Farage was “living in his own world” if he thought the UK would now get an improved trade agreement.
Dijsselbloem added: “He [Farage] thinks Britain is still a world-spanning empire and can dictate everything, and it’s not going to happen like that.”
You’re pushing at an open door Dolph.Which part of you’ve won anyway didn’t you understand.Cameron isn’t going to take on Merkel because he’s a Europhile Federalist POS just like her.No one is going to take on Cameron or Merkel because the country has lost its bottle on one side regards throwing the zb out and taking control of the process ( that’s even if Gove or BoJo even had any bottle or let alone possibly even on the Leave side to start with ) and the equally Federalist/Socialist zb’s as he is,if not moreso,on the other side ( Corbyn,Farron,Sturgeon ).
Shame for your lot that they didn’t have these type of zb’s in office here 1939.Because then your lot and your Kraut mates would have been marching down the mall before we’d even bothered with trying to save France let alone Poland in 1940.
So there we have it Britain defeated by a Polish born commy Kraut and Bulgaria.It took a while but you got there in the end.But only with a lot of help from our own side and a country that’s probably more communist now than Italy and Yugoslavia were combined in 1945. How long before we see a German led East Euro manned EU federal army stationed here to stop any possible remaining Nationalist secessionist tendency.
Having said that maybe Trump will hopefully get in and the yanks will save us from the Krauts and their axis ally’s plan yet again.