Gotta love Nigel for going in all guns blazing, bet he had that speech prepared for months.
The bloke behind him to the right facepalming was also amusing, started with a nose tweak then full facepalm state by the end.
I just can’t understand why the Tories haven’t invited Farage & co into their preparations for exit. Experience of how the EU works internally, brash enough to fight against the establishment, forcing Cameron into a position whereby he felt he had to offer a referendum he didn’t want to, kicking the Establishment’s arse, causing mayhem in both Conservative and Labour party’s . . .
Hmm, right, er probably just answered my own question there. 
My idea of ‘real’ Labour
So not real Labour then just your view of it.
Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk
I’m sorry I can’t post very often, because of long hours at work and a family to look after, but I follow this thread with interest as many other do as well.
Here is a interesting interview, only 48 sec long:
Kelvin MacKenzie: “I would vote Remain now”
Kelvin MacKenzie has been a long standing critic of the European Union and last week listed reasons why British voters should chose to quit the EU. And the former editor of The Sun newspaper voted Leave in the referendum. But now he is regretting his decision - as he told Newsday.
Release date: 28 June 2016
Carryfast:
You want the country to remain independent and sovereign over its own destiny not a state of a USE. ?.
In which case how can you possibly have the contradictory idea that you also don’t know if you want it to be a state of a Federal European system or not.
As for believing in the idea that no one has the right to vote the country out of ( independent ) existence.See 1.
Bearing in mind the alternative of condemning future generations to a war of secession regards 1 and 2 why wouldn’t you prefer to apply the double standard of 3 to avoid it.
What the ■■■■ are you blabbering on about?
1- Isnt that what we voted on?
2 - What part of “I dont know enough about it to comment one way or the other” is it that confuses you. Can we be neither? Do we need to join something else to make trade deals? I dont know and frankly, I dont care. I voted to control our own laws and set our own terms witht he rest of the world and not have some eastern country block it because it doesnt help them. If we have to be in something rather than do it ourselves, pick one for me that suits the above reasons. You seem to be the expert on what everyone else thinks anyway
4 - Because 3 is something you made up. No one has the right to vote a country out of existance but thats never ever going to be a vote that takes place. That you see this vote that way is YOUR belief but thats not what it was. The vote was to remain as a member of the EU or not. You’re twisting your arrogant belief that only you have the right views and opinions with regards to what a remain vote would bring into something else. That me calling you a hypocrite is wrong because it was the “right” result in your eyes therefor no one should be disputing the outcome like you would if it was a remain result and somehow means id happily sign the country out of existance. Its only got to that because you keep twisting everything and are incapable of entertaining the fact that there is a chance you might be wrong. I admire your unbridled belief in yourself that you are 100% correct but unfortunatly, I dont share your 100% faith in the result as yet. Or your way of thinking that its ok to say one thing is ok to do only as long as it goes the “right” way ie your way.
You twist absolutely everything to mean something else and are incapable of answering what anyone asks you.
You’d make a pretty good politician yourself
Incidently, you never DID show me where I said I was a euro lover.
Or why my ideas and beliefs start wars
Instead you made up other stuff and skirted past it
Funny that. Almost like changing the subject is second nature to you
The-Snowman:
desypete:
dont qoute me on it and i dont want posts flying up from 10 years hence, but i am sure from your posting you was calling people like me who voted out as racist just because i want to put my own people first ? i dont see that as racist but nationalism and i would expect the french or other nations who would follow the uks lead to do and feel the same way as me if indeed they vote out or get a chance to
the eu is crap, and the free movement of people is totaly wrong and again i stress that is not racist its just common sense, if more and more come here there is less and less for our own kids or grand kids
it might be a very selfish view i have but i see it as nationalist without all the bnp rubbish that brands being a nationalist as NazisThing is desy, its not your actual opinion that is the problem, its the way you talk about it. This post here is (vaguely) sensible but some of your other ones which have phrases like “spot the white face” and “kick the buggers out” are what get you branded and what the left wingers pick up on. Those kind of phrases do more harm than good and are used to tar anyone who dares to speak out against mass migration as one in the same.
Theres nothnig wrong with wanting to put your own people from your own country first. Selfish? Maybe but that makes me selfish too as I think the same. Like you, I also want a points system and a “prove you are of worth the country before you come here” way rather than a “come here and we will pay you benefits and home you” way of operating. I also dont agree with £27 billion of foreign aid to some far flung third world country when I am getting told austerity in the UK is the only way forward.
We think the same but you just take it too far in the things you say and thats why you personally get branded as racist but evilbeezle doesn’t. Unfair? Maybe. But its the way things are unfortunately. Correct me if im wrong, but you’ve never said immigration doesnt bother you, just stop them all coming here.Even you’re way of talking about the points system is almost like you resent that as well. I know it ■■■■■■ you off, it does to me as well, but if you tone down your wordings, the word racist wont get banded about so much and we might start getting somewhere
some of the things i say are wind up stuff more so if i can see others seem to come from the side of the political correct lobby
the kick the buggers out stuff is what they expect so me being me i am happy to wind them up
but in all honesty diane abbout and people like her in the labour party and people of the same ilk in other partys have really gone over board with trying to protect migrants they have created a them and us without i dare say seeing what there doing as they believe there helping but its got to a point were its has got ugly between people
not the peoples fault but for years and years now its slowly started to become a nation split
the vote has proved how divided we really are and also how the citys that have huge numbers of migrants almost wiped out the vote from the rest of the country
i want the same as you we can help those who are in real need, we can have skills we need welcome here like the aussies system they have high migrantion but its people and skills they want and need rather than an overflowing system we have were anyone can come and add to the overcrowding etc
i am sure that is all that most of the voters who voted to leave wish for when it comes to controling our boarders but the other partys are also to blame trying to make it out as some sort of racist sin to vote out as you would be proving that the country is a racist one
how many times have you heard people saying there ashamed by the result of what this country has become or branded it a hate vote all based on there own views that to close the doors is a racist act
which of course its not its just common bloody sense in my book
anon84679660:
I’m sorry I can’t post very often, because of long hours at work and a family to look after, but I follow this thread with interest as many other do as well.Here is a interesting interview, only 48 sec long:
Kelvin MacKenzie: “I would vote Remain now”
Kelvin MacKenzie has been a long standing critic of the European Union and last week listed reasons why British voters should chose to quit the EU. And the former editor of The Sun newspaper voted Leave in the referendum. But now he is regretting his decision - as he told Newsday.Release date: 28 June 2016
His actual words were “I might well have voted remain” so almost reported correctly.
I’m sure you will have a different spin on it, but to me he sounds like some rich guy who’s heart is telling him out, but currently his balance sheet is telling him in!
Pete, when you say control our boarders do you mean borders or is it a Freudian slip…[emoji6]
Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk
Munchkin:
[quote uid=106839 name=“Munchkin” ]
Carryfast, in post 966 you refer to yourself as a “real Labour supporter” yet seem to forget that the Labour party pre Blair was founded by Keir Hardie who was a socialist! Much revered and one of the best political thinkers and operators this country has seen.
OK New Labour are as socialist as a champagne breakfast but the real party wanted a better life for all. Compare our wages and working conditions to those Hardie had as a miner and it’s night and day. If the mine and iron masters of those times had their way we’d still be virtual slaves worn out with work by our 40’s. What we have now was won through the efforts of generations of SOCIALISTS, fair minded people who wanted a decent life.
I’m sick of your generalising that anything moderately left, or socialist in general parlance, is in some way communist. The obsessive hatred and the vitriol you spit toward any ideology not absolutely aligned with your own spoil what could otherwise be the occasional fair point. Mr Hardie must be turning in his grave at the at your idea of “real Labour”.
My idea of ‘real’ Labour
So not real Labour then just your view of it.
Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk
[/quote]
as an ex labour voter for a hell of a long time i can tell you this much this political correct labour party are nothing like the labour party of many moons ago
they will have lost even more voters now after they took there stand on the eu vote and turned it into a racist vote
i will not be told by some jumped up political correct loony from the labour party, that to vote out is to be joining a racist organization and i will not be told that the party like ukip or Nigel farage are evil
that is there way to try to hide away from what the people in this country really feel and want, they can not blame ukip or farage for how people voted, instead they have to look at themselves and at how they have let the people down over all the years driving this eu and migration nonsense down every buggers throat till its boils over
the one thing i do honestly hope happens now is the end and death of political correctness. labour would do well to gain nigel farage as a leader as most of the country love his no nonsense talking its like a breath of fresh air compared to the normal cloak and dagger debates between labour v cons or how can they best interpret figures to ther own ends which mean bugger all to someone who can not afford a meal for the night.
nigel farage is what old labour used to be about and it used to be about making a better life for the workers of this country
now its more focused on making a better life for our friends from over seas and forget about our own people as they have no voice in the matter
well our own people found a voice and boy have they all had a wake up call
labour is nothing like it was its just a party full of loonys who dont have a clue what is going on outside of the citys and i dont really think they cared either, so long as they control the city’s with the mayors or open up more chambers for there familys to have jobs in trying to run local areas like the Kinnocks have done i dare say the blairs kids will end up in nice labour controlled jobs somewhere or other telling the rest of us how to put up with the scraps
labour are finished unless they change and not just put a new leader in get rid of all the political correct lot and be seen loud and clear to put the british people first. but there two far gone stuck in there dream world to change i think the best thing would be for the party to split one for the British and one for the happy europeans
OVLOV JAY:
+1 Spot on. A good poker player never shows his hand, or you come away with less than you could have won
It isn’t poker at all it’s a case of we’re out of here ASAP.IE they know our hand from when the Leave vote was counted.The only reason that anyone would want to delay that process starting would be if there was an agenda to reverse it.
Dipper_Dave:
I trust you have followed my advice earlier in the thread and looked into article 50 and how not triggering it may lead to a treaty breach or two.Also consider how of all the options out there the Canadian one looks doable albeit with some tweaks.
Cleverer folks than us are looking into these models as we speak.
My point is we haven’t triggered it which means that we ain’t going anywhere yet.While yes clever people like Ken Clarke and Corbyn and Sturgeon and the LibDems are just waiting to take advantage of that fact.Because so long as we remain in it and haven’t formally handed in our notice then remain MP’s are still in with a chance of keeping us in it.
On that note as I said what the zb has Canada got to do with us seceding from the EU.
Carryfast:
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
Cut the bs.1 Do ‘you’ agree that the vote should stand or be reversed by the Europhile parliamentary majority.
2 Do ‘you’ believe that article 50 should have been invoked the morning after the result.If not why not.
3.Do ‘you’ believe that there is no reason for the effectively economic sanctions being imposed on us at this time by the bankers.
4 Do ‘you’ think we should be an independent Nation and rejoin EFTA not a member of the EU Federation.Or vice versa.
Bearing in mind this isn’t a case of either side ‘respecting’ the other’s position.It’s a simple clear choice between one or the other.
1 - It should stand
2 - Yes, it should have been. I thought it would have been
3 - I think there probably is a reason due to financial and economic uncertainty surrounding us at the moment. Rightly or wrongly however, I have no idea
4 - Dont know enough about the difference to have an opinion. I probably wont have a say in the matter so im not fussed one way or the other really. I just want the UK to be able to do deals with whomever it likes, whenever it likes and at what ever terms is best without being told what laws we can and cant impliment and be independent in its true sense. Whatever one that makes me, go with thatIts ALWAYS been about respecting other peoples position. You imply im some sort of euro lover simply because I state (correctly) its hypocritical of you to state its ok for you to moan if the vote goes one way but not for others if it goes your way and that everyone has a right to think leaving was a bad move, even if it turns out it was the right one. I voted leave because I think it was the best move but no matter how much you think it, YOU DONT KNOW for certain. No one does yet. That doesnt make me a eurolover, it makes me a realist. I hope it was the right move but only time will tell. Thats not an opinion. That’s fact
You want the country to remain independent and sovereign over its own destiny not a state of a USE. ?.
In which case how can you possibly have the contradictory idea that you also don’t know if you want it to be a state of a Federal European system or not.
As for believing in the idea that no one has the right to vote the country out of ( independent ) existence.See 1.
Bearing in mind the alternative of condemning future generations to a war of secession regards 1 and 2 why wouldn’t you prefer to apply the double standard of 3 to avoid it.
You shouldn’t start drinking this early.
desypete:
The-Snowman:
desypete:
dont qoute me on it and i dont want posts flying up from 10 years hence, but i am sure from your posting you was calling people like me who voted out as racist just because i want to put my own people first ? i dont see that as racist but nationalism and i would expect the french or other nations who would follow the uks lead to do and feel the same way as me if indeed they vote out or get a chance to
the eu is crap, and the free movement of people is totaly wrong and again i stress that is not racist its just common sense, if more and more come here there is less and less for our own kids or grand kids
it might be a very selfish view i have but i see it as nationalist without all the bnp rubbish that brands being a nationalist as NazisThing is desy, its not your actual opinion that is the problem, its the way you talk about it. This post here is (vaguely) sensible but some of your other ones which have phrases like “spot the white face” and “kick the buggers out” are what get you branded and what the left wingers pick up on. Those kind of phrases do more harm than good and are used to tar anyone who dares to speak out against mass migration as one in the same.
Theres nothnig wrong with wanting to put your own people from your own country first. Selfish? Maybe but that makes me selfish too as I think the same. Like you, I also want a points system and a “prove you are of worth the country before you come here” way rather than a “come here and we will pay you benefits and home you” way of operating. I also dont agree with £27 billion of foreign aid to some far flung third world country when I am getting told austerity in the UK is the only way forward.
We think the same but you just take it too far in the things you say and thats why you personally get branded as racist but evilbeezle doesn’t. Unfair? Maybe. But its the way things are unfortunately. Correct me if im wrong, but you’ve never said immigration doesnt bother you, just stop them all coming here.Even you’re way of talking about the points system is almost like you resent that as well. I know it ■■■■■■ you off, it does to me as well, but if you tone down your wordings, the word racist wont get banded about so much and we might start getting somewheresome of the things i say are wind up stuff more so if i can see others seem to come from the side of the political correct lobby
the kick the buggers out stuff is what they expect so me being me i am happy to wind them up
but in all honesty diane abbout and people like her in the labour party and people of the same ilk in other partys have really gone over board with trying to protect migrants they have created a them and us without i dare say seeing what there doing as they believe there helping but its got to a point were its has got ugly between people
not the peoples fault but for years and years now its slowly started to become a nation split
the vote has proved how divided we really are and also how the citys that have huge numbers of migrants almost wiped out the vote from the rest of the countryi want the same as you we can help those who are in real need, we can have skills we need welcome here like the aussies system they have high migrantion but its people and skills they want and need rather than an overflowing system we have were anyone can come and add to the overcrowding etc
i am sure that is all that most of the voters who voted to leave wish for when it comes to controling our boarders but the other partys are also to blame trying to make it out as some sort of racist sin to vote out as you would be proving that the country is a racist one
how many times have you heard people saying there ashamed by the result of what this country has become or branded it a hate vote all based on there own views that to close the doors is a racist act
which of course its not its just common bloody sense in my book
This and changes so hate preachers and criminals are easily and quickly deported , and illegals fake refugee’s /economic migrants from Calais are deported A.S.A.P back to France Not the shambles that we have today ,
And as for the need for legal migrants we need to reduce this were possible, for a start by making the NHS an organisation that newly trained DR’s nurses actually want to work in , so less hours and better conditions for a kick off,
New labour is a joke outfit with all those blair ites and champaign socialists like Diane abbot ,and Anna soubry to name only 2 of them, these people should do one of two things focus on helping those who originate from the uk and not pandering those from other countries, or leave government altogether
Latest Conservative leadership poll puts May and Johnson out front but, in regard to what I said earlier, a little flutter on Fox and Leadsom at this stage.
Theresa May: 29%
Boris Johnson: 28%
Andrea Leadsom: 13%
Liam Fox: 13%
Stephen Crabb: 9%
Looooo:
When having a mass debate it is always encouraging when others join in.They are currently saying they will refuse to start any negotiations until 50 is invoked for that exact reason. If only CF was on our crack team of negotiators we could be out by now, with nothing to show for it.
Article 50 is about the required notice document to start the process not the finish of it.So how would invoking it now supposedly put us out ‘now’.Not invoking it is just delaying the start point of the process.No surprise the remainers want that because it gives them more chance to halt the process before it starts and thereby over rule the vote.On that note yeah right invoke it now and watch the Bolsheviks kick off big time.Poker bs.
Stanley Knife:
Latest Conservative leadership poll puts May and Johnson out front but, in regard to what I said earlier, a little flutter on Fox and Leadsom at this stage.Theresa May: 29%
Boris Johnson: 28%
Andrea Leadsom: 13%
Liam Fox: 13%
Stephen Crabb: 9%
Realistically it needs to be David Davis and Liam Fox as second in command.With Kate Hoey taking over from Corbyn.That’s assuming that parliament hasn’t already over ruled the whole question by that point anyway.The rest on that list are more or less a waste of space.
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
+1 Spot on. A good poker player never shows his hand, or you come away with less than you could have won
It isn’t poker at all it’s a case of we’re out of here ASAP.IE they know our hand from when the Leave vote was counted.The only reason that anyone would want to delay that process starting would be if there was an agenda to reverse it.
The referendum is the first turn of the card. I would put negotiations with Brussels on the back burner. I’d like to see deals with China and the commonwealth in place before the Eu. Let the German car industry force them to play our game. The current administration have no desire to enter talks on any deals, so why start the clock, and basically wipe 3 months off the timetable? We’ve been in over 40 years. Another 6 months won’t hurt, will it. Patience Carryfast, the last thing we want, is to take a deal that puts us on the back foot, meaning some of the country will be clambering to get back in the union, in 5 years, but having to accept much worse terms
You delay it but you know it has to come out…that’s us and the EU…Back in 75 we signed up to a trade agreement…we got mugged…Merkel let’s in 1 million Syrians,who in time can move en block to Holland…or the UK if they wish…If the EU had kept the conditions to which we signed up to…then this situation would not be happening today…We will find our way,with or without the jock’s…and the cracks will appear in foundation’s of the EU…Give it 5 years…and it’s all down to them expense money grabbing MEPs in Strasbourg
OVLOV JAY:
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
+1 Spot on. A good poker player never shows his hand, or you come away with less than you could have won
It isn’t poker at all it’s a case of we’re out of here ASAP.IE they know our hand from when the Leave vote was counted.The only reason that anyone would want to delay that process starting would be if there was an agenda to reverse it.
The referendum is the first turn of the card. I would put negotiations with Brussels on the back burner. I’d like to see deals with China and the commonwealth in place before the Eu. Let the German car industry force them to play our game. The current administration have no desire to enter talks on any deals, so why start the clock, and basically wipe 3 months off the timetable? We’ve been in over 40 years. Another 6 months won’t hurt, will it. Patience Carryfast, the last thing we want, is to take a deal that puts us on the back foot, meaning some of the country will be clambering to get back in the union, in 5 years, but having to accept much worse terms
Agreed, our current situation gives us time to build relationships elsewhere and internal EU pressure to build! 
If we start the clock now, the EU will start writing the rules of how they can best make an example of us to others.
Let them stew a while…
I’ll go bat crap crazy if our politicians try to reverse the vote, and I HOPE they realise that to do so will signal the end of ANY democracy in this country to most people…
Munchkin:
[quote uid=106839 name=“Munchkin” ]
Carryfast, in post 966 you refer to yourself as a “real Labour supporter” yet seem to forget that the Labour party pre Blair was founded by Keir Hardie who was a socialist! Much revered and one of the best political thinkers and operators this country has seen.
OK New Labour are as socialist as a champagne breakfast but the real party wanted a better life for all. Compare our wages and working conditions to those Hardie had as a miner and it’s night and day. If the mine and iron masters of those times had their way we’d still be virtual slaves worn out with work by our 40’s. What we have now was won through the efforts of generations of SOCIALISTS, fair minded people who wanted a decent life.
I’m sick of your generalising that anything moderately left, or socialist in general parlance, is in some way communist. The obsessive hatred and the vitriol you spit toward any ideology not absolutely aligned with your own spoil what could otherwise be the occasional fair point. Mr Hardie must be turning in his grave at the at your idea of “real Labour”.
My idea of ‘real’ Labour
So not real Labour then just your view of it.
[/quote]
Yes just as your view of it is Socialist.As I said that worked well then.As for so called ‘moderately’ Socialist yeah right like wanting to be in a Federation founded in part by an Italian Communist.
The fact is there is no moderately Socialist.There is only Socialist which means ideologically opposed to the nation state or Nationalist which is ideologically opposed to Socialism for that reason.Which is why Shore and Heffer and even Benn were sidelined in favour of Callaghan and the rest is history because what they were proposing was ideologically Nationalist.Which they didn’t even realise themselves but Wilson obviously did among others.Not surprising with Wilson being on the Commy watch list.
With yet another zb wit Socialist running the Labour Party again now and his Bolshevik supporters trying to over turn a democratic vote because it goes against their Soviet Federalist ideology.Similar to the JNA Socialist scum who tried to stop the secession of Slovenia and Croatia together with the resulting casualties.Which is probably the inevitable similar fate of the EU.