Are 2.02 million EU nationals the “huge” problem in Britain ■■?
How convenient in the title, used Bulgarians and Romanians, instead of Italians, Spanish and Greeks.
Dolph:
boredwivdrivin:
this is why the EU (as opposed 2 a common market) has always been doomed .its comparing apples and oranges . if i go to some ex soviet car crash country i wont be able to claim dole , housing benefit , child benefit etc , and i certainly am unlikely to get a job .
so i am discriminated against by your government .
the EU is trying to impose equality by bringing us all down to romanias level
Your politicians knew this all along the EE acceptance into EU and did nothing to change UK benefit system. Its not EU fault for what is happening in UK its your politicians fault for not preventing it, all of the rest of EU did it
no one is going to defend british politics ! but i cant believe its not EU fault . it is precisely EU fault for being a meglomanic federal fruitcake . the EU as a whole pushed this mad expansion . they should have created EU2 for all the backward countries to cooperate thru , which could have had free trade with rump EU . but NOT free movement .
In 21 century I can come to UK and get benefits and free NHS service, this is idiotic, you will bankrupt sooner or later…
ive got members of my family who have paid in from day 1 . why should they have to go without just to appease a bunch of wall jumpers
No you are not going to be discriminated, because the same law applies for native people as well, I’ll not receive benefits if I had not contributed first, the same is valid for you. Why don’t you ask Brits living here in BG, the rules are for everybody so no people in the union are to be discriminated.
You can’t believe, but its not EU fault when comes to social benefits, its UK politicians, because they know the EU law says All EU citizens have equal rights and responsibilities in the state they reside. So the laws in UK is valid for all Brits and EU citizens, the social system is to, what the native gets as right the EU citizens must have it to. But UK never changed its benefits system like the rest of EU, all, I mean all other members changed its benefit system to contributory one, only you remain. In and open market/movement with 500 million people is suicide to have your benefit system and NHS. People get benefits from the airport(figuratively speaking), after getting NIN they can apply for so many benefits, Im astonished. People who have never payed a dime can take out, children who are not in UK are receiving benefits, what kind of laws you have people? Sorry but its not EU fault, its yours for allowing it.Here is a link to comparison table for unemployment benefits between all EU members.
ec.europa.eu/social/BlobServlet? … &langId=en
By your own logic we’re still stuffed even if we abolish the whole social security and NHS systems and go for a private income protection and health service system which is what it would take to sort out the mess.Because firstly the change over can only possibly apply to those in work not the pre existing unemployed/retired,or those already under treatment and/or with pre existing conditions who won’t get cover etc etc.It will also require a massive change in the minimum wage regime to reflect the costs.
It seems obvious that in either case we’d still need to differentiate our own from immigrants on the basis that it’s a ‘National’ health system and a ‘National’ social security system.While even the type of minimum wage regime required for a private cover system won’t work in an environment of an over supplied labour market saturated with economic migrants/immigrants.On that note the solution is simple.Changing over to a private health and social provision system ain’t going to be easy and it can’t be done over night on a one size fits all basis.While it certainly can’t be done on the basis of continuing with our open door immigration policy which is effectively just a big cheap labour and foreign aid scam.Or exposing our economy to the race to the bottom global free market economy.Regardless of what type of health and social security system we’ve got.
In which case we need to close the borders to further EU ‘and’ non EU immigration.Both of which goes directly against the ideology of people like zb Merkel and Juncker and their bs EU ‘rules’ and can’t be done while we remain a member of the Federalist scam.As for our own problems of a CBI run fiefdom, that’s dedicated to turning this country into a retrograde,degenerate,sweat shop economy,we’ve got more chance of sorting that out outside the EU too.
It’s following up all this EU crap that makes Corbyn unelectable.
He could waltz into Number 10 with an unexpected lurch to the right here (from the EU’s standpoint) whilst maintaining his left-wing bias for UK citizens.
FFS. If you take “Nationalism” and “Socialism” and mix - you get “■■■■”.
Why can’t we have the polar opposite here, and “not give a ■■■■” about appeasing foreigners rather than baiting them all the time, coupled with “Looking after those who ask for the state’s help the least”.
That would mean rebuilding the NHS using only Millionaire’s money. If any millionaire wants to quit their lucractive job and leave - so be it. We’re only talking about taxing incomes here - not capital.
Meanwhile, making work “not pay” is daft. Deceasing taxes when we’ve got a national debt to re-pay - should be illegal. Implementing daft EU policy - but fighting back against those bits that are actually popular in the UK (like worker’s rights) - is plain daft.
It’s about time the EU appealed directly to the British Citizen - and stopped all this other bull that is merely window dressing between different EU leaders. The EU didn’t elect Cameron, and the British Public barely elected him either. A significant gesture is needed by lawmakers to explain to us all WHY we would be better off “staying in” - rather than all this bull about “We’d be worse off if we left”. ANYONE can say that FFS. Let’s have some real facts to go on. After what happened in Scotland - I don’t think the British Public are going to be swayed by 11th-hour token gestures now… 
Winseer:
It’s following up all this EU crap that makes Corbyn unelectable.He could waltz into Number 10 with an unexpected lurch to the right here (from the EU’s standpoint) whilst maintaining his left-wing bias for UK citizens.
FFS. If you take “Nationalism” and “Socialism” and mix - you get “■■■■”.
Why can’t we have the polar opposite here, and “not give a ■■■■” about appeasing foreigners rather than baiting them all the time, coupled with “Looking after those who ask for the state’s help the least”.
That would mean rebuilding the NHS using only Millionaire’s money. If any millionaire wants to quit their lucractive job and leave - so be it. We’re only talking about taxing incomes here - not capital.Meanwhile, making work “not pay” is daft. Deceasing taxes when we’ve got a national debt to re-pay - should be illegal. Implementing daft EU policy - but fighting back against those bits that are actually popular in the UK (like worker’s rights) - is plain daft.
It’s about time the EU appealed directly to the British Citizen - and stopped all this other bull that is merely window dressing between different EU leaders. The EU didn’t elect Cameron, and the British Public barely elected him either. A significant gesture is needed by lawmakers to explain to us all WHY we would be better off “staying in” - rather than all this bull about “We’d be worse off if we left”. ANYONE can say that FFS. Let’s have some real facts to go on. After what happened in Scotland - I don’t think the British Public are going to be swayed by 11th-hour token gestures now…
I’d guess if push came to shove,unlike Shore and possibly even Benn,Corbyn is probably in too deep with the Socialist doctrine to be able to make the required seismic ideological shift that Labour needs to make,thereby taking it onto a Nationalist line.On that note the definition of left as it stands has been hijacked by the socialists in pretending that only they can be the representatives of the working class.When they are actually anything but.
As opposed to a definition of ‘left’ which gets us out of the EU and the global free market economy and applies a protectionist economic policy and which realises that immigration isn’t in the interests of the working class.In which case,contrary to what the socialists try to make out,Nationalist actually means left.While no there can’t possibly be any link between the ideology of friends with fences Nationalist v Federalist/anti nation state borders Socialist and anyone who tries to pretend there is,is at best deluded,or at worse an opportunist liar like Hitler. 
Carryfast, you keep talking all the time how EU is socialist yet, Britain is one of the most socialist countries in Europe. You are Socialist living in nanny State 
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Dolph:
Carryfast, you keep talking all the time how EU is socialist yet, Britain is one of the most socialist countries in Europe. You are Socialist living in nanny State
Our benefit system is more a symptom of trying to subsidise our non Fordist idea of so called ‘Capitalism’.IE great let’s abolish the whole NHS and social security system and replace it with private provision.But that obviously costs money in the form of the higher wages needed to pay for it and retrospective return of tax and national insurance contributions to date.Which probably explains why none of the so called Conservative governments we’ve had have chosen to abolish it.
As for the EU the removal of national borders and Federalism is the definition of Socialism.While I don’t think you’ll find any references to Merkel or Juncker as being Capitalist.
Which then just leaves the question of so called ‘Capitalists’ like Reagan,Thatcher and Cameron selling the country out to definite zb Chinese Communists. 
A Fordist economy would have actual earnings buying workers all the things they want in life.
At some point along the way over the years - buying the things you “want” but maybe shouldn’t aspire to as a lowly worker - started being bought on tick.
THEN came the time that “essential food & bills” starts being put on tick,
and NOW we have “making ends meet requires benefits that pay off the minimum card payments each month, and attempt to jack the debt into another generation to worry about”.
I would applaud the return of PROPER Fordism as I would any implementation of PROPER capitalism.
This latter concept btw, - means that anyone with any amount of money can make a wrong move and lose it all - if the move is ill-thought-out enough.
Instead, we have had Blairites these past few years making their contribution to the legislative programme - too much about “How to protect the wealth you already have” and “how to make money only from people with less than you”.
I’d say Blair was more right-wing than Cameron by a LONG way. I never voted for the man - either man - but I’ll vote for someone who’d snap at the heels of these two conspirators any day. 
Crap! - If someone doesn’t remove Corbyn by 2020 - I could feasibly end up voting for him. Spare the thought! - A tactical vote for Labour from someone who’s never voted Labour in his life to date! 
Winseer:
A Fordist economy would have actual earnings buying workers all the things they want in life.At some point along the way buying the things you “want” but maybe shouldn’t aspire to as a lowly worker
^ That’s the exact contradicton in the so called ‘Capitalist’ ideology that turned it into just another form of Communism.That has led us to where we are now with the Conservative class based idea of ‘Capitalism’ having more in common with Chinese Communism than 1960’s American Capitalism.Which then also infected the US system in the form of Nixon and Reagan.
As for Labour they’ve wasted around a century or more in thinking that the answer to that argument was/is zb Socialism and then losing the plot completely in the form of Blair and now swinging back to the former idea that Socialism will fix everything with Corbyn. 
Which leaves the question could Corbyn just possibly do as I and other ‘Socialists’ like Shore did in the realisation that it’s Nationalism and Fordist Capitalism which is the key to the definition of left wing politics not Socialism.Unfortunately for the future of the country I doubt it.
For someone that’s been in politics for over 30 years - Corbyn really needs to start acting like a player (as Blair managed to do, but all to the downside) and bring in a proper “New Kind Of Politics”.
The big weakness in Corbyn’s “People’s QE” plans is that although the far east’s propping up of sterling would help him no end (in theory, unlimited printing of money available - without the pound dropping much) - The real ‘price’ we’d all end up paying for that is becoming a client state to China. Some would say that’s not actually a bad thing if it means jobs for all, prosperity for all, and a Chinese bringing-back of “Old School” traditions which the Chinese clearly love.
Meanwhile, Osbourne helps to ever borrow more money by blagging to the international money markets that “he is doing a good job by lying about reducing the deficit”. If not only 34% of the public think that Osbourne’s grasp on economics is top-notch - but the international money markets as well - then what hope do we have for a leftie who has all these big spending ideas - but not much in the way of explanations to pay for it as yet. 
Winseer:
The big weakness in Corbyn’s “People’s QE” plans is that although the far east’s propping up of sterling would help him no end (in theory, unlimited printing of money available - without the pound dropping much) - The real ‘price’ we’d all end up paying for that is becoming a client state to China. Some would say that’s not actually a bad thing if it means jobs for all, prosperity for all, and a Chinese bringing-back of “Old School” traditions which the Chinese clearly love.
It seems obvious that the Cons aren’t exactly unknown for the idea of QE based on subbing the country out to China.Which effectively means paying for the debts run up in the form of our far eastern imports and resulting trade deficit by taking on more far eastern credit and resulting debt to pay for yet more far eastern imports and return on their ‘investments’ here.
Free money will always be better than debt. Attempts to weaken the pound have failed this past decade.
During this time - it would have made a lot more sense to print money UNTIL the pound finally fell - rather than borrow it even at low rates of interest - since you still have to pay THAT back.
The spending on infrastructure would have fully used up the worker pool enough so that the economy could recover properly.
One major snag even with this running smoothly though - Our roads cannot take the exponential rise in traffic that is evident at the moment. We can blame this “car culture” thing where there are too many unnecessary journeys being taken by driver-only non-commercial vehicles that are claiming it as expenses even though they are employed, and it’s their own car. Nature will step in eventually, and the fairly static road casualties will start to rise in real terms - I predict. One could argue they are already rising for cyclists and truck drivers in real terms - but that may be just a perception. 2013-14 was a pretty bad year for trucker deaths. 2014-15 has been somewhat quieter.
This island cannot keep expanding it’s per-square-metre population indefinitely. Either future newcomers are going to get shunted to places like Wales, Scotland, or Cornwall - or London is going to see a general worker’s strike within a year. It’s been a long time since a die-back event like a World War or Spanish Flu, or even a proper bank-moratorium based depression like the 1930’s. The banks were bailed out this time to prevent that. Well, the rest of us only have the perception of being better off compared to if we’d have let the banks fail during the credit crunch, and relied upon cash for our economy instead of unlimited tick all the time.
Winseer:
Free money will always be better than debt. Attempts to weaken the pound have failed this past decade.During this time - it would have made a lot more sense to print money UNTIL the pound finally fell - rather than borrow it even at low rates of interest - since you still have to pay THAT back.
The spending on infrastructure would have fully used up the worker pool enough so that the economy could recover properly.
Well, the rest of us only have the perception of being better off compared to if we’d have let the banks fail during the credit crunch, and relied upon cash for our economy instead of unlimited tick all the time.
As you’ll notice my economic ideas link most/all of our problems with our trade deficit.Which in this case translates as unsustainable imports of stuff we could make for ourselves.That deficit can’t be covered by printing money.Which is why the Chinese are chucking it back at us and using it to buy up real estate,infrastructure and food supplies.So it’s obviously in their interests to say that it’s worth more than it is even though they know it’s worthless paper.
As for infrastructure projects being a driver for growth that’s also bs.Because all the money that gets put back into the economy from it,has to be put in first in the form of taxation,borrowing or QE.Which means no net gain to the economy at all.More like a net loss in the form of the taxation,interest payments on loans and loss of assets paid to foreign backers,taken out of it.Not to mention that many of those infrastructure projects provide more foreign jobs in imported hardware,than domestic ones.
The fact is if we want to get rich again we have to start making consumer products for our own domestic market to cut our foreign imports liability and put our own workforce back to work,to pay the taxes required,to pay for the infrastructure projects.Which themselves are at best just a case of being a net burden on the economy in the form of taxation just like any other public sector operation.
Anyone would think that before we were in the EU - there was no such thing as citrus fruit, fancy foreign produce, former British car companies owned by Britons, and foreign imports of any kind.
That sounds more like Moscow 1975 where a single Orange would be sent to each citizen. They could not be obtained for love nor money at other times…
Leaving the EU won’t make us like that.
Leaving the EU allows us to buy and sell stuff directly to those countries, without being told “You can’t do this and you can’t do that” by Brussels who only want the UK to stay in the EU as a cash cow on a drip…
Winseer:
Anyone would think that before we were in the EU - there was no such thing as citrus fruit, fancy foreign produce, former British car companies owned by Britons, and foreign imports of any kind.That sounds more like Moscow 1975 where a single Orange would be sent to each citizen. They could not be obtained for love nor money at other times…
Leaving the EU won’t make us like that.
Leaving the EU allows us to buy and sell stuff directly to those countries, without being told “You can’t do this and you can’t do that” by Brussels who only want the UK to stay in the EU as a cash cow on a drip…
Or to put it another way a ‘free trade’ deal that doesn’t contain a caveat of the summary imposition of tarrifs and quotas,in the case of trade inbalance distortions,affecting the economic security of any party,isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.Let alone any deal which uses economic blackmail to interfere in the sovereignty of any nation state government.
Yesterday’s horrible cowardly attacks on innocent people is another reason why each sovereign nation should have control of their own borders
The multicultural experiment must surely now be over.
In the World Wars - we didn’t grant asylum to large groups of Germans or Turks we were at war with now did we?
If anyone turned up on the beach from those countries, they could expect to be arrested by the home guard/MPs and incarcerated for the duration - IF the arresting people didn’t have a grievance for shooting them on sight, such as their friends and family already having been killed by enemy action…
If you are ISIS in Syria - then you easily get over here “running away from an oppressive regime that means to kill you”.
So… Here they are.
Winseer:
The multicultural experiment must surely now be over.In the World Wars - we didn’t grant asylum to large groups of Germans or Turks we were at war with now did we?
If anyone turned up on the beach from those countries, they could expect to be arrested by the home guard/MPs and incarcerated for the duration - IF the arresting people didn’t have a grievance for shooting them on sight, such as their friends and family already having been killed by enemy action…
If you are ISIS in Syria - then you easily get over here “running away from an oppressive regime that means to kill you”.
So… Here they are.
Well said now it’s time for the UK to leave the EU because if this hasn’t woke up the British public then I don’t know what will
There will be some members of the public right now who think that “considering leaving the EU now” smacks of “wanting to cut the French loose” rather than showing solidarity, which does seem to be the worldwide public thing right now. The authorities in Europe have an opportunity to win us all over with some decent actions here. It’s time to team up against ISIS in Europe, and bugger what the Chinese vote against in the UN. That a single nation can veto something as serious as this - shows us that changing populations since WWII (ie. China’s huge vote per it’s population) leaves the UN being unfit for the 21st century, like so many other institutions set up after WWII.
Russia won’t vote against it, as they are already there. They’ll have the option of standing beside us, or getting the hell out of the way. Russia cannot defeat the entire West - should they gang on en-masse at this point. 
Winseer:
There will be some members of the public right now who think that “considering leaving the EU now” smacks of “wanting to cut the French loose” rather than showing solidarity,
There’s no reason why either of us can’t still do that much more effectively under our own sovereign governments of a Le Pen led France and a Farage led UK and just hope the Germans get on board by sorting out Merkel before it’s too late.
Winseer:
There will be some members of the public right now who think that “considering leaving the EU now” smacks of “wanting to cut the French loose” rather than showing solidarity, which does seem to be the worldwide public thing right now. The authorities in Europe have an opportunity to win us all over with some decent actions here. It’s time to team up against ISIS in Europe, and bugger what the Chinese vote against in the UN. That a single nation can veto something as serious as this - shows us that changing populations since WWII (ie. China’s huge vote per it’s population) leaves the UN being unfit for the 21st century, like so many other institutions set up after WWII.Russia won’t vote against it, as they are already there. They’ll have the option of standing beside us, or getting the hell out of the way. Russia cannot defeat the entire West - should they gang on en-masse at this point.
My point is that the EU,s open borders policy is a threat to all European countries it’s been a catastrophic experiment which has sadly gone wrong on many a occasion
With the dilution of many European countries ways of life in mass open migration this as led to uncontrollable amounts of unknowns to enter countries without any checks to who these people are
We’ve always stood by countries who’ve been affected by tyranny and terrorism