Immigrant:
Cameron does everything to keep UK in the EU.
At Moment he re-directs the Illegal Immigrant to Germany,so he can say “We stopped the Flow to UK”
Against Merkel’s better advice and protests. 
Carryfast:
Dolph:
What’s your opinion of Scotland, will there be a second referendum for Scottish independence if UK leave EU as some politicians are talking more and more?It seems obvious that there is no way that that an English majority to leave the EU would/should accept any in vote that’s dependent on a Scottish vote stay in it and vice versa.Which is one of the reasons why Cameron probably has no intention of calling a referendum.Because he knows that the result is very likely to break up the UK which contradicts the Cons unionist/federalist ideology.It’s also the main flaw in UKIP’s policy in not following an anti federalist line on both issues.
It’s assumed that the Scottish will vote to “stay in” in massive majority in Scotland at least. This suggests they are incapable of a “Tactical Vote” of course:-
If they DID vote to “Stay In” and the overall vote was either “stay in” or “not enough to leave” over the whole UK - then Scotland would never get another referendum on ANYTHING again.
If they voted to “Stay In” and the overall vote was “Leave” - then their local mandate would downgrade that “Leave” into “not enough to leave” as depicted above.
If they voted to “Get out” and WE also voted the same, making a massive majority to leave the EU over the entire nation - They’d get that second referendum, seeing as they’d be in a much stronger position to establish private trade routes with whomever they please - same as the other bits of the UK.
If WE Voted to “Stay In” and the Scots voted in majority to “Leave” - the Scots would be ignored by the EU, and no “second referendum” would happen for either of us. “The result stands and they’ve weighed in.”.
The only chance the Scots have therefore of EVER getting that second referendum in conclusion - is to hope that the British Psyche as a whole favours “leave the EU” - and get with the programme. The upheaval caused by the UK leaving the EU would be the perfect opportunity to quickly follow up with a second Scottish referendum as well, and despite horrifying the EU and the States - WE as now separately “moving out siblings” - would most definitely be better off - once the incoming sanctions are negotiated away our threatened default if need be.
Scots should join the Sassenachs. Let the Hack and ■■■■■ of Anglo Saxon Britain join the Cabered Thump of Celtic Caledonia - and let’s go and kick some Continental ■■■■ together for the last time before going our separate ways! 
Carryfast:
Immigrant:
Cameron does everything to keep UK in the EU.
At Moment he re-directs the Illegal Immigrant to Germany,so he can say “We stopped the Flow to UK”Against Merkel’s better advice and protests.
Quote from another forum, the author is 28 year old female British national(born and bred).
There is Federalist among you as well 
“I’m honestly sick of Westminster. Put an end to this farce of a country, where there is no proper constitution and the executive branch has carte blanche to do as it will, leading to farce after farce where some nutcase gets control of an important aspect of government, like this May has done.
I want a federal Europe, with a constitution and bill of rights and a supreme court, an elected executive and elected chambers at the top, and regional, properly-elected governments in Britain (and elsewhere) to manage the majority of taxation and public services. Modern, accountable government, limited by law in what it can do. Not some medieval farce where a set of bizarre conventions and shibboleths sit in place of the rule of law”.
Dolph:
Quote from another forum, the author is 28 year old female British national(born and bred).
There is Federalist among you as well"I’m honestly sick of Westminster. Put an end to this farce of a country where some nutcase gets control of an important aspect of government
Great at least that shows the in campaign’s real motivation and support for what it is and it’s supporters for the traitorous bunch of zb’s they really are.
On that note it sounds more like something expected of a definition of ‘nationality’ based on jus Soli not jus Sanguinis and a Socialist as much as a Federalist.Or those who’ve turned the remembrance Sunday event into a PC ethnic integrationist propaganda exercise making the bs case that we were fighting to hand the country over to immigration and Federal government.
On that note nutcases like Merkel and Juncker v Brits like Shore and Powell.
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Dolph:
What’s your opinion of Scotland, will there be a second referendum for Scottish independence if UK leave EU as some politicians are talking more and more?It seems obvious that there is no way that that an English majority to leave the EU would/should accept any in vote that’s dependent on a Scottish vote stay in it and vice versa.Which is one of the reasons why Cameron probably has no intention of calling a referendum.Because he knows that the result is very likely to break up the UK which contradicts the Cons unionist/federalist ideology.It’s also the main flaw in UKIP’s policy in not following an anti federalist line on both issues.
It’s assumed that the Scottish will vote to “stay in” in massive majority in Scotland at least. This suggests they are incapable of a “Tactical Vote” of course:-
If they DID vote to “Stay In” and the overall vote was either “stay in” or “not enough to leave” over the whole UK - then Scotland would never get another referendum on ANYTHING again.
If they voted to “Stay In” and the overall vote was “Leave” - then their local mandate would downgrade that “Leave” into “not enough to leave” as depicted above.
If they voted to “Get out” and WE also voted the same, making a massive majority to leave the EU over the entire nation - They’d get that second referendum, seeing as they’d be in a much stronger position to establish private trade routes with whomever they please - same as the other bits of the UK.
If WE Voted to “Stay In” and the Scots voted in majority to “Leave” - the Scots would be ignored by the EU, and no “second referendum” would happen for either of us. “The result stands and they’ve weighed in.”.
The only chance the Scots have therefore of EVER getting that second referendum in conclusion - is to hope that the British Psyche as a whole favours “leave the EU” - and get with the programme. The upheaval caused by the UK leaving the EU would be the perfect opportunity to quickly follow up with a second Scottish referendum as well, and despite horrifying the EU and the States - WE as now separately “moving out siblings” - would most definitely be better off - once the incoming sanctions are negotiated away our threatened default if need be.
Scots should join the Sassenachs. Let the Hack and ■■■■■ of Anglo Saxon Britain join the Cabered Thump of Celtic Caledonia - and let’s go and kick some Continental ■■■■ together for the last time before going our separate ways!
That all seems to be based on the catastrophically erroneous idea that the SNP leadership and vote will suddenly all change to a UKIP type position at least regards EU membership.
As for Anglo Saxon England that has been just a memory since 1066. 
Having been under a Federalist foreign occupation of one sort or another ever since.The impossible contradiction of an Anglo Saxon ‘Britain’ all being part of the propaganda of that Federalist foreign occupation.
Mary Stuart lost her head because she was unable to to the “tactical” thing - and wait for time to put her son on the throne less than 15 years later.
Acting when one should not - is dangerous.
Not acting when one MUST - is dangerous as well.
UKIP are not popular in Scotland, despite being the party associated with Referenda, and an eagerness to “cut loose the Scots”. Corbyn’s best hope of winning an election is with the help of the SNP. I can’t see much need for current SNP seats to flip back to Labour - when they can achieve or fail to achieve the same things from their current position.
The weak hand in all of this is Corbyn’s continued aversion to take the “unoccupied position” in UK-EU politics:
That of taking us out of the EU without even bothering to hold a referendum. The Scots would object - but would support Corbyn IF he buttered the deal up with a promise to hold a second Scottish referendum upon leaving the EU.
Winseer:
Mary Stuart lost her head because she was unable to to the “tactical” thing - and wait for time to put her son on the throne less than 15 years later.Acting when one should not - is dangerous.
Not acting when one MUST - is dangerous as well.UKIP are not popular in Scotland, despite being the party associated with Referenda, and an eagerness to “cut loose the Scots”. Corbyn’s best hope of winning an election is with the help of the SNP. I can’t see much need for current SNP seats to flip back to Labour - when they can achieve or fail to achieve the same things from their current position.
The weak hand in all of this is Corbyn’s continued aversion to take the “unoccupied position” in UK-EU politics:
That of taking us out of the EU without even bothering to hold a referendum. The Scots would object - but would support Corbyn IF he buttered the deal up with a promise to hold a second Scottish referendum upon leaving the EU.
If UKIP is a pro Scottish independence Party then why did it support the unionist agenda during the Scottish independence vote ?.The fact is the contradiction in its pro UK union anti EU position is one of the main flaws in its policy and structure.Just as the SNP’s anti UK pro EU position is.Which as I’ve said will be massively counterproductive from the point of view of us getting out of the EU.
While I’d agree ‘if’ Labour changed to an anti EU, anti UK,anti globalist,protectionist,position that would probably be a game changer.In which case we could cut ourselves loose from the whole mess and it’s my bet that the Scots would soon see sense in the mistake of following zb Sturgeon and Merkel instead of ‘real Labour’. 
dave getting nowhere fast in EU talks
""Mr Cameron formally set out his demands in a letter to the president of the European Council Donald Tusk saying four objectives lie at the heart of the UK’s renegotiations:
1 Protection of the single market for Britain and other non-euro countries
2 Boosting competitiveness by setting a target for the reduction of the “burden” of red tape
3 Exempting Britain from “ever-closer union” and bolstering national parliaments
4 Restricting EU migrants’ access to in-work benefits such as tax credits “”
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34770875
if this really is all he thinks is wrong with relationship then he should knock his government on the head pretty sharpish , and let someone sensible have a go
Winseer:
Scots should join the Sassenachs. Let the Hack and ■■■■■ of Anglo Saxon Britain join the Cabered Thump of Celtic Caledonia - and let’s go and kick some Continental ■■■■ together for the last time before going our separate ways!
cant happen soon enough for me .
after 400 years plus of whinging about england , they refuse to cut the strings
a huge disservice to all the english who were not allowed to vote , and particularly to the english seperatist regions .
i would even prefer to be ruled directly by belguim than by the bloody weak kneed scots
the scots , with 1 vote , turned themselves from a nation of bravehearts …
into a nation of yellowbellies
Carryfast:
Winseer:
Mary Stuart lost her head because she was unable to to the “tactical” thing - and wait for time to put her son on the throne less than 15 years later.Acting when one should not - is dangerous.
Not acting when one MUST - is dangerous as well.UKIP are not popular in Scotland, despite being the party associated with Referenda, and an eagerness to “cut loose the Scots”. Corbyn’s best hope of winning an election is with the help of the SNP. I can’t see much need for current SNP seats to flip back to Labour - when they can achieve or fail to achieve the same things from their current position.
The weak hand in all of this is Corbyn’s continued aversion to take the “unoccupied position” in UK-EU politics:
That of taking us out of the EU without even bothering to hold a referendum. The Scots would object - but would support Corbyn IF he buttered the deal up with a promise to hold a second Scottish referendum upon leaving the EU.If UKIP is a pro Scottish independence Party then why did it support the unionist agenda during the Scottish independence vote ?.The fact is the contradiction in its pro UK union anti EU position is one of the main flaws in its policy and structure.Just as the SNP’s anti UK pro EU position is.Which as I’ve said will be massively counterproductive from the point of view of us getting out of the EU.
While I’d agree ‘if’ Labour changed to an anti EU, anti UK,anti globalist,protectionist,position that would probably be a game changer.In which case we could cut ourselves loose from the whole mess and it’s my bet that the Scots would soon see sense in the mistake of following zb Sturgeon and Merkel instead of ‘real Labour’.
As far as I know - UKIP were a pro Scottish REFERENDUM party. I didn’t think they’d taken sides over what the actual result of that referendum would be… I don’t recall people like Darling and Brown being flanked by UKIP people handing out “Better off Together” leaflets…
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Winseer:
Mary Stuart lost her head because she was unable to to the “tactical” thing - and wait for time to put her son on the throne less than 15 years later.Acting when one should not - is dangerous.
Not acting when one MUST - is dangerous as well.UKIP are not popular in Scotland, despite being the party associated with Referenda, and an eagerness to “cut loose the Scots”. Corbyn’s best hope of winning an election is with the help of the SNP. I can’t see much need for current SNP seats to flip back to Labour - when they can achieve or fail to achieve the same things from their current position.
The weak hand in all of this is Corbyn’s continued aversion to take the “unoccupied position” in UK-EU politics:
That of taking us out of the EU without even bothering to hold a referendum. The Scots would object - but would support Corbyn IF he buttered the deal up with a promise to hold a second Scottish referendum upon leaving the EU.If UKIP is a pro Scottish independence Party then why did it support the unionist agenda during the Scottish independence vote ?.The fact is the contradiction in its pro UK union anti EU position is one of the main flaws in its policy and structure.Just as the SNP’s anti UK pro EU position is.Which as I’ve said will be massively counterproductive from the point of view of us getting out of the EU.
While I’d agree ‘if’ Labour changed to an anti EU, anti UK,anti globalist,protectionist,position that would probably be a game changer.In which case we could cut ourselves loose from the whole mess and it’s my bet that the Scots would soon see sense in the mistake of following zb Sturgeon and Merkel instead of ‘real Labour’.
As far as I know - UKIP were a pro Scottish REFERENDUM party. I didn’t think they’d taken sides over what the actual result of that referendum would be… I don’t recall people like Darling and Brown being flanked by UKIP people handing out “Better off Together” leaflets…
It would be fair to say that UKIP is a UK Unionist Party just like the Cons.The clue is in the title. 
German Ministers Preparing ‘Putsch’ Against Merkel – German Magazine.
Merkel’s former friends are gradually becoming her major opponents. The German Chancellor is not only losing power over the refugee crisis in Europe, but she is also unable to manage her own government, German magazine Der Spiegel wrote.
Read more: sputniknews.com/europe/20151111/ … z3rCESoGRR
Dolph:
German Ministers Preparing ‘Putsch’ Against Merkel – German Magazine.
Merkel’s former friends are gradually becoming her major opponents. The German Chancellor is not only losing power over the refugee crisis in Europe, but she is also unable to manage her own government, German magazine Der Spiegel wrote.Read more: sputniknews.com/europe/20151111/ … z3rCESoGRR
First they allow a documented East German commy Stasi member to get control of the German government.Then they let her bring in at least a million illegal African/Asian immigrants and that’s just the ones they know about,and then they gradually change their minds.Sounds like a catastrophic case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.Having said that it might get ‘interesting’ if/when the issue and precedent of repatriation kicks off one way or another there.IE go quietly or ve haf vays of making you go.Just like Merkel.
So what we have here is the EU says “You can’t be stingy towards immigrants” but “You CAN be stingy towards your incumbent benefit claimaints”.
Listening to the local lads (immigrants of 10+ years standing themselves) - they are spitting blood over the prospect of having THEIR benefits cut - but any newcomers do not - it seems.
I can’t work out how that happens though. Surely the cuts for anyone already on benefits - are all about “Threshold Violation” - ie one’s pay has actually advanced at last, and the whip has cracked on those who’ve received some pay rises these last few years since the credit crunch - and tapered them off pound for pound rather than the former 28% or whatever it was beforehand. In any case, any “fresh claimants” would just be on the new lower-threshold rates from day one as far as they were concerned. They’ll still be getting the “new, lower money”.
Makes one wonder why the Tories didn’t just abolish the entire tax credit system - the EU couldn’t have prevented THAT - since it was a UK law introduced in the first instance (not an EU imposition) and therefore one would think the EU didn’t give a toss about it. 
Winseer:
So what we have here is the EU says “You can’t be stingy towards immigrants” but “You CAN be stingy towards your incumbent benefit claimaints”.Makes one wonder why the Tories didn’t just abolish the entire tax credit system - the EU couldn’t have prevented THAT - since it was a UK law introduced in the first instance (not an EU imposition) and therefore one would think the EU didn’t give a toss about it.
The EU’s case is that anything we provide for ourselves has to also be available to anyone who is here under the conditions of EU free movement rules.Which in this case unfortunately means an obvious scam in which UK taxpayers fund low wage employment.In which free movement adds to the labour supply and reduces wage levels thereby increasing dependency on in work benefits and resulting tax liability.Merkel’s and CBI ideas of economics in action.
Carryfast:
Winseer:
So what we have here is the EU says “You can’t be stingy towards immigrants” but “You CAN be stingy towards your incumbent benefit claimaints”.Makes one wonder why the Tories didn’t just abolish the entire tax credit system - the EU couldn’t have prevented THAT - since it was a UK law introduced in the first instance (not an EU imposition) and therefore one would think the EU didn’t give a toss about it.
The EU’s case is that anything we provide for ourselves has to also be available to anyone who is here under the conditions of EU free movement rules.Which in this case unfortunately means an obvious scam in which UK taxpayers fund low wage employment.In which free movement adds to the labour supply and reduces wage levels thereby increasing dependency on in work benefits and resulting tax liability.Merkel’s and CBI ideas of economics in action.
The law is the same for all EU, once you are a member of the union you can not discriminate between native people and new comers from EU nations. The rules are the same in Bulgaria for Bulgarians and British and any other EU citizens living here or just visiting. Your politicians knew this all along the EE acceptance into EU and did nothing to change UK benefit system. Its not EU fault for what is happening in UK its your politicians fault for not preventing it, all of the rest of EU did it - Contributory based system.
In 21 century I can come to UK and get benefits and free NHS service, this is idiotic, you will bankrupt sooner or later…
Dolph:
Carryfast:
The EU’s case is that anything we provide for ourselves has to also be available to anyone who is here under the conditions of EU free movement rules.Which in this case unfortunately means an obvious scam in which UK taxpayers fund low wage employment.In which free movement adds to the labour supply and reduces wage levels thereby increasing dependency on in work benefits and resulting tax liability.Merkel’s and CBI ideas of economics in action.The law is the same for all EU, once you are a member of the union you can not discriminate between native people and new comers from EU nations. The rules are the same in Bulgaria for Bulgarians and British and any other EU citizens living here or just visiting. Your politicians knew this all along the EE acceptance into EU and did nothing to change UK benefit system. Its not EU fault for what is happening in UK its your politicians fault for not preventing it, all of the rest of EU did it - Contributory based system.
In 21 century I can come to UK and get benefits and free NHS service, this is idiotic, you will bankrupt sooner or later…
Great if all that doesn’t turn even Labour’s most committed Socialists against our continuing EU membership nothing will.
Dolph:
The law is the same for all EU, once you are a member of the union you can not discriminate between native people and new comers from EU nations. The rules are the same in Bulgaria for Bulgarians and British and any other EU citizens living here or just visiting…
this is why the EU (as opposed 2 a common market) has always been doomed .
its comparing apples and oranges . if i go to some ex soviet car crash country i wont be able to claim dole , housing benefit , child benefit etc , and i certainly am unlikely to get a job .
so i am discriminated against by your government .
the EU is trying to impose equality by bringing us all down to romanias level
Your politicians knew this all along the EE acceptance into EU and did nothing to change UK benefit system. Its not EU fault for what is happening in UK its your politicians fault for not preventing it, all of the rest of EU did it
no one is going to defend british politics ! but i cant believe its not EU fault . it is precisely EU fault for being a meglomanic federal fruitcake . the EU as a whole pushed this mad expansion . they should have created EU2 for all the backward countries to cooperate thru , which could have had free trade with rump EU . but NOT free movement .
In 21 century I can come to UK and get benefits and free NHS service, this is idiotic, you will bankrupt sooner or later…
ive got members of my family who have paid in from day 1 . why should they have to go without just to appease a bunch of wall jumpers
boredwivdrivin:
Dolph:
The law is the same for all EU, once you are a member of the union you can not discriminate between native people and new comers from EU nations. The rules are the same in Bulgaria for Bulgarians and British and any other EU citizens living here or just visiting…this is why the EU (as opposed 2 a common market) has always been doomed .
its comparing apples and oranges . if i go to some ex soviet car crash country i wont be able to claim dole , housing benefit , child benefit etc , and i certainly am unlikely to get a job .
so i am discriminated against by your government .
the EU is trying to impose equality by bringing us all down to romanias level
Your politicians knew this all along the EE acceptance into EU and did nothing to change UK benefit system. Its not EU fault for what is happening in UK its your politicians fault for not preventing it, all of the rest of EU did it
no one is going to defend british politics ! but i cant believe its not EU fault . it is precisely EU fault for being a meglomanic federal fruitcake . the EU as a whole pushed this mad expansion . they should have created EU2 for all the backward countries to cooperate thru , which could have had free trade with rump EU . but NOT free movement .
In 21 century I can come to UK and get benefits and free NHS service, this is idiotic, you will bankrupt sooner or later…
ive got members of my family who have paid in from day 1 . why should they have to go without just to appease a bunch of wall jumpers
No you are not going to be discriminated, because the same law applies for native people as well, I’ll not receive benefits if I had not contributed first, the same is valid for you. Why don’t you ask Brits living here in BG, the rules are for everybody so no people in the union are to be discriminated.
You can’t believe, but its not EU fault when comes to social benefits, its UK politicians, because they know the EU law says All EU citizens have equal rights and responsibilities in the state they reside. So the laws in UK is valid for all Brits and EU citizens, the social system is to, what the native gets as right the EU citizens must have it to. But UK never changed its benefits system like the rest of EU, all, I mean all other members changed its benefit system to contributory one, only you remain. In and open market/movement with 500 million people is suicide to have your benefit system and NHS. People get benefits from the airport(figuratively speaking), after getting NIN they can apply for so many benefits, Im astonished. People who have never payed a dime can take out, children who are not in UK are receiving benefits, what kind of laws you have people? Sorry but its not EU fault, its yours for allowing it.
Here is a link to comparison table for unemployment benefits between all EU members.
ec.europa.eu/social/BlobServlet? … &langId=en