In or out of EU ? Poll

[winseer]

The Pound has been sold off recently in anticipation of an early EU referendum. If it then gets put back - does that mean that the selling will continue, or reverse itself?

I can’t see how we can have a referendum this year at all really… Cameron isn’t any closer to getting an “agreement” he can try and bluff us with now than a year ago. I’m not expecting any changes for the rest of this year either.

I suggest the referendum might be held off until the first couple of interest rate hikes have taken place - because then one of the arguments that Cameron can make regarding “Staying in the EU” - is that “Hey mortgage payers - vote to stay in, and you can have the EU’s 0.15% base rate back again! - Pity it’s already 1% and rising now though… If only you could vote to Stay In!”

If memory serves, the lower EU interest rate didn’t interest the UK public in joining the Euro over a decade back - so I dunno why Cameron is overthinking this at all. Just tell the bloody truth, and fight tooth and nail to do what the public wants. It would be very useful if Cameron could go with the camp that’s in the lead running upto the actual referendum though, since what we DON’T want is that lukewarm result between 60/40 either way.

Let’s push it to 75%+ one way or the other please. I’d even prefer 80% staying in rather than 51/49 get out - strange though that sounds…

[juddian]

Our economy is great??

Have a quick poke nose at the national debt and the current defecit, its a gigantic bloody ponzi scheme based on cheap labour, a constantly growing population, service industries (how can a service be an industry), and due in no small way to constant immigration (which our electorate keep voting for turkey/Christmas like) ever rising land and property prices.

Going to be tears, again, when it all comes crashing back to earth, again.

[eagerbeaver]

Yep, been here before J.

I get the feeling that the public are being led to believe things will be better in future because, we are never going to be given mortgages that we can’t afford again.

But as many knowledgeable posters on here have intimated, there’s ’ a bit more to it ’ than that.

[winseer]

eagerbeaver:
Yep, been here before J.

I get the feeling that the public are being led to believe things will be better in future because, we are never going to be given mortgages that we can’t afford again.

But as many knowledgeable posters on here have intimated, there’s ’ a bit more to it ’ than that.

It’s been a travesty these past 8 years that the very thing that would have given us some kind of proper recovery - would have been affordable houses in the form of “expensive, rising prices - but giveaway interest rates fixed for the whole term”.

We would all be able to afford a house costing £250,000 if our mortgage rate is only 0.6% fixed for 25 years now wouldn’t we?
(That’s less than £900 per month repayment - about the average amount a 3 bedroomed semi costs to rent these days…)

The banks should have been told “Give out mortgages like this - or have your banking licence revoked.”

It only takes a government with balls (not ‘Ed’) rather than one full of lickcocks to get this done.

[gazsa401]

[winseer]

Tory voters think "I’m alright jack - because the government now lets me, too, get my snout into the gravy train of “tax offset expenses”…

Your jobs already got sold, you idiots - and HMRC will eventually get that offset tax back off you anyways, cos the higher-ups are not paying tax at all!

[winseer]

How much of what we hear about the Referendum prospects is total ■■■■■■■■ then?

We have been led to believe that the OUT camp is gaining ground. Is it?
Politicians that the OUT camp desperately needs - are still sitting on the fence.

The odds a week ago of us “Staying in the EU” were odds-on 1/2.
A week later - they are now odds-on 4/9.

That’s a SHORTER price for those of you who don’t know what the inside of a bookies shop looks like.

The referendum result is something that is already considered “In Play” and can be bet upon one way of the other - right up until the end of 2017.

Those strongly in favour of leaving the EU - (of which I am one of course) - are not enough to get past the “silent voters who don’t argue the toss about such things, but’ll come out on the day just to prevent any changes taking place”…

Pretty much the same result should be expected as for the last election therefore, - Much as I dislike to say it.
Sheep keeping us in on the day.

We need a EU scandal that say, steals money from pensioners, the NHS directly, or some of these people a bit too many get to become victims of immigrant criminals. Sheep are of the nature that even if the one next to them gets slaughtered - it doesn’t register. It bloody well registers if you HURT both sheep rather than “kill one, and leave the other”. In that regard, the referendum has some hope of going a different way in terms of Status-Quo death than your average General election or by-election.

That has already started to be sure… But of course it gets under-reported because the MEDIA wants us to bloody well stay in as well!

Meanwhile, Farage has backed the GRASSROOTS OUT campaign. It already has cross-party support, not wanting to wait forever for Boris the Bold and Maggie May to make their damned minds up…

The first of the Grassroots Out meetings has already been held in Kettering. There’s a few already-known Tory and Labour faces there (Tories: Bone, Hollobone, & Pursglove) plus Labour’s Kate Hoey, along with DUP Sammy Wilson and even Liam Fox.

With only a minority with the establishment and media as it’s voice - they’ll be telling us loudly as many lies as possible to get us to “vote for the devil you know” yet again, as is always the case when some real change is in the offing.

Ordinary members of the public should realize that to Leave the EU - is to end Austerity on the spot. It doesn’t mean things like “losing all our trade” or even “getting rid of the Conservatives from Government”. Even Cameron can stay providing he backs the right horse for the Great British Public BEFORE the referendum takes place!

[dolph]

It’s also curious can and will the UK Government control its borders and benefits to immigrants post Brexit? Or will import more people on visa schemes.
What will UK gain and loose from Brexit, will companies move to the continent or stay? Is there going to be import/export tariffs? What will happen with the economy? What will happen with EU nationals who had worked in UK and vice versa Brits who had worked in EU regarding pension and healthcare contribution? What will happen with families with one parent being non British citizen living in UK, or family with one British partner living in EU? What is going to happen with police cooperation. The questions are so many.
No one of the whole political spectrum in UK nor in EU say what will be post Brexit for both UK and EU.

[themoocher]

Dolph:
It’s also curious can and will the UK Government control its borders and benefits to immigrants post Brexit? Or will import more people on visa schemes.
What will UK gain and loose from Brexit, will companies move to the continent or stay? Is there going to be import/export tariffs? What will happen with the economy? What will happen with EU nationals who had worked in UK and vice versa Brits who had worked in EU regarding pension and healthcare contribution? What will happen with families with one parent being non British citizen living in UK, or family with one British partner living in EU? What is going to happen with police cooperation. The questions are so many.
No one of the whole political spectrum in UK nor in EU say what will be post Brexit for both UK and EU.

Quite simple really.
Round them all up like cattle.
Get the boats they just got off, on standby and deport back to EE or what ever other part of Europe or shanty towns in Middle East or Africa.

Na only joking.
I think the people that’s here already will stay as they are getting a vote.
I don’t see what the problem will be Dolph it will just be the same situation as none Euro citizens are going through just now.
There are lots of married couple who’s other half is a foreign none Euro citizen that can’t get a visa or permit.
Just means EEs won’t have free meal ticket and join the que to get in our Great country, God save the queen and let’s bring the Great back into Britian lol

[winseer]

Let’s assume is not practical to actually deport a seven figure number of people already here. They’ll likely go to ground on a strong “OUT” result for example. At least the ones who don’t have to have a fixed address for BENEFIT CLAIMS!

You can solve the entire problem by dealing with the benefits situation.

If immigrants already here want to run away and hide in the country - then they become of “no fixed abode” which disqualifies them from ALL benefits.
They’d be bothering the landowners and the frey bentos door openers - and that’s about it. I can live with that.

Those who choose to stay ON the radar - keep their benefits if they’ve paid taxes and more importantly NICs for the 4 years spoken of. Easy.
Those working in sweatshops for exactly 30 hours a week on exactly minimum wages claiming exactly the maximum in housing benefits - are going to find themselves squeezed by the housing benefits cap. Or at least their landlords are… Boo Hoo!

Those currently working in the black market, not working at all, or are officially criminals at large in the UK - If captured in a state of outlaw - they should have a new purpose-built work prison to be assigned too, somewhere like Cape Wrath, Dartmoor, etc. Since we’re out of the EU by this point - the sovereignty-emasculating HRC has been binned, so there’s no issues with “OOhh you can’t lock criminals up - it’s against their yuman rights!”

So… If you’re an immigrant who’s already got a job - then as long as it’s a good one that disqualifies you from benefits already - you lose NOTHING. You actually GAIN because public services would improve dramatically once we’re out of the EU, and not wasting all that money on it.

If you’re an immigrant with a crappy job - you get access to benefits after the four years of paying NICs. If you don’t think you can last that long - go home of your own accord.

If you’re an immigrant with NO job - better report to one of the government centres for deportation - where they’ll give you a free one-way ticket to anywhere you want to go in the Arab world - since you didn’t fancy dropping the culture on arrival in the first place. So what if we upset Saudi Arabia. It’s about time we stopped selling ISIS arms by the back door anyways dontchya think?

Eastern Europeans would prosper under this system. This group of immigrants are employing themselves when they can’t get a job otherwise. You don’t start to get problems until you run into the Muslim minorities of these countries like Rumania, Bulgaria, & Macedonia once again. Are we having any problems with the Orthodox and Catholic crowds? - NO!

Employers of immigrants - should be obliged to train them up properly, hold English classes for them, and this is to be enforced by the Insurers refusing the Insure a yard that doesn’t supply such training.

[wetback]

There appears to be an ever-recurring trend whereby those fortunate enough to have escaped the dismal realities of their own grotty, run-down countries, unerringly think that EU membership (let us not forget - we originally joined the Common Market, which bears absolutely no resemblance to what we have now been shackled to) is a godsend to the indigenous people of their adopted new country, home, and life. Closer to the truth to say its been a godsend to themselves. The sheer weight of numbers tells its own story as to how wonderful life was under Eastern European masters. They come here simply because its incomparably better than the bleak future they were guaranteed back home. Austerity takes on a whole new mantle in some other regions of what we shall call for arguments sake, Europe.

Dont quite know why, but im expecting some fairly vociferous responses.

[carryfast]

■■■■■■■:
There appears to be an ever-recurring trend whereby those fortunate enough to have escaped the dismal realities of their own grotty, run-down countries, unerringly think that EU membership (let us not forget - we originally joined the Common Market, which bears absolutely no resemblance to what we have now been shackled to) is a godsend to the indigenous people of their adopted new country, home, and life. Closer to the truth to say its been a godsend to themselves. The sheer weight of numbers tells its own story as to how wonderful life was under Eastern European masters. They come here simply because its incomparably better than the bleak future they were guaranteed back home. Austerity takes on a whole new mantle in some other regions of what we shall call for arguments sake, Europe.

Dont quite know why, but im expecting some fairly vociferous responses.

It’s simply an unarguable situation of the Anglo Saxon ethnic group really being ‘uber alles’.With the combination of that inconvenient fact being too much for the Socialists to stomach.So they want to demographically wipe it out of existence by importing all the rest who want to be ‘with us’.The ‘rest’ in question taking advantage of that because they just aren’t good enough to make their own societies a place worth living in.All helped by so called ‘Capitalists’ who think that the object of Capitalism is the Communist idea of making a few people very rich by exploiting the working class in the form of cheap labour provided by the so called free labour market.The definition of ‘free’ in this case meaning free movement of cheap labour but strict controls on the movement of that Anglo Saxon ethnic group between the home country and its colonies like Australia and Canada.

[winseer]

The bottom line is that if you give too much freedom to those who were once your enemies - they’ll wrap it around your head.

We’ve been at war with just about every nation who argues against us in our woes over the EU issues. That includes Scotland too. THEY want “in”, Germany wants us to stay in, the Muslim world wants us to stay in so they can keep on coming, and America wants us to stay in as well.

Scandinavia, perhaps hold some sympathy with us. We’ve not been at direct war with them for over a thousand years… There seems to be some relationship between our former enemies and those giving us a hard time out there right now - doesn’t there?

[carryfast]

Winseer:
The bottom line is that if you give too much freedom to those who were once your enemies - they’ll wrap it around your head.

We’ve been at war with just about every nation who argues against us in our woes over the EU issues. That includes Scotland too. THEY want “in”, Germany wants us to stay in, the Muslim world wants us to stay in so they can keep on coming, and America wants us to stay in as well.

Scandinavia, perhaps hold some sympathy with us. We’ve not been at direct war with them for over a thousand years… There seems to be some relationship between our former enemies and those giving us a hard time out there right now - doesn’t there?

Firstly the US is zb scared of the idea of anti federalism and secession for obvious reasons at home.

The rest makes a lot of sense.In this case our membership originally being based on Heath’s fears of Germany ‘kicking off’ again against us and/or France and thinking that economic and political appeasement was the best way of solving that non existent problem.

Germany now obviously throwing its toys out of the pram in the knowledge that we might ( hopefully ) now be going and probably taking France with us so the end of that appeasement which Germany has got used to enjoying.Especially bearing in mind that Germany’s power base has now been hijacked by a Socialist nutter at least as bad as the last one.

[dolph]

Themoocher:

Dolph:
It’s also curious can and will the UK Government control its borders and benefits to immigrants post Brexit? Or will import more people on visa schemes.
What will UK gain and loose from Brexit, will companies move to the continent or stay? Is there going to be import/export tariffs? What will happen with the economy? What will happen with EU nationals who had worked in UK and vice versa Brits who had worked in EU regarding pension and healthcare contribution? What will happen with families with one parent being non British citizen living in UK, or family with one British partner living in EU? What is going to happen with police cooperation. The questions are so many.
No one of the whole political spectrum in UK nor in EU say what will be post Brexit for both UK and EU.

Quite simple really.
Round them all up like cattle.
Get the boats they just got off, on standby and deport back to EE or what ever other part of Europe or shanty towns in Middle East or Africa.

Na only joking.
I think the people that’s here already will stay as they are getting a vote.
I don’t see what the problem will be Dolph it will just be the same situation as none Euro citizens are going through just now.
There are lots of married couple who’s other half is a foreign none Euro citizen that can’t get a visa or permit.
Just means EEs won’t have free meal ticket and join the que to get in our Great country, God save the queen and let’s bring the Great back into Britian lol

Its not gonna be the first time powerful country deports people
Foreigners that can’t get spouse visa is not EU mandate actually, its British law, in order to deal with sham marriage they(Downing street) made minimum mandatory income of 18 600. In the end of the day British families are hurt more then anyone else, because EU citizen can bring his/her non EU spouse into UK without a problem, why UK Government made this law is mind boggling. Same with the benefits now for 4 years, this will hurt young Brits more then all EE immigrants combined, its pointless because all EE come to work and with the rise of minimum wage, people will make more money and won’t qualify for benefits.

Im curious to know, how many of you think you will be better of post Brexit(out of EU) with the politicians that are ruling Britain today? I read all over the internet: we will get our country back once out of EU, well who will deliver this - keep the jobs and businesses, sign hundreds of treaties?
I was reading the other day an article on trade treaties, stating that in order to negotiate and sign the trade treaties that UK enjoy today as EU member, will take 10 years to be signed as independent UK. And not heaving the market of 500mil. behind its back will make even harder for UK to negotiate favorable deals.
I cant imagine Cameron, Boris Johnson, Corbin or Farage making all this deals.
It goes to show how much is unknown and no politician will tell the truth for anyone sake - UK and EU.

[g8ymw]

I was reading the other day an article on trade treaties, stating that in order to negotiate and sign the trade treaties that UK enjoy today as EU member, will take 10 years to be signed as independent UK. And not heaving the market of 500mil. behind its back will make even harder for UK to negotiate favorable deals.

The treaties and trade agreements are already largely in place so that will not be a problem.
My problems with the EEC / EU are that (Considering I was around when Ted Heath took us into the EEC)
(1) How could Britain prosper by joining a saturated market
(2) Certain countries were (and indeed still are) engaged in blatant protectionism
(3) The “club” is controlled by an unelected commission, the European Parliament is a powerless talking shop only

For those who thought that the EEC was a free trade area, remember what “Knocker” Powell was saying in 1973/4 (I’d be the first to admit to not knowing what he was on about at the time)

It goes to show how much is unknown and no politician will tell the truth for anyone sake - UK and EU.

That is one thing I think we are all agreed on

[wetback]

Cameron and his cronies hard at work, spinning every negative they can conjure up in order to try and rein in the “out” vote.
Characteristically pathetic.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e … m-35519210

[drhs]

hpoefully soon the gravy train will stop…

[carryfast]

Dolph:
Im curious to know, how many of you think you will be better of post Brexit(out of EU) with the politicians that are ruling Britain today? I read all over the internet: we will get our country back once out of EU, well who will deliver this - keep the jobs and businesses, sign hundreds of treaties?
I was reading the other day an article on trade treaties, stating that in order to negotiate and sign the trade treaties that UK enjoy today as EU member, will take 10 years to be signed as independent UK. And not heaving the market of 500mil. behind its back will make even harder for UK to negotiate favorable deals.
I cant imagine Cameron, Boris Johnson, Corbin or Farage making all this deals.
It goes to show how much is unknown and no politician will tell the truth for anyone sake - UK and EU.

It’s obvious that ‘if’ we vote out Cameron’s position will be untenable as will the Europhile side of the Cons and they know it.Make no mistake the argument is whether we want to condemn future generations of Brits to a Federal Europe run by an alliance of Socialists like Merkel and Federalist Cons like Cameron.In which your empty threats of trade sanctions if we dare to secede,will in the future,inevitably turn into the very real threat of military force by a Euro Federal army regards same.

As for Farage exactly what ‘deals’ are you referring to ?.Other than ( hopefully ) already making plans for a post Brexit vote alliance with a new Davis or Fox led Euro Sceptic Conservative/UKIP alliance and the reality that the UK is as much an irrelevant dead duck in that environment as our EU membership,after the inevitable General Election and Scottish Independence vote which will have to follow.

While if there are any ‘deals’ they will be more likely to be between Cameron’s Europhile Cons and Labour and the SNP to ‘postpone’ the ‘referendum’ until further notice.Assuming the inevitable forthcoming in campaign propaganda blitz looks in the slightest like failing.Bearing in mind the stakes ( from their point of view ) of a successful out campaign.

[carryfast]

■■■■■■■:
Cameron and his cronies hard at work, spinning every negative they can conjure up in order to try and rein in the “out” vote.
Characteristically pathetic.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e … m-35519210

It seems obvious that what the pro immigration lobby really fears is that such a change in border controls would require an equal change in immigration policy to repatriate/deport first at point of entry then ask questions after.The fact is the pro EU anti EU argument is unavoidably linked to the immigration one and the pro immigration lobby knows it.