Pretty sure u dont need religion to be a go getting catholic these days . just a strong belief in power of capitalism and an unhealthy interest in kiddies in swimming costumes !
But seriously it does illustrate the need to be careful not to throw everybody with a defined belief into the same bucket !
In terms of a 2 choice referendum SOME socialists are every bit as anti as SOME UKIP .
They reach their conclusions for exactly the opposite reasons sure .
But the OUT socialists and the OUT ukips and the OUT greens are on the same side in this fight . each of their votes are equal .
Thats the bit i want to get you to acknowledge , one day before i start my composting phase of life !!
boredwivdrivin:
But seriously it does illustrate the need to be careful not to throw everybody with a defined belief into the same bucket !
In terms of a 2 choice referendum SOME socialists are every bit as anti as SOME UKIP .
They reach their conclusions for exactly the opposite reasons sure .
But the OUT socialists and the OUT ukips and the OUT greens are on the same side in this fight . each of their votes are equal .
Thats the bit i want to get you to acknowledge , one day before i start my composting phase of life !!
The irony of an out vote,based on the contradiction of Socialists who think that the EU is run by reformed ex Stasi/Bolshevik Capitalists and some who think it’s a Socialist infiltrated clusterzb run by Stasi and Bolshevik sleepers like Merkel and her allies.Can only end up in an even bigger implosion here if/when the two opposing sides actually succeed in getting us out.
IE getting out in that case will have solved nothing whatsoever because the same arguments will remain just the same.IE the zbwit Socialists will still be shouting for open borders to let anyone in who wants to come here.In order to, as they see it,add to their demographic and ideology.In which case what would have changed. Realistically this is now a European wide Socialist anti Socialist fight whether we’re in or out in which the only difference is that the Socialists obviously don’t trust each other.Whereas those on the Nationalist side of the argument know which side that Le Pen and Pegida are on.That’s the bit that really scaring people like that Polish Bolshevik zb and Merkel.IE Europe is now heading for a long needed stand off between the aims of those like Merkel and those like Le Pen and now isn’t the time to let the zbwits in the SWP derail that argument by letting them hijack the out campaign.
I’ve said earlier there’s different takes on socialism
I’m very much anti EU and I’d stand with UKIP the Greens and any other group which is part of the leave campaign
So I think its about time for those of us that want to leave the EU should forget about capitalism socialism communism or whatever your political views are to come together
There’s clearly more than one type of socialism then. Corbyn is dead against China and Russia after all, when “traditional” socialists would be communist cocklicking from the moment they became Labour Party Leader otherwise - surely?
I reckon Milliband would have won the election if he’d stood on a “take us out of the EU without a referendum” ticket, seeing as the “offer the people a referendum” chance was snatched up by Cameron, thus depriving UKIP of any chance of governing with them.
Those people who don’t want a referendum are not so much “anti-democratic” - they are worried about a lukewarm result leading to more dithering and wrong-way-diving.
The best result in a referendum is a clear 75% result one way or the other. I’d personally like to come out of the EU - but if 75% or more of people vote to stay in - then I’ll have to respect that.
I WON’T respect a half-hearted result like the Scots got though… 55/45.
Most of the campaign arguments on both sides are of course optimistic speculation on the “out” side and pessimist speculation for the “in” side.
The out campaign can’t really know the downside risks from leaving - any more than the in campaign can know in advance what future rip-off escalation will take place should we vote by a narrow margin to stay in - currently considered to be the most likely outcome to the forthcoming referendum.
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
There’s clearly more than one type of socialism then. Corbyn is dead against China and Russia after all, when “traditional” socialists would be communist cocklicking from the moment they became Labour Party Leader otherwise - surely?
I reckon Milliband would have won the election if he’d stood on a “take us out of the EU without a referendum” ticket, seeing as the “offer the people a referendum” chance was snatched up by Cameron, thus depriving UKIP of any chance of governing with them.
There is only one type of Socialism.But there are lots of different factions interpreting the same thing in different ways either through naivety and not understanding the malignant ideology,to those deliberately pretending they are Capitalist,as part of its ideology of infiltration not democracy.‘Naivety’ in that case also being a polite way of describing the moronic stupidity of those like many of the followers of the SWP.As opposed to those like myself and probably Benn,Heffer and Shore who confused Socialism with Nationalism and then either ditched Socialism as part of that as in my case.Or,as in the case of Benn and Heffer at least remained torn between the two ideologies.But in which National loyalty,which by definition is contained in the Nationalist ideal,was drawing them ever closer to inevitably having to ditch their supposedly Socialist principles without them even knowing it.The anti EU faction within the Labour government at the last referendum being mostly based on those lines.
While as I’ve said anyone who says they are an anti Federalist ( Nationalist ) Socialist or vice versa is at best either too naive to understand the definition of Socialism.
Or at worse they are lying as part of the typical Socialist MO of,like infiltration,creating confusion among the ranks of its opposition to get support where it shouldn’t and that applies whether it was Hitler or Sturgeon.While any or all of that could also apply in the case of the zbwits who follow the SWP.As opposed to the out campaign telling them to do one.Bearing in mind that SWP opposition to the EU and people like Merkel is about as believable as the idea that they oppose undemocratic Federal rule by Bolshevik zb’s like Balcerovicz saying punish dissent and anyone who wants to secede.
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
The economy actually went down like a lead baloon after we joined the federalist scam and stayed there ever since.Not surprising considering that we pay billions in net contributions just for the privilege of giving the Germans jobs and now transferring Stasi and Bolshevik Soviet thinking into Western Europe.So yes we get the message you lot don’t do secession without a fight just like the former Yugoslavia.Unfortunately for you if there’s even a glimmer of the 1940 spirit left here then you couldn’t have chosen a worse enemy to take on than us.Because as then we don’t like being told what to do by socialist zb’s like Hitler or zb Merkel and Balcerovicz.
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
And who says that the UK’s economy will go down the pan? Is that same economists who said that if the UK didn’t join the euro it would be finished or the same economists who didn’t see the 2007 crash coming? Not exactly got a good track record these economists out of the European country’s most affected by the crash the two who have done the best since ( Iceland and the UK ) are both out of the euro. To be honest no one can accurately predict what will happen.
Dolph you make out that all the people of the UK are interested in is the economy for a lot of us it is about democracy and the ability to self govern and get rid of politicians who fail, it has always surprised me how quick former Soviet Bloc country’s were to ditch the Soviet dictatorship for that of a European dictatorship that is increasingly run by Germany for the benefit of Germany. I am sure you heard Frau Merkal’s threats to the Eastern Europeans last autumn take more refugees or your grants will be stopped, firstly she is not in a position to make these threats yet no one told her that and secondly it is not her money yet that has not stopped her. Look at how Greece has been treated could easily be Bulgaria in the next crash!!!
There’s clearly more than one type of socialism then. Corbyn is dead against China and Russia after all, when “traditional” socialists would be communist cocklicking from the moment they became Labour Party Leader otherwise - surely?
I reckon Milliband would have won the election if he’d stood on a “take us out of the EU without a referendum” ticket, seeing as the “offer the people a referendum” chance was snatched up by Cameron, thus depriving UKIP of any chance of governing with them.
There is only one type of Socialism.But there are lots of different factions interpreting the same thing in different ways either through naivety and not understanding the malignant ideology,to those deliberately pretending they are Capitalist,as part of its ideology of infiltration not democracy.‘Naivety’ in that case also being a polite way of describing the moronic stupidity of those like many of the followers of the SWP.As opposed to those like myself and probably Benn,Heffer and Shore who confused Socialism with Nationalism and then either ditched Socialism as part of that as in my case.Or,as in the case of Benn and Heffer at least remained torn between the two ideologies.But in which National loyalty,which by definition is contained in the Nationalist ideal,was drawing them ever closer to inevitably having to ditch their supposedly Socialist principles without them even knowing it.The anti EU faction within the Labour government at the last referendum being mostly based on those lines.
While as I’ve said anyone who says they are an anti Federalist ( Nationalist ) Socialist or vice versa is at best either too naive to understand the definition of Socialism.
Or at worse they are lying as part of the typical Socialist MO of,like infiltration,creating confusion among the ranks of its opposition to get support where it shouldn’t and that applies whether it was Hitler or Sturgeon.While any or all of that could also apply in the case of the zbwits who follow the SWP.As opposed to the out campaign telling them to do one.Bearing in mind that SWP opposition to the EU and people like Merkel is about as believable as the idea that they oppose undemocratic Federal rule by Bolshevik zb’s like Balcerovicz saying punish dissent and anyone who wants to secede.
Surely it’s a bit sharp that “different factions interpreting” has made someone like Corbyn diametrically opposite to “traditional” left-wing Socialism - ie Communism.?
If Corbyn could have bitten his tongue with Kingpin and Putin - his own chances of ever becoming leader of this country would actually rise out of the single digit percentage zone…
Can somebody tell me what the difference is with capitalism then because a lot of Tories are pro EU and some are anti does that make the likes of Clark and Heseltine socialist because they’re staunch pro EU !!!
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
The economy actually went down like a lead baloon after we joined the federalist scam and stayed there ever since.Not surprising considering that we pay billions in net contributions just for the privilege of giving the Germans jobs and now transferring Stasi and Bolshevik Soviet thinking into Western Europe.So yes we get the message you lot don’t do secession without a fight just like the former Yugoslavia.Unfortunately for you if there’s even a glimmer of the 1940 spirit left here then you couldn’t have chosen a worse enemy to take on than us.Because as then we don’t like being told what to do by socialist zb’s like Hitler or zb Merkel and Balcerovicz.
If your economy was so great back in the day you wouldn’t have begged to join in first place. You economy is great thanks to EU.
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
The economy actually went down like a lead baloon after we joined the federalist scam and stayed there ever since.Not surprising considering that we pay billions in net contributions just for the privilege of giving the Germans jobs and now transferring Stasi and Bolshevik Soviet thinking into Western Europe.So yes we get the message you lot don’t do secession without a fight just like the former Yugoslavia.Unfortunately for you if there’s even a glimmer of the 1940 spirit left here then you couldn’t have chosen a worse enemy to take on than us.Because as then we don’t like being told what to do by socialist zb’s like Hitler or zb Merkel and Balcerovicz.
If your economy was so great back in the day you wouldn’t have begged to join in first place. You economy is great thanks to EU.
Think you will find that the UK’s economy did not really start to improve until the mid 80’s when the reforms that Thatcher brought in started to take affect some 10 years after we joined the EEC.
Take your rose tinted glasses off but then when you compare it to how your country was under the Soviets then of course the EU is an improvement
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
And who says that the UK’s economy will go down the pan? Is that same economists who said that if the UK didn’t join the euro it would be finished or the same economists who didn’t see the 2007 crash coming? Not exactly got a good track record these economists out of the European country’s most affected by the crash the two who have done the best since ( Iceland and the UK ) are both out of the euro. To be honest no one can accurately predict what will happen. Dolph you make out that all the people of the UK are interested in is the economy for a lot of us it is about democracy and the ability to self govern and get rid of politicians who fail, it has always surprised me how quick former Soviet Bloc country’s were to ditch the Soviet dictatorship for that of a European dictatorship that is increasingly run by Germany for the benefit of Germany. I am sure you heard Frau Merkal’s threats to the Eastern Europeans last autumn take more refugees or your grants will be stopped, firstly she is not in a position to make these threats yet no one told her that and secondly it is not her money yet that has not stopped her. Look at how Greece has been treated could easily be Bulgaria in the next crash!!!
What is democracy by UK standards? You are govern by government elected only by 24% of the voters, you have House of Lords thats is…I don’t what is but its definitely not democratic, you have more cctv’s then US, and you are nanny state like USSR…
And many more, its funny when Brits are talking about democracy, at the same time you are held by the balls from banks, insurers, landlords etc.
Greece deserve what it got. Ask yourself why all EE EU countries were against Greece saving package. Greece has outspent itself for the last 3 decades…they should have been left to bankrupt.
No sympathy for Greece.
Surely it’s a bit sharp that “different factions interpreting” has made someone like Corbyn diametrically opposite to “traditional” left-wing Socialism - ie Communism.?
If Corbyn could have bitten his tongue with Kingpin and Putin - his own chances of ever becoming leader of this country would actually rise out of the single digit percentage zone…
The tacit support by association clues are there if you want to look for them. IE his advertised stand against ‘Chinese Communism’ is just for the consumption of the domestic unions.Obviously being more convenient than having to explain why they wouldn’t be better off under the Nationalist protectionist policies of Le Pen v China than his two faced ideology.The fact is there is only one red flag and it’s same for Corbyn as it is/was for Chavez and Jinping.
mazzer:
Think you will find that the UK’s economy did not really start to improve until the mid 80’s when the reforms that Thatcher brought in started to take affect some 10 years after we joined the EEC.
Take your rose tinted glasses off but then when you compare it to how your country was under the Soviets then of course the EU is an improvement
You are absolutely wrong, Bulgaria was a lot better in many ways during Soviet times then today, even ahead of UK on many fields. EU cant be compared to USSR.
gazsa401:
Can somebody tell me what the difference is with capitalism then because a lot of Tories are pro EU and some are anti does that make the likes of Clark and Heseltine socialist because they’re staunch pro EU !!!
It’s possible for a Capitalist to be a Federalist hence the USA.With the Cons being ideologically predisposed to Federalism in the title ‘Unionist’.
It isn’t possible for a Nationalist to be Federalist.
It isn’t possible for a Socialist to be a Nationalist or therefore by definition anti Federalist because Socialism is ideologically opposed to the idea of the nation state and national borders.Hence the lie and contradiction contained in the ■■■■ Party and the SNP and a so called anti Federalist SWP.
mazzer:
Think you will find that the UK’s economy did not really start to improve until the mid 80’s when the reforms that Thatcher brought in started to take affect some 10 years after we joined the EEC.
Take your rose tinted glasses off but then when you compare it to how your country was under the Soviets then of course the EU is an improvement
You are absolutely wrong, Bulgaria was a lot better in many ways during Soviet times then today, even ahead of UK on many fields. EU cant be compared to USSR.
If the Soviet set up was so good for Bulgaria then why did you not go into a similar trade set up with them, as to the UK’s democratic system it is what we have, there was a vote several to change it but the electorate voted to keep it as it is so we have the system that has been chosen by the people, there are very democratic systems that can be said to be 100% fair PR creats weak coalition and it becomes very hard to completely remove a ruling party.
Greece ended up a basket case partly due to the EU not enforcing it’s own rules it should never have been allowed into the Euro but weak leadership by unelected commissioners in Brussels allowed them in.
If the rules were to be applied strictly neither Romania or Bulgaria would be allowed into the EU either due to their high levels of corruption and Romania’s treatment of the Roma community so no it is not a perfect world but we are where we are
mazzer:
Think you will find that the UK’s economy did not really start to improve until the mid 80’s when the reforms that Thatcher brought in started to take affect some 10 years after we joined the EEC.
Take your rose tinted glasses off but then when you compare it to how your country was under the Soviets then of course the EU is an improvement
You are absolutely wrong, Bulgaria was a lot better in many ways during Soviet times then today, even ahead of UK on many fields. EU cant be compared to USSR.
That’s exactly what I was told by the Yugoslavs during the early 1980’s .IE everything was great with cheap Russian fuel etc etc.‘Until’ Russia decided it had had enough of being taken for mugs to keep Tito’s Socialist federalist dreams alive.Just as in the case of Polish Commy zb’s getting nasty now that they think the gravy train might ( hopefully ) be about to hit the buffers if us and Le Pen can smash the Commy scam.
boredwivdrivin:
im not sure how well the Bulgari will get on , claiming their EU rights when England gives the middle finger …
but im sure u will have fun finding out !
Ha hAA haa HAR HAR
Well to be honest(not that you deserve it,but…) EU brake up will be a joke compare to USSR,we have experience, we gonna manage factory closing, money vanishing in thin air, property devaluation etc.
The “haa haa” will be on you when your economy goes down like never before and as society you have grown to be а bit spoilt.
The economy actually went down like a lead baloon after we joined the federalist scam and stayed there ever since.Not surprising considering that we pay billions in net contributions just for the privilege of giving the Germans jobs and now transferring Stasi and Bolshevik Soviet thinking into Western Europe.So yes we get the message you lot don’t do secession without a fight just like the former Yugoslavia.Unfortunately for you if there’s even a glimmer of the 1940 spirit left here then you couldn’t have chosen a worse enemy to take on than us.Because as then we don’t like being told what to do by socialist zb’s like Hitler or zb Merkel and Balcerovicz.
If your economy was so great back in the day you wouldn’t have begged to join in first place. You economy is great thanks to EU.
I’d say it’s great in spite of the EU. To suggest otherwise is to say that the entire UK economy would be trashed if it were not for 100% cheap EU imported labour…
Realistically this is now a European wide Socialist anti Socialist fight whether we’re in or out in which the only difference is that the Socialists obviously don’t trust each other.Whereas those on the Nationalist side of the argument know which side that Le Pen and Pegida are on.That’s the bit that really scaring people like that Polish Bolshevik zb and Merkel.IE Europe is now heading for a long needed stand off between the aims of those like Merkel and those like Le Pen and now isn’t the time to let the zbwits in the SWP derail that argument by letting them hijack the out campaign. 
