In or out of EU ? Poll

It’s all rather odd that the Libdems, Labour with a different leader, AND half the Tory party - seem in favour of staying in the EU.

Among the public - as I’ve said many a time - If you are in a position to benefit from the “easier EU trading” or “cheaper EU Labour force” or “lower transaction charges”… Then it makes sense for one to be “in favour” at the public level to stay in the EU.

The thing is, the vast majority of us are either indifferent to it all or hostile towards it. That’s the vast majority of the public not actually in favour in a similar manner to the way that people don’t bother to get out and vote - unless their seat is a marginal, and they feel that their vote won’t be wasted.

Pensioners are likely indifferent to issues regarding the EU. They don’t benefit from “human rights” stuff, nor “employment law” since they’ve long since retired.
Rank-and-file workers are likely hostile to the EU, as they see their jobs both disappearing, or offered only at the similar low wages that the integrating immigrant has already signed up for.
The non-integrating immigrant is far more likely to render themselves self-employed, or bring their family over and make full use of the benefits system.
That is bad enough when the immigrant is from the EU, and afforded such rights on our turf - but how many do we get arriving from the eu - but not originally from anywhere within it at all?

Distill the two, and huge inroads will be made into this “crisis” as the social problem that it is.

Both Labour and Tory have been making noises that equate being “pro out” with somehow being “racist” towards immigrants because they see the entire UKIP argument as only being about “controlling our borders” rather than the sheer money wasting that was the argument that got myself on board with the “out” camp.

Every pound this country wastes abroad - means another pound taken off the rest of us in continued austerity that otherwise would not be necessary at all.

Forgetting “closing our borders” for a minute - I’m in favour of cutting the foreign aid budget to zero, foreign donation bribes to governments that then rebuke us - to zero - and most importantly our EU net contributions - to zero.

We could do all three of these things without leaving the EU - but I doubt very much if the EU would want to have us stay in - if we were no longer their “Grosse Insel” cash cow.

Greece had exactly the same choice - but Tsipras bottled it at the last minute, much to the disgust of Veroufakis who promptly resigned…

In the end, it will be “continued austerity” that will very likely swing the “Undecided” faction on which way to vote in any forthcoming referendum.
No doubt our government will engineer it so that “Yehh! Austerity has ended just in time!” - or at least that’s what the lying barstewards would have us believe… :imp:

If Austerity has taken a huge lunge for the worse, then Farage’s argument that we could bail ourselves out of austerity by simply ceasing to bay the Buggers of Brussels - carries a LOT more weight, and may will win the “Out” campaign then and there!

No WONDER Carney and Osbourne are coming into the new year with some trepidation!

Interest rates are going nowhere any time soon - I’ve been saying it for the past 5 years - and I’m still being proven right day by day.
The amount of money I’ve made from being right on this single issue is approaching £100k by this point - so I’ve got no complaints at being able to play the lies for all their worth…

We’re only told “rates will rise soon!” - to sell more otherwise worthless “fixed rate mortgages” you see. If you knew rates were going nowhere for another 5 years - you’d take a lifetime Bank of England base rate tracker out - and sit on it - wouldn’t you? :sunglasses: :grimacing:

Dolph:
the ban might be beneficial, people will stop working for minimum wage, because without tax credits they will not be able to sustain living conditions. So people will refuse to work for peanuts, does making employers to raise wages. Or Im thinking wrongly :bulb:

You’re thinking correctly in that in work benefits just pander to low wage employment. :wink:

‘But’ you’ll defeat the object of removing them if we maintain an open door immigrant worker regime.IE we just end up with the same situation of an over supplied labour market which then collapses wage levels. :unamused:

Winseer:
It’s all rather odd that the Libdems, Labour with a different leader, AND half the Tory party - seem in favour of staying in the EU.

The big question is what is actually stopping Cameron from renaging on the ‘referendum’ promise anyway bearing in mind that his support across parliament for staying in outweighs the Con Euro Sceptic faction.Even if that means losing his Euro Sceptic faction to UKIP in which case they all have to face a by election.In which Scameron just probably gets some more compliant MP’s back.It’s probably only at that point where we’d see exactly where the country stands. :bulb:

Somehow I think that’s probably going to be a more likely scenario.

Carryfast:

Winseer:
It’s all rather odd that the Libdems, Labour with a different leader, AND half the Tory party - seem in favour of staying in the EU.

The big question is what is actually stopping Cameron from renaging on the ‘referendum’ promise anyway bearing in mind that his support across parliament for staying in outweighs the Con Euro Sceptic faction.Even if that means losing his Euro Sceptic faction to UKIP in which case they all have to face a by election.In which Scameron just probably gets some more compliant MP’s back.It’s probably only at that point where we’d see exactly where the country stands. :bulb:

Somehow I think that’s probably going to be a more likely scenario.

He won’t hold the referendum - unless he is confident of backing the right sided campaign. I’m not entirely convinced he’ll actually come down in favour of the “In” campaign as yet. He could be playing an absolute blinder of a feint here - and intends taking us out very suddenly and quickly - before the EU get a chance to stop him, once they realize that he’s been plotting against them all along. :open_mouth:

…Or I could be wrong, and Cameron is actually the 100% ■■■■■■ we all think he is rather than the 75% that I think he is. :unamused:

Not much is being said about how much the Pound has been sliding on the forex markets these past few weeks… What with all the bad news being about “somewhere in the EU” right now - one would think that if the pound were to fall, it still wouldn’t be falling as fast as the Euro. Not true alas. It’s as if China were pulling it’s long-held “sterling prop-up fund” out of the country as we speak…
Being the very astute gamblers the Chinese are - I wonder if they know something just over the Horizon regarding the UK that we’re not yet aware of yet?

There’s no danger of interest rates rising in the EU nor in the UK - so I don’t think it’s that. Even if the UK kept rates down, and the EU were expected to hike first now - the weakness looks overdone already.
Interstingly, the weakness of the pound makes Chinese steel more expensive - and would therefore justify the government stepping in and saving our steel industry which only seems to be on it’s knees about the previously less favourable exchange rate which is fast disappearing now. It would be a shame if we threw our hand in - a hand before being dealt a proverbial pat straight flush eh? :exclamation:

Winseer:

Carryfast:

Winseer:
It’s all rather odd that the Libdems, Labour with a different leader, AND half the Tory party - seem in favour of staying in the EU.

The big question is what is actually stopping Cameron from renaging on the ‘referendum’ promise anyway bearing in mind that his support across parliament for staying in outweighs the Con Euro Sceptic faction.Even if that means losing his Euro Sceptic faction to UKIP in which case they all have to face a by election.In which Scameron just probably gets some more compliant MP’s back.It’s probably only at that point where we’d see exactly where the country stands. :bulb:

Somehow I think that’s probably going to be a more likely scenario.

He won’t hold the referendum - unless he is confident of backing the right sided campaign. I’m not entirely convinced he’ll actually come down in favour of the “In” campaign as yet. He could be playing an absolute blinder of a feint here - and intends taking us out very suddenly and quickly - before the EU get a chance to stop him, once they realize that he’s been plotting against them all along. :open_mouth:

…Or I could be wrong, and Cameron is actually the 100% ■■■■■■ . :unamused:

I’d bet more on that idea and the scenario of him preferring to take on the Cons Euro Sceptic faction with an ultimatum of support ‘postponement’ ( cancellation ) of the referendum or defect to UKIP and face a by election.

As for the value of the pound.Bearing in mind it isn’t actually enough to buy a Sunday tabloid newspaper,probably because it’s now a currency backed by nothing but smoke and mirrors based on a service economy dependent on net imports of everything from energy to manufactured goods.It’s just a matter of time until people see that the Emperor has no clothes in that regard. :bulb:

gazsa401:
0

I don’t know about there good economy but it’s expensive in the Scandinavian countries.

gazsa401:
0

  1. They are members of Schengen, does heaving open border.
  2. They abide by EU rules in order to sell/trade with EU.
  3. They MUST follow the core principles of the union - free movement of capital and labor.
  4. They pay big contribution to the EU as well.

Do you like what they have? Do you want the same? :grimacing:

Once upon a time you only “Lost” as a country when you went to war with another country - and lost that war.

Nowdays, you lose when you’re not losing a war, and dare not ever actually go to war to “win it back”. :bulb:

Someone explain to me again WHY we’ve handed so much power away to Germany in particular?
Also, how can anyone resign as foreign secretary - and be made a bloody Lord FFS?

had a leaflet/junk mail delivered by the PO today .

"europe & you " printed by some outfit called :: strongerin.co.uk

doesnt have any positive message regarding staying in , just alot of scare stories and a page attacking those crazies the UKIP .

key facts it says (and i paraphrase for brevity):

1 > 3 million jobs are linked to trade with EU
2 > EU means lower prices in shops
3 > EU costs EACH household £1 / day
4 > EU arrest warrant makes us safer
5 > 200000 businesses trade with EU
6 > UK gets £66M/day inward investment from EU

it also mentions something about capping mobile call charges and EU being responsible for low cost flights

AND … thats it . a bit bloody thin isnt it

anybody else get this interesting literature ■■

Dolph:

gazsa401:
0

  1. They are members of Schengen, does heaving open border.
  2. They abide by EU rules in order to sell/trade with EU.
  3. They MUST follow the core principles of the union - free movement of capital and labor.
  4. They pay big contribution to the EU as well.

Do you like what they have? Do you want the same? :grimacing:

IMHO Be out completely. The EU needs us more than we need them.
The (not so) Common Agricultural Policy has dismantled the most efficient agricultural industry in favour of part time peasant farmers.
Cast your mind back to 1987. There was a milk surplus on the continent (remember all that butter sold off cheap to the Russians?
Only much later was it made available to EEC citizens.)
There was a milk quota system introduced. Now that would have been alright had it been applied equally across Europe.
What happened? Mainland Europe got a quota about equal to what they were producing. Britain had a 17% cut imposed and Ireland had a +17% quota.
What was that about?
Why do French farmers have subsidies over and above what everyone else gets?
Also, for a free trade area, there’s an awful lot of protectionism going on in 3 of the original 6 member states.

No this club is as bent as a nine bob note and is beyond reform

Dolph:

gazsa401:
0

  1. They are members of Schengen, does heaving open border.
  2. They abide by EU rules in order to sell/trade with EU.
  3. They MUST follow the core principles of the union - free movement of capital and labor.
  4. They pay big contribution to the EU as well.

Do you like what they have? Do you want the same? :grimacing:

1.Not exactly.Feel free to drive straight through without being prepared to stop and show your passport and pay any applicable road tolls etc etc on entry and exit. :smiling_imp: :laughing: At least in the case of Switzerland.

google.co.uk/maps/@46.731606 … 312!8i6656

2.They only ‘abide’ by EU rules because the EU is blackmailing them to do so from a position of trade deficit strength.

3.See 2.

4.See 2 and 3.

We rejoin EFTA then suddenly EFTA becomes much stronger regards that EU economic blackmail because it’s now negotiating from a position of trade deficit strength.IE you hit us we hit Germany. :bulb: :unamused:

thetrumpet.com/article/11370 … mmigration

boredwivdrivin:
had a leaflet/junk mail delivered by the PO today .

"europe & you " printed by some outfit called :: strongerin.co.uk

anybody else get this interesting literature ■■

No but if I do I’ll post it back to them without a stamp saying that I’m a UKIP voter. :laughing:

boredwivdrivin:
had a leaflet/junk mail delivered by the PO today .

"europe & you " printed by some outfit called :: strongerin.co.uk

doesnt have any positive message regarding staying in , just alot of scare stories and a page attacking those crazies the UKIP .

key facts it says (and i paraphrase for brevity):

1 > 3 million jobs are linked to trade with EU Would we be so in favour if all those jobs were in banking and finance - bearing in mind that is the sector where “trade” sloshes the most money about?
2 > EU means lower prices in shops The current long-term deflation is being imported alongside cheap labour. THIS more than anything else is New Labour’s legacy from the sea change that
3 > EU costs EACH household £1 / day “opening the floodgates to immigration” did. Those not earning don’t pay the £1 a day - leaving it for the working population to pay for those who don’t work.
4 > EU arrest warrant makes us safer The EU arrest warrant has yet to be used to impeach a runaway banker or politician.
5 > 200000 businesses trade with EU They’ll continue to trade with the EU whilst we continue to not actually be at full war with it.
6 > UK gets £66M/day inward investment from EU The EU buying anything British on the cheap - does not constitute “inward investment”. A lot of any £66m a day or any other arbitary figure is “counting the
same money twice, thrice, and more” like some kind of cash feedback related to banking once again.
it also mentions something about capping mobile call charges and EU being responsible for low cost flights

AND … thats it . a bit bloody thin isnt it

anybody else get this interesting literature ■■

they’ll b some scare mongering from in the campaign. …foooooook em out out out …all the way I’m English not foòooòking European never av been never will be …

this is interesting . you have to scroll down a bit as cant cut and paste

yougov.co.uk/news/2016/01/06/bi … ewspaper-/

this poll shows UKIPers DO NOT wholly endorse leaving EU . they are polled at 28% IN and 72% out .

how come ■■ maybe its just , as previously mentioned , there will be no role for them after exit ?

also shows Green Party polling 68% IN and 32% OUT .

now im sure that will be a big surprise to CF ! altho not to anybody who knows about green party politics . it being the broadest church of all parties . comprising socialists , environmentalists , liberals , trots , anarchists , and probably a few Fordists too .

in fact until GP was taken over by idiot liberals the party was probably wholly against EU , even tho EU has been the most successful organisation for environmental protection in history .

but that was back in the lucid days of realising that the greatest threat to biodiversity , human wellbeing and sustainability of planet is …

mankinds overpopulation , and letting them wander wherever they choose .

but sadly policies of johnies for africa and banning the catholics have now been suppressed by wishy washy yellow liberals .

but does show that Farage needs to get his house in order , and make sure he doesnt offend normal people into not voting

boredwivdrivin:
this poll shows UKIPers DO NOT wholly endorse leaving EU . they are polled at 28% IN and 72% out .

how come ■■ maybe its just , as previously mentioned , there will be no role for them after exit ?

Or ironically possibly pro EU but disillusioned anti Cameron Con vote.In which case that would obviously have no net effect on the anti v pro EU referendum vote.Which is basically all about anti Federalist v Federalist and has no effect whatsoever on UKIP’s other domestic policies which,by definition,obviously remain after and regardless of any EU referendum result.

There are ever more parallels with this EU issue with the American question in the 1770’s.
America opted for independence in the end - because they thought Britain wasn’t listening. They weren’t. George III only “Let America Go” in the end - because he didn’t want to end up bankrupting the country, and possibly being attacked by his own subjects. Looking at what happened a few short years later across the channel - I’d say History proved him right to make such a huge laydown at the end of the day.

People like Thomas Paine & Ben Franklin - tried to keep the colonies in the Empire, much as Cameron appears to be trying to keep us in the EU right now.
When it became apparent that the only way the colonies could get a good deal for it’s own people - was by leaving outright - the two men signed up with the leaving side rather than the old country.

I reckon Cameron would gain a LOT of respect, and easily win the next election - if he took us out of the EU on his own terms, rather than by losing a referendum that he says he wants to “win” as it stands…
We really need our leader to stand with the people on this. If a referendum says “Out” by say, 60/40 margin - the EU will simply offer Cameron an extra concession, and ask he hold another referendum - “to get the right result this time” in a similar fashion to what happened in Ireland a few years back. This blatant “Bribe” would not be possible IF Cameron were on the “OUT” side before the referendum took place…

Let’s hope he doesn’t get this “good deal” he speaks of for the near future then - and more importantly, is honest enough to realize that he “hasn’t got it”.
Stand with your people Cameron - and stop being a Brussels Lickcock. :exclamation:

Winseer:
There are ever more parallels with this EU issue with the American question in the 1770’s.
America opted for independence in the end - because they thought Britain wasn’t listening. They weren’t. George III only “Let America Go” in the end - because he didn’t want to end up bankrupting the country, and possibly being attacked by his own subjects. Looking at what happened a few short years later across the channel - I’d say History proved him right to make such a huge laydown at the end of the day.

People like Thomas Paine & Ben Franklin - tried to keep the colonies in the Empire, much as Cameron appears to be trying to keep us in the EU right now.
When it became apparent that the only way the colonies could get a good deal for it’s own people - was by leaving outright - the two men signed up with the leaving side rather than the old country.

I reckon Cameron would gain a LOT of respect, and easily win the next election - if he took us out of the EU on his own terms, rather than by losing a referendum that he says he wants to “win” as it stands…
We really need our leader to stand with the people on this. If a referendum says “Out” by say, 60/40 margin - the EU will simply offer Cameron an extra concession, and ask he hold another referendum - “to get the right result this time” in a similar fashion to what happened in Ireland a few years back. This blatant “Bribe” would not be possible IF Cameron were on the “OUT” side before the referendum took place…

Let’s hope he doesn’t get this “good deal” he speaks of for the near future then - and more importantly, is honest enough to realize that he “hasn’t got it”.
Stand with your people Cameron - and stop being a Brussels Lickcock. :exclamation:

Firstly it will probably take a miracle to get that type of margin.As for Cameron there’s no realistic chance of him being neutral on the internal Con EU Europhile/Federalist Euro Sceptic/anti federalist split let alone change sides.

While now is the time for Farage to raise the question as to an out referendum vote being binding and rejection of any further EU involvement in the question of our EU membership from that point.I’d guess the answer to that question would be the key.

As for Cameron everything points to him now playing for time with the most likely outcome being a ‘postponement’ of the so called ‘referendum promise’.Probably because he knows that he stands more chance of staying in power as Con leader,let alone avoiding a massive split in the Party,by doing that.Than possibly losing the promised referendum to the out campaign resulting in an unavoidable alliance between a stronger vindicated UKIP and his own Euro Sceptics v Labour and the SNP.What is certain is that he’ll lose all credibiliy with both his Europhile Cons and Eurosceptic side if he tries to change sides by joining the Euro Sceptics.

My bet is that he’s now hopelessly tied to Corbyn and the SNP in a pro EU alliance against his own Eurosceptics and UKIP in a pro EU campaign that he can’t afford to lose and in which losing,let alone changing sides to the out campaign,isn’t even an option for him.Even if by some miracle he isn’t the pro EU federalist ■■■■■■ that I think he is.

IE he faces the clear choice between the lesser evil of the fallout in renaging on the referendum promise v the result on his credibility and the Europhile Cons if he goes for the referendum and the in campaign loses it. :bulb:

If the economy improves for rank and file workers - chances are we’ll stay in. No one rocks the boat when it’s plain sailing. You don’t talk in the condemned cell of “rope” either, mind. :bulb:

We lose money to the EU. As long as individuals don’t “feel like they are losing” - they’ll be happy to continue doing the same.

At street level - the type of person who’ll vote “Stay in the EU” is the same type of person who thinks you can win money when you buy a scratchcard.
“One in five wins - that’s a real chance!” they’ll bleat…

How many tickets before you get a real win though? - one that leaves you ahead over what you’ve spent so far… my definition of winning…

Buy 10 tickets = win £20 on one of them… YES that would be a win - if only it had a real chance of happening.
Buy 10 tickets and have two of them win £1 (the real meaning of “1 in five wins”) - That’s “stealth losing” as I’ve described above.

No statistics are available as to “what’s the chance of getting a winning ticket” - if “wins” of upto double the ticket price were all excluded…

I suspect it’s something like “one in 548” of getting a £20 winner - put if that way.

Tell a person who’s buying scratchcards that they are donking money away - and they won’t believe you.
Tell that same person we’ll be better off leaving the EU - and they probably won’t believe that either.
Therein lies Cameron’s best chance of winning the referendum. It only remains for it to be held at the “right time of the economic cycle” then. :bulb: