Farage might be considered “unelectable” in a general election - but UKIP “won” the EU election - which people seem to forget.
Farage’s strongest suit perhaps is his incorruptibility. He’s quite happy to be the “Turkey voting for Christmas”.
Should the “OUT” campaign win, then he would lose his MEP job, and would end up out of work entirely.
Should the “OUT” campaign win, then there would be no need to ever vote for UKIP again - would there?
UKIPS 4m voters are up for grabs though… Either Cameron or Corbyn might yet surprise us all, and suddenly adopt the “OUT” stance… They’d take UKIP’s 4m voters - providing they made sure the Brexit was fully implemented before the next general election. How hard can THAT be?
Whoever oversees the brexit therefore - automatically wins the next election. Cameron might even realize what a huge mandate that would give him as 11th hour leader of the “OUT” campaign, and refuse to move over for Osbourne, choosing to get rid of him in an assassin’s cabinet re-shuffle instead, where Boris gets Osbourne’s job, and Theresa May stays exactly where she is, on a right-ring law & order traditional Tory ticket.
Should Corbyn jump into the driving seat for the “OUT” campaign, then the IN campaign might actually win, as the whole referendum would turn into a “keep the loony left out of office” - because there’s no way that Corbyn would let Farage anywhere near it.
May 7th Last year showed us that Farage is bleeding away former New Labour supporters rather than the anticipated “Middle England” Tory voters. Nothing has happened as yet to suggest that Middle England are suddenly going to swing towards a nationalist bent.
Winseer:
Farage might be considered “unelectable” in a general election - but UKIP “won” the EU election - which people seem to forget.
Farage’s strongest suit perhaps is his incorruptibility. He’s quite happy to be the “Turkey voting for Christmas”.
Should the “OUT” campaign win, then he would lose his MEP job, and would end up out of work entirely.
Should the “OUT” campaign win, then there would be no need to ever vote for UKIP again - would there?
UKIPS 4m voters are up for grabs though… Either Cameron or Corbyn might yet surprise us all, and suddenly adopt the “OUT” stance… They’d take UKIP’s 4m voters - providing they made sure the Brexit was fully implemented before the next general election. How hard can THAT be?
Whoever oversees the brexit therefore - automatically wins the next election. Cameron might even realize what a huge mandate that would give him as 11th hour leader of the “OUT” campaign, and refuse to move over for Osbourne, choosing to get rid of him in an assassin’s cabinet re-shuffle instead, where Boris gets Osbourne’s job, and Theresa May stays exactly where she is, on a right-ring law & order traditional Tory ticket.
Should Corbyn jump into the driving seat for the “OUT” campaign, then the IN campaign might actually win, as the whole referendum would turn into a “keep the loony left out of office” - because there’s no way that Corbyn would let Farage anywhere near it.
May 7th Last year showed us that Farage is bleeding away former New Labour supporters rather than the anticipated “Middle England” Tory voters. Nothing has happened as yet to suggest that Middle England are suddenly going to swing towards a nationalist bent.
Firstly the UKIP vote is as much based on its,admittedly now watered down, immigration stance and anti global warmist energy policy.With ‘Middle England’ in the south east at least certainly having an interest depending on viewpoint concerning development policy.In which the North as usual wants to turn the south east into a massive housing estate,among other airport and road infrastructure increases,while keeping their own place an under developed wilderness.
IE if anyone wants to vote for an anti immigration,anti global warmist,anti south east airport expansion,anti green belt development,agenda,who do we vote for ?.Being anti Federalist/EU just being an essential bonus in that case.The fact that Farage didn’t at least put Cameron out of office in the GE being more a case of Cameron’s propaganda machine creating fear of a Lab/SNP government among UKIP’s potential vote and an electoral system that has no relationship between votes and seats…
I understand that Farage is not universally popular, but as an advocate for Brexit, I can’t think of anyone who is better. The Tories are deeply worried about the threat from Farage, they won’t stand for seeing him lead such an important campaign. I find it strange that Farage has demolished Clegg and now Jones in public debates about the EU and yet the Brexit campaigns seem reluctant to have him as their front man. You won’t see Cameron being stupid enough to debate with him.
Rival politicians seem so disturbed by Farage they often feel the need to shout over him, as Jones did in this debate. The act of guilty people when their lies are challenged or exposed. And for those like me, who see the hand of tptb everywhere in the IN campaign, consider the role of the adjudicator. He seemed to shut down the arguments just as they were developing, but then kept arguing and chipping-in on behalf of Jones.
Every debate there is, everyone I talk to, every radio station phone-in suggests a large percentage of the population want out of the EU, and yet the polls consistently show a neck and neck race. I am skeptical enough to believe that this referendum could be postponed at the last minute, if it looks like OUT is going to win, on the grounds of Call Me Dave having fought the good fight, against all the odds, and gained promises of a new treaty at the eleventh hour. Don’t underestimate the desire of the IN crowd to keep us in - no matter what.
Stanley Knife:
I understand that Farage is not universally popular, but as an advocate for Brexit, I can’t think of anyone who is better. The Tories are deeply worried about the threat from Farage, they won’t stand for seeing him lead such an important campaign.
Rival politicians seem so disturbed by Farage
Every debate there is, everyone I talk to, every radio station phone-in suggests a large percentage of the population want out of the EU, and yet the polls consistently show a neck and neck race. I am skeptical enough to believe that this referendum could be postponed at the last minute, if it looks like OUT is going to win, on the grounds of Call Me Dave having fought the good fight, against all the odds, and gained promises of a new treaty at the eleventh hour. Don’t underestimate the desire of the IN crowd to keep us in - no matter what.
^ This.
Which leaves the obvious question why is Carswell so keen to see Farage thrown out as UKIP leader and why did Carswell seem to leave it so late to jump ship and join UKIP.
No need to send text message in order to support leave campaign. You can also buy t-shirts, mugs, pens and prints on the website from the poster.
Someone wants to make money from the people again!
lets hope your faith in Farage will prove to be justified !
it may not be so easy to shine when confronted by a more robust politician , and getting the votes from liberal metropolitan areas may prove more tricky than dear old eurosceptic Wales .
a big plus point for farage is the popular right wing attack dog press , mail & sun , have always been pretty kind to him . they probably more likely to smear and lie about pro euro Tories than Farage .
but there is no doubt he needs a human to campaign with him as 28% wont win it , and he will need to recognise that he needs to appeal to ALL outers from across political spectrum , socialists and greens right through to his own party .
What gets me is that people will still support an incumbent who’s got a track record of lying - but not an “unknown quantity” who at very worst - is no worse than our incumbents… But has a lot of upside if they keep their promises regarding pretty much everything correct they’ve ever said in the past…
If we stay in the EU, we’ll eventually be roped into a another war in the middle east, and of course be expected to take in unlimited amounts of people who have nothing but contempt for our way of life at worst, or just come here to scrounge our benefits and public services at best.
I can’t imagine what could possibly happen to sell me on “Voting to stay IN”.
A gun held to my head? - It would have to be the real thing - a “idle threat” just won’t cut it…
Winseer:
What gets me is that people will still support an incumbent who’s got a track record of lying - but not an “unknown quantity” who at very worst - is no worse than our incumbents… But has a lot of upside if they keep their promises regarding pretty much everything correct they’ve ever said in the past…
If we stay in the EU, we’ll eventually be roped into a another war in the middle east, and of course be expected to take in unlimited amounts of people who have nothing but contempt for our way of life at worst, or just come here to scrounge our benefits and public services at best.
I can’t imagine what could possibly happen to sell me on “Voting to stay IN”.
A gun held to my head? - It would have to be the real thing - a “idle threat” just won’t cut it…
Really? Its EU fault Britain went to the Middle East for war and not your best buddies US of A aka NATO■■? I can’t believe how Brits can accuse EU for all British mistakes or wrongdoings.
Winseer:
What gets me is that people will still support an incumbent who’s got a track record of lying - but not an “unknown quantity” who at very worst - is no worse than our incumbents… But has a lot of upside if they keep their promises regarding pretty much everything correct they’ve ever said in the past…
If we stay in the EU, we’ll eventually be roped into a another war in the middle east, and of course be expected to take in unlimited amounts of people who have nothing but contempt for our way of life at worst, or just come here to scrounge our benefits and public services at best.
I can’t imagine what could possibly happen to sell me on “Voting to stay IN”.
A gun held to my head? - It would have to be the real thing - a “idle threat” just won’t cut it…
Really? Its EU fault Britain went to the Middle East for war and not your best buddies US of A aka NATO■■? I can’t believe how Brits can accuse EU for all British mistakes or wrongdoings.
Probably because the EU is a corrupt club run by failed politicians
Winseer:
What gets me is that people will still support an incumbent who’s got a track record of lying - but not an “unknown quantity” who at very worst - is no worse than our incumbents… But has a lot of upside if they keep their promises regarding pretty much everything correct they’ve ever said in the past…
If we stay in the EU, we’ll eventually be roped into a another war in the middle east, and of course be expected to take in unlimited amounts of people who have nothing but contempt for our way of life at worst, or just come here to scrounge our benefits and public services at best.
I can’t imagine what could possibly happen to sell me on “Voting to stay IN”.
A gun held to my head? - It would have to be the real thing - a “idle threat” just won’t cut it…
Really? Its EU fault Britain went to the Middle East for war and not your best buddies US of A aka NATO■■? I can’t believe how Brits can accuse EU for all British mistakes or wrongdoings.
Ironically NATO and the EU are more likely to drag us into an EU v Russia war over the EU’s designs on Ukraine.
The Middle East issue was more about Russia arming people like Saddam to the teeth to threaten western strategic oil supply interests with Israel already having stopped the zb’s from taking them out in 1973.Which is why we had to stop him.As for our bleeding heart attitudes to the result of all that that’s just a case of telling the socialists here to do one and tell the Islamists to sort out their own zb it’s not our problem.With disarming the savages being part of that.Instead of which we’ve still got Russia trying to give Iran nukes and America allowing the Saudis and their IS sub contract army to run riot across the Middle East and Europe.As opposed to nuking Raqqa as a warning shot.
Dolph:
Carryfast, if there is Socialist country in Europe, thats UK. You are Socialist nanny state
Socialist and open borders are oxymoron, I grew up in Socialist country, Peoples Republic of Bulgaria, where borders were secured by fence and regular army with AK’s, MG’s and RPG’s guarding them. Where you cant even go to the border, 30-40km before that you would be stopped. My father had to get special police permission(this is how it looked socbg.com/2013/12/%D0%BE%D1%82%D … D0%B7.html) in order for us to go fishing close to Greek border.
There is nothing socialist about EU borders. I cant believe Im saying this, but I agree with boredwivdrivin regarding Socialism.
It’s a bit more complicated than that.Firstly the idea of the Eastern Bloc Iron Curtain etc was all about the the logical conclusion of what happens when Socialism tries to hide the benefits of the Capitalist system from its naive followers.Nothing to do with the ideology of Soviet type Federalism which was just a corruption of the usual socialist ideology of internationalism.
On that note trust me Corbyn is a Socialist and therefore ideologically internationalist ( actually anti nationalist ) in just the same way as Merkel and Junker are and anyone else who labels themselves a socialist and understands the definition of the word.While anyone who thinks that it’s possible to be ‘loosely’ socialist to the point of being in favour of national borders is either too naive to understand the meaning of socialism or they are lying.
There’s different takes of socialism and I’m far from naive to understand the meaning of it
As in most political/ethical forms of society there’s different meanings and views
Not one size fits all
Winseer:
What gets me is that people will still support an incumbent who’s got a track record of lying - but not an “unknown quantity” who at very worst - is no worse than our incumbents… But has a lot of upside if they keep their promises regarding pretty much everything correct they’ve ever said in the past…
If we stay in the EU, we’ll eventually be roped into a another war in the middle east, and of course be expected to take in unlimited amounts of people who have nothing but contempt for our way of life at worst, or just come here to scrounge our benefits and public services at best.
I can’t imagine what could possibly happen to sell me on “Voting to stay IN”.
A gun held to my head? - It would have to be the real thing - a “idle threat” just won’t cut it…
Really? Its EU fault Britain went to the Middle East for war and not your best buddies US of A aka NATO■■? I can’t believe how Brits can accuse EU for all British mistakes or wrongdoings.
The EU, NATO and the “Special Relationship” are all intertwined. If we leave the EU - we’ll actually have a good shot at reducing American influences in this country as well.
Imagine: NOT having to go to war when America demands us to via NATO as they do… See how scared they are that “we might leave the EU” and how they veil some threats of their own about it…
Even Blair had no qualms about putting the American Hampton in his mouth in the end…
gazsa401:
There’s different takes of socialism and I’m far from naive to understand the meaning of it
As in most political/ethical forms of society there’s different meanings and views
Not one size fits all
That contained in the link I posted is Socialist immigration policy no ifs no buts.As I said anyone who says different either doesn’t understand Socialism or is lying as part of Socialist infiltration doctrine.
In view of that why don’t you think that it’s possible to create the type of ‘fairer’ society which you’re calling for under the capitalist system ?.Bearing in mind the aims of Fordism as opposed to the Thatcherite/Victorian class based model.
Also bearing in mind that you say that you agree with the idea of national borders and the nation state.You therefore don’t believe in socialist ideology concerning freedom of movement based on wealth distribution which calls for the movement of those from poorer countries to the richer ones.While conveniently forgetting that it’s the Capitalist system which made us richer.
In which case what’s wrong with the idea,of a Fordist Capitalist system,using protectionism to maintain domestic wage levels and employment.With national borders used,to stop immigration being used as a method of increasing the labour supply thereby defeating the object of the Fordist system.Not to mention all the resulting cultural,demographic and societal issues.
That is the difference between Le Pen and Nationalism v Corbyn and Socialism.In which case why would you view the former as being worse for the working class therefore ‘right wing’ as opposed to Socialism having the monopoly on what’s good for the working class therefore ‘left wing’.
IE you’re being naively led down the Socialist path because what we’ve actually got is the ‘wrong type’ of Capitalism.Not that Socialism can/will fix anything.
Winseer:
The EU, NATO and the “Special Relationship” are all intertwined. If we leave the EU - we’ll actually have a good shot at reducing American influences in this country as well.
Imagine: NOT having to go to war when America demands us to via NATO as they do… See how scared they are that “we might leave the EU” and how they veil some threats of their own about it…
Even Blair had no qualms about putting the American Hampton in his mouth in the end…
To be fair if America was all about taking us into wars to suit itself we’d have been with them in Vietnam.
America’s reasons for not wanting us to leave the EU have more to do with its own internal fears that the anti Federalist v Federalist argument is rightly still ongoing in its own place and Seccession within the EU can only add to those fears,of the Federalists,at home.
While our involvement in Iraq is obviously a matter of argument among even ourselves.In which the supporters of it would rightly say what was the alternative given an ever increasingly stronger and aggressive Russian backed Iraq in the region ?.
Corbyn isn’t socialist. He doesn’t like China or Russia, has failed to denounce everything American too, and seems to be content with calling everyone else crap - whilst not explaining what he’d do differently himself.
He could have called a three line whip on the Syria vote, and then held by-elections for all those Labour MPs that would happily get de-selected and throw in their jobs just to make a point.
Corbyn could then have had the party he wanted and needed - one full of leftie sychophants rather than “middle ground” big hitters like Hilary Benn.
There’s never been any sense in throwing away one’s political career over some foreign policy aspect one disagrees with. If it had been a three line whip - Benn would have fallen in line upon pain of being de-selected like everyone else…
Pragmatism concentrates the mind more than principals - when one’s job is on the line.
Even Julius Caesar didn’t actually ask Brutus & Co to carry his bags into the Senate for him!
The half-heated re-shuffle purge is too little to solve the problem he now has in the parliamentary Labour party, and too much to appease those moderates who have now decided to get rid of Corbyn first chance they get.
Corbyn is currently 4/6on to never face a general election. Bearing in mind there’s always a chance Cameron could call an early one - the suggestion is that Corbyn won’t even last as long as Cameron post-referendum!
Cameron, of course, does not wish to precipitate Corbyn’s downfall too soon though - it would help his own re-election chances no end if he could get Corbyn to obligingly pace along, and duly fall at the last as is expected of him.
Winseer:
Corbyn isn’t socialist. He doesn’t like China or Russia, has failed to denounce everything American too, and seems to be content with calling everyone else crap - whilst not explaining what he’d do differently himself.
He could have called a three line whip on the Syria vote, and then held by-elections for all those Labour MPs that would happily get de-selected and throw in their jobs just to make a point.
Corbyn could then have had the party he wanted and needed - one full of leftie sychophants rather than “middle ground” big hitters like Hilary Benn.
There’s never been any sense in throwing away one’s political career over some foreign policy aspect one disagrees with. If it had been a three line whip - Benn would have fallen in line upon pain of being de-selected like everyone else…
Pragmatism concentrates the mind more than principals - when one’s job is on the line.
Even Julius Caesar didn’t actually ask Brutus & Co to carry his bags into the Senate for him!
The half-heated re-shuffle purge is too little to solve the problem he now has in the parliamentary Labour party, and too much to appease those moderates who have now decided to get rid of Corbyn first chance they get.
Corbyn is currently 4/6on to never face a general election. Bearing in mind there’s always a chance Cameron could call an early one - the suggestion is that Corbyn won’t even last as long as Cameron post-referendum!
Cameron, of course, does not wish to precipitate Corbyn’s downfall too soon though - it would help his own re-election chances no end if he could get Corbyn to obligingly pace along, and duly fall at the last as is expected of him.
The ‘Labour Party’ really is in its last dying throes having been torn apart by Socialism when its actually a Le Pen type Nationalist Labour Party that we need.I’d guess that there’s more chance of Farage and Benn creating the alliance we’ll need for that than Cameron and the Cons surviving an out referendum vote. Which is why the chances are that he’ll ‘postpone’ the referendum at the last minute assuming Carswell etc ( and borewivdrivin’s ‘anti EU Socialists’ ) can’t derail the out campaign first.
Let’s have our referendum, leave the EU, and take Poland, & the Scandanavian countries with us - to form our own version of the EU.
(1) These countries are predominantly Christian/Atheist as are we in the UK
(2) These country’s ordinary peoples all speak good English from the start
(3) We work over there, they work over here - we all get along. Nip the Islamic invasion in the bud now - and we can keep the woman-oppressing drink-banning other-faith-persecuting rabble out once and for all - by shutting the entire border with the current EU off at once…
(4) None of us like being in the EU, and some have never joined to start with.
(5) We were allied in WWII AGAINST that damned country trying to rule it all now.
Once set up, there’s even a chance that France will pack it in with Brussels, and cross the floor to be part of the success story that is the NORTHERN Europe…
France is the fulcrum in all this of course - not the UK. They’ve had to put up with actually being in the Euro currency, not being able to print their way out of depression despite China ensuring that no amount of Euros sold will ever push it’s exchange rate down much…
Let’s have our referendum, leave the EU, and take Poland, & the Scandanavian countries with us - to form our own version of the EU.
Sweden is going to throw a spanner in the works of that idea while EFTA has always been there for anyone who doesn’t like the Federalist EU Reich.Realistically us re joining EFTA and then it re negotiating its relationship with the EU from a position of strength is the most realistic option.In all cases the need to reserve the right to be able to control trade by way of quotas and tarriffs to maintain trade balance and the right to control immigration needs to be there.
) can’t derail the out campaign first. 
