In or out of EU ? Poll

It’s about time the Europhiles got the message - with half their party being “Eurosceptics” and half the public too - a decisive polarization of the party AGAINST the EU would be the way to go - one would think.

If we leave the EU, the Europhiles will do what? Say What? Defect to What?

If we STAY IN though - and it all goes ■■■■-up - what will the disenfranchised Eurosceptics do?
Join UKIP and campaign for a “second referendum” as is not going to happen in Scotland?

How to upset half the population, and fail to please the other half - in one hard lesson.

Cameron needs lies to fool the blue rinse brigade into staying in. Young people are NOT to be given the vote, strangely blocked this time by Labour peers who only a few weeks ago decided they WOULD intervene on behalf of benefit claimants - but not our underpaid 16-17 year olds it seems…

The 18-30’s will be fooled by any old tosh lie that their local perma-blue MP tells them - at least down south here. They don’t even have to like that MP, nor vote Conservative. They just need to remain ignorant over what will happen if we stay in (nothing good, status quo at best) and what threatened BAD things will happen “if we leave” - Erm… Such as? :neutral_face:

Guys, I get your frustration, you are fed up, OK!. You don’t want ever closer union, you don’t want to be rules by Brussels, OK!
Please explain to me, why every comment is against EU migrants when you have more then twice non EU immigrants in UK. Immigrants that you can control and don’t do that, you are not in Schengen, why don’t you bash them, why don’t you talk about them, why don’t you demand from your elected officials to reduce them? In all comments I read frustration and anger against Eastern Europeans, why?
According to ONS statistic by NIN issued EU migrants are 2.02 millions, non EU 5,8 millions.
For the first 6 months of 2015 UK granted 538,663 visas(not including visitor and transit visas) to non EU citizens, 297,671 of them for Asian countries. For first 6 months of 2014 the numbers were similar - 538,504. This are works visas, student visas, relatives etc. Don’t this people put strain on your country, if so, what do yo do(your Government), nothing! How many of this people will never leave? No one knows…
Оh and very very important question, what do you think will change if you are out of EU? Because I think if we(EU citizens) are barred from work in UK, we gonna be replaced by 2 million non EU citizens and NOTHING will change in UK. Again the problem is somewhere else and not in EU, you are not in Schengen and you let twice more non EU citizens, my guess is big business needs cheap workforce, and many qualified jobs are been available(nurses/doctors).
I can understand your logic to be against ever closer union, but can’t with being against EU citizens, not only EE living in UK, when in fact more Brits live in EU, then EU citizens in UK.
We also don’t want your alcoholics, murderers and pedophiles but we cant choose, with good people moving around there always will be bad once. Im stating this because some of you complain of EE criminals and beggars, well with doctors, engineers and hardworking people from EU moving to UK some criminals are moving to, thats life, we all should be against all criminals, regardless of nationality. Another good think UK might abolish leaving EU - police cooperation on international level.

One thing no-one seems to mention. If a parliamentarian doesn’t get re-elected he can then do as a certain labour man did, get a job for himself/ wife and son and before you know it three millionaire’s. De Gaul didn’t want us in at the start and it’e a pity that he did not win his argument. Let’s have our own laws and get out asap .

Here’s an explanation of the “Anti EU” feeling when it’s those beyond the EU that are causing the trouble…

WHO let the illegals cross the entire CONTINENT to get HERE in the FIRST PLACE? :angry:

We’d all be singing the EU’s praises - IF they’d rounded up all the illegals from beyond Europe - and kept them in the first EU country they reached, imprisoned or working - so “no job on arrival” means “incarceration” and more importantly “incarceration before they get anywhere near UK shores”.

The way all the criminals are waved through to Calais and beyond to here is criminal itself. THEN we’re told “Object to it, and you object to all other decent immigrants as well, and you’re racist for even thinking it”.

F— that argument. It’s about time the Anti-EU campaign got our decent immigrants on board with them - instead of trying to force the wider, neutral public to think that “an illegal immigrant” is the same as “a legal one actually from the EU who gets a job straight away on arrival, and pays taxes”.

I know immigrants of 20 years ago working in the Dagenham area who admit to voting BNP when they won the entire council there a few years back…
They lost it at the next election of course, because the government just cut their funding for being a “racist party”, thereby making all their promises un-implementable. :unamused:

Winseer:
Here’s an explanation of the “Anti EU” feeling when it’s those beyond the EU that are causing the trouble…

WHO let the illegals cross the entire CONTINENT to get HERE in the FIRST PLACE? :angry:

We’d all be singing the EU’s praises - IF they’d rounded up all the illegals from beyond Europe - and kept them in the first EU country they reached, imprisoned or working - so “no job on arrival” means “incarceration” and more importantly “incarceration before they get anywhere near UK shores”.

The way all the criminals are waved through to Calais and beyond to here is criminal itself. THEN we’re told “Object to it, and you object to all other decent immigrants as well, and you’re racist for even thinking it”.

F— that argument. It’s about time the Anti-EU campaign got our decent immigrants on board with them - instead of trying to force the wider, neutral public to think that “an illegal immigrant” is the same as “a legal one actually from the EU who gets a job straight away on arrival, and pays taxes”.

I know immigrants of 20 years ago working in the Dagenham area who admit to voting BNP when they won the entire council there a few years back…
They lost it at the next election of course, because the government just cut their funding for being a “racist party”, thereby making all their promises un-implementable. :unamused:

Who let them you ask, Merkel did, hundreds of thousands came in Greece knowing they are welcome in Germany. Why should Greece take care of all illegals if the richest country in EU want’s them. Its kind of national suicide to keep all of them in Greece/Macedonia/Serbia/Hungary or Slovenia, pick any country.

Bulgaria is doing exactly that, 30 000 illegals arrested this year only, 12 000 filed for refugee status for the last couple of years. We build fence and put 1000 officers at the border. We are controlling the in and out flow, which means preventing as many as we can at entering and as many as possible on their way out to Serbia. Until recently EU didn’t put us in the EU help plans so to speak, only after the high voice of the Bulgarian PM and shooting of one illegal made EU realize that Bulgaria need help, like Greece, Italy etc.We are able to keep our border tight while being one of the most corrupted and poor EU member. The moment illegals know they have no change of living and working in Germany,Austria, all Scandinavian countries, Holland, UK, France etc. they will stop. But the western EU countries message it idiotic.

novinite.com/articles/172336 … astal+Road

Bavaria’s premier, Horst Seehofer (CSU):
“Here there are almost no people crossing, by all means not across the green border, but on the official border posts. Bulgaria is not a member of the Schengen Area, but protects the external borders of Europe better than some other countries of the Schengen Area.”
bulgaria.bordermonitoring.eu/

Bulgaria PM Borisov:
“I want to thank the Bavarian premier and thereby all taxpayers in Germany and other countries, that they take care on the Bulgariens and for the huge amount of money that is invested in our economy and Infrastructure. For this we want to say thank you, while we are securing the custody of the Schengen border.”

Bulgaria is one of the few countries in eastern Europe registering and fingerprinting all migrants and was doing so long before the Paris attacks, Mr Gounev says.
“We’re actually doing a better job than most western countries,” he says, adding that asylum applicants are interviewed at least twice by intelligence officers.
“Several dozen” foreign fighters have also been arrested on their way across Bulgaria in the other direction, to fight for IS, he said.
bbc.com/news/world-europe-34920208

Instead of deporting illegals and criminals, UK is deporting people of British ancestry at age 92, this is crazy :open_mouth:

theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 … -and-frail

Funny how “The computer says no” for people like her, but the computer just “loses the details” of all those fit young men from outside the eu who are only here to feather their own nests one way or another…
Single blokes of the non-host country religion, bringing no single women (“unattached sisters who’d marry a non-muslim”) with no real job lined up, and able to claim benefits straight away…

I don’t worry about the Bulgarians. Their English is better than these non-EU blighters, and I can sit with Eastern Orthodox better than Islam any days.

I hear there are a lot of unclaimed National Insurance accounts… You get a number to get in the country - and then you drop out into the black economy, and pay no taxes as HMRC presumably meant one to do on arrival…
So much for THAT idea. :angry:

““David Cameron has been accused of a “migration cover-up” after it emerged that more than a million migrants who have come to the UK in recent years are unaccounted for.
Ministers have failed to release data which experts believe could show the true number of EU migrants coming to the UK, claiming that it would be “unhelpful” to Mr Cameron’s current renegotiation with Brussels ahead of the in-out referendum.””

““There were accusations that the figures are being suppressed amid fears that releasing the data could lead to Britain leaving the EU.
Experts warned that it could mean the number of migrants coming to Britain from the EU is actually hundreds of thousands higher than previously thought.””

““However, a recent spike in the number of EU migrants being given National Insurance numbers has seen experts raise questions of the accuracy of that data.
A total of almost two million EU migrants have been allocated national insurance numbers in the last four years – far higher than the 760,000 counted into Britain via surveys.””

telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop … itain.html

i remember discussing this about 10 pages ago . official statistics are massaged down by the Liberals who control the levers of power .

is a national scandal .

Dolph:
Instead of deporting illegals and criminals, UK is deporting people of British ancestry at age 92, this is crazy :open_mouth:

theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 … -and-frail

its not crazy at all .

the PM promised to bring down immigration . he cannot reduce the amount coming from cabbage soup eating EU countries .

so he has no choice but to discriminate against commonwealth countries .

without leaving EU , its the only weapon he has

boredwivdrivin:

Dolph:
Instead of deporting illegals and criminals, UK is deporting people of British ancestry at age 92, this is crazy :open_mouth:

theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 … -and-frail

its not crazy at all .

the PM promised to bring down immigration . he cannot reduce the amount coming from cabbage soup eating EU countries .

so he has no choice but to discriminate against commonwealth countries .

without leaving EU , its the only weapon he has

:laughing: Poor Dave, again its EU fault tsk tsk. I wonder if he wanted immigration down, why his government granted so many visas to people from outside EU…Im just “wondering”, Im not asking you, because I know the answer for myself.

TheYoungTrucker:
This is obviously a hot topic on here judging by the reaction, Cameron does not want to leave, however he promised the referendum so now he is forced into it really, this is one of the reason’s why he wanted to include young people, theres millions of young second generation immigrants in the uk how would all vote along with there parents to stay in the eu. Any uk trucker should be voting out, they may well be saving the uk trucking industry by doing so. Could you imagine if sabotage rules where lifted, all you have to do to imagine is, take a look at the continental scene.

If it IS held next summer then the EU can throw it in the bin for breaking our own “Royal Assent” laws, making it illegal to hold it before October, bearing in mind Royal Assent was only given just before Christmas. :unamused:

Brexit: a referendum on Ireland’s future.
The UK ballot on whether it should withdraw from the EU could take place this year. A decision to leave would change this country more radically than any domestic election

irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ … -1.2476474

The sooner the better

Sinn Fein are in favour of ‘UK’ remaining in EU !!!

I reckon there must have been a few kneecappings involved in arriving at that decision !

And quite why people who apparently now favour the partition of 1 island nation , should be opposed to the partition of a 3 nation island , im not sure i quite understand .

Beautifully illustrates the absurdity of UK as an entity tho .

boredwivdrivin:
Sinn Fein are in favour of ‘UK’ remaining in EU !!!

I reckon there must have been a few kneecappings involved in arriving at that decision !

And quite why people who apparently now favour the partition of 1 island nation , should be opposed to the partition of a 3 nation island , im not sure i quite understand .

Beautifully illustrates the absurdity of UK as an entity tho .

+1

A country born out of Nationalism saying it can’t survive without remaining dependent on the status quo of the UK and EU federations. :unamused: When ironically it was a member of neither for longer than we’ve both been in the EU.While if the North thinks that it needs an open border with the South then the answer is obvious.

I cant help wondering if Sinn Fein will be campaigning under the Union Flag of the Conservative & Unionist Party leadership during hustings ?

Will they take their seats in British parliament to try and protect the status quo ?

Maybe adams and mcguiness are after a seat in the house of lords as their reward !

Ive no idea but i know i have no dry ■■■■■■■ in this house anymore.

boredwivdrivin:
I cant help wondering if Sinn Fein will be campaigning under the Union Flag of the Conservative & Unionist Party leadership during hustings ?

:laughing: :laughing:

Like the SNP.A Federalist Socialist Nationalist Party. :smiling_imp: :unamused:

Scotland says it wants another referendum if England voted to leave, but Scotland got out-voted to stay in…

Mind you, Scotland want another referendum if the sun rises tomorrow, so that’s not saying an awful lot is it?

UKIP are happy to see the Scots get that referendum though… No word from the Conservatives as yet, as being the only ones that can actually give it to them though.

Cameron has a chance to pull off a major coup here IF he suddenly swings the party with himself still at head - to being in FAVOUR of Brexit, “having got nowhere with the EU re-negotiations”.

“I meant it!” he could bark at Merkel in particular…

It would be nice if a sitting prime minister actually got the mood of the majority of the general public, and did the right thing all by himself whilst still in office to do it…

It’s not so much politicians we’re ■■■■■■ off with - it’s their lies.

Like religion… “Hate the sin, but love the sinner”?

The public should let their local MP they voted for know “just what THEY think as rank-and-file workers” to the entire EU bullshine train. :bulb:

Winseer:
Scotland says it wants another referendum if England voted to leave…

Mind you, Scotland want another referendum if the sun rises tomorrow

No they dont. The SNP do. But they dont speak for the vast majority of Scots, despite what they want to believe. The vast majority of Scots are totally disillusioned with the SNP and they are getting too big for their boots. Winning the Scottish seats by a wipe out has made them think they are better than they actually are and they seem to be going out of their way to pick a fight with Cameron in particular at every turn.
Every time I hear the words “Scotland does not want…” eminating from Sturgeons gob I feel an incredible urge to hit her right in the mouth with the business end of a claw hammer. She thinks she speaks for everyone but in reality she just has an immense over inflated ego. During the “should we bomb Syria” debate, we kept hearing “Scotland does not support bombings” but the SNP didnt actually ask anyone what they thought, they just went ahead and said it because in a nutshell, they’d say black was white just to spite David Cameron.
Dont listen to the SNP mouth pieces and think that the whole of Scotland is behind them and in agreement with what they spout

Winseer:
Scotland says it wants another referendum if England voted to leave, but Scotland got out-voted to stay in…

Mind you, Scotland want another referendum if the sun rises tomorrow, so that’s not saying an awful lot is it?

UKIP are happy to see the Scots get that referendum though… No word from the Conservatives as yet, as being the only ones that can actually give it to them though.

Cameron has a chance to pull off a major coup here IF he suddenly swings the party with himself still at head - to being in FAVOUR of Brexit, “having got nowhere with the EU re-negotiations”.

“I meant it!” he could bark at Merkel in particular…

It would be nice if a sitting prime minister actually got the mood of the majority of the general public, and did the right thing all by himself whilst still in office to do it…

It’s not so much politicians we’re ■■■■■■ off with - it’s their lies.

Like religion… “Hate the sin, but love the sinner”?

The public should let their local MP they voted for know “just what THEY think as rank-and-file workers” to the entire EU bullshine train. :bulb:

Realistically the whole thing is a cluster zb of epic proportions.We’ve got a pro EU and pro UK Federalist leader of an ideologically Unionist Federalist Party.

But which is divided by an anti Federalist EU but still pro Unionist UK faction.He is supported in his pro EU stance by a pro EU but anti UK SNP.

We’ve then got an ideologically anti Federalist anti EU Party but which is also pro UK.That pro UK stance in all cases likely tying us to the pro EU SNP vote.

IE realistically it’s impossible to see how we won’t be dragged into Merkel’s waiting trap by the SNP vote allied to the pro EU Con and Lab vote.In which case we are probably lumbered with the EU unless we can also ditch the UK in favour of English independence bearing in mind that the Scottish vote might well be the difference between the UK staying in or England getting out.In either case the EU referendum will be inextricably linked to the issue of the breakup of the UK assuming either case.Assuming England finds itself taken in on the basis of the Scottish vote or vice versa in the case of Scotland being taken out on the basis of the English vote.

On that note there’s probably no way that we can get out without also applying the Swedish/Norwegian solution to the dead in the water idea of the ‘UK’ given a pro EU Scotland v anti EU England. :bulb: