In or out CABOTAGE

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Following on from Harrys previous post on in or out both he and Olov jay make the point on cabotage just to clarify this for me , and leaving aside the politics as they are well covered in the previous post .

As I understand it the EU is advocating complete freedom for transport operators of any EU nation to carry domestic loads in any other country in the EU

So an eastern european operator will be able to base vehicles in this country indefinetly with no operating base no maintanence agreement and I assume an O liscence from their own country and of course cheap labour living in the cab .

This must mean the end for what general haulage is left and also pose a massive threat to the likes of Stobart in the endless race to the bottom on price , all of the major transport users will certainly take advantage of perhaps a 20% lower transport cost

Of course VOSA or whatever they are called now will police this influx with great rigour in terms of drivers hours etc

Have I got this right ■■? Will the Fench and Germans really allow this to happen in their countries , who is driving (sorry) this idea??

2

Not at all.

All the big players have warehousing. This is the money spinner. Haulage is often a loss leader to fill a warehouse.

The only jobs that may be taken are the jobs the big ones, and the good quality niche players aren’t doing already.

3

Cabotage restrictions were due to be removed in 2014, opposition by French and Nordic trade bodies saw this shelved, for the time being. However, removal of cabotage rules remains the long-term goal of the eu as they conflict with the principle of the free movement of labour.

More info here theloadstar.co.uk/ec-backs-down- … ion-plans/

And yes, in my opinion anyway, when cabotage restrictions are fully removed then there will be about as much chance of a load from Manchester to Southampton being moved on a British truck as there is a load from Manchester to Milan nowadays.

4

The other eu nations won’t be able to do a thing about it. It’s part of the freedom of movement driven by the eu. They want complete open borders for everyone to come and go as they please, schengen is our only saving grace on this, so yes, a Romanian haulier can just leave trucks here permanently to service any contracts they have got. Just look at the amount of Ee units on roro traction, they’re already here doing it. Dvsa have been hotter on eu operators, whether this will have an effect post cabotage lift, who knows. Maybe they’ll turn back to uk operators as there will be corner cutting happening before eventual extinction.

5

Darkside:
Not at all.

There’s no reason why the domestic haulage sector wouldn’t go to the lowest denominator just as in the case of the international one.

However Obama and Trudeau maybe could try it out in America and Canada first by allowing Mexican cabotage operations there.Being that they’re all so keen on an in vote here. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

6

All the experts on this site say things like 'race to the bottom. They moan about the state of haulage.

The truth is, if, God forbid, we vote leave, this economy will suffer badly short term. Haulage is not going to be in a good state.

So why would foreign hauliers come here to do non contract work?

7

Darkside:
All the experts on this site say things like 'race to the bottom. They moan about the state of haulage.

The truth is, if, God forbid, we vote leave, this economy will suffer badly short term. Haulage is not going to be in a good state.

So why would foreign hauliers come here to do non contract work?

Because if we have voted to leave they won’t be able to come in and take the work as we will be out of the EU, vote remain the cabotage rules will be lifted.

What a lot of people who say vote remain and keep the status quo do not realise is that you are not voting for the status quo. Juncker and Tusk have not held up their hands and said that the European experiment is complete there is much more coming down the line . Should the UK vote to remain it will be completely sidelined from any major decisions in a few years time unless it joins the Euro. Once all the EE countries are in the Euro all decisions that will be made will be made for the benefit of the Euro zone and if you don’t like it you will be told to join the Euro

8

Darkside:
All the experts on this site say things like 'race to the bottom. They moan about the state of haulage.

The truth is, if, God forbid, we vote leave, this economy will suffer badly short term. Haulage is not going to be in a good state.

So why would foreign hauliers come here to do non contract work?

I wouldn’t say I am an “expert”, but I am an operator. I’ll try to answer your points.

Going back ten years or so, there was a thriving British continental transport industry. On any Dover-Calais ferry, about 70% of the drivers would be British. The last time I was on a Dover-Calais ferry, about two years ago, I was the only British driver on it, in fact I was the only western European driver on it.

Continental work disappeared because eastern European hauliers can run around western Europe indefinitely, so long as they cross borders, for around half of the cost of western European operators. What they can’t do is unlimited journeys within the borders of one country, e.g the UK, and the cost and logistical difficulties of having to arrange a movement to, say, France after every three UK movements make this financially and logistically impractical.

Once cabotage restrictions are removed, then of course eastern European operators will take over UK domestic work. Eastern European drivers already typically work away from home for 11+ months a year, so it would make no difference to them if they were shuttling around the UK as opposed to doing UK-Italy work, and nobody would be prepared to pay me £400 to do a movement if a Lithuanian operator would do it for £200.

I used to say on the Dover-Calais ferries, back in 2004 “In ten years time there won’t be such a thing as a British continental truck driver any more”, everybody said I was barking mad. I tell you now, that if we remain in the eu, there won’t be such a thing as a British truck driver in ten years time. Don’t come back in ten years time and say “I wish I’d listened to you in 2016”, listen to me now.

9

Im a British driver/owner operator (Spanish reg truck) subbing for a large Spanish consortium and my work takes me mainly around Spain and Portugal with a tilt but occasionally if its fruit on a reefer as far north as Belgium and beyond and im all for cabotage as long as its done on a level playing field ie new vehicle duty taxes and road taxation fees which are currently all over the place from one country to another…

10

AndrewG:
Im a British driver/owner operator (Spanish reg truck) subbing for a large Spanish consortium and my work takes me mainly around Spain and Portugal with a tilt but occasionally if its fruit on a reefer as far north as Belgium and beyond and im all for cabotage as long as its done on a level playing field ie new vehicle duty taxes and road taxation fees which are currently all over the place from one country to another…

That’s never going to happen, as you’d need the eastern block to bring wages, taxes and everything else up to western rates and standards. It’s far easier for them to make millions using their rock bottom operating costs, undercutting western operators

11

You only have to look at belguim france spain ect …whom is pulling they’re trailers…if we come out hopefully it will go back to place ov origin…as it should be…English work by an English registered truck not romo or pleasure bg pulling other people’s traction…av a good day

12

drhs:
You only have to look at belguim france spain ect …whom is pulling they’re trailers…if we come out hopefully it will go back to place ov origin…as it should be…English work by an English registered truck not romo or pl bg pulling other people’s traction…av a good day

13

Harry Monk:
I wouldn’t say I am an “expert”, but I am an operator. I’ll try to answer your points.

Going back ten years or so, there was a thriving British continental transport industry. On any Dover-Calais ferry, about 70% of the drivers would be British. The last time I was on a Dover-Calais ferry, about two years ago, I was the only British driver on it, in fact I was the only western European driver on it.

Continental work disappeared because eastern European hauliers can run around western Europe indefinitely, so long as they cross borders, for around half of the cost of western European operators. What they can’t do is unlimited journeys within the borders of one country, e.g the UK, and the cost and logistical difficulties of having to arrange a movement to, say, France after every three UK movements make this financially and logistically impractical.

Once cabotage restrictions are removed, then of course eastern European operators will take over UK domestic work. Eastern European drivers already typically work away from home for 11+ months a year, so it would make no difference to them if they were shuttling around the UK as opposed to doing UK-Italy work, and nobody would be prepared to pay me £400 to do a movement if a Lithuanian operator would do it for £200.

I used to say on the Dover-Calais ferries, back in 2004 “In ten years time there won’t be such a thing as a British continental truck driver any more”, everybody said I was barking mad. I tell you now, that if we remain in the eu, there won’t be such a thing as a British truck driver in ten years time. Don’t come back in ten years time and say “I wish I’d listened to you in 2016”, listen to me now.

Absolutely spot on. The figures quoted for UK hauliers doing continental moves in Q3 of 2015 were 16.6% of the total.

I don’t know what the wages are now, but in the mid 2000s, Willi Betz when he was at his peak here, was paying his drivers less a month that I was paying mine a week - we pay around the average, it’s a reflection of how poorly paid the East EU drivers are paid.

The aim of the EU, and which Cameron has endorsed, is a deepening of the integration of the EU. Ultimately that means full fiscal integration where the tax and VAT rates are all set by Brussels and all of Europe is harmonised. Personally that doesn’t appeal, but it would be better than this current f*** up where we are harnessing disparate economies together under the umbrella of us all being ‘together’ whilst simultaneously competing with each other. But that harmonisation is decades away until all the economies are broadly in line with each other and to achieve that the poorer ones have to be lifted up and inevitably the richer will take a hit.

14

To many EE company now pay for drivers 60-70 euro per calendar day(not working day).So i know friend who earn about 2000 euro per working month after tax.This money very close and sometime more high what get typical Germany drivers and more what can earn in some British companies(Freshlinc,Fowler Welsh and more)

15

I drove down to benidorm last week between Dover an there I saw two British trucks and five irish ones

16

Harry Monk:
I tell you now, that if we remain in the eu, there won’t be such a thing as a British truck driver in ten years time. Don’t come back in ten years time and say “I wish I’d listened to you in 2016”, listen to me now.

Says the man subbing for a race to the bottom mega haulage company. :unamused:

17

Heritige from Dover use pretty much ee subbed all the time there a firm advertising on Facebook to flag your motors out on bg and ro plates and I’ve seen loads running in to a big warehouse near where I work same motors day in day out with British and eastern European drivers.
Most heaps look worse than the motors been exported out of Tilbury.

18

del trotter:

Harry Monk:
I tell you now, that if we remain in the eu, there won’t be such a thing as a British truck driver in ten years time. Don’t come back in ten years time and say “I wish I’d listened to you in 2016”, listen to me now.

Says the man subbing for a race to the bottom mega haulage company. :unamused:

On a personal basis, I’d much prefer to be doing continental work. However, it is simply impossible to obtain rates which would make that viable because of the lower cost base of eastern European hauliers, and so I do unlimited domestic work, which cabotage restrictions currently prohibit foreign-registered trucks from doing. Once cabotage restrictions are removed, I very much doubt I would be able to earn a living running a truck on UK work either.

19

drhs:
You only have to look at belguim france spain ect …whom is pulling they’re trailers…if we come out hopefully it will go back to place ov origin…as it should be…English work by an English registered truck not romo or pleasure bg pulling other people’s traction…av a good day

^ This.That’s obviously good enough for even Europhile Obama’s NAFTA so why not us.

20

del trotter:

Harry Monk:
I tell you now, that if we remain in the eu, there won’t be such a thing as a British truck driver in ten years time. Don’t come back in ten years time and say “I wish I’d listened to you in 2016”, listen to me now.

Says the man subbing for a race to the bottom mega haulage company. :unamused:

Says the obvious Europhile.If Harry was part of any race to the bottom he’d obviously be doing continental work by under cutting the East Euros not doing domestic for better rates. :unamused: