what sort of work conditions IE hours and wages could we expect to get ■■? 
About the same as proper unionised company drivers already get.
The thing with rail or firemen is two fold, they’ve not allowed their jobs to be deskilled, or as the case of lorry drivers actually encouraged nay demanded the deskilling of their own jobs, and in both cases they can’t import foreign competitors readily to do the work, ie no bloody good trying to get a fire engine response from Warsaw, similarly you can’t pluck trains and drivers from some former soviet bloc nation and drop them wholesale onto the Great Western line.
Drivers on the whole don’t want unions, even in proper unionised outfits there’s lots of people won’t join the union…invariably they are the ones who take the ■■■■ out of sickies and milk the lucrative benefits that the union members gained through sensible collective bargaining, in other words your fellow drivers are your and their own worse enemies, but they’re incapable of working this out for themselves.
Ironically train drivers unions would be the first to moan about the fuel taxation level playing field and increases in productivety,in the form of LHV’s,that it would take to pay for it.
I think you’ll find the fire service has moved more to a part time (retained) employer. Many fire stations around Manchester are “community” fire stations and do not have full time fire fighters.
Also it used to be quite common for fire fighters to work as truck drivers for agencies on their rest days.
As for train drivers, it’s the training which affects wages as the only way to learn is on the job, you can’t go to some bloke with a spare train and practice on some spare track.
How many times do we read on this forum from newbie drivers who paid for their own training and the get exploited by some minimum wage outfit.
Idid not mean just money…on hours ie 15 HOUR spread, 10 hours drive, 45 hours off at week end, a place close to road but not right next to it where you take a risk of getting whipped out or your door off when you need a leak. or to have 20 minutes or a 45 rest there is much to do to attract new drivers for the future
According to some here, one alter ego of which is apparently still secretly testing the most fantastic robot technology in NZ, where presumably they keep in contact via smoke signals 
, no drivers will be needed after next year due to autonomous trucks rolling out, all electric too, going to generate their own electricity from the new electric trees labour are planting to supplement the croydon money trees.
You can have all those things you want, no need for less than 45 hour weekend breaks, no normal need for 15 hour days etc etc, just find a proper job which has a decent union, get the job, and join the union and work efficiently courteously competently so the company thrives and the job lasts for ever, if you give value for money bosses with some nous are happy to pay what you are worth without you having to do the work of two or three men…but, if you arn’t prepared to give a bit back when the job demands it, which is what too many of our brethren are like, then the company won’t thrive and the job will die on its feet like so many others have.
A union isn’t some omnipotent being that waves a magic wand and fixes the injustices of the lorry world, the union is you me and all the other working sub paying members of the union, we are the union, not the suits at the head of the union who too often are more interested in political and personal ambition than in what they should be, and we have an Achilles heel in the sheer number of people who won’t join the union where unions are recognised, but are first in the queue to take the ■■■■ out of the benefits…ie sickies…where genuine union men have to be almost corpses before they’ll take a sick day because they know how precious such a benefit is for those genuinely in need.
Other drivers are the enemy of our job, in so many ways.
Won’t happen…end of.
As already said drivers are their own worst enemies, in a turkeys voting for Christmas style.
Most of them WILLINGLLY work the ridiculous limits, treating them as weekly targets, because they confuse their top line (with nights out) as ‘making good money’ , too blissfully thick to realise it’s for working what equates to a week and a half in hours, in comparison to most other industries, so therefore is far from ‘good money’. …unless of course they were getting proper overtime rates instead of same rate right through (another thing they voted for with their feet and fell into a trap with.)
Also try and get most of them to back you if an injustice occurs, or to stick together, won’t happen, half of them suffer from acute apathy, the other half are too scared to stand up to their boss.
Drivers are a strange breed, as I said…it won’t happen.
Best thing to do is head down, look after numero uno. 
When not if an injustice happens the rest get there phone out to upload for entertainment. I remember forty odd years ago telling other workers that the boss can and will do that to you next week/month or when ever. The working man has always been his own worst enemy.
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''fuse:
what sort of work conditions IE hours and wages could we expect to get ■■?
Juddian:
About the same as proper unionised company drivers already get.
That about puts it in a nutshell, o/p’s question answered in one .
Have a think on that one for a moment, all the ones on here who have been drip fed (and believe ) all the post 80s anti Union propaganda…you can’t argue with facts.
robroy:
''fuse:
what sort of work conditions IE hours and wages could we expect to get ■■?Juddian:
About the same as proper unionised company drivers already get.That about puts it in a nutshell, o/p’s question answered in one .
Have a think on that one for a moment, all the ones on here who have been drip fed (and believe
Think about it in the polling station tomorrow, the Tories fed all that anti union propaganda to the public.
Last week a Tory MP was in a station where drivers were striking trying to get things moving himself…
Darkside:
Think about it in the polling station tomorrow, the Tories fed all that anti union propaganda to the public.Last week a Tory MP was in a station where drivers were striking trying to get things moving himself…
I agree 100%…they did, and as I’ve said before on here, I as a working class, working male, SHOULD be automatically voting for a Labour Govt, but this is not a Labour Party of the type that was originally devised as, and for.
The leader is unelectable due to his dubious history and his ideas.
It’s like if your local chippy was the best in the area, if it suddenly changes hands and is suddenly the worst, you ain’t going to keep being a customer are you?
It’s got to the stage if you can be actually arsed to vote at all, it’s a vote for the best of 2 evils.
This election is purely based on, and because of Brexit, so I’m voting for the one (with an element of trepidation) who is going to distance us from the EU…a policy that has already been voted for, which should have been democratically done and dusted already…
you do not have to be a labour voter to be in a union, all you need is good support of loads of members …bit like nato when one is in trouble all give support. I know it will never happen but with a bit of effort this 15 hour stuff could be consigned to the dust bin with no loss of earnings and maybe better places to have 15 and 45 min rest ,Ido know a toilet would be nice.I enjoyed life on the road but it does not mean conditions that are 30 years out of date
fuse:
you do not have to be a labour voter to be in a union, all you need is good support of loads of members …bit like nato when one is in trouble all give support. I know it will never happen but with a bit of effort this 15 hour stuff could be consigned to the dust bin with no loss of earnings and maybe better places to have 15 and 45 min rest ,Ido know a toilet would be nice.I enjoyed life on the road but it does not mean conditions that are 30 years out of date
+1…
15 hours, that’s 1 hour short of two shifts for ‘normal’ people.
robroy:
Darkside:
Think about it in the polling station tomorrow, the Tories fed all that anti union propaganda to the public.Last week a Tory MP was in a station where drivers were striking trying to get things moving himself…
I agree 100%…they did, and as I’ve said before on here, I as a working class, working male, SHOULD be automatically voting for a Labour Govt, but this is not a Labour Party of the type that was originally devised as, and for.
The leader is unelectable due to his dubious history and his ideas.
It’s like if your local chippy was the best in the area, if it suddenly changes hands and is suddenly the worst, you ain’t going to keep being a customer are you?It’s got to the stage if you can be actually arsed to vote at all, it’s a vote for the best of 2 evils.
This election is purely based on, and because of Brexit, so I’m voting for the one (with an element of trepidation) who is going to distance us from the EU…a policy that has already been voted for, which should have been democratically done and dusted already…
I respect that of course, and the advice I will give you (and anyone),who is voting Tory to get Brexit done, is to put an ‘X’ next to Conservative, and an ‘X’ next to the Brexit Party to show how important the issue is to you 
Darkside:
robroy:
Darkside:
Think about it in the polling station tomorrow, the Tories fed all that anti union propaganda to the public.Last week a Tory MP was in a station where drivers were striking trying to get things moving himself…
I agree 100%…they did, and as I’ve said before on here, I as a working class, working male, SHOULD be automatically voting for a Labour Govt, but this is not a Labour Party of the type that was originally devised as, and for.
The leader is unelectable due to his dubious history and his ideas.
It’s like if your local chippy was the best in the area, if it suddenly changes hands and is suddenly the worst, you ain’t going to keep being a customer are you?It’s got to the stage if you can be actually arsed to vote at all, it’s a vote for the best of 2 evils.
This election is purely based on, and because of Brexit, so I’m voting for the one (with an element of trepidation) who is going to distance us from the EU…a policy that has already been voted for, which should have been democratically done and dusted already…I respect that of course, and the advice I will give you (and anyone),who is voting Tory to get Brexit done, is to put an ‘X’ next to Conservative, and an ‘X’ next to the Brexit Party to show how important the issue is to you
Don’t tell them that mate, there are some on here actually daft enough to think that would work.
I am sure there are some that will spell ‘X’ wrong…
In the unlikely theoretical situation where drivers stuck together I think over the years we’d have got better pay and conditions, basically a realistic wage for a normal working week, maybe due to union pressure banning parking in layby’s, proper parking areas and like the rail industry might have seen many more applicants for each job.
But like all these things it would be an on going battle to keep those hard won pay and conditions, (but then a battle that was lost many years ago for most)
Companies would be looking for cheaper alternatives, they would make full use of cabotage regulations to get cheap transport and the UK continental haulage industry would be devastated, (oh it already is, as it is for many other Western European countries)
They’d try and divide the work force with short term bribes and threats to get them away from the union.
Politicians would be under considerable pressure from the industry to find ways to break the power of the drivers union, by using anti union laws and industry de-regulation.
The media would run a full on smear campaign against us, (nothing new then) they’ll make truck drivers out as over-paid workers who hold the country to ransom, any dirt on our union leaders will be raked up.
So where are all the 30 somethings that usually come on here on these threads, who were indoctrinated at school with all the anti Union biased history lessons.
We usually get them on these threads, with the ‘’…Unions are only in it for themselves’’ mantra, and using examples of the 70s, Arthur Scargill, ‘winter of discontent’ etc.
The facts are there, those of us who are lucky enough to work for a co with a recognised Union (and I ain’t talking of the stereotypical bolshy ‘everybody out’ types) are much better off in t.s and c.s than those of us who are not.
IF a miracle occurred of fantastic proportions, where drivers just said ‘‘■■■■ this, enough is enough, let’s get this crock of ■■■■ job sorted’’ we would all have a better standard of living, and certainly not be doing 15s on 9s off to make a wage to live on, and parking up in craphole lay bys.
Reality Check…
More chance of pork going airborne unfortunately.
robroy:
So where are all the 30 somethings that usually come on here on these threads, who were indoctrinated at school with all the anti Union biased history lessons.
We usually get them on these threads, with the ‘’…Unions are only in it for themselves’’ mantra, and using examples of the 70s, Arthur Scargill, ‘winter of discontent’ etc.
The facts are there, those of us who are lucky enough to work for a co with a recognised Union (and I ain’t talking of the stereotypical bolshy ‘everybody out’ types) are much better off in t.s and c.s than those of us who are not.
IF a miracle occurred of fantastic proportions, where drivers just said ‘’[zb] this, enough is enough, let’s get this crock of [zb] job sorted’’ we would all have a better standard of living, and certainly not be doing 15s on 9s off to make a wage to live on, and parking up in craphole lay bys.Reality Check…
More chance of pork going airborne unfortunately.
Agreed,
Unions arn’t the suits or the general secretaries, but we must not forget the genuine union men and women who never forget where they came from, and always do and did the best for their members, ie the late Bob Crow, wish i’d got on the railways years ago sadly childhood eye issue scuppered that and something else for me, such is life.
The union is the members at local branch or company level who pay their dues and take part in the union, and full time local union reps, and whilst there’s always going to be some silly buggers among them, most of them that i know are more likely to be conservative sensible minded people (without a party to represent them any more, seeing as labour dumped the working class and the tories are fake conservatives) who want a fair not a pie in the sky deal and where most i know realistically try to offer the company some quality and value for their pay whilst at work, the longer term union members i know are the ones least likely to take sickies, and the ones least likely to try and weasel their way out of doing their jobs via the myriad excuses people come up with these days, equally they know all of our jobs right up to the boardroom depend on satisfied customers, no satisfied customer no jobs for anyone.
As you say solidarity isn’t going to happen, so your method Robroy is the right one, look after number one, my suggestion is also to find that better unionised job if you can and then look after it so it lasts, and once you have it keep schtum, only let people whom you yourself would employ know about the place if you think they might be looking, that’s not just good for the company but its good for you personally in the long run, don’t tell your mates if you know deep in your heart they don’t have the work or other ethics to play their part.
Robroy often speaks of ‘team companies’, and he’s right, everyone must play their part, if you end up carrying dead uninterested wood along it will drag you down with it.
Had a brilliant one couple of weeks ago, asked one of the bods (always doing something stupid, hasn’t got a minute to live) who was gobbing of about an issue that’s raising its head if he had joined the union yet…answer ‘‘nah i’m not in trouble at the moment, no need’’…which describes perfectly why not only the transport sector but the entire country is floating up the creek without a paddle, he’s got one of the best jobs in the country and hasn’t the foggiest how why what or when , wtf can you do with people like that.