you know what switchlogic? you should take one of these,the maybe you would in a better humor yourself
Tony Taylor:
you know what switchlogic? you should take one of these,the maybe you would in a better humor yourself
Im sure when you’ve been on this stupid forum a bit longer with people wanting a fight and arguement time and time and time again you’ll get a bit fed up of people with agendas who can’t read posts properly. Even when you compliment them on common sense in their posts they attack. Wait and see.
Anorak dont do it like that youuse hand brake whilst taking up the drive and the same with the poxy auto box and if you re not Irish switch logic why the constant references to Ireland and Irish hauliers.Crow.
switchlogic:
ramone:
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
i ll defy anyone with an auto box not to break the eggOk then, how much do you want a bet on that?
.
I’ll take a piece of that action too
You would loose that bet Geoff because these super auto boxes that you are totally in control of at all times need a little button on the dash so you dont roll back on a hill ,now whos gonna bet that you dont need that button and if so why the hell do they fit one?
Never used it. Don’t ask me why they fit it, maybe for people who can’t drive autos?
Don’t have one on mine 
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
ramone:
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
i ll defy anyone with an auto box not to break the eggOk then, how much do you want a bet on that?
.
I’ll take a piece of that action too
You would loose that bet Geoff because these super auto boxes that you are totally in control of at all times need a little button on the dash so you dont roll back on a hill ,now whos gonna bet that you dont need that button and if so why the hell do they fit one?
Never used it. Don’t ask me why they fit it, maybe for people who can’t drive autos?
Don’t have one on mine
The ZFs have them on
geoffthecrowtaylor:
Anorak dont do it like that youuse hand brake whilst taking up the drive and the same with the poxy auto box and if you re not Irish switch logic why the constant references to Ireland and Irish hauliers.Crow.
I use the handbrake in a car, but the park brake on a lorry is either on or off, and the valve has no “feel.” I would have thought that, given a free left foot, it would be easier, with less revs and clutch-slipping, to balance the throttle against the service brakes, when attempting a difficult hill start. Of course, if some of these modern contraptions have hill start buttons and other hand-holding devices, mechanical sympathy may well be redundant.
geoffthecrowtaylor:
and if you re not Irish switch logic why the constant references to Ireland and Irish hauliers.Crow.
You don’t really need me to answer that for you do you?..
ramone:
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
ramone:
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
i ll defy anyone with an auto box not to break the eggOk then, how much do you want a bet on that?
.
I’ll take a piece of that action too
You would loose that bet Geoff because these super auto boxes that you are totally in control of at all times need a little button on the dash so you dont roll back on a hill ,now whos gonna bet that you dont need that button and if so why the hell do they fit one?
Never used it. Don’t ask me why they fit it, maybe for people who can’t drive autos?
Don’t have one on mine
The ZFs have them on
I’m on I shift at the mo 
Never even spotted it on the DAF I tried
switchlogic:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
and if you re not Irish switch logic why the constant references to Ireland and Irish hauliers.Crow.You don’t really need me to answer that for you do you?..
Yes, twice, to be sure to be sure
OK I’l get my coat 
billybigrig:
ramone:
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
ramone:
billybigrig:
switchlogic:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
i ll defy anyone with an auto box not to break the eggOk then, how much do you want a bet on that?
.
I’ll take a piece of that action too
You would loose that bet Geoff because these super auto boxes that you are totally in control of at all times need a little button on the dash so you dont roll back on a hill ,now whos gonna bet that you dont need that button and if so why the hell do they fit one?
Never used it. Don’t ask me why they fit it, maybe for people who can’t drive autos?
Don’t have one on mine
The ZFs have them on
I’m on I shift at the mo
My current Scania has one but that’s the first time I’ve ever seen one in an auto truck.
[zb]
anorak:geoffthecrowtaylor:
Anorak dont do it like that youuse hand brake whilst taking up the drive and the same with the poxy auto box and if you re not Irish switch logic why the constant references to Ireland and Irish hauliers.Crow.I use the handbrake in a car, but the park brake on a lorry is either on or off, and the valve has no “feel.” I would have thought that, given a free left foot, it would be easier, with less revs and clutch-slipping, to balance the throttle against the service brakes, when attempting a difficult hill start. Of course, if some of these modern contraptions have hill start buttons and other hand-holding devices, mechanical sympathy may well be redundant.
The park brake on a lorry,at least over the years between the 1970’s to date, could be anything from a mechanical lever/linkages/cables type,like the old Atki,to just the small air park brake handle.In all cases you don’t need any ‘feel’ in that brake control at all.You just let the clutch in using a good low gear just (very) slightly before you release the brake.It’s the timing and co ordination of doing that and choosing the right gear and applying the right amount of power that determines wether you’ll either roll back at great speed with a loaded truck,or burn the clutch out and/or put massive shock loadings on the drive line while going nowhere.
It’s difficult to see how a computer that’s linked to a manual box and clutch can do that job any better,if even as good,as a human would.It would need to be some sort of link and interface between accelerator,clutch and the brake control which might be what the button being referred to switches on.If the driver needs to intervene at any point in that link,to operate any of those controls,then the system would be more likely to cause confusion and conflict,between the different inputs from the driver and the computer,which would actually result in the type of issues expected of a bad driver getting the amounts or co ordination of any of those inputs wrong when using a conventional manual box.
Over thinking things again I see Carryfast. All the hill hold does is in the Scania hold the brakes for something like two seconds after you take your foot off the brake. In others it releases when you press the throttle. Nothing complicated. And not actually needed. It’s just a normal switch much like the cruise control switch*. You can leave it on all the time, or use it when needed, or as I do never use it.
*as in the one on dash to turn cc on and off. Not set speed.
So Switchy, as you do a lot of long distance driving, what exactly is the benefit of having an autoshift on your job 
Many hours of rolling along on the limiter in top gear, hardly a challenge to drop a cog here and there
For urban work, yes, but long distance, not necessary at all, sure, they’re a nice luxury, but that’s all they are in a long distance lorry, sometimes the luxury can be more trouble than it’s worth though 
I’ll bet with you on the hill start thing, a bit of sensitivity on the right pedal achieves the same result as any clutch pedal
newmercman:
I’ll bet with you on the hill start thing, a bit of sensitivity on the right pedal achieves the same result as any clutch pedal
This automated manual hillstart thing is confusing.Either the driver has control over all the parameters or the computer and gear shift mechanism has.But if they’re mixing them,in the case of the driver doesn’t kow or have any control over all three parameters,of accelerator application,clutch engagement and brake release then the chance of getting the thing started has to be a hit or miss anyone’s guess at least as to the timing of clutch engagement and brake release which need to be virtually synchronised with a slight bias in favour of clutch engagement.So who’s actually engaging the clutch and who’s releasing the brake and who actually decides the timing of the two if the computer only does one of them not the other.That’s even without the issue of having control and feel of the clutch biting point on your left foot as opposed to accelerator input on your right foot which is what stops the clutch getting burnt out. 
I can totally understand Crow’s point in the argument.
Carryfast:
newmercman:
I’ll bet with you on the hill start thing, a bit of sensitivity on the right pedal achieves the same result as any clutch pedalThis automated manual hillstart thing is confusing.Either the driver has control over all the parameters or the computer and gear shift mechanism has.But if they’re mixing them,in the case of the driver doesn’t kow or have any control over all three parameters,of accelerator application,clutch engagement and brake release then the chance of getting the thing started has to be a hit or miss anyone’s guess at least as to the timing of clutch engagement and brake release which need to be virtually synchronised with a slight bias in favour of clutch engagement.So who’s actually engaging the clutch and who’s releasing the brake and who actually decides the timing of the two if the computer only does one of them not the other.That’s even without the issue of having control and feel of the clutch biting point on your left foot as opposed to accelerator input on your right foot which is what stops the clutch getting burnt out.
I can totally understand Crow’s point in the argument.
See Switchs post above 
The system just holds the brake until it senses positive take off just like doing a hill start using the handbrake in a manual. I imagine it’s available on manuals too as it’s simply a general driver aid not a tool to make the mystical auto box of trickery and black magic work
It’s just to prevent unintentional roll back therefore really a safety aid more than a driver aid. Just like such voodoo as ABS, ASR etc etc
I never looked for it on the DUF because I didn’t even think about it nor feel I needed it any more than I would in a manual.
Stay in the 70’s Carry, you’re clearly not grasping these new fangled ideas. You know cars don’t have a choke now, I tell you man it’s the future and it’s craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyy
newmercman:
So Switchy, as you do a lot of long distance driving, what exactly is the benefit of having an autoshift on your jobMany hours of rolling along on the limiter in top gear, hardly a challenge to drop a cog here and there
For urban work, yes, but long distance, not necessary at all, sure, they’re a nice luxury, but that’s all they are in a long distance lorry, sometimes the luxury can be more trouble than it’s worth though
I’ll bet with you on the hill start thing, a bit of sensitivity on the right pedal achieves the same result as any clutch pedal
I hammer all over Europe in an I shift NMM and to be honest the difference is nominal. I can hammer away from a peage booth while putting my card away and making a brew
TBH I struggle to follow your logic on this, you’ve obviously been living with the moose fondlers to long 
The auto just does something for you or with the flick of a switch does something for you with no effort, it’s really as simple as that. In the same way power steering reduces the physical input required to point the beast. By your logic a truck that does long distance minimal urban work could do without power steering It’s just another thing that reduces effort, like eleccy windows, power brakes etc etc.
The bit that I honestly thought you of all people would understand, given your previous penchant for relieving folks hard earned in exchange for recycled u boats , is that a truck has to be capable of all things and for example Switchys motor may in 3 or 4 years be box jockeying around London. The truck has to be capable of all duties and to be honest I find the autos to be no penalty at all on distance. It’s just one less thing to do simple as that. Thus freeing a hand for coffee holding
I suppose the difference for me is I don’t get all wound out and consider it deskilling my job when they in fact are making it easier.
I have no problem with driving an autoshift, my Stralis’sssssss had it and they were good to me, no driveline problems at all, I had an I Shift in an FH, again it was good to me, nice to drive and never let me down, but then I’ve never had a gearbox let me down
Except, like my good friend Mr Sheet with a clutch in a Transcon, I got that back from revision in Villamaya by starting it in gear, even managed a rush hour around the Boulevard Peripherique and I know for a fact that had that happened in one of my Stralis’sssss or that FH I would’ve been writing out a big cheque to a Spanish main dealer
I do like the autoshifts, but I don’t think they’re necessary on a long distance lorry
newmercman:
I have no problem with driving an autoshift, my Stralis’sssssss had it and they were good to me, no driveline problems at all, I had an I Shift in an FH, again it was good to me, nice to drive and never let me down, but then I’ve never had a gearbox let me downExcept, like my good friend Mr Sheet with a clutch in a Transcon, I got that back from revision in Villamaya by starting it in gear, even managed a rush hour around the Boulevard Peripherique and I know for a fact that had that happened in one of my Stralis’sssss or that FH I would’ve been writing out a big cheque to a Spanish main dealer
I do like the autoshifts, but I don’t think they’re necessary on a long distance lorry
I’ve limped a 112 back from Ferrol when then master went on it, including backing onto the Coutances at Cherbourg but that was 20 years ago
No such thing as a long distance lorry anymore. What goes to Barcelona also goes to Birmingham and probably for a better rate 
Whats all this then nmm & Billybig rig I had bragging rights a couple pages back on driving with no clutch
Thanks for all them Driving lessons Carryfast never use one word when 20 will do, by the way them 15.6mtr Trailers still dont have arse end swing
billybigrig:
You know cars don’t have a choke now, I tell you man it’s the future and it’s craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyy
So I dont need to keep a clothes peg in the car to hold the choke out anymore?