Hi, Juddian
I agree with your comments, as a good driver we should be able to take these things in our stride,and should I say drivers of possibly our generation(Don’t know how old you are or when you started Juddian) have learnt this with the equipment we had and then progressed onto. But in the last few years the bias has been, whether we like it or not ,towards auto’s,so the newer generations have no seat of the pants experience to fall back on. If they had to take an old two stick beaver out with a 4-in- line behind and no ABS or any other gadgets, they would probably rethink their career choice after a few arse twitching moments. The more experienced of us ,however should be able to take the new ideas and adapt and not get into too much trouble because we know what causes the arse twitching moments, cause we have been there.
As I said , in general I agree with your comments.
Cheers Bassman
Hi, Juddian
I agree with your comments, as a good driver we should be able to take these things in our stride,and should I say drivers of possibly our generation(Don’t know how old you are or when you started Juddian) have learnt this with the equipment we had and then progressed onto. But in the last few years the bias has been, whether we like it or not ,towards auto’s,so the newer generations have no seat of the pants experience to fall back on. If they had to take an old two stick beaver out with a 4-in- line behind and no ABS or any other gadgets, they would probably rethink their career choice after a few arse twitching moments. The more experienced of us ,however should be able to take the new ideas and adapt and not get into too much trouble because we know what causes the arse twitching moments, cause we have been there.
As I said , in general I agree with your comments.
Cheers Bassman
geoffthecrowtaylor:
I like your cmments there Juddian my sentiments exactly so we ve got it in cruise control ,retarder preselected steering with our knees and reading the paper no wonder so many needless accidents well said Crow.
No I think that would also come under the heading of too much multi tasking for a modern day driver to handle like steering through a bend while downshifting sequentially through the gears and checking the mirrors while approaching some traffic lights. 
Although to be fair it wasn’t unheard of for an old 1960’s heap with 6 speed DB box to have a piece of wood or whatever jammed against the accelerator padal acting as 1960’s cruise control while the driver was busy with sorting out another roll up with one hand and pouring a cup of tea from the thermos flask with the other.Althoug it probably wasn’t fast enough to catch anything to hit anyway.Although those stories might just all be a myth.
newmercman:
Carryfast, everyting on the lorry is electric now, brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox and they all communicate with each other, that’s the main thing that allows I Shift etc to function. The problems arise from any one of those sensors not doing its job 100%, then you start getting faults and they become a PITA to driveOne of the problems at a roundabout could be that the rear air suspension sensors detect a lower weight due to heavy braking making the weight shift forward, so they go for a higher gear when the driver suddenly slams his right boot to the carpet to pull into a gap that just appeared
I know but with all that electric bollox and time and expense and effort spent on development of automated boxes they’ve still managed to forget to put that input shaft speed sensor in the loop together with the crankshaft sensor to avoid the scenario of too much clutch slip and therefore a burnt out clutch.Which just employing a decent driver would have done without all the aggro anyway. 
Auto boxes are absolute ■■■■■■ Not much for drivers to do anymore so probably accounts for the ammount of morons driving artics now. I shouldn’t have even looked at this thread as I am at ■■■■ boiling point now!
Get rid of auto ■■■■■■ 
Some more great points here. Yes trucks have got a lot easier to drive with autos traction control abs and all the other things and it is possible to feel a bit cocconed from danger in the nice warm quiet comfortable cabs compared to ones of years gone by. But the fact remains all this stuff doesn’t beat the laws of gravity and physics or mother nature so a good driver will work with this stuff and use it to make life easier for themselves.
I must admit there does seem to be a lot more ■■■■ heads driving lorrys these days though. Look at lorrys rolling over yes maybe the very occasional freak weather we have a lorry can get blown over and there’s nothing any driver can do to stop it but come flying up to a roundabout slam the brakes on and be still traveling to fast gravity will defeat all the electrickery.
The other common thing we have is the lorry running in to the back of the vehicle in front. People blame limiters making it boring car drivers cutting in at the last second and all sorts but the fact remains if you hit a vehicle up the arse you was traveling to fast for the road conditions. That’s bad driving not the flat of the electrics controlling the truck.
The more experienced of us ,however should be able to take the new ideas and adapt and not get into too much trouble because we know what causes the arse twitching moments, cause we have been there.You’ve hit the nail on the head there Bassman,brilliant comment.
Quite right Tony /Bassman. Dont know what it takes to pass Class 1 these days but took mine 1974 & if Id Changed gear as an auto does i would have failed, roundabouts , dropping downhill, coming to corners, dropping out of gear, calling it Eco (we called it aberdeen overdrive) etc, etc . We were taught to be in right gear at right time if you changed gear while mid roundabout or taking a corner you would have failed, however as has been said on earlier posts commonsense & thoughtfull use of autos in auto & manual mode they are great & here to stay thats a fact. It makes me laugh when I here a driver say I leave mine in auto all the time, in my humble, not a good driver. Although the new Merc wasn,t to bad in most situations
I’ve also got no idea what it takes to pass a class 1today Greek,I took mine in 1972.My brother “the crow” never even took a hgv driving test,he got his by grandfather rights after driving in the army.We as a family have always been around lorries,my father was a lorry driver at one time and my uncle owned his own small company.I remember when I was a child he had Thames 4d’s and 6d’s later changed for Thames Traders.As we all know lorries were a lot different then-you had to drive them properly or suffer the consequenses.Common sense is and always has been the order of the day,and we must all adapt to new innovations or be left behind to suffer the same fate as the Dodo.(or C/F)
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Carryfast, everyting on the lorry is electric now, brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox and they all communicate with each other, that’s the main thing that allows I Shift etc to function. The problems arise from any one of those sensors not doing its job 100%, then you start getting faults and they become a PITA to driveOne of the problems at a roundabout could be that the rear air suspension sensors detect a lower weight due to heavy braking making the weight shift forward, so they go for a higher gear when the driver suddenly slams his right boot to the carpet to pull into a gap that just appeared
I know but with all that electric bollox and time and expense and effort spent on development of automated boxes they’ve still managed to forget to put that input shaft speed sensor in the loop together with the crankshaft sensor to avoid the scenario of too much clutch slip and therefore a burnt out clutch.Which just employing a decent driver would have done without all the aggro anyway.
Of course they have them you [zb]ing clown. The gearbox has all kinds of shaft sensors for input/output speed and torque. That’s how it knows what to do. As NMM has tried to educate you, a clutch is engineered to slip to soften the take up between something moving and something that isn’t
The point is just like a manual the motor can be held on the clutch which, in this instance, is being done by right boot position instead of left and right. If the driver chooses to do this what do you suggest the auto should do ■■ de clutch and let it roll back or fully engage and throw it forward ■■? Or allow the driver to hold it slipping the clutch like so many ■■■■■■■ drivers do. It allows you to hold it is the answer your struggling to google/grasp seeing as you have no relevant practical knowledge to call upon. They usually shout and flash at you pretty quick as it senses the heat build up in the plates. 
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Carryfast, everyting on the lorry is electric now, brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox and they all communicate with each other, that’s the main thing that allows I Shift etc to function. The problems arise from any one of those sensors not doing its job 100%, then you start getting faults and they become a PITA to driveOne of the problems at a roundabout could be that the rear air suspension sensors detect a lower weight due to heavy braking making the weight shift forward, so they go for a higher gear when the driver suddenly slams his right boot to the carpet to pull into a gap that just appeared
I know but with all that electric bollox and time and expense and effort spent on development of automated boxes they’ve still managed to forget to put that input shaft speed sensor in the loop together with the crankshaft sensor to avoid the scenario of too much clutch slip and therefore a burnt out clutch.Which just employing a decent driver would have done without all the aggro anyway.
The point is just like a manual the motor can be held on the clutch which, in this instance, is being done by right boot position instead of left and right. If the driver chooses to do this what do you suggest the auto should do ■■ de clutch and let it roll back or fully engage and throw it forward ■■? Or allow the driver to hold it slipping the clutch like so many [zb] drivers do. It allows you to hold it is the answer your struggling to google/grasp seeing as you have no relevant practical knowledge to call upon. They usually shout and flash at you pretty quick as it senses the heat build up in the plates.
When I asked him what it all consisted of he didn’t say zb all about any input shaft speed sensor.All he said was crankshaft and accelerator if he’d have said all that I wouldn’t have raised the issue. 
But,if you’re right,then all the thing needs to do when it senses excessive slip,because a zb driver is trying to either hold the thing on the clutch and/or give it too much right foot on clutch engagement,is apply the brakes and de clutch it using all those so called electric gizmos in the system just like an average driver with a bit of common sense would do.However according to nmm that situation would actually fry the clutch just like the total muppet of a driver would do that the thing seems to be designed for and would actually be no better than in that case ‘if’ nmm was right. 
Either he’s wrong and you’re right or vice versa you can’t both be right on this issue as he described it.
But the fact that you seem to think that a clutch is designed to be slipped to the point of actually holding a truck on it using that slippage says everything.
Hi, All
We’re a long time getting away from this standing start on this hill, I don’t know how many clutches we’ve knackered , I’ve lost count!
Cheers Bassman
I’ve no idea what they do when they’re being abused CF. I know there is a warning on my I shift as I read it in the manual I’ve never managed to trigger that, despite a lot of exceptionally slow maneuvering/creeping slower than a full clutch engagement would allow even uphill, let alone enough to see what fail safes there are if any
Tony Taylor:
I’ve also got no idea what it takes to pass a class 1today Greek,I took mine in 1972.My brother “the crow” never even took a hgv driving test,he got his by grandfather rights after driving in the army.We as a family have always been around lorries,my father was a lorry driver at one time and my uncle owned his own small company.I remember when I was a child he had Thames 4d’s and 6d’s later changed for Thames Traders.As we all know lorries were a lot different then-you had to drive them properly or suffer the consequenses.Common sense is and always has been the order of the day,and we must all adapt to new innovations or be left behind to suffer the same fate as the Dodo.(or C/F)
But in my case I’d probably get drivers like Fly Sheet applying for the job because I’m still speccing mine with an 18 speed fuller whereas someone who’s specced theirs with an auto will obviously get someone who prefers autos.Bearing in mind that we’re talking about long distance haulage not urban tipper,dust cart or bus operation in which case I’d go for a proper torque converter set up not a zb’d up manual with a computer trying to do the job of driving it.
C/F,if anything of what you is correct,then how do you account for Bassman’s I shift doing 700,000 kms “creeping” on and off building sites without burning out the clutch? Please answer that (sensibly)
Bassman:
Hi, AllWe’re a long time getting away from this standing start on this hill, I don’t know how many clutches we’ve knackered , I’ve lost count!
Cheers Bassman
It’s the eggs you should be worried about.It’s catch 22 if it works no breakfast and the clutch survives and if it doesn’t it’s fried clutch and/or crushed car which we’re also going to park behind the truck but look on the bright side it’s scrambled eggs and bacon for breakfast.
Tony Taylor:
C/F,if anything of what you is correct,then how do you account for Bassman’s I shift doing 700,000 kms “creeping” on and off building sites without burning out the clutch? Please answer that (sensibly)
Because he’s obviously a decent driver who probably would have had no trouble at all with the proper fuller that would have been in something like the Foden used on the same job in the 1980’s etc.However if it’s just for driver convenience in an all urban environment ok.But if it’s all about the type of muppet that the idea of automated manual seems to be designed for,then maybe things wouldn’t have looked so good.In which case an Allison torque converter type would probably be a better idea for the job on both counts anyway.It seems like they’re using the urban environment issue and muppet driver issue to force autos onto decent drivers who don’t want or need them on distance haulage type jobs in which case the fuller is (should still be) the transmission of choice on the basis of it ain’t broke so why fix it.
I’ll leave somebody else to reply to that load of hogs wash C/F.I’m not going to lower myself to your level,it’s impossible to have a sensible discussion with the likes of you.Stay in your Fuller dream world.Nothing that any-one else has posted on this thread to enlighten you and educate you has made any impact on your biggoted, blinkered view of modern transport.Just one more thing,I’m willing to bet that you have never even driven an automatic gear box truck.
or any truck 
hej benkku 
I heard today that Maritime have gone back to manuals on their 105 xfs nobody liked the autos … Just saying