I got called a mug today

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

dieseldog999:
how about the concept of…if these people were not in the country,there would be jobs available for the indigenous population and the emloyers would have to at least pay minimum wage with all the usual regulations,hence helping to remove unemployment.
the cost of products would not go up,the only loss would be to the middle men who would have no imports to utilize.
if there were jobs available at at least minimum wage,then the dole hoppers would be made to take them or lose their giros.
the employers for the food pickers ect would need to have some sort of dangling carrot to entice employees to start working and stay working…win win for the indigenous uk population.

Spot On DD.

The government has had a cheap food policy for a long time now so it will always support slavery in the food production process. Same applies to the food distribution process as evidenced at the RDC gaols.

Simple fix as you said, pay a proper wage to British workers and inform over powerful Tesco et al that the housewife now pays a few pence more for fresh, home grown fruit and veg. It may mean she has do do with one less bottle of plonk in her trolley every other month which might be no bad thing either.

22

edd1974:
Do.you think ee drivers will leave and there will be a. Shortage after brexit (if it even happens) ?

If that happens then places like Fowler Welch’s Spalding depot are going to be well in the crap. It could be a good time to buy a unit and do traction services pulling trailers for companies like FW.

23

Franglais:

waddy640:
The point is that this practice has gone on for years and no one has any incentive to change it and until we secure our borders it will continue.

“Secure out borders”!
See what Michael Gove says about that. Gove is of course a keen Brexiteer, and currently at DEFRA.
He has said to farmers in Feb this year that the lack of Romanian and Polish field workers should not be a worry to them. Just import (even cheaper) labour from further away, such as the Ukraine!
This is the “competitive, free market, global economy” world HE is looking forward to.

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This is the confusing bit for me Franglais.

“Take back control of our borders they said” yet they want to stop only EE’s coming but increase the current flow from Indian sub-continent, Africa and Soviet Block.

Why■■? At least the EE’s are better qualified and work very well and fit in well too (the odd swan excepted).

Is it because of EU minimum wage and other pay & condition obligations that apply to all workers while part of the EU??

Chrisdalott:
The government has already decided to go back to using the seasonal workers scheme for farm workers and pickers.

So the people of Wisbech and the like who voted out by large margin in the country, because of their towns being taken over by east Europeans, well they’ll be getting Ukrainian, Filipinos, Africans and who knows who to replace them.

They will only be allowed to stay in the country for six months work, then leave, oh of course they will.

What choice is there because they can’t get British people to pick vegetables, or drive trucks for that matter

DD also described this exact type of scenario above.

If this is the end game of “The Toffs” so aptly described by Darkside then we are looking at the biggest scam in modern history so that the rich and well connected can get richer while British Working Conditions & Renumeration race towards the third world.

Please tell me it ain’t so Joe.

24

In the fifties we recruited from the Commonwealth to overcome our labour shortage.

25

Here’s a few disjointed and confused thoughts. Maybe link a few things together to make what is a jumbled up world… Even less easy to understand?

We haven’t always lived in a Capitalist society. It’s only been a hundred years or so that we’ve been organised into formal companies with bosses and workers clearly demarcated.
The original idea of Limited (LIABILITY) Companies was to encourage investment in larger scale outfits such as the railways. It worked well. Cash invested for gain in the long term. But now too much emphasis is placed on short term gain with no thought of effects. Some shareholders are the pension schemes we rely on. And their choices could put us out of a job! Some shareholders have allegiance to no one country. They are migrants who are welcome everywhere, unlike poorer ones.
Capitalism as it stands today needs an ever increasing population to fuel demand for goods and services. If we don’t produce enough kids we MUST get in immigrants to fuel demand.
Capitalism, as it exists, is like a Ponzi scheme, or pyramid selling. It is unsustainable.
It’s done us OK so far, and I’ve done nicely, thank you, but it’s not going to carry on forever. No system does.

Another issue is automation of course. Capitalism as it exists today, won’t be very successful if technology puts us all on the dole!

Clearly those who are winners in the current system won’t be clamouring for change any time soon. And we can all work out for ourselves who they are. But since those with the money tend to be those with power it won’t be an easy ride for anyone.

And following on from that, those in power today are less concerned about climate change than they should be. I’ll be dead before my house is flooded, but I do care about the way things are going.

I’m not coming at this from some ideological point saying I have any answers. Nor do I think these issues are going to change the face of our world tomorrow, or the next day, but they will affect the following generations.

To repeat this isn’t a piece for any one party or point of view, just pointing to a few issues all coming together, and all tied in to a world changing rapidly.

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26

dieseldog999:
how about the concept of…if these people were not in the country,there would be jobs available for the indigenous population and the emloyers would have to at least pay minimum wage with all the usual regulations,hence helping to remove unemployment.
the cost of products would not go up,the only loss would be to the middle men who would have no imports to utilize.
if there were jobs available at at least minimum wage,then the dole hoppers would be made to take them or lose their giros.
the employers for the food pickers ect would need to have some sort of dangling carrot to entice employees to start working and stay working…win win for the indigenous uk population.

While benefits are being paid brits will not work, I gave up driving 5 years ago but for my last summer I drove for a market gardener in my village from April until November they employed about 40 people all from abroad apart from the manager. The staff came back every year from Poland and got paid the minimum wage plus piece work most got around £16 per hour, every so often the job centre would send a brit they usually lasted about one morning because they was better off at home and would not work.

27

Farmer “Hello, is that Tesco? Got some lovely veg from Holbeach, locally picked”

Tesco: How much?

Farmer “££££”

Tesco: Get it cheaper from Kenya, goodbye!

dieseldog999:
how about the concept of…if these people were not in the country,there would be jobs available for the indigenous population and the emloyers would have to at least pay minimum wage with all the usual regulations,hence helping to remove unemployment.
the cost of products would not go up,the only loss would be to the middle men who would have no imports to utilize.
if there were jobs available at at least minimum wage,then the dole hoppers would be made to take them or lose their giros.
the employers for the food pickers ect would need to have some sort of dangling carrot to entice employees to start working and stay working…win win for the indigenous uk population.

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28

Didn’t get on this game for tenner mate. A year of driving class 1, 6 months taking 900 1000 home, yes lots of hours, yes ltd, yes HMRC may come bla bla, I would not be driving a truck for less than that

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29

Some of you lot are ■■■■ priceless. :unamused:
A guy comes on makes a valid point of how we’re perceived as mugs by those who are on proper t.s and c.s, proper hours and proper wages.
So you all predictably jump on the ‘‘Blame the foreigners’’ bandwagon. :unamused:

Wake the ■■■■ up,… ok I agree that the foreigners definitely exacerbated the problem, but the problem was there long before they rocked up. :bulb:

(On a side note they’ve done nothing different to us when we went to chase the Dutch Guilder in the 90s :bulb: ,… I don’t recall as much bile and hostility off the Dutch at that time tbh. :bulb: )

So instead of blaming yourselves for being conned into scrapping the 40 hours + time and a half, and opting for a much higher straight through rate, thinking it would increase every year (but did not, instead falling to a lower hourly rate to what you were on originally, and staying that way stagnating for years)… let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for just going along with that without sticking together and saying 'Hang on we’ve fallen behind here, we need more money…let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for being so ■■■■ docile and servile, and letting yourselves be pushed to the limits and ran ragged, and assisting this with all this ‘‘Crack on’’ and ‘‘Keep it lit’’ Dog ■■■■, …let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of asking why you don’t get pay raise after your boss witnesses your bottomless pit of cash you have spent on making his trucks look good with 2ks worth of spots and tat (and trading your hols for all that crap :open_mouth: )…let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for terms decaying by you bending over readily lubed, to the point of having ■■■■ in cab cameras, but even worse… some of you actually and embarrasingly repeating the corporate crap you’ve been fed about ‘‘for your own good’’ and then coming out with the classic ‘‘If you’re doing nothing wrong, what’s the problem’’ :open_mouth: :unamused: …lets blame the foreigners.

Driver’s = Own worst enemies. :bulb:
And they NEVER cease to amaze me for as ling as I’ve done this job

2 days of parking up and saying ‘‘Enough is enough’, excess hours (the root of all this) wants sorting, and pay brought into line’’ would show the country how valuable an asset this industry is.
The guys on decent money look after themselves, the truth hurts to some on here, but those are mostly Union based firms, and the dilemna comes about by saying ''Why should we down tools for those on lesser money,… and tbf I see their point.

I have also worked for mega buck firms in the past, but am also guilty in settling for a quiet life but second rate wages, knowing there aint a chance in hell of our lot sticking together to sort it.
So guilty as charged in the mug stakes I reckon.

So mugs?
Probably so, but the answer is in your own hands, so quit whinging about ■■■■ foreign drivers (aka making yourselves feel better about yourselves), and sort the ■■■■ situation out as one body…won’t hold my breath.

30

robroy:
Some of you lot are [zb] priceless. :unamused:
A guy comes on makes a valid point of how we’re perceived as mugs by those who are on proper t.s and c.s, proper hours and proper wages.
So you all predictably jump on the ‘‘Blame the foreigners’’ bandwagon. :unamused:

Wake the [zb] up,… ok I agree that the foreigners definitely exacerbated the problem, but the problem was there long before they rocked up. :bulb:

(On a side note they’ve done nothing different to us when we went to chase the Dutch Guilder in the 90s :bulb: ,… I don’t recall as much bile and hostility off the Dutch at that time tbh. :bulb: )

So instead of blaming yourselves for being conned into scrapping the 40 hours + time and a half, and opting for a much higher straight through rate, thinking it would increase every year (but did not, instead falling to a lower hourly rate to what you were on originally, and staying that way stagnating for years)… let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for just going along with that without sticking together and saying 'Hang on we’ve fallen behind here, we need more money…let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for being so [zb] docile and servile, and letting yourselves be pushed to the limits and ran ragged, and assisting this with all this ‘‘Crack on’’ and ‘‘Keep it lit’’ Dog [zb], …let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of asking why you don’t get pay raise after your boss witnesses your bottomless pit of cash you have spent on making his trucks look good with 2ks worth of spots and tat (and trading your hols for all that crap :open_mouth: )…let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for terms decaying by you bending over readily lubed, to the point of having [zb] in cab cameras, but even worse… some of you actually and embarrasingly repeating the corporate crap you’ve been fed about ‘‘for your own good’’ and then coming out with the classic ‘‘If you’re doing nothing wrong, what’s the problem’’ :open_mouth: :unamused: …lets blame the foreigners.

Driver’s = Own worst enemies. :bulb:
And they NEVER cease to amaze me for as lirng as I’ve done this job

2 days of parking up and saying ‘‘Enough is enough’, excess hours (the root of all this) wants sorting, and pay brought into line’’ would show the country how valuable an asset this industry is.
The guys on decent money look after themselves, the truth hurts to some on here, but those are mostly Union based firms, and the dilemna comes about by saying ''Why should we down tools for those on lesser money,… and tbf I see their point.

I have also worked for mega buck firms in the past, but am also guilty in settling for a quiet life but second rate wages, knowing there aint a chance in hell of our lot sticking together to sort it.
So guilty as charged in the mug stakes I reckon.

So mugs?
Probably so, but the answer is in your own hands, so quit whinging about [zb] foreign drivers (aka making yourselves feel better about yourselves), and sort the [zb] situation out as one body…won’t hold my breath.

Well said that man
+1

31

3 wheeler:

robroy:
Some of you lot are [zb] priceless. :unamused:
A guy comes on makes a valid point of how we’re perceived as mugs by those who are on proper t.s and c.s, proper hours and proper wages.
So you all predictably jump on the ‘‘Blame the foreigners’’ bandwagon. :unamused:

Wake the [zb] up,… ok I agree that the foreigners definitely exacerbated the problem, but the problem was there long before they rocked up. :bulb:

(On a side note they’ve done nothing different to us when we went to chase the Dutch Guilder in the 90s :bulb: ,… I don’t recall as much bile and hostility off the Dutch at that time tbh. :bulb: )

So instead of blaming yourselves for being conned into scrapping the 40 hours + time and a half, and opting for a much higher straight through rate, thinking it would increase every year (but did not, instead falling to a lower hourly rate to what you were on originally, and staying that way stagnating for years)… let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for just going along with that without sticking together and saying 'Hang on we’ve fallen behind here, we need more money…let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for being so [zb] docile and servile, and letting yourselves be pushed to the limits and ran ragged, and assisting this with all this ‘‘Crack on’’ and ‘‘Keep it lit’’ Dog [zb], …let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of asking why you don’t get pay raise after your boss witnesses your bottomless pit of cash you have spent on making his trucks look good with 2ks worth of spots and tat (and trading your hols for all that crap :open_mouth: )…let’s blame the foreigners.

Instead of blaming yourselves for terms decaying by you bending over readily lubed, to the point of having [zb] in cab cameras, but even worse… some of you actually and embarrasingly repeating the corporate crap you’ve been fed about ‘‘for your own good’’ and then coming out with the classic ‘‘If you’re doing nothing wrong, what’s the problem’’ :open_mouth: :unamused: …lets blame the foreigners.

Driver’s = Own worst enemies. :bulb:
And they NEVER cease to amaze me for as lirng as I’ve done this job

2 days of parking up and saying ‘‘Enough is enough’, excess hours (the root of all this) wants sorting, and pay brought into line’’ would show the country how valuable an asset this industry is.
The guys on decent money look after themselves, the truth hurts to some on here, but those are mostly Union based firms, and the dilemna comes about by saying ''Why should we down tools for those on lesser money,… and tbf I see their point.

I have also worked for mega buck firms in the past, but am also guilty in settling for a quiet life but second rate wages, knowing there aint a chance in hell of our lot sticking together to sort it.
So guilty as charged in the mug stakes I reckon.

So mugs?
Probably so, but the answer is in your own hands, so quit whinging about [zb] foreign drivers (aka making yourselves feel better about yourselves), and sort the [zb] situation out as one body…won’t hold my breath.

Well said that man
+1

+2

My boy is 21 and is pulling circa £30k (basic) as an air con engineer, double time overtime, free use of van etc…
Plenty of foreign lads working in his trade, but doesn’t affect the wages. Plumbers, plasterers etc won’t work cheap…

The t’s and c’s drivers accept, have very little to do with foreign labour.

32

Beautifuly put top man

33

I wish you’d get off that fence Rob and tell us how you really feel man!

34

I think Franglais has hit the mark -
We’re like the proverbial frog being slowly poached without realising what’s going on… we have all been gradually conditioned to believe that capitalism as it currently exists, is the ‘natural order of things’ and that there are no alternatives. Surely an advanced species such as ourselves can come up with a system that serves us, rather than us serving the system (and those who benefit from the system).
The correlation between a person’s societal value and their monetary value has been totally dislocated and this will have to be addressed before things can truly change.
I don’t know about you, but I can live with the fact that the guy who owns/runs/takes responsibility for the company earns more that me.
Even if he earns 2, 3 or 4 times my salary, I can accept that. But how can it be justified when a company executive earns perhaps 100x the average employee’s wage ? Does that reflect his value to society ? I doubt it.

35

When I contacted a company in Norfolk a few years ago about a driving job I was told “We prefer not to employ English people” and she was English.

36

Anglo-Nubian and Robroy, both spot on.

I’ve been working 40yrs now and have watched the pay disparity grow year by year. I’d happily spit on Thatcher’s grave but have to admit her plan starting with the breakup then demonisation of the unions leading to a subordinate and more controllable society to the benefit of the social elite has worked a treat.

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37

robroy:
Instead of asking why you don’t get pay raise after your boss witnesses your bottomless pit of cash you have spent on making his trucks look good with 2ks worth of spots and tat (and trading your hols for all that crap :open_mouth: )…let’s blame the foreigners.

People actually do that■■?

38

Vid:

robroy:
Instead of asking why you don’t get pay raise after your boss witnesses your bottomless pit of cash you have spent on making his trucks look good with 2ks worth of spots and tat (and trading your hols for all that crap :open_mouth: )…let’s blame the foreigners.

People actually do that■■?

Oh yes :neutral_face:

39

robroy:

Vid:

robroy:
Instead of asking why you don’t get pay raise after your boss witnesses your bottomless pit of cash you have spent on making his trucks look good with 2ks worth of spots and tat (and trading your hols for all that crap :open_mouth: )…let’s blame the foreigners.

People actually do that■■?

Oh yes :neutral_face:

Chap at my place has just spent £100 on a lightboard for the back of the bunk with the company logo. I was quite harsh with him!

40

As a follow on to Munchkin’s comment above,when Thatcher died a village near us wa s on TV showing their bonfire burning her image to vent their distress at her passing.We would still like to dig her up and bury her again.Not that we are bitter.