If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs said what they should say it would be the wicket sign which is put out at least 1 mile from the closure which provides plenty of time to merge before reaching the cones without having to slow down and the idiot with a shovel sign put at 800 yds.
If you’re going to exit a motorway and the sign says exit 1 mile would you wait until the 200 yds countdown marker post before starting to move over and merge into the inside lane to exit although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4
They’re only ‘numpties’ because the average motorist is poorly governed by a clueless government that chooses to prioritise running the world & kow-towing to Brussels ahead of clueing up its own citizens!
They’re only ‘numpties’ because the average motorist is poorly governed by a clueless government that chooses to prioritise running the world & kow-towing to Brussels ahead of clueing up its own citizens!
I do find the fact you blame the government for absolutely everything quite entertaining! If you trip over your own shoe laces it’s probably the governments fault for not producing a how to tie your laces booklet followed up by a weekly class. Are you a Soviet style communist because you do seem to want the government to control everything.
Happy Keith:
‘… a Cameron endorsed Brussels Directive which no-one democratically wanted or needed…’
‘…There’s no Brussels directives which tell the stupid Brits to put out a sign with a bloke with a shovel at a mile before lane closures and then tell us which lanes are shut at 800 yds. In just the same way that the fact that I can drive on an unlimited motorway in Germany but not here has got zb all to do with Brussels…’
But Cameron would kow-tow if there were a Directive - like he is obliged to under the Lisbon sell-out. That’s where the governmental priority lies!
Besides, Belgians & Germans have different social standards & governance for their roads which already work. The Belgique & Deutsche plod have support from their leaders about how to run their roads efficiently, ie, they stamp on antisocial behaviour where it is seen. Our liberally minded ‘leaders’ (of all pro-EU parties) simply leave our roads to sort themselves out because they don’t consider it an issue, but we as driving professionals - as well as a lot of stress ridden motorists, clearly see the problem as worth addressing.
They’re only ‘numpties’ because the average motorist is poorly governed by a clueless government that chooses to prioritise running the world & kow-towing to Brussels ahead of clueing up its own citizens!
It’s got nothing to do with being poorly governed by a clueless government you’ve only got to read the arguments put up here by the merge at the last moment lot to understand that the problem is all in many drivers’ own logic and thought process.
The fact that the government see it as more of a priority to tell us that there’s going to be a roadworks a mile ahead and then which lanes are closing down at 800 yds is more a reflection of how they see British drivers being able to handle anything better.
Which is probably the same reason why driving at 140 mph in lane 4 of a motorway will get someone a prison sentence but driving in it at the same speed as the traffic in lane 1 is travelling at (probably based on the logic of ‘utilising’ all the available road space ) won’t.
switchlogic:
Jesus have you been to Belgium and seen their roads?! It the Belgian police stamped out antisocial behaviour on the roads nobody would be driving.
If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs said what they should say it would be the wicket sign which is put out at least 1 mile from the closure which provides plenty of time to merge before reaching the cones without having to slow down and the idiot with a shovel sign put at 800 yds.
If you’re going to exit a motorway and the sign says exit 1 mile would you wait until the 200 yds countdown marker post before starting to move over and merge into the inside lane to exit although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4
Answer the question, no waffle about sliproads, when do you move over?
hammer:
If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, when do you move over into the left lane?
Most roadworks have a reduction in speed limit which, in most cases, especially when traffic is not very light, causes a significant slowing down way back from the actual reduction due to the shockwave effect
What if getting into lane 1 early causes a longer queue which in turn blocks an off ramp?
We then end up with the extra traffic in that queue which would have otherwise got out of the way
Making fixed rules for merging in all circumstances will never work so all that can be done is to take each situation as it occurs and negotiate it as safely as possible which brings me back to what I said previously …
Simple basic rules: -
1 - If traffic is fast flowing towards a closure then move into open lane as early as possible
2 - If traffic has already slowed right down then use all available road space
If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs said what they should say it would be the wicket sign which is put out at least 1 mile from the closure which provides plenty of time to merge before reaching the cones without having to slow down and the idiot with a shovel sign put at 800 yds.
If you’re going to exit a motorway and the sign says exit 1 mile would you wait until the 200 yds countdown marker post before starting to move over and merge into the inside lane to exit although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4
Answer the question, no waffle about sliproads, when do you move over?
The reference to slip roads is relevant and when the exit sign,or wicket sign,says 1 mile that’s as good a place as any to start the process of merging.The process of observation and lane changing is’nt done instantaneously and takes time and space if it’s done without slowing down.It’s when that process is started too late that causes slowing down to avoid missing the exit slip or running out of road at the cones and it’s that slowing down that causes cutting in instead of proper merging and it’s that type of cutting in that causes the type of shunts and near misses at exit slips or lane closures or the type of jams described by ROG in the number 2 scenario.
If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs said what they should say it would be the wicket sign which is put out at least 1 mile from the closure which provides plenty of time to merge before reaching the cones without having to slow down and the idiot with a shovel sign put at 800 yds.
If you’re going to exit a motorway and the sign says exit 1 mile would you wait until the 200 yds countdown marker post before starting to move over and merge into the inside lane to exit although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4
Answer the question, no waffle about sliproads, when do you move over?
The reference to slip roads is relevant and when the exit sign,or wicket sign,says 1 mile that’s as good a place as any to start the process of merging.The process of observation and lane changing is’nt done instantaneously and takes time and space if it’s done without slowing down.It’s when that process is started too late that causes slowing down to avoid missing the exit slip or running out of road at the cones and it’s that slowing down that causes cutting in instead of proper merging and it’s that type of cutting in that causes the type of shunts and near misses at exit slips or lane closures or the type of jams described by ROG in the number 2 scenario.
So. If you’re in your superfast 140mph car, you come up to the mile marker for the slip road you want and there is one truck in the inside lane.
Do you pass him or sit behind him?
If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs said what they should say it would be the wicket sign which is put out at least 1 mile from the closure which provides plenty of time to merge before reaching the cones without having to slow down and the idiot with a shovel sign put at 800 yds.
If you’re going to exit a motorway and the sign says exit 1 mile would you wait until the 200 yds countdown marker post before starting to move over and merge into the inside lane to exit although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4
Answer the question, no waffle about sliproads, when do you move over?
The reference to slip roads is relevant and when the exit sign,or wicket sign,says 1 mile that’s as good a place as any to start the process of merging.The process of observation and lane changing is’nt done instantaneously and takes time and space if it’s done without slowing down.It’s when that process is started too late that causes slowing down to avoid missing the exit slip or running out of road at the cones and it’s that slowing down that causes cutting in instead of proper merging and it’s that type of cutting in that causes the type of shunts and near misses at exit slips or lane closures or the type of jams described by ROG in the number 2 scenario.
So. If you’re in your superfast 140mph car, you come up to the mile marker for the slip road you want and there is one truck in the inside lane.
Do you pass him or sit behind him?
Obviously never overtaken a truck or approached a motorway exit at 140 mph if you need to ask the question .But to put it into perspective the type of speed differentials when you’re overtaking trucks with a fast car at around 150 mph + is just like driving on a motorway at around 100 mph+ with stationary trucks parked on it. Which is how that truck will look as you approach it so no you would’nt pull in behind it unless you want to become part of the trailer and if you’re going to exit the motorway ahead it’ll probably take most of that mile and definitely 1 km to change lanes safely and slow the thing down enough to join the slip road at a safe enough speed considering that there might be traffic on the slip road slowing down at around 20-30 mph.
But in the context of what I’ve been saying you’re overtaking traffic in whatever your car might be and you come up to the mile sign for the exit slip you want and there’s a line of traffic running at around 50 mph + on the inside lane would you wait until the 200 yd marker before starting to change lanes and merge.
If the signs say lane closed 1 mile, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs say lane closed 3 miles, when do you move over into the left lane?
If the signs said what they should say it would be the wicket sign which is put out at least 1 mile from the closure which provides plenty of time to merge before reaching the cones without having to slow down and the idiot with a shovel sign put at 800 yds.
If you’re going to exit a motorway and the sign says exit 1 mile would you wait until the 200 yds countdown marker post before starting to move over and merge into the inside lane to exit although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4
Answer the question, no waffle about sliproads, when do you move over?
The reference to slip roads is relevant and when the exit sign,or wicket sign,says 1 mile that’s as good a place as any to start the process of merging.The process of observation and lane changing is’nt done instantaneously and takes time and space if it’s done without slowing down.It’s when that process is started too late that causes slowing down to avoid missing the exit slip or running out of road at the cones and it’s that slowing down that causes cutting in instead of proper merging and it’s that type of cutting in that causes the type of shunts and near misses at exit slips or lane closures or the type of jams described by ROG in the number 2 scenario.
So. If you’re in your superfast 140mph car, you come up to the mile marker for the slip road you want and there is one truck in the inside lane.
Do you pass him or sit behind him?
Obviously never overtaken a truck or approached a motorway exit at 140 mph if you need to ask the question .But to put it into perspective the type of speed differentials when you’re overtaking trucks with a fast car at around 150 mph + is just like driving on a motorway at around 100 mph+ with stationary trucks parked on it. Which is how that truck will look as you approach it so no you would’nt pull in behind it unless you want to become part of the trailer and if you’re going to exit the motorway ahead it’ll probably take most of that mile and definitely 1 km to change lanes safely and slow the thing down enough to join the slip road at a safe enough speed considering that there might be traffic on the slip road slowing down at around 20-30 mph.
But in the context of what I’ve been saying you’re overtaking traffic in whatever your car might be and you come up to the mile sign for the exit slip you want and there’s a line of traffic running at around 50 mph + on the inside lane would you wait until the 200 yd marker before starting to change lanes and merge.
I never have but my mate has a few times. Any decent car or bike can get from 100+ down to stop on a standard motorway slip road on 2 wheels it’s even easier, so my Mate says.
‘…you’ve only got to read the arguments put up here by the merge at the last moment lot to understand that the problem is all in many drivers’ own logic and thought process…’
Exactly! We’ve been bullied into accepting ‘diversity’ within every sphere of UK life, so when it manifests with loads of confrontational opinions and ‘common sense’ [sic] ways to behave on the road - where are the leaders to quell the very evident discontent?
Meanwhile:
switchlogic:
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…numpties…’
‘…They’re only ‘numpties’ because …’ etc
‘…If you trip over your own shoe laces it’s probably the governments fault for not producing a how to tie your laces booklet followed up by a weekly class. Are you a Soviet style communist …?’
Oh please …I’ve given sufficient material and someone can’t spot a ■■■■, so the random guess (edited to add) about communism was 180 degrees wrong (edited to add) about me.
Strange to read of a fascination with shoe-laces: Were they taken away?
‘…you’ve only got to read the arguments put up here by the merge at the last moment lot to understand that the problem is all in many drivers’ own logic and thought process…’
Exactly! We’ve been bullied into accepting ‘diversity’ within every sphere of UK life, so when it manifests with loads of confrontational opinions and ‘common sense’ [sic] ways to behave on the road - where are the leaders to quell the very evident discontent?
Meanwhile:
switchlogic:
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…numpties…’
‘…They’re only ‘numpties’ because …’ etc
‘…If you trip over your own shoe laces it’s probably the governments fault for not producing a how to tie your laces booklet followed up by a weekly class. Are you a Soviet style communist …?’
Oh please …I’ve given sufficient material and someone can’t spot a ■■■■, so the random guess was 180 degrees wrong.
Strange to read of a fascination with shoe-laces: Were they taken away?
What on earth are you on about now? ■■■■’s?! And I don’t think one post constitutes a fascination.
‘…you’ve only got to read the arguments put up here by the merge at the last moment lot to understand that the problem is all in many drivers’ own logic and thought process…’
Exactly! We’ve been bullied into accepting ‘diversity’ within every sphere of UK life, so when it manifests with loads of confrontational opinions and ‘common sense’ [sic] ways to behave on the road - where are the leaders to quell the very evident discontent?
Meanwhile:
switchlogic:
Happy Keith:
Carryfast:
‘…numpties…’
‘…They’re only ‘numpties’ because …’ etc
‘…If you trip over your own shoe laces it’s probably the governments fault for not producing a how to tie your laces booklet followed up by a weekly class. Are you a Soviet style communist …?’
Oh please …I’ve given sufficient material and someone can’t spot a ■■■■, so the random guess was 180 degrees wrong.
Strange to read of a fascination with shoe-laces: Were they taken away?
What on earth are you on about now? ■■■■’s?! And I don’t think one post constitutes a fascination.
It was Hitler and Musso who invented motorways so it’s close .But don’t think even Hitler would have been mad enough to order drivers to use ROG’s number 2 idea.
Carryfast:
You’re right I can’t understand your logic because it is’nt logical.
The reason why there’s more bunching closer to the cones than further away from them is because as I’ve said more than enough times the speeds of the traffic remaining in the closed lanes has to get lower the closer it gets or it’ll run out of road.
It’s that speed reduction,and zb all to do with your unfounded complaints directed at the traffic in the open lanes,which causes all the traffic in all the lanes to reduce speed at an ever increasing rate to let all those idiots (and those who are’nt idiots but who’ve been caught out by the stupid road signing which only informs them which lane/s is/are closing when it’s too late) who’ve left it too late in the closed lanes,merge at a slow enough speed to prevent them running out of road.
But you obviously did’nt notice that I’m speaking as if I was driving a truck in the good old days before limiters and under those conditions you would have understood why it’s much better,and faster,to get the merging done as soon as possible instead of leaving it until the last 200,or even 800 yds.
But it’s not surprising that you’re speaking as if you are driving a car not a truck because in those days most,if not all,truck drivers would be able to understand my ideas,and the complaints which we made were mostly all directed at stupid car driving zb’s who left it until the last minute to merge at lane closures considering the speeds which we were running at and allowing for the road space and seperation distances required without some idiot car driving zb trying to merge into the side of the trailer and then find the idiot enough room by backing off to let him in before he ran out of road.
The conclusion seems to be that todays truck drivers are mostly a lot of (not very good) car drivers with the same ideas as those car drivers who we’d have viewed as numpties back then.That’s probably why today’s trucks are just dumbed down synchro or auto box speed limited things made to suit dumbed down drivers.
What causes me to slow down to avoid hitting the cones? Obviously there is something preventing me from merging into the open lane, what is that?
Carryfast:
But don’t think even Hitler would have been mad enough to order drivers to use ROG’s number 2 idea
Why? - Before replying please remember that is for slow moving traffic where a queue has already formed
As a rough guess ROG if you try to solve the situation of a queue that has already formed in the open lane (because of the numpties,doing a number 2 in a number 1 situation,who started it ) you’ll maybe shorten the actual length of the queue in the open lane by half etc by getting every one to queue up in the closed one/s but by doing so the merging procedure will be taking place at a speed of (much) more than two etc times less so it will take more than two times longer to clear the total backlog of traffic by trying to merge all of the crawling traffic than it would if they all just stayed in the open lane and wait for the running speed of the open lane to get back to normal which then returns the situation to number 1 .Which should be no less than the speed limit applying in the road works.I’ve wasted more than enough time over the years,stuck in number 2 situations,where everyone has taken your advice,to know that it’s number 1 that works every time.
There is a queue before a dualcarriageway lane closure. For whatever reason, everyone has gone into the left lane at the first advance warning sign, lets say 3miles out. The queue is moving very slowly (20mph-ish) but there is nothing in the right lane, nothing at all. You can see this as the road is dead straight.
although having said that plenty of numpties do probably on the basis that they don’t want to waste all that roadspace available in lanes 2,3,or 4 
to change lanes safely and slow the thing down enough to join the slip road at a safe enough speed considering that there might be traffic on the slip road slowing down at around 20-30 mph.