Carryfast:
‘…It ain’t rocket science because it’s common sense…’
Here’s an an advocate believing that there is commonality within diversity. How does that work when society is at each others throats then?
If sense was as common as suggested (ie ‘common sense’) there would be no need for this thread because we’d all share the same common standards - or is one suggesting that everyone should think like you?
Carryfast:
‘…the best legislation that they could make in this case would be to put out no overtaking signs and wicket signs long before the lane closures then everyone could get in the correct lane long before the point where everyone has to merge at crawling speed because the lot in the closed lane have run out of road…’
Have a chat - that would require leadership. Besides, the argument suggests that if lanes were cut down ‘…long before…’ they needed to be then surely it also suggests that the nation currently has excess lane space? Do you throw out your winter jacket at the first glimpse of warmth every springtime?
In general,for the purposes of this topic,the ‘lane space’ in question is only there for the purposes of overtaking.However there’s no way that anyone can use the lane space to overtake if the overtaking lane/s are closed ahead of them .
Which just leaves the question of how far before the closure does the advanced warning,informing the overtaking traffic that was using the overtaking lane/s,to cease overtaking and to merge with the traffic that it was overtaking,without that merging being carried out so late that the overtaking traffic has to slow down to merge because if it does’nt slow down it will run out of road.
At present the usual situation for lane closure signing is a picture of an idiot with a shovel at a mile from the cones then a wicket sign at around 800 yds.
The results of that are obvious every time that we get a lane closure/s on a motorway with average amounts of traffic using it.
Carryfast:
But the best legislation that they could make in this case would be to put out no overtaking signs and wicket signs long before the lane closures then everyone could get in the correct lane long before the point where everyone has to merge at crawling speed because the lot in the closed lane have run out of road.
Anyone then holding up the traffic by trying to merge too late should face a charge of failure to comply with road signs.
You still don’t get it do you?
The drivers on the left have to allow overtaking drivers on the right to merge at any point before the closure, even if they THINK the drivers on the right are very naughty by using all the road.
Merging works UNTIL the drivers on the left refuse to leave gaps.
But the difference if it’s done early is that the drivers on the left won’t have to slow down as much,if at all, to allow the traffic,that’s been overtaking them,to merge if that merging is done far enough before the closure for the traffic on the right not to have to slow down as it would do when it’s left it so late that if it does’nt slow up it’ll run out of road.
Happy Keith:
Do you throw out your winter jacket at the first glimpse of warmth every springtime?
I guess he does, and relies on his tin foil hat to keep him warm.
And probably in full accordance with a Cameron endorsed Brussels Directive which no-one democratically wanted or needed. After all, that would be ‘common’ too
There’s no Brussels directives which tell the stupid Brits to put out a sign with a bloke with a shovel at a mile before lane closures and then tell us which lanes are shut at 800 yds.In just the same way that the fact that I can drive on an unlimited motorway in Germany but not here has got zb all to do with Brussels.
Carryfast:
But the best legislation that they could make in this case would be to put out no overtaking signs and wicket signs long before the lane closures then everyone could get in the correct lane long before the point where everyone has to merge at crawling speed because the lot in the closed lane have run out of road.
Anyone then holding up the traffic by trying to merge too late should face a charge of failure to comply with road signs.
You still don’t get it do you?
The drivers on the left have to allow overtaking drivers on the right to merge at any point before the closure, even if they THINK the drivers on the right are very naughty by using all the road.
Merging works UNTIL the drivers on the left refuse to leave gaps.
But the difference if it’s done early is that the drivers on the left won’t have to slow down as much to allow the traffic,that’s been overtaking them,to merge if that merging is done far enough before the closure for the traffic on the right not to have to slow down as it would do when it’s left it so late that if it does’nt slow up it’ll run out of road.
This was covered earlier, but if you are all good boys & girls and pull in at 800 metres, that means you are wasting 800 metres of perfectly good and useable carriageway.
It is simple if there is a moving line of traffic 400 yards long and every vehicle lets one vehicle into a gap, the traffic keeps moving without much problem.
Forget Germany, the general speed limit is 81mph and unrestricted parts are still restricted by lorries and 2 lane motorways. Also the limits in towns and villages are much lower but car speed is for another forum.
German roadworks are generally segregated by lorries in the right hand lane and cars in the narrower left lanes
the drivers in the left lane don’t seem to leave a gap to let anyone in, no wonder people have to go right up to the cones If people left a safe gap between them and the car infront then overtaking cars would be able to pull in and adjust there speed to that of the traffic in the left lane, but the left laners try there best to get as close as possible to the car in front, they keep slamming on there brakes when they get to close, then the car behind brakes even harder which in turn causes a traffic jam. It is impossible for merge in turn to work when drivers in the left lane tailgate.
Carryfast:
But the best legislation that they could make in this case would be to put out no overtaking signs and wicket signs long before the lane closures then everyone could get in the correct lane long before the point where everyone has to merge at crawling speed because the lot in the closed lane have run out of road.
Anyone then holding up the traffic by trying to merge too late should face a charge of failure to comply with road signs.
You still don’t get it do you?
The drivers on the left have to allow overtaking drivers on the right to merge at any point before the closure, even if they THINK the drivers on the right are very naughty by using all the road.
Merging works UNTIL the drivers on the left refuse to leave gaps.
But the difference if it’s done early is that the drivers on the left won’t have to slow down as much to allow the traffic,that’s been overtaking them,to merge if that merging is done far enough before the closure for the traffic on the right not to have to slow down as it would do when it’s left it so late that if it does’nt slow up it’ll run out of road.
This was covered earlier, but if you are all good boys & girls and pull in at 800 metres, that means you are wasting 800 metres of perfectly good and useable carriageway.
That’s exactly the same logic that the numpty mondeo driver who’s using lane 4 of the M25 at 60 mph or less when he should be in lane 1.
But Germany yeah right unlimited section of autobahn and advanced warning of lane closures consisting of a picture of an idiot with a shovel at 1.5 km and a wicket sign at 800 metres.
bubsy06:
the drivers in the left lane don’t seem to leave a gap to let anyone in, no wonder people have to go right up to the cones If people left a safe gap between them and the car infront then overtaking cars would be able to pull in and adjust there speed to that of the traffic in the left lane, but the left laners try there best to get as close as possible to the car in front, they keep slamming on there brakes when they get to close, then the car behind brakes even harder which in turn causes a traffic jam. It is impossible for merge in turn to work when drivers in the left lane tailgate.
You have hit the nail on the head there - the vast majority of motorway traffic follows too closely and this is the root of the problem.
Carryfast:
But the best legislation that they could make in this case would be to put out no overtaking signs and wicket signs long before the lane closures then everyone could get in the correct lane long before the point where everyone has to merge at crawling speed because the lot in the closed lane have run out of road.
Anyone then holding up the traffic by trying to merge too late should face a charge of failure to comply with road signs.
You still don’t get it do you?
The drivers on the left have to allow overtaking drivers on the right to merge at any point before the closure, even if they THINK the drivers on the right are very naughty by using all the road.
Merging works UNTIL the drivers on the left refuse to leave gaps.
But the difference if it’s done early is that the drivers on the left won’t have to slow down as much to allow the traffic,that’s been overtaking them,to merge if that merging is done far enough before the closure for the traffic on the right not to have to slow down as it would do when it’s left it so late that if it does’nt slow up it’ll run out of road.
This was covered earlier, but if you are all good boys & girls and pull in at 800 metres, that means you are wasting 800 metres of perfectly good and useable carriageway.
It is simple if there is a moving line of traffic 400 yards long and every vehicle lets one vehicle into a gap, the traffic keeps moving without much problem.
Forget Germany, the general speed limit is 81mph and unrestricted parts are still restricted by lorries and 2 lane motorways. Also the limits in towns and villages are much lower but car speed is for another forum.
German roadworks are generally segregated by lorries in the right hand lane and cars in the narrower left lanes
Carryfast:
But the best legislation that they could make in this case would be to put out no overtaking signs and wicket signs long before the lane closures then everyone could get in the correct lane long before the point where everyone has to merge at crawling speed because the lot in the closed lane have run out of road.
Anyone then holding up the traffic by trying to merge too late should face a charge of failure to comply with road signs.
You still don’t get it do you?
The drivers on the left have to allow overtaking drivers on the right to merge at any point before the closure, even if they THINK the drivers on the right are very naughty by using all the road.
Merging works UNTIL the drivers on the left refuse to leave gaps.
But the difference if it’s done early is that the drivers on the left won’t have to slow down as much to allow the traffic,that’s been overtaking them,to merge if that merging is done far enough before the closure for the traffic on the right not to have to slow down as it would do when it’s left it so late that if it does’nt slow up it’ll run out of road.
This was covered earlier, but if you are all good boys & girls and pull in at 800 metres, that means you are wasting 800 metres of perfectly good and useable carriageway.
It is simple if there is a moving line of traffic 400 yards long and every vehicle lets one vehicle into a gap, the traffic keeps moving without much problem.
Forget Germany, the general speed limit is 81mph and unrestricted parts are still restricted by lorries and 2 lane motorways. Also the limits in towns and villages are much lower but car speed is for another forum.
German roadworks are generally segregated by lorries in the right hand lane and cars in the narrower left lanes
Solution highlighted for carryfast (and others).
Not for me.That idea in reality just results in ‘a crawling line’ of traffic 400 yds long to start with often increasing to more than a mile depending on how much traffic is using the road.It’s not an issue of every vehicle letting one vehicle in it’s an issue of how fast both lanes of traffic can be running while it’s doing it and you’re not going to be able to do that at a decent speed a few hundred yds,or less,from the cones without the traffic in the closed lane/s running out of road.
Carryfast:
Not for me.That idea in reality just results in ‘a crawling line’ of traffic 400 yds long to start with often increasing to more than a mile depending on how much traffic is using the road.It’s not an issue of every vehicle letting one vehicle in it’s an issue of how fast both lanes of traffic can be running while it’s doing it and you’re not going to be able to do that at a decent speed a few hundred yds,or less,from the cones without the traffic in the closed lane/s running out of road.
Well if you didnt tailgate in the left lane then the vehicles in the closed lanes would’nt run out of road would they? the only reason vehicles go right up to the cones and force there way in is because they cant get into the left lane earlier. If the traffic in lane 1 is running at 55-60 mph and leaving a 2 second gap then the traffic in lane 2 can travel at 60-70mph, overtake the slower traffic in lane 1 and pull in to one of the 2 second gaps 600yd, 400yd or even 200yd before the cones, because they dont’t leave gaps there is nowhere to go.
bubsy06:
the drivers in the left lane don’t seem to leave a gap to let anyone in, no wonder people have to go right up to the cones If people left a safe gap between them and the car infront then overtaking cars would be able to pull in and adjust there speed to that of the traffic in the left lane, but the left laners try there best to get as close as possible to the car in front, they keep slamming on there brakes when they get to close, then the car behind brakes even harder which in turn causes a traffic jam. It is impossible for merge in turn to work when drivers in the left lane tailgate.
You have hit the nail on the head there - the vast majority of motorway traffic follows too closely and this is the root of the problem.
It’s more a case of zb driving standards in which too many drivers don’t hold a set speed and in which most drivers don’t maintain seperation distances under varying speed conditions and there’s not enough speed differential between overtaking traffic and traffic being overtaken.So the whole process of overtaking and returning to the inside lane takes too long and trying to merge traffic too close to lane closures just makes that situation even worse because it slows down the overtaking traffic even more because if not they’d run out of road.
Carryfast:
Not for me.That idea in reality just results in ‘a crawling line’ of traffic 400 yds long to start with often increasing to more than a mile depending on how much traffic is using the road.It’s not an issue of every vehicle letting one vehicle in it’s an issue of how fast both lanes of traffic can be running while it’s doing it and you’re not going to be able to do that at a decent speed a few hundred yds,or less,from the cones without the traffic in the closed lane/s running out of road.
Well if you didnt tailgate in the left lane then the vehicles in the closed lanes would’nt run out of road would they? the only reason vehicles go right up to the cones and force there way in is because they cant get into the left lane earlier. If the traffic in lane 1 is running at 55-60 mph and leaving a 2 second gap then the traffic in lane 2 can travel at 60-70mph, overtake the slower traffic in lane 1 and pull in to one of the 2 second gaps 600yd, 400yd or even 200yd before the cones, because they dont’t leave gaps there is nowhere to go.
If you’ve read my posts you’d know I never tailgate or I’d be dead by now or inside for killing someone else on the road in a shunt.
So next time you meet a lane closure try merging safely at 70 mph 200 yds from the cones but don’t blame me when you run out of road before you’ve managed to change lanes.
By the way it was’nt uncommon for us to actually be driving trucks at around 60-70 mph before speed limiters came in and it’s obvious you’ve never driven a loaded truck at those types of speeds approaching a lane closure because if you’d have left it until 200 yds before trying to merge at that speed they’d have given you a job with a shovel digging in them afterwards.
Carryfast:
If you’ve read my posts you’d know I never tailgate or I’d be dead by now or inside for killing someone else on the road in a shunt.
So next time you meet a lane closure try merging safely at 70 mph 200 yds from the cones but don’t blame me when you run out of road before you’ve managed to change lanes.
By the way it was’nt uncommon for us to actually be driving trucks at around 60-70 mph before speed limiters came in and it’s obvious you’ve never driven a loaded truck at those types of speeds approaching a lane closure because if you’d have left it until 200 yds before trying to merge at that speed they’d have given you a job with a shovel digging in them afterwards.
Well I would be able to merge safely if there was a gap to merge into but there never is
you obviously can’t understand my logic.
You think its better to merge before the 800yards right?
that is possible because people have not started to bunch up to prevent people merging, when the 800yds sign comes up drivers start to bunch up because they don’t want people stealing that precious bit of road space between them and the vehicle in front, now because overtaking vehicles can’t merge because there are no gaps they end up having to stop at the cones.
And if you had’nt noticed I am speaking as if I was in a car not a truck, did’nt the 60-70mph bit give it away?
What I do is approach the cones slowly so as to nudge them out the way with out scratching the truck, then I drive down the closed lane, dodging the workers of course. A real time saver.
switchlogic:
What I do is approach the cones slowly so as to nudge them out the way with out scratching the truck, then I drive down the closed lane, dodging the shirkers of course. A real time saver.
switchlogic:
What I do is approach the cones slowly so as to nudge them out the way with out scratching the truck, then I drive down the closed lane, dodging the workers of course. A real time saver.
When did you ever see any workers at these places (video proof required).
Carryfast:
But the difference if it’s done early is that the drivers on the left won’t have to slow down as much,if at all, to allow the traffic,that’s been overtaking them,to merge if that merging is done far enough before the closure for the traffic on the right not to have to slow down as it would do when it’s left it so late that if it does’nt slow up it’ll run out of road.
What do you suggest people do to make everything flow so effortlessly when the queue is well back from any visible lane closure signs? And I mean under our current way of signing these things and nothing to do with how it is supposedly done on the mainland or how you think the signs should be at roadworks.
Monday night, M1, 800 yard markers out, all running fine and everyone moving over, 600, 400, 200yards… 1 van left in the middle lane. The lads are just setting the cones out still and are now frantically waving for this one particular van to move over, now he just missed one of them and nearly got a cone thrown through his windscreen for his efforts, when he pulls over just to avoid the cone. Any idea’s what it said on the back of his van? ‘MOTORWAY MAINTENANCE!!!’
Carryfast:
If you’ve read my posts you’d know I never tailgate or I’d be dead by now or inside for killing someone else on the road in a shunt.
So next time you meet a lane closure try merging safely at 70 mph 200 yds from the cones but don’t blame me when you run out of road before you’ve managed to change lanes.
By the way it was’nt uncommon for us to actually be driving trucks at around 60-70 mph before speed limiters came in and it’s obvious you’ve never driven a loaded truck at those types of speeds approaching a lane closure because if you’d have left it until 200 yds before trying to merge at that speed they’d have given you a job with a shovel digging in them afterwards.
Well I would be able to merge safely if there was a gap to merge into but there never is
you obviously can’t understand my logic.
You think its better to merge before the 800yards right?
that is possible because people have not started to bunch up to prevent people merging, when the 800yds sign comes up drivers start to bunch up because they don’t want people stealing that precious bit of road space between them and the vehicle in front, now because overtaking vehicles can’t merge because there are no gaps they end up having to stop at the cones.
And if you had’nt noticed I am speaking as if I was in a car not a truck, did’nt the 60-70mph bit give it away?
You’re right I can’t understand your logic because it is’nt logical.
The reason why there’s more bunching closer to the cones than further away from them is because as I’ve said more than enough times the speeds of the traffic remaining in the closed lanes has to get lower the closer it gets or it’ll run out of road.
It’s that speed reduction,and zb all to do with your unfounded complaints directed at the traffic in the open lanes,which causes all the traffic in all the lanes to reduce speed at an ever increasing rate to let all those idiots (and those who are’nt idiots but who’ve been caught out by the stupid road signing which only informs them which lane/s is/are closing when it’s too late) who’ve left it too late in the closed lanes,merge at a slow enough speed to prevent them running out of road.
But you obviously did’nt notice that I’m speaking as if I was driving a truck in the good old days before limiters and under those conditions you would have understood why it’s much better,and faster,to get the merging done as soon as possible instead of leaving it until the last 200,or even 800 yds.
But it’s not surprising that you’re speaking as if you are driving a car not a truck because in those days most,if not all,truck drivers would be able to understand my ideas,and the complaints which we made were mostly all directed at stupid car driving zb’s who left it until the last minute to merge at lane closures considering the speeds which we were running at and allowing for the road space and seperation distances required without some idiot car driving zb trying to merge into the side of the trailer and then find the idiot enough room by backing off to let him in before he ran out of road.
The conclusion seems to be that todays truck drivers are mostly a lot of (not very good) car drivers with the same ideas as those car drivers who we’d have viewed as numpties back then.That’s probably why today’s trucks are just dumbed down synchro or auto box speed limited things made to suit dumbed down drivers.
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