There is a queue before a dualcarriageway lane closure. For whatever reason, everyone has gone into the left lane at the first advance warning sign, lets say 3miles out. The queue is moving very slowly (20mph-ish) but there is nothing in the right lane, nothing at all. You can see this as the road is dead straight.
Would you immediately join the queue?
There’s a lot less chance that the traffic will be travelling at less than the posted limit through the roadworks if everyone has merged a long way back so there just ain’t much of a likelyhood of finding yourself running up to a line of traffic running at 20 ish in the open lane under those conditions.Unlike the situation whereby someone has started a number 2 situation off by running down that (closed ahead) lane with nothing on it.
Carryfast:
You’re right I can’t understand your logic because it is’nt logical.
The reason why there’s more bunching closer to the cones than further away from them is because as I’ve said more than enough times the speeds of the traffic remaining in the closed lanes has to get lower the closer it gets or it’ll run out of road.
It’s that speed reduction,and zb all to do with your unfounded complaints directed at the traffic in the open lanes,which causes all the traffic in all the lanes to reduce speed at an ever increasing rate to let all those idiots (and those who are’nt idiots but who’ve been caught out by the stupid road signing which only informs them which lane/s is/are closing when it’s too late) who’ve left it too late in the closed lanes,merge at a slow enough speed to prevent them running out of road.
But you obviously did’nt notice that I’m speaking as if I was driving a truck in the good old days before limiters and under those conditions you would have understood why it’s much better,and faster,to get the merging done as soon as possible instead of leaving it until the last 200,or even 800 yds.
But it’s not surprising that you’re speaking as if you are driving a car not a truck because in those days most,if not all,truck drivers would be able to understand my ideas,and the complaints which we made were mostly all directed at stupid car driving zb’s who left it until the last minute to merge at lane closures considering the speeds which we were running at and allowing for the road space and seperation distances required without some idiot car driving zb trying to merge into the side of the trailer and then find the idiot enough room by backing off to let him in before he ran out of road.
The conclusion seems to be that todays truck drivers are mostly a lot of (not very good) car drivers with the same ideas as those car drivers who we’d have viewed as numpties back then.That’s probably why today’s trucks are just dumbed down synchro or auto box speed limited things made to suit dumbed down drivers.
What causes me to slow down to avoid hitting the cones? Obviously there is something preventing me from merging into the open lane, what is that?
If you’re merging close to the cones you’ll have to slow down at an increasing rate the closer you get or you’ll simply run out of road.To allow you to merge there needs to be a speed differential between the overtaking vehicle and the one being overtaken but that speed differential gets less as the overtaking vehicle slows down.Which means that the vehicle being overtaken has to also slow down at an even greater rate than the one overtaking to allow the overtaking vehicle to merge safely with a decent seperation distance.It’s that slowing down of the vehicle being overtaken in the open lane that causes the start of the number 2 situation.
Carryfast:
If you’re merging close to the cones you’ll have to slow down at an increasing rate the closer you get or you’ll simply run out of road.To allow you to merge there needs to be a speed differential between the overtaking vehicle and the one being overtaken but that speed differential gets less as the overtaking vehicle slows down.Which means that the vehicle being overtaken has to also slow down at an even greater rate than the one overtaking to allow the overtaking vehicle to merge safely with a decent seperation distance.It’s that slowing down of the vehicle being overtaken in the open lane that causes the start of the number 2 situation.
Thanks for finally seeing my point.
If they left a suitable gap then there would be no need for the vehicle being overtaken to slam on the anchors to create a gap. If the vehicles in lane 1 are doing 40mph and leave a 2-3 car gap between them an the car in front then I am able to overtake at 60mph and when I feel the time is right I will slow down to match the speed of the vehicles in lane 1 and merge in causing hardly any disruption to the vehicles in lane 1, its similar to joining lane 1 of a motorway from a sliproad. If I cant find a gap to merge into I have to slow right down and wait for a kind and considerate driver to slow down and let me in, this then causes the vehicle behind to slow even more and the vehicle behind even more and so on.
The proof of what worked can be seen by the traffic that is now in the roadworks
If the traffic that is going through the roadworks is flowing freely without massive gaps between vehicles then what ever happened prior to entering the roadworks - WORKED
Carryfast:
If you’re merging close to the cones you’ll have to slow down at an increasing rate the closer you get or you’ll simply run out of road.To allow you to merge there needs to be a speed differential between the overtaking vehicle and the one being overtaken but that speed differential gets less as the overtaking vehicle slows down.Which means that the vehicle being overtaken has to also slow down at an even greater rate than the one overtaking to allow the overtaking vehicle to merge safely with a decent seperation distance.It’s that slowing down of the vehicle being overtaken in the open lane that causes the start of the number 2 situation.
Thanks for finally seeing my point.
If they left a suitable gap then there would be no need for the vehicle being overtaken to slam on the anchors to create a gap. If the vehicles in lane 1 are doing 40mph and leave a 2-3 car gap between them an the car in front then I am able to overtake at 60mph and when I feel the time is right I will slow down to match the speed of the vehicles in lane 1 and merge in causing hardly any disruption to the vehicles in lane 1, its similar to joining lane 1 of a motorway from a sliproad. If I cant find a gap to merge into I have to slow right down and wait for a kind and considerate driver to slow down and let me in, this then causes the vehicle behind to slow even more and the vehicle behind even more and so on.
I think it’s not a case of me seeing your point you’ve actually just proved mine with all that bs.So your idea is to run up to within 200 yds of a lane closure at 60 mph then slow down to 40 mph then carry out the observation required before changing lanes and then merge into a 3 car length gap all done before you run into the cones.
Now supposing that the traffic on the inside lane is travelling at 50 mph and there’s a load of traffic in front of you all trying to do the same thing and what would that 3 car gap be when (if) you do manage to merge into that gap before you run out of road or tail end the idiot in front of you trying to do the same thing .
Just hope you never try the same thing driving an artic trying to merge although if you’re lucky it would be have been me driving on the inside lane and I’d have left a much bigger gap than 3 car lengths because I’d consider that gap as tailgating anyway and I just know that someone will try to do exactly that idea which you’ve put there.But if you were trying to merge at an entry slip you’d have also found that a lot easier if there’s considerate drivers like me who’d have moved over into lane 2 long before the entry slip even though that would,of course,leave the inside lane empty for at least 800 yds or more.
Carryfast:
I think it’s not a case of me seeing your point you’ve actually just proved mine with all that bs.So your idea is to run up to within 200 yds of a lane closure at 60 mph then slow down to 40 mph then carry out the observation required before changing lanes and then merge into a 3 car length gap all done before you run into the cones.
Now supposing that the traffic on the inside lane is travelling at 50 mph and there’s a load of traffic in front of you all trying to do the same thing and what would that 3 car gap be when (if) you do manage to merge into that gap before you run out of road or tail end the idiot in front of you trying to do the same thing .
Just hope you never try the same thing driving an artic trying to merge although if you’re lucky it would be have been me driving on the inside lane and I’d have left a much bigger gap than 3 car lengths because I’d consider that gap as tailgating anyway and I just know that someone will try to do exactly that idea which you’ve put there.But if you were trying to merge at an entry slip you’d have also found that a lot easier if there’s considerate drivers like me who’d have moved over into lane 2 long before the entry slip even though that would,of course,leave the inside lane empty for at least 800 yds or more.
Ok I give up, your obviously think your idea is the best, i suggest you inform the DFT and all the other countries of your more efficient way. I will expect to see the removal of the 800yd 600yd 400yd 200yd and merge in turn signs from our roads. Good luck
Went through the roadworks on the A55 yesterday and today. Yesterday very little traffic, no line of slow vehicles in lane 1 and everyone in one lane by about 300 metres and it flowed quickly and smoothly through the restriction at the posted speed limit.
Today was much more fun. I approached the roadworks and the traffic in lane 1 was backing up 1000 - 1200 yards before the closure and had slowed to around 15 mph with lane 2 almost empty. I wasn’t going to crawl along with over half a mile of empty, usable, lane beside me so before reaching the rear of the line of traffic in lane 1 I indicated to move to lane 2. A colourful, sign-written car a little way behind me in lane 2 flashed me out and I moved over. I continued down lane 2, checking the various gaps in lane 1 and deciding which one to make use of when near the 400 yard marker a blue Iveco Daily van puled out of lane 2, enough so I couldn’t pass and had to come to a stop as I reached him. At this point the colourful, sign-written car behind me gave a blast of it’s siren and the Iveco driver nearly jumped out of his window. The siren made me jump as I wasn’t expecting it but not as much as the van driver who shot back into lane 1. I continued and merged into a nice gap with about 100 yards to go before the merge point. In my mirror I could see the Heddelu car alongside the Iveco van for a few seconds then he pulled in front of him and other vehicles which had been behind the police car continued and merged into various gaps. We all moved easily through the roadworks and after we cleared the restriction I saw in my mirrors the lights come on on the cop car and they pulled the van over.
I guess that is one SARP who has lost his warrant card.
ROG:
The proof of what worked can be seen by the traffic that is now in the roadworks
If the traffic that is going through the roadworks is flowing freely without massive gaps between vehicles then what ever happened prior to entering the roadworks - WORKED
Its always going to flow freely once its down to one lane, you could have sheep running about on the carriageway before the lane closure, once the cars are past them its fine.
hammer:
‘…There is a queue before a dual carriageway lane closure … everyone has gone into the left lane at the first advance warning sign … The queue is moving … slowly … nothing in the right lane … Would you immediately join the queue…?’
No. Whether in the car or pulling a 13m trailer I’d use lane two. I’d not hare along it like a ■■■■■■ on Red Bull (that’s ripping the pee) and I’d restrain my progress in a low gear: The key word being ‘progress’. Although I’d probably notice many tight-lipped Meldrews tightly hugging the bumper in front I would understand their anxiety at my action since they’d possibly be ringing my Head Office as a disgusted customer when they get home
I’d stop short of the first cone (about three vehicle lengths?) and like my actions to be interpreted as ‘…hey, I didn’t take the pee, gis a break …’
Snudger:
All those people in lane 1 are blocking half the road for half a mile unnecessarily.
It’s quite simple really as ROG stated in post #6: scenario 2, this is a case where both lanes should be used to their utmost; in fact I would probably have gone a bit further in the outer lane than the videoing driver. If people want to queue though then it’s their choice.
However, if and when the traffic is cruising along at 40 in lane 1 prior to the roadworks then the situation should switch to scenario 1 (use one lane only to avoid merging right near the bottleneck) whereby if you are overtaking then you would be breaking the law anyway (exceeding the speed limit) and will probably have to brake sharply when you reach the inevitable slowing down through the actual bottleneck. You should thus merge sooner, as by even doing only 40 in the outer lane the road will rapidly run out as the cones approach. Surely the max speed limit is fast enough? I bet you who have to travel through there at busy times would love it if only all could and did do 40 in only 1 lane.
On a similar note, I find it only a mild annoyance when people stick to and block the left-hand lane when they want to go straight on when approaching e.g. a junction where I want to turn left when there are other lanes completely empty that they could have used thus saving both of us a bit of time. Their mentality is the same sort as the queuers above I believe.
please stop driving ASAP.
you are a disaster waiting to happen.
How about introducing a sign announcing ‘ZIP MERGE HERE’ - with an arrow indicating the merge point. I recall that such a system worked well in Germany: It had a great sign too. Road bullies and poofs should be identified by whoever it is that does that job this week and beaten or given compensation accordingly
The current ‘Please Merge’ signs are too noncey & passive: They’re too vague and too often pathetically sited about half a mile from an optimum merging point. There is no value in any road sign asking ‘please’ - it’s either a command or it aint.
That might work better and help chill us out since it would reduce both choice and myriad other responses beloved of the average motorist. They range from the cocksure through to those that are scared of driving and those either too clueless or baffled at what to do ‘for the best’ in the absence of clarity.
It might demonstrate engagement with a national transport need and help extinguish the unhealthy rage of those seemingly inclined to fume at inept actions of others.
It wont happen though because the national priorities are to bomb foreigners and organise money to Europe ahead of niff-naff on the homefront.
Snudger:
All those people in lane 1 are blocking half the road for half a mile unnecessarily.
It’s quite simple really as ROG stated in post #6: scenario 2, this is a case where both lanes should be used to their utmost; in fact I would probably have gone a bit further in the outer lane than the videoing driver. If people want to queue though then it’s their choice.
However, if and when the traffic is cruising along at 40 in lane 1 prior to the roadworks then the situation should switch to scenario 1 (use one lane only to avoid merging right near the bottleneck) whereby if you are overtaking then you would be breaking the law anyway (exceeding the speed limit) and will probably have to brake sharply when you reach the inevitable slowing down through the actual bottleneck. You should thus merge sooner, as by even doing only 40 in the outer lane the road will rapidly run out as the cones approach. Surely the max speed limit is fast enough? I bet you who have to travel through there at busy times would love it if only all could and did do 40 in only 1 lane.
On a similar note, I find it only a mild annoyance when people stick to and block the left-hand lane when they want to go straight on when approaching e.g. a junction where I want to turn left when there are other lanes completely empty that they could have used thus saving both of us a bit of time. Their mentality is the same sort as the queuers above I believe.
please stop driving ASAP.
you are a disaster waiting to happen.
What! Why? I am always willing to improve but I really don’t understand what you find wrong with the above statement. Seriously, please explain.
Also what is anyone’s experience of the removal of the bus lane from the M4 approaching London (I’m assuming this has happened as I thankfully haven’t been that way for a while)? This is a similar lane-reducing scenario but I bet the only effect is to move the end of the queue a bit closer to London - increasing the pressure at the bottleneck - and hold up more coaches and taxis.
There is a queue before a dualcarriageway lane closure. For whatever reason, everyone has gone into the left lane at the first advance warning sign, lets say 3miles out. The queue is moving very slowly (20mph-ish) but there is nothing in the right lane, nothing at all. You can see this as the road is dead straight.
Would you immediately join the queue?
There’s a lot less chance that the traffic will be travelling at less than the posted limit through the roadworks if everyone has merged a long way back so there just ain’t much of a likelyhood of finding yourself running up to a line of traffic running at 20 ish in the open lane under those conditions.Unlike the situation whereby someone has started a number 2 situation off by running down that (closed ahead) lane with nothing on it.
Am I missing something??. Are they saying everyone stay in two lanes till the cones then merge. In that case all the vehicles they have just roared past would in fact be front of them, holding them up and preventing them from getting to the front. Always thought the vehicle stopping anyone going up the outside was doing it to allow the buildup at the cones in front to clear. This then allows the traffic in the nearside to start increasing speed which should make gaps to allow offside traffic to merge easier. Unfortunately traffic entering the roadworks don`t increase speed to the limit to help clear the backlog but drags along holding back those still to enter the works.
ddrbsn:
Am I missing something??. … Always thought the vehicle stopping anyone going up the outside was doing it to allow the buildup at the cones in front to clear.
You are missing something… the ‘merge point’ is now placed further back from the cones by the lane blocker so all the lane blocker has achieved is to selfishly stop others from proceeding passed them into a legally usable piece of road
The lane blocker may also have helped those in front of them but certainly has not made the situation behind them any easier and has extended the length of the queue
ddrbsn:
Am I missing something??. Are they saying everyone stay in two lanes till the cones then merge. In that case all the vehicles they have just roared past would in fact be front of them, holding them up and preventing them from getting to the front. Always thought the vehicle stopping anyone going up the outside was doing it to allow the buildup at the cones in front to clear. This then allows the traffic in the nearside to start increasing speed which should make gaps to allow offside traffic to merge easier. Unfortunately traffic entering the roadworks don`t increase speed to the limit to help clear the backlog but drags along holding back those still to enter the works.
ddrbsn:
Am I missing something??. Are they saying everyone stay in two lanes till the cones then merge. In that case all the vehicles they have just roared past would in fact be front of them, holding them up and preventing them from getting to the front. Always thought the vehicle stopping anyone going up the outside was doing it to allow the buildup at the cones in front to clear. This then allows the traffic in the nearside to start increasing speed which should make gaps to allow offside traffic to merge easier. Unfortunately traffic entering the roadworks don`t increase speed to the limit to help clear the backlog but drags along holding back those still to enter the works.
ddrbsn:
Am I missing something??. Are they saying everyone stay in two lanes till the cones then merge. In that case all the vehicles they have just roared past would in fact be front of them, holding them up and preventing them from getting to the front. Always thought the vehicle stopping anyone going up the outside was doing it to allow the buildup at the cones in front to clear. This then allows the traffic in the nearside to start increasing speed which should make gaps to allow offside traffic to merge easier. Unfortunately traffic entering the roadworks don`t increase speed to the limit to help clear the backlog but drags along holding back those still to enter the works.
Round and round and round we go…
Only until we grind to a halt because some ■■■■ has blocked the lane.
Coffeeholic:
‘… we grind to a halt because some ■■■■ has blocked the lane…’
Maybe voters should ask candidates at election time ‘why is it that pro-EU politicians ignore basic domestic issues negatively affecting tax-paying Britons?’
.
