Juddian:
These things go in cycles, agency might be on an upper cycle at the moment but given the hysteria in the media about the alleged driver shortage you can bet your last quid that soon enough they’ll be letting immigrants with HGV’s back in, then the cycle will turn again.
Good luck to anyone making hay while the sun shines, if i’m wrong and this carries on i might just jump on board meself next year, semi retire and milk the weekend plunder, but summat tells me by next year fings will have changed.
Following on from that, suggest anyone negotiating pay deals for full timers this year do the very best you can to get a decent increase while t’managment is worried about fulfilling contracts and/or losing drivers.
Let’s hope you are not as unpopular for doing that - as I became. Otherwise, good luck to ya.
Yorkshire Tramper:
Daf245:
If you are given a 90 day notice on employment contract, you either sign or have dismissed youreself.
It really boils down to what your contract states, now I am no employment lawyer but have the knowledge of my own circumstance and contract. My employer cannot alter my terms and conditions or alter my wages without my consent or by paying me compensation. Our union would have a field day if they did and certainly would not be sacking me by my refusing to sign an agreement to lower my wages.
There’s nothing to stop a firm “Blanking you” if you insist on getting your full contract’s worth at any time…
They won’t put anything in writing to you, as they know it may well be used by yourself against them in the future.
Winseer:
There’s nothing to stop a firm “Blanking you” if you insist on getting your full contract’s worth at any time…
They won’t put anything in writing to you, as they know it may well be used by yourself against them in the future.
It is called a Union that will stop that sort of behavior. I understand what you are saying with regards to some contracts but ours has it written in that neither party cannot alter the pay or T&Cs for the duration of the contract. Other contracts may well not have this in place. Ours has a Union garauntee and as I stated I cannot comment on others personal contracts. It all depends upon the contract agreed and wether or not it is a collective unionised contract like ours is.
Yorkshire Tramper:
DCPCFML:
I was coming from the agency driver angle rather than the permie driver angle.
I am uncertain on how an agency driver stands on this. if it is written into your contract that they may change your T&Cs and pay and I suspect that would be pretty standard with any agency contract, zero hour contracts the norm there.
I assume they could do whatever they like within reason, but a good perm contract will have written into it that it cannot be altered by either the driver or the employer for the duration of the contract. Unless you both agree.
With 99% of agencies you don’t get a perm contract in terms of work provision. You get offered the work at x rate, take it or leave it. £10/hr would be scoffed at by a native Brit, but a Filipino would jump at it. It’s pretty easy to see how quickly the rates would tumble when you suddenly get an influx of cheap labour and agencies are in competition with each other. 
I actually think that much of the farming out of the transport side of businesses to logistics.com was because they too saw a way of getting rid of all the gold-plated contracts at the chemical companies and supermarkets and make bank by employing cheap foreign labour to do it for half the price. I’ve no doubt the supermarkets and chemical cos. were enjoying their new, cheap transport contracts, but looks like it might have backfired on them now that the logistics.com workforce have all gone back to Latvia and Romania. 
Taking of unions being there to save the day. Remind me how it’s going for Suttons and British Sugar after their “victory win” in February 2018 ?
Yorkshire Tramper:
Daf245:
If you are given a 90 day notice on employment contract, you either sign or have dismissed youreself.
It really boils down to what your contract states, now I am no employment lawyer but have the knowledge of my own circumstance and contract. My employer cannot alter my terms and conditions or alter my wages without my consent or by paying me compensation. Our union would have a field day if they did and certainly would not be sacking me by my refusing to sign an agreement to lower my wages.
A 90 day notice is as it sounds, to alter terms conditions and working routine.
Sign or sack youreself
Not rocket science is as it says 90 days
An it’s 90 days sign or gone.
DCPCFML:
Taking of unions being there to save the day. Remind me how it’s going for Suttons and British Sugar after their “victory win” in February 2018 ?
You might quote the coal miners too… Suttons drivers unfortunately backed down but that was a completely different kettle of fish. Most of their contracts had come to an end. they were having to accept/negotiate new contracts as everyone does. The management was not doing it mid contract.
Yorkshire Tramper:
DCPCFML:
Taking of unions being there to save the day. Remind me how it’s going for Suttons and British Sugar after their “victory win” in February 2018 ?
You might quote the coal miners too… Suttons drivers unfortunately backed down but that was a completely different kettle of fish. Most of their contracts had come to an end. they were having to accept/negotiate new contracts as everyone does. The management was not doing it mid contract.
Are there actually drivers still in Union s
Amazing
Daf245:
A 90 day notice is as it sounds, to alter terms conditions and working routine.
Sign or sack youreself
Not rocket science is as it says 90 days
You’re right there, it isn’t rocket science. No 90 days consent is written into my contract to state that they can alter anything? Mine is a Union collective contract. T&Cs and wages cannot be lowered within the contract length. No ifs or buts.
DCPCFML:
With 99% of agencies you don’t get a perm contract in terms of work provision. You get offered the work at x rate, take it or leave it. £10/hr would be scoffed at by a native Brit, but a Filipino would jump at it. It’s pretty easy to see how quickly the rates would tumble when you suddenly get an influx of cheap labour and agencies are in competition with each other.
I think the current Government are fully aware of the fact that they are only in power (and the 2016 referendum produced a Brexit result) because the electorate were fed up with having their wages driven downwards by cheap imported labour. Flooding the labour market with even cheaper Filipino labour would not be a vote winner.
Daf245:
Are there actually drivers still in Union s
Amazing
I feel you state this with tongue in cheek mate, however yes there are still Unions out there that drivers belong to. I would state that they are definately becoming rarer but this is mainly due to a combination of the standard of drivers we currently have and a bit of drivers losing hope and faith in the Unions. However I will say this, a union strong driver team is a ■■■■ site better than any none union driver team by getting better T&Cs than their counterpart. This may be an age thing on my behalf and my faith in the union, a newer driver may not have this faith or believes they are worthwhile. who knows, I feel better for being in a union. Right or wrong that is my personal belief.
Yorkshire Tramper:
Winseer:
There’s nothing to stop a firm “Blanking you” if you insist on getting your full contract’s worth at any time…
They won’t put anything in writing to you, as they know it may well be used by yourself against them in the future.
It is called a Union that will stop that sort of behavior. I understand what you are saying with regards to some contracts but ours has it written in that neither party cannot alter the pay or T&Cs for the duration of the contract. Other contracts may well not have this in place. Ours has a Union garauntee and as I stated I cannot comment on others personal contracts. It all depends upon the contract agreed and wether or not it is a collective unionised contract like ours is.
I think all contracts have that basic caveat. The “Blanking” is the get-around.
If the firm knows it’s bang out of order, then it’ll continuously make sure there is no evidence of it that could be used in a legal case, and you won’t even receive things like texts calling you to a job, knowing you’re illegal if you take it… You’ll be phoned by someone else, in case the call gets recorded, and the “Message” will be implied rather than direct. This used to be called “Shifty Behaviour”, but I understand it has been the “Norm” for some time now.
Gazumping - is a prime example of what can be achieved, when “exchanged contracts” gets ridden roughshod over.
I understand that Gazumping - is making a very strong come-back this year, so the ‘shifty contract circumventor’ - is alive and well, clearly. 
Yorkshire Tramper:
Daf245:
Are there actually drivers still in Union s
Amazing
I feel you state this with tongue in cheek mate, however yes there are still Unions out there that drivers belong to. I would state that they are definately becoming rarer but this is mainly due to a combination of the standard of drivers we currently have and a bit of drivers losing hope and faith in the Unions. However I will say this, a union strong driver team is a ■■■■ site better than any none union driver team by getting better T&Cs than their counterpart. This may be an age thing on my behalf and my faith in the union, a newer driver may not have this faith or believes they are worthwhile. who knows, I feel better for being in a union. Right or wrong that is my personal belief.
I had faith in Unions - until the one I left - backstabbed me as I was leaving it… I didn’t find out until some time later, however.
How the devil can I be told “Have you any idea how unpopular you are here?” by some Foreigner whom I’d not met back in the day, talking as if he worked there 10 years previous, rather than myself? FFS why can’t people be judged upon what one sees, rather than what one hears of others third-party?
Imagine a utopia where you can tell someone to like someone they don’t know, and be obeyed, rather than be told bad stuff, and be even believed, which appears all-too-easy the norm, nowadays alas…
“Reputation Proceeds You” aka “Infamy” used to be a concept reserved for Enemies in Wartime, Criminals in Peacetime, and Strangers who’d actually done questionable deeds in both War and Peace…
Winseer:
I think all contracts have that basic caveat. The “Blanking” is the get-around.
If the firm knows it’s bang out of order, then it’ll continuously make sure there is no evidence of it that could be used in a legal case, and you won’t even receive things like texts calling you to a job, knowing you’re illegal if you take it… You’ll be phoned by someone else, in case the call gets recorded, and the “Message” will be implied rather than direct. This used to be called “Shifty Behaviour”, but I understand it has been the “Norm” for some time now.
Gazumping - is a prime example of what can be achieved, when “exchanged contracts” gets ridden roughshod over.
I understand that Gazumping - is making a very strong come-back this year, so the ‘shifty contract circumventor’ - is alive and well, clearly.
Well not doubting you here bud but I havent come accross this type of behaviour for some time now. I am sure it does go on but I have not experienced it. Doesn’t really come into our type of work as we have our work planned for the week in advance and I wouldn’t know if the firm was blanking me or not as I don’t hear from them until I get my next weeks rota each Friday, basically left to it all week from there on. If you have or are experincing this type of behavior then I would be looking elsewhere well before they did this to me, Some good companies do still exist, maybe I am lucky or maybe I only look at work from decent firms but they do exist.
Yorkshire Tramper:
Daf245:
Are there actually drivers still in Union s
Amazing
I feel you state this with tongue in cheek mate, however yes there are still Unions out there that drivers belong to. I would state that they are definately becoming rarer but this is mainly due to a combination of the standard of drivers we currently have and a bit of drivers losing hope and faith in the Unions. However I will say this, a union strong driver team is a ■■■■ site better than any none union driver team by getting better T&Cs than their counterpart. This may be an age thing on my behalf and my faith in the union, a newer driver may not have this faith or believes they are worthwhile. who knows, I feel better for being in a union. Right or wrong that is my personal belief.
100%.
Been in the union for donkeys years and will remain so till i finsih working, proper terms and conditions at places with decent recognised union collective bargaining in place.
The secret is the selection of shop stewards, arguably the most important decision for a typical union member.
Decent stewards know that a company has to remain profitable, and sensible union members make sure they give some value for money for the good jobs they have…without fail the people who usually take the ■■■■ out of the sick scheme or otherwise take the ■■■■ out of the agreement are the non union members, invariably the first to milk the benefits negotiated for them by the members and the first to complain the pay increase they trousered wasn’t good enough 
Yorkshire Tramper:
Winseer:
I think all contracts have that basic caveat. The “Blanking” is the get-around.
If the firm knows it’s bang out of order, then it’ll continuously make sure there is no evidence of it that could be used in a legal case, and you won’t even receive things like texts calling you to a job, knowing you’re illegal if you take it… You’ll be phoned by someone else, in case the call gets recorded, and the “Message” will be implied rather than direct. This used to be called “Shifty Behaviour”, but I understand it has been the “Norm” for some time now.
Gazumping - is a prime example of what can be achieved, when “exchanged contracts” gets ridden roughshod over.
I understand that Gazumping - is making a very strong come-back this year, so the ‘shifty contract circumventor’ - is alive and well, clearly.
Well not doubting you here bud but I havent come accross this type of behaviour for some time now. I am sure it does go on but I have not experienced it. Doesn’t really come into our type of work as we have our work planned for the week in advance and I wouldn’t know if the firm was blanking me or not as I don’t hear from them until I get my next weeks rota each Friday, basically left to it all week from there on. If you have or are experincing this type of behavior then I would be looking elsewhere well before they did this to me, Some good companies do still exist, maybe I am lucky or maybe I only look at work from decent firms but they do exist.
I left the CWU in 2010, and didn’t find out until 2014 that every effort would be made to try and prevent me coming back there on agency, despite everyone else being allowed back after a two year absence… I could only get in as a sub at first (no parity pay), and then not until 2017 via the main staffing agency Manpower. All rules and regulations - are agreed between Union and Management, so nothing like that can happen - unless the rules permit the get-around to treat some better or worse than others…
Gt Bear Pt Sunlight have just given their drivers 12.3% pay rise and o/t changed to time and a half
Winseer:
I had faith in Unions - until the one I left - backstabbed me as I was leaving it… I didn’t find out until some time later, however.
How the devil can I be told “Have you any idea how unpopular you are here?” by some Foreigner whom I’d not met back in the day, talking as if he worked there 10 years previous, rather than myself? FFS why can’t people be judged upon what one sees, rather than what one hears of others third-party?
Unfortunately this is all too common nowadays, I put it down to todays calliber of drivers, how easily people are swayed and simply how little time anyone seems to have for one another, Tell tale ■■■ springs to mind along with people bringing others down in order to make themselves look better (in their own heads that is)
Juddian:
100%.
Been in the union for donkeys years and will remain so till i finsih working, proper terms and conditions at places with decent recognised union collective bargaining in place.
The secret is the selection of shop stewards, arguably the most important decision for a typical union member.
Decent stewards know that a company has to remain profitable, and sensible union members make sure they give some value for money for the good jobs they have…without fail the people who usually take the ■■■■ out of the sick scheme or otherwise take the ■■■■ out of the agreement are the non union members, invariably the first to milk the benefits negotiated for them by the members and the first to complain the pay increase they trousered wasn’t good enough
100% spot on again clown, unsure of your age etc, but I am suspecting that you are old school like myself. A union is as strong as it’s members, if the shop steward is good at his elected role and the drivers have a backbone then the union is strong and along comes the decent contracts. A weak shop steward and spineless drivers equates to a managements dream and a watered down union along with negotiating a bad contract.
scannyman142:
Gt Bear Pt Sunlight have just given their drivers 12.3% pay rise and o/t changed to time and a half
They won’t be doing that out of the goodness of their hearts, they are obviously haemorrhaging drivers and/or are unable to recruit new drivers. Of course, their local competition have no choice but to retaliate in kind. I’ve been in the game for over 35 years and I have never seen pay increases like I am seeing now.
In a way it’s a bit of a shame that I am out tossing the Summer off on my narrowboat instead of driving a truck but I’m sure things will only become more extreme in the run-up to Christmas when I traditionally go back to work. 
scannyman142:
Gt Bear Pt Sunlight have just given their drivers 12.3% pay rise and o/t changed to time and a half
That O/T is good, we couldn’t get past time and a quarter but we did negotiate a much better tax free night out allowance above what the norm is. We get it tax free and the company swallows the taxation part themselves. All happy with the outcome as it does increase your wages. I have never put my night out allowance in with my wages as it isn’t realistically part of wages, however the deal we got it actually does increase our wages.