Drove to Cherbourg for a crossing to the UK, normally use Brittany / Truckline to Poole but for some reason it was fully booked and my place had been double booked.
No Problems, I had enough time to ship over and park up.
Wrong. My double booking caused me to have to use P&O to Portsmouth.
Because I had started at 06.30 it gave me until 21.30 but I had also had a long break of over 6 hours which then gives me a 16 hour spread.
When I drove off the ship in Portsmouth it was 22.20 at the waterguard and passport control, so I have to drive round and find a parking place.
The Security wave me forward and tell me to drive out of the port, Because my time is up at 22.30 I refuse so his mate gives me a piece of paper stamped and signed by Harbour Commisioners and Department Of Transport. saying I can drive for 1 Hour to find suitable parking.
I drove up to Sutton Scotney and parked at 23.10. Nearly 17 Hours spread. Im not convinced that this letter is the way forward for the greed of the Harbour Board and ferry companies to fail to provide parking. It happened at Dover and Ashford is the first parking place.
I’ve got no idea really how you would stand legally, but it seems that they are doing there best to give you cover for moving over your legal time. After all, it is normally considered acceptable to drive over your time (in certain circumstances) and write the reason on the back of your card. They seem to be witnessing the circumstances where you are forced to drive over your time.
They’ve been doing that for some time. Last time I shipped back that way was in '97 and the same thing happened. I guess it all depends how stubborn the ministry man is as to whether you could get nicked for driving up the road. They could argue that you should have known beforehand that there was no parking in the port, but likewise if you don’t do that crossing normally there’s no way that you could have.
If the paper is stamped DoT I guess it should ultimately be okay as it sounds pretty official. At least you’ll know for next time
I have shipped in to Dover, and been turned away from the truckstop (when there was one) by the Police. I was told “go to Ashford”.
When I said I was out of hours, and asked the policeman to sign my tacho to confirm he wanted me to drive on, he laughed, and said (in a genuine and friendly way) “Look, you dont need that. Im telling you that you can drive to Ashford”
I took it that Kent Police would not take action for an hours offence if I was stopped. That they took a pragmatic view of the problem. So I think you would be OK.
Having said that, it`s not really acceptable that there is such limited parking at British ports. But then, as we all know, truck driving is a fantastic job, until the moment your front wheels touch British soil…
I have kept a copy of the letter, and handed one in with my cards. The problem with the parking is the same all over in the UK. The problem is though is if you stop in France or Belgium for a break, you have the addittional problem of unwanted hitchhikers and the problem of two partly wasted days.
There is a note on the back of this letter saying that if you are short of hours you should take a daily rest period before booking on a ferry. In an Ideal world, I suppose that is good advice.
It does certainly make the Dover, Folkstone route a bit more flexible with the choice of first come first served
you should still write on the reverse side of the tachograph chart what happened, i always do.
the letter only really covers you on the day and time in question, afterwards if the ministry (vosa) do a check at your base they may pick up on the extra driving or duty time and they always turn the chart over to see if there is an explanation on the reverse.
if there is they generally just drop back into place and ignore it.
The “one hour” will refer to the time allowed in EC3820 to find parking after making a ferry movement. A ferry movement relates to when you board a ferry or train, you can at this point start your daily rest period as long as you have access to a couchette (this is covered by those cahairs on ferries that you can snooze on), when you disembark you are allowed a maximum of one hour after completing customs formalities, to travel to a parking area, you must however extend your daily rest period by 2 hours. IE you needed an 8; if you got 2 on the boat you would need another 6 but you must extend this by 2 so you would still need 8.
Only a policeman can instruct you to break EC regs therefore I assume this piece of paper is only telling of your legal right to make a ferry movement and is legally worthless.
Also you must remember that the regs may be disregarded if for safety of the vehicle, its load, any person on the vehicle, or any other person; therefore if you cant find anywhere to park it safely you can carry on until you do, however the problem must be “unforseen”, in my opinion not being able to park at an International ferry port may well be “unforseen” unless you are using the same excuse every week.
I once was held up on a ferry crossing to Dover, disembarking 18 hours into a shift, then forced to take first available parking, which turned out to be on the bay at Iceland in Enfield, stopped there 13 hours! I believe this was legal.
julian:
when you disembark you are allowed a maximum of one hour after completing customs formalities, to travel to a parking area,
Not quite the one hour includes the time taken to do customs formalities, it’s not extra to it. The actual wording is
Any interruption in rest must be as short as possible and no more than 1 hour before or after getting on or off, including any customs formalities.
I also believe that you cannot use an 8 hour rest period in this way, only a 9 or an 11. An 8 hour rest is already a split rest because you must have had at least 4 hours during the day, in one or two periods of not less than 1 hour, and this would be splitting it again so wouldn’t be allowed. The rules on splitting rest for a ferry or train allow only for ONE split to the rest period.
Yes, one split, but the different articles in the regs can be looked at seperately. IE I believe that if you can legally do an 8 (due to adequate rest period in the day (N.B. This rule disapears under the white paper which is likely to introduce the new regs early next year)) then you can do a (single) ferry movement on this 8 hr rest period. I am not aware of it not being allowed.
Remember the case of article 6 which soley for the purposes of that article, redefines the definition of a “week”.
I shall have to pull out my law books but everything is everywhere after my move into a house.
Also, on the text you supplied concerning customs formalities, it is not made clear from the grammar wether the customs formalities are to be included in the “getting off” or not, ie not clear wether you have an hour after touching land or an hour after completing customs. The law should be precise, if the area is grey it is to be used by those who interpret it, to our advantage.
Traffic Examiners are generally of low education and are afraid to touch anything too technical.
I remember reading a while ago in one of the truck magazines where someone had asked about splitting the eight hour rest period for a movement on or off the ferry and their legal expert said that because the eight hour rest is a split rest, it has already been split once or twice depending on how the four hours had been taken during the day, then it couldn’t be split again. The law on allowing an interrupted rest with regards to ferries is clear that only one interruption is allowed and as the rest for that day, which is in fact a twelve hour rest period, has already been interrupted at least once then it can’t be used.
I don’t think there is any grey area regarding the issue of whether customs etc is included or not in the time allowed, it quite clearly says one hour including any customs formalities. For example if you board the ferry and begin your rest period, and have say 4 hours on board, as soon as you move the vehicle to disembark you have interrupted the rest period and the time starts from then. So from that time you have a maximum of one hour to complete all customs formalities etc and be parked up again to take the remaining seven or nine hours needed, depending on whether you are splitting a nine or an eleven.
I thought there was a rule that you can only interrupt rest to get on/off the ferry if the crossing was at least 4hrs?
Splitting hairs, you must be doing “other work” as soon as you’re called from the passenger deck to the vehicle deck. And you might sit on the vehicle deck for quite a while?
So, doing the Calais/Dover crossing, is it realistic to start a rest period, get on the boat, and get off again, and interrupt a daily rest? When you get off the boat, where can you go? Ashford? I was told of a truck stop on top of the hill at Dover going out to the M2, but I’ve also been told this has closed? Is this the Dover truck stop everyone talks about?
I’ve started to adopt the line that if I can’t park safely/securely, then I keep going until I can at an MSA or recognised truck stop, loaded or empty. Do you think this is acceptable/wrong?
Its only when you reach check-in that you know what boat you’re going on. If its “reasonably” later than timetable, is that then classed as unforeseen?
spaceman:
I thought there was a rule that you can only interrupt rest to get on/off the ferry if the crossing was at least 4hrs?
No amount of time is specified.
spaceman:
Splitting hairs, you must be doing “other work” as soon as you’re called from the passenger deck to the vehicle deck. And you might sit on the vehicle deck for quite a while?
And that would be classed as part of your allowed maximum of one hour so you could be left with very little time to get anywhere.
spaceman:
So, doing the Calais/Dover crossing, is it realistic to start a rest period, get on the boat, and get off again, and interrupt a daily rest?
No because the regulations state that you must have access to a bunk or a couchette for both parts of the rest and you don’t get that on the Dover/Calais crossing. A couchette is defined as a bed in a train or on a boat which can either be folded away or used as an ordinary seat during the day so sleepimg in a chair or sprawled across the bench seats on a Dover/Calais ferry wouldn’t count. Those chairs that recline a little wouldn’t count as a couchette.
spaceman:
I’ve started to adopt the line that if I can’t park safely/securely, then I keep going until I can at an MSA or recognised truck stop, loaded or empty. Do you think this is acceptable/wrong?
Difficult one that, if it is being done on odd occasions, and you are writing the reason for going over time on the back of the disc, VOSA would take a different approach than if it was being done more regularly. Either way I think VOSA would investigate further before deciding on any action.
spaceman:
Its only when you reach check-in that you know what boat you’re going on. If its “reasonably” later than timetable, is that then classed as unforeseen?
I would say that as you have an option of deciding not to book on at that point, and pulling out and parking, then that wouldn’t be unforseen. If however you have booked on and are in the lanes and the ferry is delayed I would say that would be unforseen. I’ve done that on several occasions when I have arrived in Calais and found on arriving at the booth to book on that there is a delay of a couple or three hours and I pull out and park on the beach then ship over in the morning. I prefer doing it taht way and getting a decent uniterrupted rest.
I was going to say “comprehensive”, but you’ve missed one! The Dover truck stop - is this the place on the A2 (turn left at the lights)? I’ve got a secret paring space on one of the Dover industrial estates. Funny lot in Dover, but the place I go has overnight security, and I even get the guard to put the camera on me! Naturally, no facilities whatsoever, but its quite handy.
Re sleeping on the boat - unless its freight only, or its really rough, theres just too many excited youngsters (and OAP’s) to get any kip anyway!
I didn’t mention that bit because I have no idea, I haven’t parked in Dover overnight for years, at least since customs clearances finished in the Eastern Docks. There was a truck stop up there somewhere and I read that it had closed recently so I guess that could be the one you mean.
Re dozing on the boat, it’s getting to that time of year when the ferries are much quieter so it is a little easier to catch a short nap. The fact that there is more chance of it being rough as well brings two benefits, one it stops people running about so much and two, it gives an opportunity to play the ‘Which Passenger Will Be Sick First’ game. That always helps pass the time and if there are two or three of you crossing together you can introduce betting as well.
I overheard some drivers playing that game, which included loitering in the toilets and discussing the meal they’d just scoffed in the routemaster! I didn’t join in — it was the roughest one I’ve been on — Cap came on the tanoy and said it had gone to Force 10. I thought I’d better see how my sea legs were — would be embarrassing to take the michael, only to join the hollering throng minutes later! Pleased to say my sea legs stood the test — even after 3 courses!
Going back to the original point, I remember reading, about 2 or 3 years ago, and I think in T&D that, due to the absence of parking at Portsmouth, VOSA had given a blanket dispensation to allow drivers to continue to Portsmouth Truck Stop.
You can find directions, telephone number, and details of facilities here.
spaceman:
I overheard some drivers playing that game, which included loitering in the toilets and discussing the meal they’d just scoffed in the routemaster! I didn’t join in — it was the roughest one I’ve been on — Cap came on the tanoy and said it had gone to Force 10. I thought I’d better see how my sea legs were — would be embarrassing to take the michael, only to join the hollering throng minutes later! Pleased to say my sea legs stood the test — even after 3 courses!
We usually ban any kind of cheating or inducing people to be ill after a colleague of mine pretended to vomit into a sick bag, that he had pre loaded with fruit cocktail from the driver’s restaurant. He then proceeded to eat the contents of the bag with a spoon he produced from his pocket. That sort of caused a mini stampede in the direction of the toilets and gave him an unfair advantage in winning the game.
